(07-01-2019 07:34 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  What’s the deal with the Bill Dazzle name?
He’s pretentious … lacks trash-talking game
His posting style … too nice
And that junk won’t suffice
To this board, his contributions — lame

I think limericks may be the best way to end a long pointless discussion on an silly premise descending into unimaginative name calling.

There once was a poster named HighScore
Whose limerick's lines numbered four
While some would applaud,
I found it quite odd,

(07-01-2019 06:41 PM)TheBigEastSucks Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 06:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 05:07 PM)TheBigEastSucks Wrote:  UC hasn’t done anything in football?
They literally just finished in the top 25 final polls last year with 11 wins.

You think squeaking in to the top 25 one time in six years of AAC football is accomplishing something?

You can call it what you want but that is just an ignorant statement.

You seem to have very little knowledge of what constitutes a significant achievement in football.

Cincy has been in the AAC for six seasons, and has finished in the top 25 one time, squeaking in at #24 because other teams lost bowl games while they eeked by a 6-6 team by three points. Massey Composite says they were the #31 team last year, so the pollsters cut them a break. Their only bowl win in six seasons.

I like Cincy, and hope they have another good season this year. But their past history in the AAC is mediocre at best.

(07-02-2019 08:03 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 06:41 PM)TheBigEastSucks Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 06:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 05:07 PM)TheBigEastSucks Wrote:  UC hasn’t done anything in football?
They literally just finished in the top 25 final polls last year with 11 wins.

You think squeaking in to the top 25 one time in six years of AAC football is accomplishing something?

You can call it what you want but that is just an ignorant statement.

You seem to have very little knowledge of what constitutes a significant achievement in football.

Cincy has been in the AAC for six seasons, and has finished in the top 25 one time, squeaking in at #24 because other teams lost bowl games while they eeked by a 6-6 team by three points. Massey Composite says they were the #31 team last year, so the pollsters cut them a break. Their only bowl win in six seasons.

I like Cincy, and hope they have another good season this year. But their past history in the AAC is mediocre at best.

They won 9 games their first two seasons in the American and had a share of a conference title in 2014, so thats pretty decent, but they definitely stunk it up in Tubberville's last two seasons. However, for Fickell to get them to 11 wins in his second season there with a freshman QB and sophomore RB, and a young team overall, that says a lot. Their outlook for the next two seasons should as high as anyone in the American. At a minimum they should be the favorites to win the East division next season.

(07-02-2019 08:16 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(07-02-2019 08:03 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 06:41 PM)TheBigEastSucks Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 06:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 05:07 PM)TheBigEastSucks Wrote:  UC hasn’t done anything in football?
They literally just finished in the top 25 final polls last year with 11 wins.

You think squeaking in to the top 25 one time in six years of AAC football is accomplishing something?

You can call it what you want but that is just an ignorant statement.

You seem to have very little knowledge of what constitutes a significant achievement in football.

Cincy has been in the AAC for six seasons, and has finished in the top 25 one time, squeaking in at #24 because other teams lost bowl games while they eeked by a 6-6 team by three points. Massey Composite says they were the #31 team last year, so the pollsters cut them a break. Their only bowl win in six seasons.

I like Cincy, and hope they have another good season this year. But their past history in the AAC is mediocre at best.

They won 9 games their first two seasons in the American and had a share of a conference title in 2014, so thats pretty decent, but they definitely stunk it up in Tubberville's last two seasons. However, for Fickell to get them to 11 wins in his second season there with a freshman QB and sophomore RB, and a young team overall, that says a lot. Their outlook for the next two seasons should as high as anyone in the American. At a minimum they should be the favorites to win the East division next season.

Ridder had a heck of year for a Freshman QB. Warren was a beast at RB. Our probable best RB Doaks missed the entire season with an injury. RB Tavion Thomas, offers from Alabama, OSU, Oklahoma, Georgia, LSU, Michigan etc., got limited carries. McClelland is our 3rd down back home run hitter. We are loaded at RB.

There's a lot of programs that would love to be as "mediocre" as UC has been. 12 bowl games in the past 16 seasons with 6 conference titles, along with 5-6 Top 25 finishes. The Tuberville hire was a huge mistake (made by Virginia Tech's current AD Whit Babcock). Babcock should have gone with the up and comers that was the blue print for success at UC: Mark Dantonio, Brian Kelly, Butch Jones and now Luke Fickell.

(07-02-2019 08:29 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  There's a lot of programs that would love to be as "mediocre" as UC has been. 12 bowl games in the past 16 seasons with 6 conference titles, along with 5-6 Top 25 finishes. The Tuberville hire was a huge mistake (made by Virginia Tech's current AD Whit Babcock). Babcock should have gone with the up and comers that was the blue print for success at UC: Mark Dantonio, Brian Kelly, Butch Jones and now Luke Fickell.

Cincy did have quite a bit of success - in the Big East. They won two Big East championships, went to two BCS bowls, and won four bowl games.

In the AAC, they have seen nothing like that: Zero division championships, and one bowl win over just about the worst possible opponent and by the barest margin. Someone said they "shared" the 2014 AAC championship, but I looked that up and it was a 3-way tie with UCF and Memphis, and by tie-breakers Cincy would have lost, as they lost to Memphis and didn't play UCF.

The come-down from the Big East has been pretty dramatic, there's no denying that. Anyone who says that the AAC has been good for Cincy football just hasn't been paying attention.

(07-02-2019 11:57 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-02-2019 08:29 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  There's a lot of programs that would love to be as "mediocre" as UC has been. 12 bowl games in the past 16 seasons with 6 conference titles, along with 5-6 Top 25 finishes. The Tuberville hire was a huge mistake (made by Virginia Tech's current AD Whit Babcock). Babcock should have gone with the up and comers that was the blue print for success at UC: Mark Dantonio, Brian Kelly, Butch Jones and now Luke Fickell.

Cincy did have quite a bit of success - in the Big East. They won two Big East championships, went to two BCS bowls, and won four bowl games.

In the AAC, they have seen nothing like that: Zero division championships, and one bowl win over just about the worst possible opponent and by the barest margin. Someone said they "shared" the 2014 AAC championship, but I looked that up and it was a 3-way tie with UCF and Memphis, and by tie-breakers Cincy would have lost, as they lost to Memphis and didn't play UCF.

The come-down from the Big East has been pretty dramatic, there's no denying that. Anyone who says that the AAC has been good for Cincy football just hasn't been paying attention.

You're acting like the conference change happened in a vaccuum. Cincy also made a horrible coaching hire at the exact same time.

You may as well blame SMU's conference change for its horrible run of football in the 1990s. You know, and forget the fact that they had the death penalty for two years in the late 80s.

The proof that it was a coaching problem is that the next coach (Luke Fickell) immediately got recruiting back to the level it had been when UC was in the Big East (actually it's slightly better). And by Year 2 he had UC back to the level of success it had in the best days of the Big East.

More evidence that it was a coaching problem is that fellow demotee USF (who you should be familiar with) has had more success in the AAC than it did in the Big East.

(07-02-2019 08:03 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 06:41 PM)TheBigEastSucks Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 06:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-01-2019 05:07 PM)TheBigEastSucks Wrote:  UC hasn’t done anything in football?
They literally just finished in the top 25 final polls last year with 11 wins.

You think squeaking in to the top 25 one time in six years of AAC football is accomplishing something?

You can call it what you want but that is just an ignorant statement.

You seem to have very little knowledge of what constitutes a significant achievement in football.

Cincy has been in the AAC for six seasons, and has finished in the top 25 one time, squeaking in at #24 because other teams lost bowl games while they eeked by a 6-6 team by three points. Massey Composite says they were the #31 team last year, so the pollsters cut them a break. Their only bowl win in six seasons.

I like Cincy, and hope they have another good season this year. But their past history in the AAC is mediocre at best.

If only they could match the success of Georgetown or USF football, that is the true measuring stick in big time football. Let’s look at Georgetown basketball since UC left the big east. By your same measuring stick they should drop basketball down to d2 and have been complete failure.

(07-02-2019 12:12 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(07-02-2019 11:57 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-02-2019 08:29 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  There's a lot of programs that would love to be as "mediocre" as UC has been. 12 bowl games in the past 16 seasons with 6 conference titles, along with 5-6 Top 25 finishes. The Tuberville hire was a huge mistake (made by Virginia Tech's current AD Whit Babcock). Babcock should have gone with the up and comers that was the blue print for success at UC: Mark Dantonio, Brian Kelly, Butch Jones and now Luke Fickell.

Cincy did have quite a bit of success - in the Big East. They won two Big East championships, went to two BCS bowls, and won four bowl games.

In the AAC, they have seen nothing like that: Zero division championships, and one bowl win over just about the worst possible opponent and by the barest margin. Someone said they "shared" the 2014 AAC championship, but I looked that up and it was a 3-way tie with UCF and Memphis, and by tie-breakers Cincy would have lost, as they lost to Memphis and didn't play UCF.

The come-down from the Big East has been pretty dramatic, there's no denying that. Anyone who says that the AAC has been good for Cincy football just hasn't been paying attention.

You're acting like the conference change happened in a vaccuum. Cincy also made a horrible coaching hire at the exact same time.

You may as well blame SMU's conference change for its horrible run of football in the 1990s. You know, and forget the fact that they had the death penalty for two years in the late 80s.

The proof that it was a coaching problem is that the next coach (Luke Fickell) immediately got recruiting back to the level it had been when UC was in the Big East (actually it's slightly better). And by Year 2 he had UC back to the level of success it had in the best days of the Big East.

More evidence that it was a coaching problem is that fellow demotee USF (who you should be familiar with) has had more success in the AAC than it did in the Big East.

The coaching hire didn't happen in a vacuum either - when TT was hired, it was clear the Big East wasn't going to rmeain AQ, which surely reduced interest among good candidates. Any way you slice it though, Cincy has been auch worse.

As for USF, i would say our success level in the AAC has been about the same as in the Big East.

There has to be more than a common interest and competency in one major sport to sustain a conference. Ideally, an affiliation would also comprise a group of like-minded peer institutions which share a distinct geography. Though its basketball history and aspirations align with those of other NBE members and the school is situated within the existing footprint, UConn is a cultural outlier -- a public state flagship in a flotilla of small, private, and largely catholic universities.

UConn was in bed with many of those schools before and chose divorce. It'll be interesting to see how a second marriage to the same partners works out.

Cincinnati is an even bigger public research university. There's no way it would or should be aligned with the NBE. We'll continue, however, to enjoy the annual Crosstown Shootout or whatever it's called.

(07-02-2019 02:43 PM)colohank Wrote:  There has to be more than a common interest and competency in one major sport to sustain a conference. Ideally, an affiliation would also comprise a group of like-minded peer institutions which share a distinct geography. Though its basketball history and aspirations align with those of other NBE members and the school is situated within the existing footprint, UConn is a cultural outlier -- a public state flagship in a flotilla of small, private, and largely catholic universities.

UConn was in bed with many of those schools before and chose divorce. It'll be interesting to see how a second marriage to the same partners works out.

Cincinnati is an even bigger public research university. There's no way it would or should be aligned with the NBE. We'll continue, however, to enjoy the annual Crosstown Shootout or whatever it's called.

UConn did not leave the basketball schools; the C7 decided to leave the football schools, then purchased the Big East name and branding. UConn remained in what was, legally, Big East Football.

UConn, by itself, is a cultural outlier no matter conference it ultimately belongs to (BE/AAC/B1G/ACC/etc.); it is not really in the same grouping at Syracuse/BC/Rutgers only because those institutions have had D1/FBS football for a significantly longer duration of time. The interesting thing about institutional-fit for UConn is there are very few institutions like it. It has a $450 million endowment with 30,000 students and a top-60 national ranking. In the B1G, they would be the second smallest university, only to Northwestern (a private school). They would have, by a substantial margin, the lowest endowment in the entire league (where all the B1G schools have endowments in the billions). If you look at the ACC, they would also have the smallest endowment by a significant margin. Since there are a number of private institutions in the ACC, their enrollment numbers would actually be very similar. But, again, their football program lacks history, sustained success and the football-block (Clemson, FSU, Miami, VT, etc.) would most definitely have blocked them long-term. The fact that they have little-to-no football history is another huge barrier. If you look within the American, many of the schools are metropolitan universities, with a mixture of private/public schools with one lone additional Northeast institution (Temple). Regionally and endowment-wise, the University of Delaware has double the endowment that UConn has, and even the University of Vermont has a greater endowment (but, both schools have fewer students). Both schools are also also top-100 national universities - but neither have the brand or reputation that UConn does.

In the Big East, UConn now belongs to the top non-football conference in the country, which much better aligns with the long-term goals and objectives of its athletic department, and shares membership with a number of geographic and historical rivals. Additionally, much like the C7, UConn now gets to control its own destiny and future with athletics, not letting other conferences and institutions dictate its direction.

UConn may not be a Private school, but it is very much a like-minded fit within the Big East (and a much better fit than it was in the American); it is basketball-focused, with a strong NE presence and was a founding member of the league 40 years ago (as a non-football member).

(07-02-2019 03:10 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(07-02-2019 02:43 PM)colohank Wrote:  There has to be more than a common interest and competency in one major sport to sustain a conference. Ideally, an affiliation would also comprise a group of like-minded peer institutions which share a distinct geography. Though its basketball history and aspirations align with those of other NBE members and the school is situated within the existing footprint, UConn is a cultural outlier -- a public state flagship in a flotilla of small, private, and largely catholic universities.

UConn was in bed with many of those schools before and chose divorce. It'll be interesting to see how a second marriage to the same partners works out.

Cincinnati is an even bigger public research university. There's no way it would or should be aligned with the NBE. We'll continue, however, to enjoy the annual Crosstown Shootout or whatever it's called.

UConn did not leave the basketball schools; the C7 decided to leave the football schools, then purchased the Big East name and branding. UConn remained in what was, legally, Big East Football.

UConn, by itself, is a cultural outlier no matter conference it ultimately belongs to (BE/AAC/B1G/ACC/etc.); it is not really in the same grouping at Syracuse/BC/Rutgers only because those institutions have had D1/FBS football for a significantly longer duration of time. The interesting thing about institutional-fit for UConn is there are very few institutions like it. It has a $450 million endowment with 30,000 students and a top-60 national ranking. In the B1G, they would be the second smallest university, only to Northwestern (a private school). They would have, by a substantial margin, the lowest endowment in the entire league (where all the B1G schools have endowments in the billions). If you look at the ACC, they would also have the smallest endowment by a significant margin. Since there are a number of private institutions in the ACC, their enrollment numbers would actually be very similar. But, again, their football program lacks history, sustained success and the football-block (Clemson, FSU, Miami, VT, etc.) would most definitely have blocked them long-term. The fact that they have little-to-no football history is another huge barrier. If you look within the American, many of the schools are metropolitan universities, with a mixture of private/public schools with one lone additional Northeast institution (Temple). Regionally and endowment-wise, the University of Delaware has double the endowment that UConn has, and even the University of Vermont has a greater endowment (but, both schools have fewer students). Both schools are also also top-100 national universities - but neither have the brand or reputation that UConn does.

In the Big East, UConn now belongs to the top non-football conference in the country, which much better aligns with the long-term goals and objectives of its athletic department, and shares membership with a number of geographic and historical rivals. Additionally, much like the C7, UConn now gets to control its own destiny and future with athletics, not letting other conferences and institutions dictate its direction.

UConn may not be a Private school, but it is very much a like-minded fit within the Big East (and a much better fit than it was in the American); it is basketball-focused, with a strong NE presence and was a founding member of the league 40 years ago (as a non-football member).

An extremely well-thought and written post. I agree with about 95 percent of this. And rarely do I agree to that extent with a post of this number of points. Well done, GW11.

But this line made me take pause:

"UConn now belongs to the top non-football conference in the country."

How does one define "top non-football conference"?

I would think that many folks who know their stuff might contend the Big West is every bit as "top non-football league" as the Big East. The Big West offers significant baseball, Olympic sports, academic prestige, enrollments and endowments.

I'm not suggesting the Big West IS the "top non-football conference" in the nation. But I will not let my bias toward the Big East (which I am biased toward and admit) blind me to the noteworthy elements of the Big West.

You are known to be a bit overly pro-Big East so I have to note this. Having said this, you do a fine job of giving other leagues credit and you might appreciate my respect for Marquette. But I call it like it is and try to do so respectfully. Your one comment seemed a bit excessive.

But, again, a well made post overall. And I'm with you.

(07-02-2019 03:10 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  UConn may not be a Private school, but it is very much a like-minded fit within the Big East (and a much better fit than it was in the American); it is basketball-focused, with a strong NE presence and was a founding member of the league 40 years ago (as a non-football member).

You are right. UConn simply could not compete in football in the American. No history. Plus a big recruiting disadvantage going against schools across the south from Texas to Florida to Tennessee to North Carolina, etc.

And if it can't compete in football in the American, it stood no chance in the Big 10 or ACC.

UConn football was a terrible fit in the American. The American gets better by their departure even if it stays at 11.

As for basketball, the American did not hold UConn back one iota. UConn had every chance to dominate the American like it did the old Big East. That it failed to do so is an indictment of their coaching search to replace Calhoun.

In other words, while the Big East is better fit for UConn basketball, the American wasn't a bad fit for UConn basketball like it was for UConn football.

I think UConn's basketball is on the come up under Hurley, and the Big East move will energize their fan base. However, it is wholly unclear to me whether UConn will have significantly more basketball success in the Big East than they enjoyed in the American.

(07-02-2019 02:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-02-2019 12:12 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(07-02-2019 11:57 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-02-2019 08:29 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  There's a lot of programs that would love to be as "mediocre" as UC has been. 12 bowl games in the past 16 seasons with 6 conference titles, along with 5-6 Top 25 finishes. The Tuberville hire was a huge mistake (made by Virginia Tech's current AD Whit Babcock). Babcock should have gone with the up and comers that was the blue print for success at UC: Mark Dantonio, Brian Kelly, Butch Jones and now Luke Fickell.

Cincy did have quite a bit of success - in the Big East. They won two Big East championships, went to two BCS bowls, and won four bowl games.

In the AAC, they have seen nothing like that: Zero division championships, and one bowl win over just about the worst possible opponent and by the barest margin. Someone said they "shared" the 2014 AAC championship, but I looked that up and it was a 3-way tie with UCF and Memphis, and by tie-breakers Cincy would have lost, as they lost to Memphis and didn't play UCF.

The come-down from the Big East has been pretty dramatic, there's no denying that. Anyone who says that the AAC has been good for Cincy football just hasn't been paying attention.

You're acting like the conference change happened in a vaccuum. Cincy also made a horrible coaching hire at the exact same time.

You may as well blame SMU's conference change for its horrible run of football in the 1990s. You know, and forget the fact that they had the death penalty for two years in the late 80s.

The proof that it was a coaching problem is that the next coach (Luke Fickell) immediately got recruiting back to the level it had been when UC was in the Big East (actually it's slightly better). And by Year 2 he had UC back to the level of success it had in the best days of the Big East.

More evidence that it was a coaching problem is that fellow demotee USF (who you should be familiar with) has had more success in the AAC than it did in the Big East.

The coaching hire didn't happen in a vacuum either - when TT was hired, it was clear the Big East wasn't going to rmeain AQ, which surely reduced interest among good candidates. Any way you slice it though, Cincy has been auch worse.

As for USF, i would say our success level in the AAC has been about the same as in the Big East.

I think what you are missing here is UC's program is completely different from what it was prior to the buildup that started when they joined CUSA.

25 years ago they were a lot like UMass or Akron in FB, it was a financial non factor for them. UC was even dropped briefly to FCS in the early 80's as part of the NCAA reorganization.

Today they definitely look the part facility wise and financially of a top tier G5 football program that is a legitimate P5 candidate. The swoon in success under Tuberville didn't damage the program enough to change its overall trajectory against all the upgrades and improvements made through the years.

From this big picture vantagepoint they really haven't lost the ground that you are claiming (though it may seem they've slipped a little from where they were under Kelly on the field).

(07-02-2019 09:00 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(07-02-2019 03:10 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  UConn may not be a Private school, but it is very much a like-minded fit within the Big East (and a much better fit than it was in the American); it is basketball-focused, with a strong NE presence and was a founding member of the league 40 years ago (as a non-football member).

You are right. UConn simply could not compete in football in the American. No history. Plus a big recruiting disadvantage going against schools across the south from Texas to Florida to Tennessee to North Carolina, etc.

And if it can't compete in football in the American, it stood no chance in the Big 10 or ACC.

UConn football was a terrible fit in the American. The American gets better by their departure even if it stays at 11.

As for basketball, the American did not hold UConn back one iota. UConn had every chance to dominate the American like it did the old Big East. That it failed to do so is an indictment of their coaching search to replace Calhoun.

In other words, while the Big East is better fit for UConn basketball, the American wasn't a bad fit for UConn basketball like it was for UConn football.

I think UConn's basketball is on the come up under Hurley, and the Big East move will energize their fan base. However, it is wholly unclear to me whether UConn will have significantly more basketball success in the Big East than they enjoyed in the American.

UConn probably suffered from bad coaching in football as well. Randy Edsall had them relatively competitive in the Big East, which was a better football conference.

And UConn football wasn't exempt from some of the regional issues with the American in football that it did in basketball. Games against Syracuse, Rutgers, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, and Virginia Tech were regional games against big time programs that got taken away. I'm sure that wasnt a helpful change

As to TT at Cincinnati it was a big time hire when made with the idea of making the splash for joining a P5 conference.

Plenty of other qualified candidates I'm sure would have lined up for TT's large salary.

Also when the AAC was first formed it did have a BCS autobid for one year and there was a thought that they would be a true challenger conference that could place a team into CFP. We learned after a few years all the committee cares about is best schedule so the G5 is screwed. At the time of the TT hire it was yet uncharted territory as to how the new system was going to play out.

It wasn't the diminutive hire that Quo is trying to make it out to be by any means.

(07-02-2019 08:16 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(07-02-2019 03:10 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(07-02-2019 02:43 PM)colohank Wrote:  There has to be more than a common interest and competency in one major sport to sustain a conference. Ideally, an affiliation would also comprise a group of like-minded peer institutions which share a distinct geography. Though its basketball history and aspirations align with those of other NBE members and the school is situated within the existing footprint, UConn is a cultural outlier -- a public state flagship in a flotilla of small, private, and largely catholic universities.

UConn was in bed with many of those schools before and chose divorce. It'll be interesting to see how a second marriage to the same partners works out.

Cincinnati is an even bigger public research university. There's no way it would or should be aligned with the NBE. We'll continue, however, to enjoy the annual Crosstown Shootout or whatever it's called.

UConn did not leave the basketball schools; the C7 decided to leave the football schools, then purchased the Big East name and branding. UConn remained in what was, legally, Big East Football.

UConn, by itself, is a cultural outlier no matter conference it ultimately belongs to (BE/AAC/B1G/ACC/etc.); it is not really in the same grouping at Syracuse/BC/Rutgers only because those institutions have had D1/FBS football for a significantly longer duration of time. The interesting thing about institutional-fit for UConn is there are very few institutions like it. It has a $450 million endowment with 30,000 students and a top-60 national ranking. In the B1G, they would be the second smallest university, only to Northwestern (a private school). They would have, by a substantial margin, the lowest endowment in the entire league (where all the B1G schools have endowments in the billions). If you look at the ACC, they would also have the smallest endowment by a significant margin. Since there are a number of private institutions in the ACC, their enrollment numbers would actually be very similar. But, again, their football program lacks history, sustained success and the football-block (Clemson, FSU, Miami, VT, etc.) would most definitely have blocked them long-term. The fact that they have little-to-no football history is another huge barrier. If you look within the American, many of the schools are metropolitan universities, with a mixture of private/public schools with one lone additional Northeast institution (Temple). Regionally and endowment-wise, the University of Delaware has double the endowment that UConn has, and even the University of Vermont has a greater endowment (but, both schools have fewer students). Both schools are also also top-100 national universities - but neither have the brand or reputation that UConn does.

In the Big East, UConn now belongs to the top non-football conference in the country, which much better aligns with the long-term goals and objectives of its athletic department, and shares membership with a number of geographic and historical rivals. Additionally, much like the C7, UConn now gets to control its own destiny and future with athletics, not letting other conferences and institutions dictate its direction.

UConn may not be a Private school, but it is very much a like-minded fit within the Big East (and a much better fit than it was in the American); it is basketball-focused, with a strong NE presence and was a founding member of the league 40 years ago (as a non-football member).

An extremely well-thought and written post. I agree with about 95 percent of this. And rarely do I agree to that extent with a post of this number of points. Well done, GW11.

But this line made me take pause:

"UConn now belongs to the top non-football conference in the country."

How does one define "top non-football conference"?

I would think that many folks who know their stuff might contend the Big West is every bit as "top non-football league" as the Big East. The Big West offers significant baseball, Olympic sports, academic prestige, enrollments and endowments.

I'm not suggesting the Big West IS the "top non-football conference" in the nation. But I will not let my bias toward the Big East (which I am biased toward and admit) blind me to the noteworthy elements of the Big West.

You are known to be a bit overly pro-Big East so I have to note this. Having said this, you do a fine job of giving other leagues credit and you might appreciate my respect for Marquette. But I call it like it is and try to do so respectfully. Your one comment seemed a bit excessive.

But, again, a well made post overall. And I'm with you.

Appreciate the kind words, Bill.

The Big East being labeled the top non-football conference in the country comes from the financial value placed upon it by the market, as well as its national exposure from the main networks. No other non-football conference comes close to its television payouts or even exposure on national television. You reference the Big West, which is a strong non-football conference as well - winning multiple national championships in sports like volleyball, baseball, softball and soccer. However, despite this success, the Big West is not earning multi-millions per member in television payouts annually, nor to they get the same type of exposure that the Big East does. Additionally, no other non-football league has revenue-sport scheduling agreements with power conferences (B1G and Big 12).

(07-02-2019 10:10 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  As to TT at Cincinnati it was a big time hire when made with the idea of making the splash for joining a P5 conference.

Plenty of other qualified candidates I'm sure would have lined up for TT's large salary.

Also when the AAC was first formed it did have a BCS autobid for one year and there was a thought that they would be a true challenger conference that could place a team into CFP. We learned after a few years all the committee cares about is best schedule so the G5 is screwed. At the time of the TT hire it was yet uncharted territory as to how the new system was going to play out.

It wasn't the diminutive hire that Quo is trying to make it out to be by any means.

Cincy pulled back then what UH just did with Holgorsen. Tuberville went 13-0 in the SEC 8 years earlier and was 5 years removed from 4 straight top-15 finishes. Actually one of the better resumes a G5 has hired.

(07-02-2019 10:03 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(07-02-2019 02:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-02-2019 12:12 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(07-02-2019 11:57 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-02-2019 08:29 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  There's a lot of programs that would love to be as "mediocre" as UC has been. 12 bowl games in the past 16 seasons with 6 conference titles, along with 5-6 Top 25 finishes. The Tuberville hire was a huge mistake (made by Virginia Tech's current AD Whit Babcock). Babcock should have gone with the up and comers that was the blue print for success at UC: Mark Dantonio, Brian Kelly, Butch Jones and now Luke Fickell.

Cincy did have quite a bit of success - in the Big East. They won two Big East championships, went to two BCS bowls, and won four bowl games.

In the AAC, they have seen nothing like that: Zero division championships, and one bowl win over just about the worst possible opponent and by the barest margin. Someone said they "shared" the 2014 AAC championship, but I looked that up and it was a 3-way tie with UCF and Memphis, and by tie-breakers Cincy would have lost, as they lost to Memphis and didn't play UCF.

The come-down from the Big East has been pretty dramatic, there's no denying that. Anyone who says that the AAC has been good for Cincy football just hasn't been paying attention.

You're acting like the conference change happened in a vaccuum. Cincy also made a horrible coaching hire at the exact same time.

You may as well blame SMU's conference change for its horrible run of football in the 1990s. You know, and forget the fact that they had the death penalty for two years in the late 80s.

The proof that it was a coaching problem is that the next coach (Luke Fickell) immediately got recruiting back to the level it had been when UC was in the Big East (actually it's slightly better). And by Year 2 he had UC back to the level of success it had in the best days of the Big East.

More evidence that it was a coaching problem is that fellow demotee USF (who you should be familiar with) has had more success in the AAC than it did in the Big East.

The coaching hire didn't happen in a vacuum either - when TT was hired, it was clear the Big East wasn't going to rmeain AQ, which surely reduced interest among good candidates. Any way you slice it though, Cincy has been auch worse.

As for USF, i would say our success level in the AAC has been about the same as in the Big East.

I think what you are missing here is UC's program is completely different from what it was prior to the buildup that started when they joined CUSA.

25 years ago they were a lot like UMass or Akron in FB, it was a financial non factor for them. UC was even dropped briefly to FCS in the early 80's as part of the NCAA reorganization.

Today they definitely look the part facility wise and financially of a top tier G5 football program that is a legitimate P5 candidate. The swoon in success under Tuberville didn't damage the program enough to change its overall trajectory against all the upgrades and improvements made through the years.

From this big picture vantagepoint they really haven't lost the ground that you are claiming (though it may seem they've slipped a little from where they were under Kelly on the field).

UConn's program is completely different from 20 years ago as well. IIRC, it didn't exist as FBS then.

Has Cincy been spending more on football than UConn? Probably not.

So why is everyone (AAC fans) eager to chalk up Cincy's clear and obvious decline in results on the field compared to their Big East tenure to "a bad coaching hire" while with UConn it is somehow something far more deep and structural?

It's pretty funny watching AAC fans talk about Cincy's several bad years in the AAC as just a "coaching blip" and say that they are otherwise a powerful, P5 ready program, but they don't do the same for UConn.

(07-02-2019 11:35 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(07-02-2019 08:16 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(07-02-2019 03:10 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(07-02-2019 02:43 PM)colohank Wrote:  There has to be more than a common interest and competency in one major sport to sustain a conference. Ideally, an affiliation would also comprise a group of like-minded peer institutions which share a distinct geography. Though its basketball history and aspirations align with those of other NBE members and the school is situated within the existing footprint, UConn is a cultural outlier -- a public state flagship in a flotilla of small, private, and largely catholic universities.

UConn was in bed with many of those schools before and chose divorce. It'll be interesting to see how a second marriage to the same partners works out.

Cincinnati is an even bigger public research university. There's no way it would or should be aligned with the NBE. We'll continue, however, to enjoy the annual Crosstown Shootout or whatever it's called.

UConn did not leave the basketball schools; the C7 decided to leave the football schools, then purchased the Big East name and branding. UConn remained in what was, legally, Big East Football.

UConn, by itself, is a cultural outlier no matter conference it ultimately belongs to (BE/AAC/B1G/ACC/etc.); it is not really in the same grouping at Syracuse/BC/Rutgers only because those institutions have had D1/FBS football for a significantly longer duration of time. The interesting thing about institutional-fit for UConn is there are very few institutions like it. It has a $450 million endowment with 30,000 students and a top-60 national ranking. In the B1G, they would be the second smallest university, only to Northwestern (a private school). They would have, by a substantial margin, the lowest endowment in the entire league (where all the B1G schools have endowments in the billions). If you look at the ACC, they would also have the smallest endowment by a significant margin. Since there are a number of private institutions in the ACC, their enrollment numbers would actually be very similar. But, again, their football program lacks history, sustained success and the football-block (Clemson, FSU, Miami, VT, etc.) would most definitely have blocked them long-term. The fact that they have little-to-no football history is another huge barrier. If you look within the American, many of the schools are metropolitan universities, with a mixture of private/public schools with one lone additional Northeast institution (Temple). Regionally and endowment-wise, the University of Delaware has double the endowment that UConn has, and even the University of Vermont has a greater endowment (but, both schools have fewer students). Both schools are also also top-100 national universities - but neither have the brand or reputation that UConn does.

In the Big East, UConn now belongs to the top non-football conference in the country, which much better aligns with the long-term goals and objectives of its athletic department, and shares membership with a number of geographic and historical rivals. Additionally, much like the C7, UConn now gets to control its own destiny and future with athletics, not letting other conferences and institutions dictate its direction.

UConn may not be a Private school, but it is very much a like-minded fit within the Big East (and a much better fit than it was in the American); it is basketball-focused, with a strong NE presence and was a founding member of the league 40 years ago (as a non-football member).

An extremely well-thought and written post. I agree with about 95 percent of this. And rarely do I agree to that extent with a post of this number of points. Well done, GW11.

But this line made me take pause:

"UConn now belongs to the top non-football conference in the country."

How does one define "top non-football conference"?

I would think that many folks who know their stuff might contend the Big West is every bit as "top non-football league" as the Big East. The Big West offers significant baseball, Olympic sports, academic prestige, enrollments and endowments.

I'm not suggesting the Big West IS the "top non-football conference" in the nation. But I will not let my bias toward the Big East (which I am biased toward and admit) blind me to the noteworthy elements of the Big West.

You are known to be a bit overly pro-Big East so I have to note this. Having said this, you do a fine job of giving other leagues credit and you might appreciate my respect for Marquette. But I call it like it is and try to do so respectfully. Your one comment seemed a bit excessive.

But, again, a well made post overall. And I'm with you.

Appreciate the kind words, Bill.

The Big East being labeled the top non-football conference in the country comes from the financial value placed upon it by the market, as well as its national exposure from the main networks. No other non-football conference comes close to its television payouts or even exposure on national television. You reference the Big West, which is a strong non-football conference as well - winning multiple national championships in sports like volleyball, baseball, softball and soccer. However, despite this success, the Big West is not earning multi-millions per member in television payouts annually, nor to they get the same type of exposure that the Big East does. Additionally, no other non-football league has revenue-sport scheduling agreements with power conferences (B1G and Big 12).

Ah. This makes full sense.

Agree 100 percent.

Thanks for the clarification, GWII.