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Should Cincy join UConn in the Big East?
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WhoseHouse? Offline
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Post: #241
RE: Should Cincy join UConn in the Big East?
(07-06-2019 02:13 PM)scoscox Wrote:  
(07-06-2019 01:56 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  Maybe. The extent to which their leaving will impact the conference remains to be seen. One would think it would have a negative impact but they haven't exactly performed well since that title run. Right now recruiting is at an all-time high for basically every team in the conference, so the future looks bright.

I'm not quite as optimistic as you, but that's understandable lol. UConn will have a lot of ripple effects in basketball imo. That brand means a lot. And they've probably been one of the three best recruiting schools in the american on average despite Ollie tanking the program.

I liked having them as a conference foe, especially because we owned them, and I certainly think AAC basketball would be better off with them in the league. However, I still think there are enough quality programs in the league that it holds its ground as the best non-power league, and possibly still continues to close that gap.
07-06-2019 02:48 PM
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scoscox Offline
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Post: #242
RE: Should Cincy join UConn in the Big East?
(07-06-2019 02:48 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  However, I still think there are enough quality programs in the league that it holds its ground as the best non-power league

I don't think they're in any danger of that
07-06-2019 03:00 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #243
RE: Should Cincy join UConn in the Big East?
(07-06-2019 01:33 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  
(07-06-2019 01:24 PM)scoscox Wrote:  Besides UConn, Houston's two wins last year constitute the only other trip the anyone in the American has taken to the sweet sixteen while in the conference. That's not good enough to call yourself a power conference. When, UConn leaves, they'll be even more hard pressed to make that claim. You need UC, Houston, and Memphis to all really raise their level.

The conference does need to perform better in the postseason (in multiple sports) but I think the basketball is still trending up (even with UConn leaving). Memphis, UH, Cincy, Temple, and Wichita make a nice core and the other programs have shown signs of improvement. If it isn't a power conference then its the next best thing.



This is perfectly put, WhoseHouse. Without UConn, the American will have five hoops programs that most fair and knowledgeable observers of college basketball would could label "power programs" in a general sense (not at the level of UNC, Duke, UK, etc., obviously, but still with strong histories, fan bases, tourney success, ability to pay top salaries, etc.) or, at the least, high-major: Cincy, Houston, Memphis, Temple and Wichita. It also has two hoops programs that rank in most of the "All-Time Top 100 College Basketball Programs" lists that I've read over the years: SMU and Tulsa. So that's seven of 11 that are within the major to high-major to power scale. If the American was willing to add a non-football program (and assuming it would join) — VCU is another major to high-major program. So that leaves this: UCF (putting major resources into its program and has a strong coach); USF (see UCF); Tulane (has enjoyed some good season over the years but ...); ECU (I'll be polite and write nothing).

I have followed the Metro, Great Midwest, Conference USA and, now, the American for many years and feel the AAC is on very sound footing in basketball. The loss of UConn is a huge blow, no doubt. But the AAC can remain respected and competitive.

As WhoseHouse notes: "If the AAC isn't a power conference — then its the next best thing."

One more thing: The term "power" is very subjective. Some define it strictly based on resources. Thus, any college hoops program in the Power 5 is a "power program" even if it has historically been horrid. Others define the term based on results. Still others define it based on a combo of results and resources.

I will never forgot the chat I had in the early 1990s when I was doing some freelance sports reporting (in this case, regarding The Great Midwest Conference) and had just interviewed then-Marquette coach Kevin O'Neill. Somebody (a bombastic fellow, as I recall) contended Marquette was a "mid-major" program because it played in a "lower-level" conference. I politely corrected him using a bevy of statistics, comparisons, examples and the beauty of the then-Warriors insane uniforms of the 1970s to prove Marquette was a power program. And he walked away with a new mindset.

I write this because some folks on this board sometimes put a bit too much stock in a program's league affiliation, thus occasionally losing some perspective. It's always helpful to look at the big picture and to do so wanting to evolve and learn.

Now on that note, I shall prepare for a night of listening to music, drinking craft beer and watching aerial videos of U.S. cities via youtube.
(This post was last modified: 07-06-2019 06:47 PM by bill dazzle.)
07-06-2019 06:43 PM
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rtaylor Offline
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Post: #244
RE: Should Cincy join UConn in the Big East?
(06-25-2019 08:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Seems like from a $$$ POV it could work. They could get the $4m from the Big East for T1 rights for all but football, go Indy in football for maybe $4m a year from ESPN, and sell the T3 for another million or two.

That beats the Aresco deal, no?

Man, I miss Miko. His stuff was top notch. 07-coffee3
07-07-2019 01:26 AM
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Bull Offline
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Post: #245
RE: Should Cincy join UConn in the Big East?
Being a USF fan, I wish UConn well and couldn't care less if they 'beat' the AAC deal. From just about everything I'm seeing in media though, they actually believed they could park their awful football program in the AAC. That was astonishingly naïve. We dump what was just about our worst FB program, and already raise our SOS. With a stronger FB addition, we raise it even more... There are a few BB candidates out there who mitigate the damage somewhat from losing UConn, although admittedly right now they have quite a standing. I worried a lot when the old Big East fell apart. I'm not worried in the slightest about losing UConn.

On their side, I don't see any hope for their FB program. Indy is a real problem for anyone not named Notre Dame, and perhaps BYU (even their coaches discuss this...)... so long as you don't care about conference championships, etc. Leaving a conference that just got a 300+ percent raise, to go to a new conference that makes less $$, and at the expense of trashing your FB program... For a team that was in a BCS bowl a few years ago that's astonishing. Everyone else is scratching and clawing to ELEVATE their football programs... but with their sky high debt maybe they had no choice. Here is a pretty good summary (written by a UConn guy):

https://medium.com/@stholeary/12-reasons...90b9a00043

As I said, I wish UConn nothing but the best. At least surely they will be happier on the BB side of things...
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2019 02:46 PM by Bull.)
07-07-2019 02:44 PM
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scoscox Offline
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Post: #246
RE: Should Cincy join UConn in the Big East?
That article is trash
07-07-2019 02:52 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Online
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Post: #247
RE: Should Cincy join UConn in the Big East?
"The zombie Big East is basically an updated version of the old Atlantic 10 and I simply don’t understand why UConn fans are excited about this."

[Image: giphy.gif?cid=790b76115d224fb032475a3532...=giphy.gif]
07-07-2019 03:07 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #248
RE: Should Cincy join UConn in the Big East?
(07-07-2019 02:52 PM)scoscox Wrote:  That article is trash

I found some elements of his article odd at the least — and others simply wrong and bordering on disrespectful to the Big East. Nine "mediocre programs." That is laughable (and a shot at the two BE hoops teams I follow, which stung).

But, and to be fair, his general points are well made.

1. This is not the Big East in its heyday. It remains a strong league but losing BC, Pitt, Syracuse, West Virginia, Louisville, Miami, VaTech, Cincy and Notre Dame over the years ... you don't ever get better in basketball with such losses.

2. There will be major concerns for UConn football. Now, to be fair, being an independent might be "less bad" for the Husky program than being a part of AAC football (which was a disaster). But ... if I were a UConn fan, I would be (just like the writer) very concerned about the football situation.

3. The American has gradually improved in hoops. It is not on the level of the Big East — and never will be, realistically — but it is a very solid league with some influential programs and quality coaches. And it's gaining some national respect. Admittedly, I also follow two AAC programs, but I can strongly criticize the American any time when needed. Bluntly, I feel AAC hoops has underachieved overall since the league's formation (though there is now, as noted, reason for hope).

You and I (and all the others who follow the BE) have to accept one key point: UConn does not "want" to be in the Big East. It would vastly prefer the Atlantic Coast Conference. True, most Husky fans and coaches strongly prefer the Big East to the American. But UConn would rather be in the ACC. And I don't fault them at all for that. Just like I don't fault them for the move to the Big East.
07-07-2019 07:46 PM
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zoocrew Offline
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Post: #249
RE: Should Cincy join UConn in the Big East?
The Big East is deader than those Villanova Priest’s credibility.
07-07-2019 08:01 PM
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scoscox Offline
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Post: #250
RE: Should Cincy join UConn in the Big East?
(07-07-2019 08:01 PM)zoocrew Wrote:  Pitt Basketball is deader than those Villanova Priest’s credibility.

Couldn't agree more!
07-07-2019 08:42 PM
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zoocrew Offline
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RE: Should Cincy join UConn in the Big East?
(07-07-2019 08:42 PM)scoscox Wrote:  
(07-07-2019 08:01 PM)zoocrew Wrote:  Pitt Basketball is deader than those Villanova Priest’s credibility.

Couldn't agree more!

Ignorant.
07-08-2019 09:27 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #252
RE: Should Cincy join UConn in the Big East?
(07-07-2019 07:46 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(07-07-2019 02:52 PM)scoscox Wrote:  That article is trash

I found some elements of his article odd at the least — and others simply wrong and bordering on disrespectful to the Big East. Nine "mediocre programs." That is laughable (and a shot at the two BE hoops teams I follow, which stung).

But, and to be fair, his general points are well made.

1. This is not the Big East in its heyday. It remains a strong league but losing BC, Pitt, Syracuse, West Virginia, Louisville, Miami, VaTech, Cincy and Notre Dame over the years ... you don't ever get better in basketball with such losses.

How many heydays can a conference have? To me, the heyday was the 80’s, and they’re 77% the way there. If you think about titles, they’re only missing the one Syracuse title over ol’ fumblef**k Roy.
07-08-2019 09:33 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #253
RE: Should Cincy join UConn in the Big East?
(07-08-2019 09:33 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(07-07-2019 07:46 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(07-07-2019 02:52 PM)scoscox Wrote:  That article is trash

I found some elements of his article odd at the least — and others simply wrong and bordering on disrespectful to the Big East. Nine "mediocre programs." That is laughable (and a shot at the two BE hoops teams I follow, which stung).

But, and to be fair, his general points are well made.

1. This is not the Big East in its heyday. It remains a strong league but losing BC, Pitt, Syracuse, West Virginia, Louisville, Miami, VaTech, Cincy and Notre Dame over the years ... you don't ever get better in basketball with such losses.

How many heydays can a conference have? To me, the heyday was the 80’s, and they’re 77% the way there. If you think about titles, they’re only missing the one Syracuse title over ol’ fumblef**k Roy.

Yea, it's been a long, winding road getting here, but the net effect from the original 80's Big East crew to a year or two from now when UConn joins will wind up being that the conference lost 3 members and offset them with 5 additions, which isn't a huge amount of turnover given some of the realities of conference realignment over the years. It's just all the craziness in the middle (which admittedly resulted in some very good basketball) trying to accommodate football....
07-08-2019 09:51 PM
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Tigersmoke4 Offline
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Post: #254
RE: Should Cincy join UConn in the Big East?
(07-08-2019 09:51 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(07-08-2019 09:33 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(07-07-2019 07:46 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(07-07-2019 02:52 PM)scoscox Wrote:  That article is trash

I found some elements of his article odd at the least — and others simply wrong and bordering on disrespectful to the Big East. Nine "mediocre programs." That is laughable (and a shot at the two BE hoops teams I follow, which stung).

But, and to be fair, his general points are well made.

1. This is not the Big East in its heyday. It remains a strong league but losing BC, Pitt, Syracuse, West Virginia, Louisville, Miami, VaTech, Cincy and Notre Dame over the years ... you don't ever get better in basketball with such losses.

How many heydays can a conference have? To me, the heyday was the 80’s, and they’re 77% the way there. If you think about titles, they’re only missing the one Syracuse title over ol’ fumblef**k Roy.

Yea, it's been a long, winding road getting here, but the net effect from the original 80's Big East crew to a year or two from now when UConn joins will wind up being that the conference lost 3 members and offset them with 5 additions, which isn't a huge amount of turnover given some of the realities of conference realignment over the years. It's just all the craziness in the middle (which admittedly resulted in some very good basketball) trying to accommodate football....

Hey can ya'll stop kissing long enough to tell me some more about this extra 2 million dollar bump Fox is dying to give each individual program before the TV contract is up because UCONN is coming back, and how Fox owns all of UCONN women's basketball rights but they are going to give it all back to them for free,,,, well because they love you all so very much. 03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao
07-09-2019 02:00 AM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #255
RE: Should Cincy join UConn in the Big East?
(07-09-2019 02:00 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  Hey can ya'll stop kissing long enough to tell me some more about this extra 2 million dollar bump Fox is dying to give each individual program before the TV contract is up because UCONN is coming back, and how Fox owns all of UCONN women's basketball rights but they are going to give it all back to them for free,,,, well because they love you all so very much. 03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao

The move isn't actually about money, it's because we don't like you.
07-09-2019 07:23 AM
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