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UMKC going to Summit
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: UMKC going to Summit
(06-23-2019 11:14 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 11:49 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 10:48 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  Maybe the WAC should have let KC host one year

Maybe they didn’t on purpose so you would leave. Speaking of leaving, don’t feel like you have to wait till 7/1/20 to leave this board. You can leave sooner.

PS, I hope your new coach is working on FTs so the refs don’t determine the outcome of your games when you miss crucial ones late in the game...

The Elephant in the room is that NMSU is so different financially from a sports perspective from every other school in the WAC (Compare NMSU vs Chicago St) that it will continue to cause instability in the WAC until they can find a football conference to join.

The jump NMSU made this year in basketball was very impressive and they looked like a sweet 16 team if they had been paired against anyone but Auburn.

There is just no competitive balance when NMSU can recruit the way they are so there is little incentive to finance sports when the WAC is so top heavy.

I'll enjoy the WAC for one last year.

Every team in the conference is different financially from Chicago State. NMSU is not winning because they have financial advantages. They win with better coaching and a basketball brand, a tradition than attracts quality recruits. Here are the 2017-2018 basketball budgets for the WAC schools:

Grand Canyon - $5,337,280
Seattle - $2,993,341
NMSU - $2,485,019
CSUB - $2,172,991
UVU - $1,861,238
UMKC - $1,859,426
CBU - $1,768,970
UTRGV - $1,589,120
Chicago State - $1,192,542

The WAC had three schools in the top 100 of Net ranking last season (NMSU, UVU, GCU). NMSU was the dominant team, but there are other good schools in this conference. GCU has done a very good job of recruiting and a poor job of developing talent. Seattle and CBU will be tougher this next season. CBU's basketball budget will eventually grow to second behind GCU.

NMSU beats Auburn if Kyle Guy is shooting the free throws instead of Terrell Brown. The difference between Virginia beating Auburn and NMSU not winning is just hitting free throws.
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2019 03:41 PM by SoCalBobcat78.)
06-23-2019 03:40 PM
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Stugray2 Online
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Post: #62
RE: UMKC going to Summit
Agree with SoCalBobcat.

Your Chicago State number doesn't match the reported numbers to the Deportment of Education (the others do). It appears to add operating expenses to the total (over $200K, for the other schools the number is $400-500k).

The actual Chicago State budget was $919,075

A big chunk of GCU's budget is how much they pay their HC, it's a couple million higher than anyone else.
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2019 03:54 PM by Stugray2.)
06-23-2019 03:53 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: UMKC going to Summit
(06-23-2019 03:53 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Agree with SoCalBobcat.

Your Chicago State number doesn't match the reported numbers to the Deportment of Education (the others do). It appears to add operating expenses to the total (over $200K, for the other schools the number is $400-500k).

The actual Chicago State budget was $919,075

A big chunk of GCU's budget is how much they pay their HC, it's a couple million higher than anyone else.

I actually put the basketball revenue instead of the expenses for the basketball budget. In many cases they are the same or virtually the same. Based on the DOE numbers, Chicago State made a profit of just over $273,000 on basketball.
06-23-2019 04:16 PM
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dbackjon Online
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Post: #64
RE: UMKC going to Summit
(06-23-2019 03:53 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Agree with SoCalBobcat.

Your Chicago State number doesn't match the reported numbers to the Deportment of Education (the others do). It appears to add operating expenses to the total (over $200K, for the other schools the number is $400-500k).

The actual Chicago State budget was $919,075

A big chunk of GCU's budget is how much they pay their HC, it's a couple million higher than anyone else.

And all GCU has to show for it is to be able to proclaim themselves the best home court advantage over HBCUs in the country! (Although it looks like CBU will try to take that title away next year)
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2019 05:05 PM by dbackjon.)
06-23-2019 05:05 PM
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RoosHouse Offline
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Post: #65
RE: UMKC going to Summit
(06-23-2019 03:40 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 11:14 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 11:49 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 10:48 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  Maybe the WAC should have let KC host one year

Maybe they didn’t on purpose so you would leave. Speaking of leaving, don’t feel like you have to wait till 7/1/20 to leave this board. You can leave sooner.

PS, I hope your new coach is working on FTs so the refs don’t determine the outcome of your games when you miss crucial ones late in the game...

The Elephant in the room is that NMSU is so different financially from a sports perspective from every other school in the WAC (Compare NMSU vs Chicago St) that it will continue to cause instability in the WAC until they can find a football conference to join.

The jump NMSU made this year in basketball was very impressive and they looked like a sweet 16 team if they had been paired against anyone but Auburn.

There is just no competitive balance when NMSU can recruit the way they are so there is little incentive to finance sports when the WAC is so top heavy.

I'll enjoy the WAC for one last year.

Every team in the conference is different financially from Chicago State. NMSU is not winning because they have financial advantages. They win with better coaching and a basketball brand, a tradition than attracts quality recruits. Here are the 2017-2018 basketball budgets for the WAC schools:

Grand Canyon - $5,337,280
Seattle - $2,993,341
NMSU - $2,485,019
CSUB - $2,172,991
UVU - $1,861,238
UMKC - $1,859,426
CBU - $1,768,970
UTRGV - $1,589,120
Chicago State - $1,192,542

The WAC had three schools in the top 100 of Net ranking last season (NMSU, UVU, GCU). NMSU was the dominant team, but there are other good schools in this conference. GCU has done a very good job of recruiting and a poor job of developing talent. Seattle and CBU will be tougher this next season. CBU's basketball budget will eventually grow to second behind GCU.

NMSU beats Auburn if Kyle Guy is shooting the free throws instead of Terrell Brown. The difference between Virginia beating Auburn and NMSU not winning is just hitting free throws.

I believe those are just operating budgets. NMSU is still 33% higher than UMKC. What about the total assets? Owning the Pan AM Center vs renting the Muni. The operating budgets start to widen more.
06-23-2019 06:26 PM
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RoosHouse Offline
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Post: #66
RE: UMKC going to Summit
(06-23-2019 06:26 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 03:40 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 11:14 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 11:49 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 10:48 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  Maybe the WAC should have let KC host one year

Maybe they didn’t on purpose so you would leave. Speaking of leaving, don’t feel like you have to wait till 7/1/20 to leave this board. You can leave sooner.

PS, I hope your new coach is working on FTs so the refs don’t determine the outcome of your games when you miss crucial ones late in the game...

The Elephant in the room is that NMSU is so different financially from a sports perspective from every other school in the WAC (Compare NMSU vs Chicago St) that it will continue to cause instability in the WAC until they can find a football conference to join.

The jump NMSU made this year in basketball was very impressive and they looked like a sweet 16 team if they had been paired against anyone but Auburn.

There is just no competitive balance when NMSU can recruit the way they are so there is little incentive to finance sports when the WAC is so top heavy.

I'll enjoy the WAC for one last year.

Every team in the conference is different financially from Chicago State. NMSU is not winning because they have financial advantages. They win with better coaching and a basketball brand, a tradition than attracts quality recruits. Here are the 2017-2018 basketball budgets for the WAC schools:

Grand Canyon - $5,337,280
Seattle - $2,993,341
NMSU - $2,485,019
CSUB - $2,172,991
UVU - $1,861,238
UMKC - $1,859,426
CBU - $1,768,970
UTRGV - $1,589,120
Chicago State - $1,192,542

The WAC had three schools in the top 100 of Net ranking last season (NMSU, UVU, GCU). NMSU was the dominant team, but there are other good schools in this conference. GCU has done a very good job of recruiting and a poor job of developing talent. Seattle and CBU will be tougher this next season. CBU's basketball budget will eventually grow to second behind GCU.

NMSU beats Auburn if Kyle Guy is shooting the free throws instead of Terrell Brown. The difference between Virginia beating Auburn and NMSU not winning is just hitting free throws.

I believe those are just operating budgets. NMSU is still 33% higher than UMKC. What about the total assets? Owning the Pan AM Center vs renting the Muni. The operating budgets start to widen more.

In today's NCAA its impossible to know why a recruit chooses a school over another, I find the process completely unregulated and enforcement for breaking rules completely random.
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2019 06:44 PM by RoosHouse.)
06-23-2019 06:32 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #67
RE: UMKC going to Summit
(06-23-2019 06:32 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 06:26 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 03:40 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 11:14 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 11:49 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  Maybe they didn’t on purpose so you would leave. Speaking of leaving, don’t feel like you have to wait till 7/1/20 to leave this board. You can leave sooner.

PS, I hope your new coach is working on FTs so the refs don’t determine the outcome of your games when you miss crucial ones late in the game...

The Elephant in the room is that NMSU is so different financially from a sports perspective from every other school in the WAC (Compare NMSU vs Chicago St) that it will continue to cause instability in the WAC until they can find a football conference to join.

The jump NMSU made this year in basketball was very impressive and they looked like a sweet 16 team if they had been paired against anyone but Auburn.

There is just no competitive balance when NMSU can recruit the way they are so there is little incentive to finance sports when the WAC is so top heavy.

I'll enjoy the WAC for one last year.

Every team in the conference is different financially from Chicago State. NMSU is not winning because they have financial advantages. They win with better coaching and a basketball brand, a tradition than attracts quality recruits. Here are the 2017-2018 basketball budgets for the WAC schools:

Grand Canyon - $5,337,280
Seattle - $2,993,341
NMSU - $2,485,019
CSUB - $2,172,991
UVU - $1,861,238
UMKC - $1,859,426
CBU - $1,768,970
UTRGV - $1,589,120
Chicago State - $1,192,542

The WAC had three schools in the top 100 of Net ranking last season (NMSU, UVU, GCU). NMSU was the dominant team, but there are other good schools in this conference. GCU has done a very good job of recruiting and a poor job of developing talent. Seattle and CBU will be tougher this next season. CBU's basketball budget will eventually grow to second behind GCU.

NMSU beats Auburn if Kyle Guy is shooting the free throws instead of Terrell Brown. The difference between Virginia beating Auburn and NMSU not winning is just hitting free throws.

I believe those are just operating budgets. NMSU is still 33% higher than UMKC. What about the total assets? Owning the Pan AM Center vs renting the Muni. The operating budgets start to widen more.

In today's NCAA its impossible to know why a recruit chooses a school over another, I find the process completely unregulated and enforcement for breaking rules completely random.

Why should a recruit have to say why he’s choosing a school? If he were accepting money, do you really think they would say so? People make choices and they don’t have to give reasons. You can quit your job and if they ask you why you’re quitting, you can tell them the real reason or just make something up. Why can’t recruits do the same?
06-23-2019 06:52 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #68
RE: UMKC going to Summit
(06-23-2019 06:26 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 03:40 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 11:14 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 11:49 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 10:48 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  Maybe the WAC should have let KC host one year

Maybe they didn’t on purpose so you would leave. Speaking of leaving, don’t feel like you have to wait till 7/1/20 to leave this board. You can leave sooner.

PS, I hope your new coach is working on FTs so the refs don’t determine the outcome of your games when you miss crucial ones late in the game...

The Elephant in the room is that NMSU is so different financially from a sports perspective from every other school in the WAC (Compare NMSU vs Chicago St) that it will continue to cause instability in the WAC until they can find a football conference to join.

The jump NMSU made this year in basketball was very impressive and they looked like a sweet 16 team if they had been paired against anyone but Auburn.

There is just no competitive balance when NMSU can recruit the way they are so there is little incentive to finance sports when the WAC is so top heavy.

I'll enjoy the WAC for one last year.

Every team in the conference is different financially from Chicago State. NMSU is not winning because they have financial advantages. They win with better coaching and a basketball brand, a tradition than attracts quality recruits. Here are the 2017-2018 basketball budgets for the WAC schools:

Grand Canyon - $5,337,280
Seattle - $2,993,341
NMSU - $2,485,019
CSUB - $2,172,991
UVU - $1,861,238
UMKC - $1,859,426
CBU - $1,768,970
UTRGV - $1,589,120
Chicago State - $1,192,542

The WAC had three schools in the top 100 of Net ranking last season (NMSU, UVU, GCU). NMSU was the dominant team, but there are other good schools in this conference. GCU has done a very good job of recruiting and a poor job of developing talent. Seattle and CBU will be tougher this next season. CBU's basketball budget will eventually grow to second behind GCU.

NMSU beats Auburn if Kyle Guy is shooting the free throws instead of Terrell Brown. The difference between Virginia beating Auburn and NMSU not winning is just hitting free throws.

I believe those are just operating budgets. NMSU is still 33% higher than UMKC. What about the total assets? Owning the Pan AM Center vs renting the Muni. The operating budgets start to widen more.

NMSU athletics doesn't own the Pan Am. Special Events does and athletics pays them $20,000 a year to play there. VB, MBB and WBB are just tennants.
06-23-2019 07:04 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Online
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Post: #69
RE: UMKC going to Summit
(06-23-2019 06:32 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 06:26 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 03:40 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 11:14 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 11:49 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  Maybe they didn’t on purpose so you would leave. Speaking of leaving, don’t feel like you have to wait till 7/1/20 to leave this board. You can leave sooner.

PS, I hope your new coach is working on FTs so the refs don’t determine the outcome of your games when you miss crucial ones late in the game...

The Elephant in the room is that NMSU is so different financially from a sports perspective from every other school in the WAC (Compare NMSU vs Chicago St) that it will continue to cause instability in the WAC until they can find a football conference to join.

The jump NMSU made this year in basketball was very impressive and they looked like a sweet 16 team if they had been paired against anyone but Auburn.

There is just no competitive balance when NMSU can recruit the way they are so there is little incentive to finance sports when the WAC is so top heavy.

I'll enjoy the WAC for one last year.

Every team in the conference is different financially from Chicago State. NMSU is not winning because they have financial advantages. They win with better coaching and a basketball brand, a tradition than attracts quality recruits. Here are the 2017-2018 basketball budgets for the WAC schools:

Grand Canyon - $5,337,280
Seattle - $2,993,341
NMSU - $2,485,019
CSUB - $2,172,991
UVU - $1,861,238
UMKC - $1,859,426
CBU - $1,768,970
UTRGV - $1,589,120
Chicago State - $1,192,542

The WAC had three schools in the top 100 of Net ranking last season (NMSU, UVU, GCU). NMSU was the dominant team, but there are other good schools in this conference. GCU has done a very good job of recruiting and a poor job of developing talent. Seattle and CBU will be tougher this next season. CBU's basketball budget will eventually grow to second behind GCU.

NMSU beats Auburn if Kyle Guy is shooting the free throws instead of Terrell Brown. The difference between Virginia beating Auburn and NMSU not winning is just hitting free throws.

I believe those are just operating budgets. NMSU is still 33% higher than UMKC. What about the total assets? Owning the Pan AM Center vs renting the Muni. The operating budgets start to widen more.

In today's NCAA its impossible to know why a recruit chooses a school over another, I find the process completely unregulated and enforcement for breaking rules completely random.

NMSU wins more in basketball because they hire better coaches. NMSU has a rich basketball tradition and a track record of winning throughout the years which draws better recruits and coaching candidates. Right now, Jans is simply the best coach in the WAC. And our players are winners.

Also, the NMSU environment (fans, facilities, administration, local community) has a way of elevating our coaches and players performance. Theus was no better a coach than when he was at NMSU, Menzies was no better a coach than when he was at NMSU. And, Weir was no better a coach than when he was at NMSU. Jans might be the exception. He appears to be a great coach where ever he resides but we will see when that time comes. Without tradition, the only way to overcome NMSU's strangle hold on the WAC is money; a lot of it. To be honest, I think GCU is capable of overtaking NMSU but their program is built on the wrong foundation... Dan Majerle. If they looked in the college coaching ranks and sunk their money into a better coaching mind and recruiter than Majerle, they could dominate the WAC. As for the rest of the conference, none have the budget, tradition, or environment to consistently out preform NMSU. Coaches like Lou Henson, Neil McCarthy, and even Marvin Menzies have baked in success into the Aggie basketball program.
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2019 07:22 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
06-23-2019 07:05 PM
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RoosHouse Offline
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Post: #70
RE: UMKC going to Summit
(06-23-2019 06:52 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 06:32 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 06:26 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 03:40 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 11:14 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  The Elephant in the room is that NMSU is so different financially from a sports perspective from every other school in the WAC (Compare NMSU vs Chicago St) that it will continue to cause instability in the WAC until they can find a football conference to join.

The jump NMSU made this year in basketball was very impressive and they looked like a sweet 16 team if they had been paired against anyone but Auburn.

There is just no competitive balance when NMSU can recruit the way they are so there is little incentive to finance sports when the WAC is so top heavy.

I'll enjoy the WAC for one last year.

Every team in the conference is different financially from Chicago State. NMSU is not winning because they have financial advantages. They win with better coaching and a basketball brand, a tradition than attracts quality recruits. Here are the 2017-2018 basketball budgets for the WAC schools:

Grand Canyon - $5,337,280
Seattle - $2,993,341
NMSU - $2,485,019
CSUB - $2,172,991
UVU - $1,861,238
UMKC - $1,859,426
CBU - $1,768,970
UTRGV - $1,589,120
Chicago State - $1,192,542

The WAC had three schools in the top 100 of Net ranking last season (NMSU, UVU, GCU). NMSU was the dominant team, but there are other good schools in this conference. GCU has done a very good job of recruiting and a poor job of developing talent. Seattle and CBU will be tougher this next season. CBU's basketball budget will eventually grow to second behind GCU.

NMSU beats Auburn if Kyle Guy is shooting the free throws instead of Terrell Brown. The difference between Virginia beating Auburn and NMSU not winning is just hitting free throws.

I believe those are just operating budgets. NMSU is still 33% higher than UMKC. What about the total assets? Owning the Pan AM Center vs renting the Muni. The operating budgets start to widen more.

In today's NCAA its impossible to know why a recruit chooses a school over another, I find the process completely unregulated and enforcement for breaking rules completely random.

Why should a recruit have to say why he’s choosing a school? If he were accepting money, do you really think they would say so? People make choices and they don’t have to give reasons. You can quit your job and if they ask you why you’re quitting, you can tell them the real reason or just make something up. Why can’t recruits do the same?

I don't blame players at all. They should get what they can because one injury can change everything and a lot of them come from poverty. I am not a fan of a system where it is behind close doors and we do not know if Arizona is paying players, but NMSU is not or NMSU is paying players and UMKC is not. Or is Arizona paying 100k, NMSU 50k and UMKC 10k. Also, I believe as public Universities they have an obligation to publicly disclose this information. I support a system where the players are paid, but not behind close doors.
06-23-2019 07:26 PM
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RoosHouse Offline
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Post: #71
RE: UMKC going to Summit
(06-23-2019 07:05 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 06:32 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 06:26 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 03:40 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 11:14 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  The Elephant in the room is that NMSU is so different financially from a sports perspective from every other school in the WAC (Compare NMSU vs Chicago St) that it will continue to cause instability in the WAC until they can find a football conference to join.

The jump NMSU made this year in basketball was very impressive and they looked like a sweet 16 team if they had been paired against anyone but Auburn.

There is just no competitive balance when NMSU can recruit the way they are so there is little incentive to finance sports when the WAC is so top heavy.

I'll enjoy the WAC for one last year.

Every team in the conference is different financially from Chicago State. NMSU is not winning because they have financial advantages. They win with better coaching and a basketball brand, a tradition than attracts quality recruits. Here are the 2017-2018 basketball budgets for the WAC schools:

Grand Canyon - $5,337,280
Seattle - $2,993,341
NMSU - $2,485,019
CSUB - $2,172,991
UVU - $1,861,238
UMKC - $1,859,426
CBU - $1,768,970
UTRGV - $1,589,120
Chicago State - $1,192,542

The WAC had three schools in the top 100 of Net ranking last season (NMSU, UVU, GCU). NMSU was the dominant team, but there are other good schools in this conference. GCU has done a very good job of recruiting and a poor job of developing talent. Seattle and CBU will be tougher this next season. CBU's basketball budget will eventually grow to second behind GCU.

NMSU beats Auburn if Kyle Guy is shooting the free throws instead of Terrell Brown. The difference between Virginia beating Auburn and NMSU not winning is just hitting free throws.

I believe those are just operating budgets. NMSU is still 33% higher than UMKC. What about the total assets? Owning the Pan AM Center vs renting the Muni. The operating budgets start to widen more.

In today's NCAA its impossible to know why a recruit chooses a school over another, I find the process completely unregulated and enforcement for breaking rules completely random.

NMSU wins more in basketball because they hire better coaches. NMSU has a rich basketball tradition and a track record of winning throughout the years which draws better recruits and coaching candidates. Right now, Jans is simply the best coach in the WAC. And our players are winners.

Also, the NMSU environment (fans, facilities, administration, local community) has a way of elevating our coaches and players performance. Theus was no better a coach than when he was at NMSU, Menzies was no better a coach than when he was at NMSU. And, Weir was no better a coach than when he was at NMSU. Jans might be the exception. He appears to be a great coach where ever he resides but we will see when that time comes. Without tradition, the only way to overcome NMSU's strangle hold on the WAC is money; a lot of it. To be honest, I think GCU is capable of overtaking NMSU but their program is built on the wrong foundation... Dan Majerle. If they looked in the college coaching ranks and sunk their money into a better coaching mind and recruiter than Majerle, they could dominate the WAC. As for the rest of the conference, none have the budget, tradition, or environment to consistently out preform NMSU. Coaches like Lou Henson, Neil McCarthy, and even Marvin Menzies have baked in success into the Aggie basketball program.

100% could not have said it better and this is why UMKC is leaving. It does not have a lot of money to spend on athletics despite its endowment.
06-23-2019 07:28 PM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #72
RE: UMKC going to Summit
(06-22-2019 02:59 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 10:48 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  Maybe the WAC should have let KC host one year

The WAC has a standing date with the Orleans Arena to play the WAC tourney there. Playing in KC would open up an opportunity for someone else to occupy the Orleans Arena the weekend of the WAC tourney in the future. The WAC tourney is tied to the Orleans Arena until the WAC choses to move its' tourney away from Las Vegas permanently.

Around this time the BSC was looking at neutral site locations. They looked at Vegas but there were no openings. I think the safe bet would have been the WAC losing their Vegas hosting location if the horrible decision to move it to KC for a year would have been made.
06-23-2019 07:28 PM
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RoosHouse Offline
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Post: #73
RE: UMKC going to Summit
(06-23-2019 07:04 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 06:26 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 03:40 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 11:14 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-22-2019 11:49 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  Maybe they didn’t on purpose so you would leave. Speaking of leaving, don’t feel like you have to wait till 7/1/20 to leave this board. You can leave sooner.

PS, I hope your new coach is working on FTs so the refs don’t determine the outcome of your games when you miss crucial ones late in the game...

The Elephant in the room is that NMSU is so different financially from a sports perspective from every other school in the WAC (Compare NMSU vs Chicago St) that it will continue to cause instability in the WAC until they can find a football conference to join.

The jump NMSU made this year in basketball was very impressive and they looked like a sweet 16 team if they had been paired against anyone but Auburn.

There is just no competitive balance when NMSU can recruit the way they are so there is little incentive to finance sports when the WAC is so top heavy.

I'll enjoy the WAC for one last year.

Every team in the conference is different financially from Chicago State. NMSU is not winning because they have financial advantages. They win with better coaching and a basketball brand, a tradition than attracts quality recruits. Here are the 2017-2018 basketball budgets for the WAC schools:

Grand Canyon - $5,337,280
Seattle - $2,993,341
NMSU - $2,485,019
CSUB - $2,172,991
UVU - $1,861,238
UMKC - $1,859,426
CBU - $1,768,970
UTRGV - $1,589,120
Chicago State - $1,192,542

The WAC had three schools in the top 100 of Net ranking last season (NMSU, UVU, GCU). NMSU was the dominant team, but there are other good schools in this conference. GCU has done a very good job of recruiting and a poor job of developing talent. Seattle and CBU will be tougher this next season. CBU's basketball budget will eventually grow to second behind GCU.

NMSU beats Auburn if Kyle Guy is shooting the free throws instead of Terrell Brown. The difference between Virginia beating Auburn and NMSU not winning is just hitting free throws.

I believe those are just operating budgets. NMSU is still 33% higher than UMKC. What about the total assets? Owning the Pan AM Center vs renting the Muni. The operating budgets start to widen more.

NMSU athletics doesn't own the Pan Am. Special Events does and athletics pays them $20,000 a year to play there. VB, MBB and WBB are just tennants.

At UMKC, the players can only shoot around during 'business' hours. I guess since the gym is connected to Swinney. They can't shoot around during the evening or late weekends. Then you look around and see our weight room and even athletic offices. Big difference in Athletic Assets that operating budgets don't always show was the point I was making.
06-23-2019 07:35 PM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #74
RE: UMKC going to Summit
(06-23-2019 07:35 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 07:04 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 06:26 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 03:40 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 11:14 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  The Elephant in the room is that NMSU is so different financially from a sports perspective from every other school in the WAC (Compare NMSU vs Chicago St) that it will continue to cause instability in the WAC until they can find a football conference to join.

The jump NMSU made this year in basketball was very impressive and they looked like a sweet 16 team if they had been paired against anyone but Auburn.

There is just no competitive balance when NMSU can recruit the way they are so there is little incentive to finance sports when the WAC is so top heavy.

I'll enjoy the WAC for one last year.

Every team in the conference is different financially from Chicago State. NMSU is not winning because they have financial advantages. They win with better coaching and a basketball brand, a tradition than attracts quality recruits. Here are the 2017-2018 basketball budgets for the WAC schools:

Grand Canyon - $5,337,280
Seattle - $2,993,341
NMSU - $2,485,019
CSUB - $2,172,991
UVU - $1,861,238
UMKC - $1,859,426
CBU - $1,768,970
UTRGV - $1,589,120
Chicago State - $1,192,542

The WAC had three schools in the top 100 of Net ranking last season (NMSU, UVU, GCU). NMSU was the dominant team, but there are other good schools in this conference. GCU has done a very good job of recruiting and a poor job of developing talent. Seattle and CBU will be tougher this next season. CBU's basketball budget will eventually grow to second behind GCU.

NMSU beats Auburn if Kyle Guy is shooting the free throws instead of Terrell Brown. The difference between Virginia beating Auburn and NMSU not winning is just hitting free throws.

I believe those are just operating budgets. NMSU is still 33% higher than UMKC. What about the total assets? Owning the Pan AM Center vs renting the Muni. The operating budgets start to widen more.

NMSU athletics doesn't own the Pan Am. Special Events does and athletics pays them $20,000 a year to play there. VB, MBB and WBB are just tennants.

At UMKC, the players can only shoot around during 'business' hours. I guess since the gym is connected to Swinney. They can't shoot around during the evening or late weekends. Then you look around and see our weight room and even athletic offices. Big difference in Athletic Assets that operating budgets don't always show was the point I was making.

You are right. UMKC stinks, they have no money and the refs are out to get them as part of a huge WAC conspiracy. The only way to solve all these problems is to drop to a lower conference with inferior teams where you will still be a bottom feeder...
06-24-2019 08:57 AM
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RoosHouse Offline
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Post: #75
RE: UMKC going to Summit
(06-24-2019 08:57 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 07:35 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 07:04 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 06:26 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 03:40 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  Every team in the conference is different financially from Chicago State. NMSU is not winning because they have financial advantages. They win with better coaching and a basketball brand, a tradition than attracts quality recruits. Here are the 2017-2018 basketball budgets for the WAC schools:

Grand Canyon - $5,337,280
Seattle - $2,993,341
NMSU - $2,485,019
CSUB - $2,172,991
UVU - $1,861,238
UMKC - $1,859,426
CBU - $1,768,970
UTRGV - $1,589,120
Chicago State - $1,192,542

The WAC had three schools in the top 100 of Net ranking last season (NMSU, UVU, GCU). NMSU was the dominant team, but there are other good schools in this conference. GCU has done a very good job of recruiting and a poor job of developing talent. Seattle and CBU will be tougher this next season. CBU's basketball budget will eventually grow to second behind GCU.

NMSU beats Auburn if Kyle Guy is shooting the free throws instead of Terrell Brown. The difference between Virginia beating Auburn and NMSU not winning is just hitting free throws.

I believe those are just operating budgets. NMSU is still 33% higher than UMKC. What about the total assets? Owning the Pan AM Center vs renting the Muni. The operating budgets start to widen more.

NMSU athletics doesn't own the Pan Am. Special Events does and athletics pays them $20,000 a year to play there. VB, MBB and WBB are just tennants.

At UMKC, the players can only shoot around during 'business' hours. I guess since the gym is connected to Swinney. They can't shoot around during the evening or late weekends. Then you look around and see our weight room and even athletic offices. Big difference in Athletic Assets that operating budgets don't always show was the point I was making.

You are right. UMKC stinks, they have no money and the refs are out to get them as part of a huge WAC conspiracy. The only way to solve all these problems is to drop to a lower conference with inferior teams where you will still be a bottom feeder...

You miss the major point that if NMSU is going to be a Kenpom top 60 team, UMKC is just diddling around in the WAC like every other team and doesn't have the budget or assets to compete against a division 1 football school. Its like Pepperdine, Santa Clara vs Gonzaga. Better to save money and focus on academics.

IMO the WAC is not stable post football, because there is no competitive balance to the league whatsoever.
06-24-2019 09:42 AM
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NMSUPistolPete Online
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Post: #76
RE: UMKC going to Summit
(06-24-2019 09:42 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-24-2019 08:57 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 07:35 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 07:04 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 06:26 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  I believe those are just operating budgets. NMSU is still 33% higher than UMKC. What about the total assets? Owning the Pan AM Center vs renting the Muni. The operating budgets start to widen more.

NMSU athletics doesn't own the Pan Am. Special Events does and athletics pays them $20,000 a year to play there. VB, MBB and WBB are just tennants.

At UMKC, the players can only shoot around during 'business' hours. I guess since the gym is connected to Swinney. They can't shoot around during the evening or late weekends. Then you look around and see our weight room and even athletic offices. Big difference in Athletic Assets that operating budgets don't always show was the point I was making.

You are right. UMKC stinks, they have no money and the refs are out to get them as part of a huge WAC conspiracy. The only way to solve all these problems is to drop to a lower conference with inferior teams where you will still be a bottom feeder...

You miss the major point that if NMSU is going to be a Kenpom top 60 team, UMKC is just diddling around in the WAC like every other team and doesn't have the budget or assets to compete against a division 1 football school. Its like Pepperdine, Santa Clara vs Gonzaga. Better to save money and focus on academics.

IMO the WAC is not stable post football, because there is no competitive balance to the league whatsoever.

The main reason the WAC is not stable is because of geography. The WAC schools are too spread out for the size of their respective athletic budgets.
This is the main reason why Cal State Bakersfield and UM Kansas City are leaving a much stronger WAC (NET#16 in basketball) for the weaker but more compact Big West (NET #22) and Summit (NET #25). Travel cost for the none revenue sports is draining their respective athletic budgets.

When the WAC nearly collapsed, our Commissioner was allowing any warm body school to join the conference to just stay afloat. It was necessary at the time but it caused the WAC to have no geographic identity and high travel costs. With the addition of western schools Cal Baptist and Dixie State, Hurd is now trying to rectify that problem. Now that UMKC is leaving, it puts Chicago State on an island; with all other WAC schools residing west of the Mississippi River. With the sparseness of schools in the West, the ideal situation for the WAC's survival is for Hurd over time to locate four or five schools west of the Mississippi River who are willing to joining the conference and split into two divisions to reduce travel cost. Seattle to Chicago to Edinburg is a real large conference footprint. Hurd really needs to fill in the gaps... and it appears the most viable D2 schools reside in California, Washington, Colorado, and Texas.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2019 12:40 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
06-24-2019 12:26 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #77
RE: UMKC going to Summit
(06-24-2019 09:42 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  You miss the major point that if NMSU is going to be a Kenpom top 60 team, UMKC is just diddling around in the WAC like every other team and doesn't have the budget or assets to compete against a division 1 football school. Its like Pepperdine, Santa Clara vs Gonzaga. Better to save money and focus on academics.

IMO the WAC is not stable post football, because there is no competitive balance to the league whatsoever.

UMKC does not have the budget or assets to compete. The other schools do. NMSU has an advantage over the other WAC programs due to their basketball history and tradition. They have been to the NCAA Tournament 25 times. For CBU, GCU, UTRGV, UVU and CSUB, the WAC was their first D1 auto bid conference. Seattle is basically restarting D1 basketball, so the WAC was their first D1 auto bid conference. Six of the nine members with no previous experience in an auto bid conference.

Chicago State and UMKC do have previous experience in a D1 league and both have never made the NCAA Tournament. UMKC has never played in a conference championship game, being one win from the NCAA tournament. Chicago State did in 2006, losing to Oral Roberts in the championship game. Chicago State has a 7,000 seat on-campus arena built in 2007. Chicago State even built a new baseball stadium that was completed in 2014 at a cost of $2.5 million. The UMKC 1,600 seat Swinney Recreation Center was built in 1941 and renovated in 1988.

It feels like Chicago State is more committed to D1 than UMKC. It feels like every school is spending more on athletics than UMKC. CBU and GCU built new arenas and they are both investing in their athletic teams. UVU has some nice facilities and 40,000 students. Seattle has the resources and spends on basketball. You want to blame the travel or refs or NMSU basketball alleged financial advantages for the UMKC athletic plight in life. Try holding the UMKC Administration accountable for a change.
06-24-2019 01:50 PM
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dbackjon Online
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Post: #78
RE: UMKC going to Summit
(06-24-2019 12:26 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(06-24-2019 09:42 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-24-2019 08:57 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 07:35 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 07:04 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  NMSU athletics doesn't own the Pan Am. Special Events does and athletics pays them $20,000 a year to play there. VB, MBB and WBB are just tennants.

At UMKC, the players can only shoot around during 'business' hours. I guess since the gym is connected to Swinney. They can't shoot around during the evening or late weekends. Then you look around and see our weight room and even athletic offices. Big difference in Athletic Assets that operating budgets don't always show was the point I was making.

You are right. UMKC stinks, they have no money and the refs are out to get them as part of a huge WAC conspiracy. The only way to solve all these problems is to drop to a lower conference with inferior teams where you will still be a bottom feeder...

You miss the major point that if NMSU is going to be a Kenpom top 60 team, UMKC is just diddling around in the WAC like every other team and doesn't have the budget or assets to compete against a division 1 football school. Its like Pepperdine, Santa Clara vs Gonzaga. Better to save money and focus on academics.

IMO the WAC is not stable post football, because there is no competitive balance to the league whatsoever.

The main reason the WAC is not stable is because of geography. The WAC schools are too spread out for the size of their respective athletic budgets.
This is the main reason why Cal State Bakersfield and UM Kansas City are leaving a much stronger WAC (NET#16 in basketball) for the weaker but more compact Big West (NET #22) and Summit (NET #25). Travel cost for the none revenue sports is draining their respective athletic budgets.

When the WAC nearly collapsed, our Commissioner was allowing any warm body school to join the conference to just stay afloat. It was necessary at the time but it caused the WAC to have no geographic identity and high travel costs. With the addition of western schools Cal Baptist and Dixie State, Hurd is now trying to rectify that problem. Now that UMKC is leaving, it puts Chicago State on an island; with all other WAC schools residing west of the Mississippi River. With the sparseness of schools in the West, the ideal situation for the WAC's survival is for Hurd over time to locate four or five schools west of the Mississippi River who are willing to joining the conference and split into two divisions to reduce travel cost. Seattle to Chicago to Edinburg is a real large conference footprint. Hurd really needs to fill in the gaps... and it appears the most viable D2 schools reside in California, Washington, Colorado, and Texas.

Even with UMKC, Chicago State was the only WAC School not west of the Mississippi
06-24-2019 03:12 PM
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NMSUPistolPete Online
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Post: #79
RE: UMKC going to Summit
(06-24-2019 03:12 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(06-24-2019 12:26 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  
(06-24-2019 09:42 AM)RoosHouse Wrote:  
(06-24-2019 08:57 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(06-23-2019 07:35 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  At UMKC, the players can only shoot around during 'business' hours. I guess since the gym is connected to Swinney. They can't shoot around during the evening or late weekends. Then you look around and see our weight room and even athletic offices. Big difference in Athletic Assets that operating budgets don't always show was the point I was making.

You are right. UMKC stinks, they have no money and the refs are out to get them as part of a huge WAC conspiracy. The only way to solve all these problems is to drop to a lower conference with inferior teams where you will still be a bottom feeder...

You miss the major point that if NMSU is going to be a Kenpom top 60 team, UMKC is just diddling around in the WAC like every other team and doesn't have the budget or assets to compete against a division 1 football school. Its like Pepperdine, Santa Clara vs Gonzaga. Better to save money and focus on academics.

IMO the WAC is not stable post football, because there is no competitive balance to the league whatsoever.

The main reason the WAC is not stable is because of geography. The WAC schools are too spread out for the size of their respective athletic budgets.
This is the main reason why Cal State Bakersfield and UM Kansas City are leaving a much stronger WAC (NET#16 in basketball) for the weaker but more compact Big West (NET #22) and Summit (NET #25). Travel cost for the none revenue sports is draining their respective athletic budgets.

When the WAC nearly collapsed, our Commissioner was allowing any warm body school to join the conference to just stay afloat. It was necessary at the time but it caused the WAC to have no geographic identity and high travel costs. With the addition of western schools Cal Baptist and Dixie State, Hurd is now trying to rectify that problem. Now that UMKC is leaving, it puts Chicago State on an island; with all other WAC schools residing west of the Mississippi River. With the sparseness of schools in the West, the ideal situation for the WAC's survival is for Hurd over time to locate four or five schools west of the Mississippi River who are willing to joining the conference and split into two divisions to reduce travel cost. Seattle to Chicago to Edinburg is a real large conference footprint. Hurd really needs to fill in the gaps... and it appears the most viable D2 schools reside in California, Washington, Colorado, and Texas.

Even with UMKC, Chicago State was the only WAC School not west of the Mississippi

Sorry, I got confused with Kansas City's location (which is off the Missouri River) and that of St. Louis. However, the Missouri River is a branch off the Mississippi River. Nevertheless, the line of demarcation for new schools in the WAC should go no further east than the Great Plains. I used the Mississippi Rivers as a boundary initially because it is a more defined land mark than the Great Plains; which encompasses several States. I would like to used the Rocky Mountains as an outer boundary but that doesn't encompass the State of Texas; which has a lot of viable D2 candidates who could possibly join the WAC in the future.
(This post was last modified: 06-24-2019 03:43 PM by NMSUPistolPete.)
06-24-2019 03:32 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #80
RE: UMKC going to Summit
With no response from the WAC in regards to UMKC leaving, Hurd must've had no idea. Back when CSUB announced they were leaving Hurd issued a statement the following Monday:



The article has since disappeared: https://wacsports.com/news/2017/11/27/ge...e-wac.aspx
06-24-2019 06:39 PM
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