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(06-25-2020 09:59 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 09:53 AM)monarx Wrote:  If this schedule replaced VW with a P5 game at home, it would be nearly perfect. I think we should have one P5 road game and one P5 home game every year. But this schedule is just fine. Lots of interesting and challenging games. Im not quite sure there is enough meat there to get us an at large if needed, but if we win 85% of them there might be.

We aren't going to get any P5 home games until we become a reliable 1st tier midmajor again.

Not even then. Between the continued stratification between power and non-power conferences and the pivot to 20-game schedules, trying to get a P5/Big East/Gonzaga to come to your home gym requires a series of miracles. VCU is one of the better non-major programs of the last decade but the only home games with P5s that they've gotten have been against schools that hired their coach, Virginia and Georgia Tech.

All I did was ask if you could back your opinion with a fact, something do seriously lacking here as to make many of these discussions a joke. You apparently couldn't lend a fact. I at least tried with the $ component.

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(06-25-2020 02:46 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 09:59 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 09:53 AM)monarx Wrote:  If this schedule replaced VW with a P5 game at home, it would be nearly perfect. I think we should have one P5 road game and one P5 home game every year. But this schedule is just fine. Lots of interesting and challenging games. Im not quite sure there is enough meat there to get us an at large if needed, but if we win 85% of them there might be.

We aren't going to get any P5 home games until we become a reliable 1st tier midmajor again.

Not even then. Between the continued stratification between power and non-power conferences and the pivot to 20-game schedules, trying to get a P5/Big East/Gonzaga to come to your home gym requires a series of miracles. VCU is one of the better non-major programs of the last decade but the only home games with P5s that they've gotten have been against schools that hired their coach, Virginia and Georgia Tech.

It wasn't that long ago we had Georgetown at the Ted. Virginia Tech got their butt kicked there several times, UNC, Clemson.. we've had several over the years.

And everything is just as it was 25 years or so ago? What a ducking joke

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(06-25-2020 04:15 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 02:46 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 09:59 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 09:53 AM)monarx Wrote:  If this schedule replaced VW with a P5 game at home, it would be nearly perfect. I think we should have one P5 road game and one P5 home game every year. But this schedule is just fine. Lots of interesting and challenging games. Im not quite sure there is enough meat there to get us an at large if needed, but if we win 85% of them there might be.

We aren't going to get any P5 home games until we become a reliable 1st tier midmajor again.

Not even then. Between the continued stratification between power and non-power conferences and the pivot to 20-game schedules, trying to get a P5/Big East/Gonzaga to come to your home gym requires a series of miracles. VCU is one of the better non-major programs of the last decade but the only home games with P5s that they've gotten have been against schools that hired their coach, Virginia and Georgia Tech.

It wasn't that long ago we had Georgetown at the Ted. Virginia Tech got their butt kicked there several times, UNC, Clemson.. we've had several over the years.

Times have changed. Major conferences are going to 20-game schedules, and their programs are playing more neutral-site games against other big-time opponents. Anyone outside the basketball Power 6 is finding those prominent dates a lot harder to schedule.

(06-25-2020 04:15 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 02:46 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 09:59 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 09:53 AM)monarx Wrote:  If this schedule replaced VW with a P5 game at home, it would be nearly perfect. I think we should have one P5 road game and one P5 home game every year. But this schedule is just fine. Lots of interesting and challenging games. Im not quite sure there is enough meat there to get us an at large if needed, but if we win 85% of them there might be.

We aren't going to get any P5 home games until we become a reliable 1st tier midmajor again.

Not even then. Between the continued stratification between power and non-power conferences and the pivot to 20-game schedules, trying to get a P5/Big East/Gonzaga to come to your home gym requires a series of miracles. VCU is one of the better non-major programs of the last decade but the only home games with P5s that they've gotten have been against schools that hired their coach, Virginia and Georgia Tech.

It wasn't that long ago we had Georgetown at the Ted. Virginia Tech got their butt kicked there several times, UNC, Clemson.. we've had several over the years.

Yes, we were a healthier top 50 program then.

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I still don't know how we get ACC programs to come here for football and can't for MBB.

(06-25-2020 04:15 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 02:46 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 09:59 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 09:53 AM)monarx Wrote:  If this schedule replaced VW with a P5 game at home, it would be nearly perfect. I think we should have one P5 road game and one P5 home game every year. But this schedule is just fine. Lots of interesting and challenging games. Im not quite sure there is enough meat there to get us an at large if needed, but if we win 85% of them there might be.

We aren't going to get any P5 home games until we become a reliable 1st tier midmajor again.

Not even then. Between the continued stratification between power and non-power conferences and the pivot to 20-game schedules, trying to get a P5/Big East/Gonzaga to come to your home gym requires a series of miracles. VCU is one of the better non-major programs of the last decade but the only home games with P5s that they've gotten have been against schools that hired their coach, Virginia and Georgia Tech.

It wasn't that long ago we had Georgetown at the Ted. Virginia Tech got their butt kicked there several times, UNC, Clemson.. we've had several over the years.

10 plus years is a long time

(06-25-2020 08:58 PM)DaBigBlue Wrote:  I still don't know how we get ACC programs to come here for football and can't for MBB.

R-E-C-R-U-I-T-I-N-G

(06-25-2020 05:58 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 04:15 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 02:46 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 09:59 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 09:53 AM)monarx Wrote:  If this schedule replaced VW with a P5 game at home, it would be nearly perfect. I think we should have one P5 road game and one P5 home game every year. But this schedule is just fine. Lots of interesting and challenging games. Im not quite sure there is enough meat there to get us an at large if needed, but if we win 85% of them there might be.

We aren't going to get any P5 home games until we become a reliable 1st tier midmajor again.

Not even then. Between the continued stratification between power and non-power conferences and the pivot to 20-game schedules, trying to get a P5/Big East/Gonzaga to come to your home gym requires a series of miracles. VCU is one of the better non-major programs of the last decade but the only home games with P5s that they've gotten have been against schools that hired their coach, Virginia and Georgia Tech.

It wasn't that long ago we had Georgetown at the Ted. Virginia Tech got their butt kicked there several times, UNC, Clemson.. we've had several over the years.

Yes, we were a healthier top 50 program then.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

We have been a top 50 team in maybe 2 individual seasons in the past 30 years. I think its hard to call yourself a top 50 team when you are never actually in the top 50.

(06-26-2020 06:55 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 05:58 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 04:15 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 02:46 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 09:59 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  We aren't going to get any P5 home games until we become a reliable 1st tier midmajor again.

Not even then. Between the continued stratification between power and non-power conferences and the pivot to 20-game schedules, trying to get a P5/Big East/Gonzaga to come to your home gym requires a series of miracles. VCU is one of the better non-major programs of the last decade but the only home games with P5s that they've gotten have been against schools that hired their coach, Virginia and Georgia Tech.

It wasn't that long ago we had Georgetown at the Ted. Virginia Tech got their butt kicked there several times, UNC, Clemson.. we've had several over the years.

Yes, we were a healthier top 50 program then.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

We have been a top 50 team in maybe 2 individual seasons in the past 30 years. I think its hard to call yourself a top 50 team when you are never actually in the top 50.

"It's not a lie if YOU believe it"
-George Costanza

(06-26-2020 09:04 AM)Roy Munson Wrote:  

(06-26-2020 06:55 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 05:58 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 04:15 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(06-25-2020 02:46 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Not even then. Between the continued stratification between power and non-power conferences and the pivot to 20-game schedules, trying to get a P5/Big East/Gonzaga to come to your home gym requires a series of miracles. VCU is one of the better non-major programs of the last decade but the only home games with P5s that they've gotten have been against schools that hired their coach, Virginia and Georgia Tech.

It wasn't that long ago we had Georgetown at the Ted. Virginia Tech got their butt kicked there several times, UNC, Clemson.. we've had several over the years.

Yes, we were a healthier top 50 program then.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

We have been a top 50 team in maybe 2 individual seasons in the past 30 years. I think its hard to call yourself a top 50 team when you are never actually in the top 50.

"It's not a lie if YOU believe it"
-George Costanza

Not sure which one of us you are accusing of lying.

In 04-05 we were #35
In 05-06 we were #69
In 06-07 we were #40
In 09-10 we were #27
In 10-11 we were #20

And we were 129 and 103 in the other 2 which are considered decent to good years in our current paradigm

5 of 7 years in the top 100
4 of 7 years in the top 40

Yes, if you look at the numbers, we were a top 50 program at that time we were drawing P5 teams to the Ted. Put up numbers like this in successive years again and we will likely draw a few again. When that is the case, P5 teams are not hurt and their standing often improves win or lose by coming here.

https://collegerpi.com/subs/histssn.html

It depends on what numbers you use. KenPom had us as a Top 50 team in 2010 and 2011. That's it. We had a bunch of other years where we were between 50-100. And, honestly, a completely subjective look at the program, probably put us in that range. Not top 50, but probably somewhere in the middle of the next 50.

(06-26-2020 09:59 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  It depends on what numbers you use. KenPom had us as a Top 50 team in 2010 and 2011. That's it. We had a bunch of other years where we were between 50-100. And, honestly, a completely subjective look at the program, probably put us in that range. Not top 50, but probably somewhere in the middle of the next 50.

The tournament committee was using RPI at that time. They now use NET. They have never used KenPom.

A lot of teams are in and out of the top 50 year to year. The consistency of 4/7 years in the top 40 and 5/7 in the top 70, on average, I believe we were a top 50 program over the period.

Having been an avid follower of the men’s basketball program since the early 1970’s there is no doubt in my mind that our program has slipped from one with a high ceiling and trajectory to one that I would characterize as declining in stature. I do believe that for whatever reason, our decline has coincided with the move to CUSA. There are very very few mid majors that have successful football and basketball programs simultaneously. I used to think that “our” decision to move to CUSA hurt basketball in order to promote football. Now my thoughts are trending to the realization that we will never be more than mediocre in football and quite frankly the same for men’s basketball. In today’s world we will never likely hit the top 40 in basketball or top 75 in football. That’s not to say that a “fluke” year is not possible within either sport for once in a decade but I just don’t see any sustained excellence on the horizon.

Blaine Taylor made it very clear that moving to CUSA was going to be bad for basketball. Sure, at the time, he had his own issues and was trying to lay the blame somewhere, but he was definitely right.

Does it mean the move was the wrong move? Not necessarily. I wouldn't want to be here in 2020 in the CAA either.

There are actually very few schools in the P5 that are successful in both football and basketball. (I can't imagine an easier coaching job to have than Alabama Basketball). But that isn't an excuse. We should, with very few exceptions, be near the top of CUSA in Basketball. Let's hope that last year was one of those exceptions.

(06-26-2020 12:46 PM)The Doctor Is In Wrote:  Having been an avid follower of the men’s basketball program since the early 1970’s there is no doubt in my mind that our program has slipped from one with a high ceiling and trajectory to one that I would characterize as declining in stature. I do believe that for whatever reason, our decline has coincided with the move to CUSA. There are very very few mid majors that have successful football and basketball programs simultaneously. I used to think that “our” decision to move to CUSA hurt basketball in order to promote football. Now my thoughts are trending to the realization that we will never be more than mediocre in football and quite frankly the same for men’s basketball. In today’s world we will never likely hit the top 40 in basketball or top 75 in football. That’s not to say that a “fluke” year is not possible within either sport for once in a decade but I just don’t see any sustained excellence on the horizon.

An odd thing to say on a day where ODU got far and away their biggest football transfer ever, but in fairness, your thoughts (at least on this board) have always trended to this "realization."

Wilder got ODU to 10-3 and a bowl win, and while that's not the accomplishment it used to be, it's still better than mediocre, and there's no reason Rahne's teams can't do that or better. ODU's only top 25 ranking came under JJ in CUSA, and while we can and will debate endlessly about whether he can do it again or should even be given the opportunity to keep trying, it shows that at any rate, it's possible. Look at Richmond -- some of their backers paid for a Fire Chris Mooney billboard on I-95 not that long ago, and now they're in a bunch of preseason top 25 polls.

But it's true that it's way safer to believe that it's not achievable; you can exult in being right when they lose and you can hop back on the bandwagon if -- glory of glories! -- they manage to be good again. Win-win!

(06-26-2020 01:27 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  There are actually very few schools in the P5 that are successful in both football and basketball. (I can't imagine an easier coaching job to have than Alabama Basketball). But that isn't an excuse. We should, with very few exceptions, be near the top of CUSA in Basketball. Let's hope that last year was one of those exceptions.

Common misperception that basketball coaches can slide under the radar of obscene expectations at football powers. Bama fired/forced out three coaches since 2009. Shaka Smart is on increasingly thinning ice at Texas. SEC schools aren't interested in ceding basketball supremacy to Kentucky.

I do agree with your CUSA point. Just like with the CAA, finishes outside the top, say, five should be rare and attributable to a bunch of bad crap happening or everyone else getting good.

(06-26-2020 01:38 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(06-26-2020 01:27 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  There are actually very few schools in the P5 that are successful in both football and basketball. (I can't imagine an easier coaching job to have than Alabama Basketball). But that isn't an excuse. We should, with very few exceptions, be near the top of CUSA in Basketball. Let's hope that last year was one of those exceptions.

Common misperception that basketball coaches can slide under the radar of obscene expectations at football powers. Bama fired/forced out three coaches since 2009. Shaka Smart is on increasingly thinning ice at Texas. SEC schools aren't interested in ceding basketball supremacy to Kentucky.

I do agree with your CUSA point. Just like with the CAA, finishes outside the top, say, five should be rare and attributable to a bunch of bad crap happening or everyone else getting good.

Perhaps I exaggerated the ease of the position. But Alabama's basketball coaches got paid a lot of money, and then when they got the ax, no one even knew about it.