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Owl Is In Chains Offline
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Post: #1
Pitching Analytics
I recently saw a tweet where a former MLB pitcher was working with a HS pitcher. The tweet included info from some pitches in a bullpen. Included (not all listed here) were the location of the release point, speed, horizontal and vertical movement, spin rate, and more.

I know the Astros are big into this type of stuff, using it not only to identify talent but how to pitch to hitters. This made me wonder if Rice uses this, and if so, how do they use it. Can someone in the know advise if this is being used, if so how, and maybe provide some info on what equipment (and vendor) is required for this analysis? If used, is it in bullpens, games, or both? While information is good, it is equally important what you do with it.
06-17-2019 12:12 PM
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jellowl Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Pitching Analytics
Not what you're asking for, but Rob Friedman (@PitchingNinja on twitter) posts some really terrific pitching content. As someone who never played baseball, his overlaid gifs drive home how difficult it must be to ID pitches at the highest level.
06-17-2019 01:01 PM
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Musicowl1965 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Pitching Analytics
(06-17-2019 12:12 PM)Owl Is In Chains Wrote:  I recently saw a tweet where a former MLB pitcher was working with a HS pitcher. The tweet included info from some pitches in a bullpen. Included (not all listed here) were the location of the release point, speed, horizontal and vertical movement, spin rate, and more.

I know the Astros are big into this type of stuff, using it not only to identify talent but how to pitch to hitters. This made me wonder if Rice uses this, and if so, how do they use it. Can someone in the know advise if this is being used, if so how, and maybe provide some info on what equipment (and vendor) is required for this analysis? If used, is it in bullpens, games, or both? While information is good, it is equally important what you do with it.

If you have read some of my other posts you may have figured out that I'm really a fan of the new analytics in baseball. The SEC has the Trackman system in every ballpark in the SEC. Trackman will "track" pitch location, velocity, spin rate (to some degree), release point as well as batted ball exit velocity, launch angle and distance) so it is more than just a pitching tool. HawkEye is the next generation of optical tracking that MLB is going to and is way ahead of what TrackMan can do. HawkEye is used in Tennis for ball tracking etc. I also believe Hawkeye can track player movement etc. in the field.

Rapsodo is another tool that can be used either in game or in bullpen sessions that is more accurate than Trackman and provides basically the same data but is more portable than trackman (i.e. can be moved from BP to game etc.). I see this more of use as a BP tool for pitch evaluation and sequencing.

Edgertronic cameras is the best video tool available as it is a super high speed camera that actually captures where the fingers are at release point for better understanding on how the ball comes off the fingers and what adjustments can be made. FYI, the Astros have 6-7 of these cameras around MMP as well as Trackman (soon to be Hawkeye). The Astros also have these tools in all levels of their minor league system). They are way ahead of the competition as of now.

If Rice had Trackman for instance I believe any data that they gathered on visiting teams could be kept in house (i.e. would not have to be shared) until the Conference either mandated the installation or required the sharing of the data. This would be good data to have prior to the Conference tournament and for future seasons as well. Trackman is not noticeable unless you know what you are looking for. The Cape League has this at all their fields as well and the data is provided to any MLB team that requests it.

There are plenty of Rice students who I think could really sink their teeth into the data and provide reports to players and coaches on how best to utilize each players strengths.

Cost: I believe Trackman is about $15K, Rapsodo $8K and Edgertronic cameras I think about 8-10K. Rapsodo, at minimum, would be a great help to the pitchers that embraced the data and would also be a good recruiting tool for the players that see the obvious benefit. In the grand scheme these tools are relatively inexpensive for the benefit they provide. FYI, Vanderbilt has all of these systems.

Hope this helps some.
06-17-2019 02:45 PM
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Owl Is In Chains Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Pitching Analytics
Thanks for the response. Lots of info. If I understand correctly, Rice does not use any of these, which ultimately was my question. The cost does not seem crazy expensive, which would make me disappointed it was not being used. Seeing it used with high school kids made me think that the cost would not be enough to not have some type of it. I agree that using this info would be great for the development of pitchers and recruiting. I also think if Rice is not using it now, they should start soon before everyone else is using it.
06-17-2019 03:46 PM
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westsidewolf1989 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Pitching Analytics
Sounds like it's time to fire up the STRIVR system
06-17-2019 03:57 PM
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Tiki Owl Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Pitching Analytics
The use of analytics was a major point in Berkman’s proposal and in JK’s comments about the requirements for the next coach. The Athletic had a great piece on the Astros use systemwide of the systems Musicowl1965 mentioned.
06-17-2019 09:47 PM
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Musicowl1965 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Pitching Analytics
(06-17-2019 03:46 PM)Owl Is In Chains Wrote:  Thanks for the response. Lots of info. If I understand correctly, Rice does not use any of these, which ultimately was my question. The cost does not seem crazy expensive, which would make me disappointed it was not being used. Seeing it used with high school kids made me think that the cost would not be enough to not have some type of it. I agree that using this info would be great for the development of pitchers and recruiting. I also think if Rice is not using it now, they should start soon before everyone else is using it.

Agree!! Also, these would be good tools to use at the various camps Rice has in the summer and winter to further evaluate potential recruits. The data derived could be used to high grade the players that coaches would like to offer. I hope these tools are at least being discussed within the department.
06-18-2019 09:04 AM
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gsloth Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Pitching Analytics
(06-17-2019 01:01 PM)jellowl Wrote:  Not what you're asking for, but Rob Friedman (@PitchingNinja on twitter) posts some really terrific pitching content. As someone who never played baseball, his overlaid gifs drive home how difficult it must be to ID pitches at the highest level.

You mean like this Scherzer overlay from the weekend? Good luck identifying the pitch to try to put your best swing on it.

(This link has it in slow-mo, which I include below, and regular speed. https://twitter.com/PitchingNinja/status...3133944832 )
06-18-2019 09:56 AM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Pitching Analytics
Max Scherzer appears to be using some kind of real-life cheat code. That is ridiculous.
06-18-2019 10:13 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Pitching Analytics
(06-18-2019 09:04 AM)Musicowl1965 Wrote:  
(06-17-2019 03:46 PM)Owl Is In Chains Wrote:  Thanks for the response. Lots of info. If I understand correctly, Rice does not use any of these, which ultimately was my question. The cost does not seem crazy expensive, which would make me disappointed it was not being used. Seeing it used with high school kids made me think that the cost would not be enough to not have some type of it. I agree that using this info would be great for the development of pitchers and recruiting. I also think if Rice is not using it now, they should start soon before everyone else is using it.
Agree!! Also, these would be good tools to use at the various camps Rice has in the summer and winter to further evaluate potential recruits. The data derived could be used to high grade the players that coaches would like to offer. I hope these tools are at least being discussed within the department.

When Forrest Whitley pitched in a high school playoff game at Round Rock, the Astros cranked up all the evaluation tools they had in the park. They subsequently made him their first round draft choice. He's having a horrible 2019, interestingly at AAA Round Rock, but he is still considered a top prospect.

You probably know that I have pushed for Rice to get a medical school and law school as probably the best way to improve our national academic rankings and recognition. One thing I would like to see established in conjunction with a med school would be an institute of human performance. This would be a center of research into these issues and would pioneer the use of all of these techniques to enhance performance. If I had the money, I would donate funds for such an institute. I would probably name it for Ruowls, as I can't think of anyone else who better personifies what it would represent. And back when I first had the idea, my thought for a possible head would be Dr. Michael Marshall, although he's probably too old for it now.
(This post was last modified: 06-18-2019 10:51 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
06-18-2019 10:50 AM
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Musicowl1965 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Pitching Analytics
(06-18-2019 10:50 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(06-18-2019 09:04 AM)Musicowl1965 Wrote:  
(06-17-2019 03:46 PM)Owl Is In Chains Wrote:  Thanks for the response. Lots of info. If I understand correctly, Rice does not use any of these, which ultimately was my question. The cost does not seem crazy expensive, which would make me disappointed it was not being used. Seeing it used with high school kids made me think that the cost would not be enough to not have some type of it. I agree that using this info would be great for the development of pitchers and recruiting. I also think if Rice is not using it now, they should start soon before everyone else is using it.
Agree!! Also, these would be good tools to use at the various camps Rice has in the summer and winter to further evaluate potential recruits. The data derived could be used to high grade the players that coaches would like to offer. I hope these tools are at least being discussed within the department.

When Forrest Whitley pitched in a high school playoff game at Round Rock, the Astros cranked up all the evaluation tools they had in the park. They subsequently made him their first round draft choice. He's having a horrible 2019, interestingly at AAA Round Rock, but he is still considered a top prospect.

You probably know that I have pushed for Rice to get a medical school and law school as probably the best way to improve our national academic rankings and recognition. One thing I would like to see established in conjunction with a med school would be an institute of human performance. This would be a center of research into these issues and would pioneer the use of all of these techniques to enhance performance. If I had the money, I would donate funds for such an institute. I would probably name it for Ruowls, as I can't think of anyone else who better personifies what it would represent. And back when I first had the idea, my thought for a possible head would be Dr. Michael Marshall, although he's probably too old for it now.

This would be AWESOME!!! Rice could be a pioneer in this research and application.
06-18-2019 10:59 AM
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Hardball Owl Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Pitching Analytics
So much for baseball being a "kids' game"
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06-20-2019 02:56 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Pitching Analytics
FiveThirtyEight has had 6 or 7 recent articles/studies not just on pitch mechanics, but on pitchers literally designing pitches both in the off season and sometimes in season.

I just finished the book that the author of the article wrote and was touting in the article.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how...-baseball/

A recent article detailed both the influx of D1 coaches directly into the Major League level, and how these really advanced biometric/tech techniques are rapidly being taken up not just at the pro and farm team level, but straight into the college programs as well.
06-21-2019 05:53 AM
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