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Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
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cinbinsportsfan Online
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Post: #21
RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
The answer is somewhere in the middle. As others have noted, UC taking a stance of only accepting 1-for-1's from the likes of Illinois, UK, Purdue, Indiana, etc. makes sense. Exceptions should be made to allow 2-for-1's for likes of Ohio State, Clemson, etc. as long as that team can't buy out their visit to Cincinnati.

What you absolutely can't do is what UCF is attempting to pull off; a hard stance against 2-for-1's with ANY Power 5 team. That simply won't work and look at their future football schedules to see how terribly that's working. Their 2021 schedule has Louisville and NO ONE ELSE. While every other school in football is filling out their schedules, UCF is staring at upwards of 3 FCS teams to fill out their football schedule that's only two years away.

The right way to do leverage 2-for-1's is and, as much as I hate to say it, what South Florida is doing. Every year between 2019 and 2028 are loaded with P5 opponents and in several situations they've staggered the 2-for-1's such that when they're on the road playing a P5 team, they're hosting a P5 team that same season. It's not perfect but they did a nice job locking themselves into P5 opponents at home and on the road for the next decade.
 
06-17-2019 08:23 AM
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Post: #22
RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
^I can go along with this after you put it this way. And as you said, a big key here is the contract must be written such that the P5 team cannot get out of the return game to Nippert (or they can but only if UC agrees to a large payout - ~$2M-$3M).
 
06-17-2019 08:35 AM
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Post: #23
RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
(06-17-2019 08:20 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(06-17-2019 06:48 AM)Topcat Wrote:  I'm on the record as bring OK with 2-1's with the "power" 5 teams as long as their cutting a visitor's check that's worth the trouble.

I guess my sticking point is what becomes of that third date if you hold out and get that 1-1. Who are you playing in the spot that would have been the third game against the P5 ? Alabama A&M? Delaware St.? Austin Peay?

Me... I'd rather play an extra away game against a Purdue than pound my chest at what tough guys we are as we're running out of the tunnel for a home game against Towson St.

I understand what you are saying, but on the flip-side it is imperative to have at least six home games to show in front of your fans. Back in the 80s and early 90s (before CUSA) UC used to take the money and go play schools like Bama, Florida State and the U on the road for the cash. As a result they would only have 4-5 home games which I believe played a factor in limiting the number of fans we had.

Yeah, but we weren't in a conference then. We WERE beggars back then.

I think the conference provides us with stability against that.
 
06-17-2019 08:50 AM
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Bruce Monnin Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
If every G5 school agreed to stick with UCF and none of them took 2-for-1's, the P5 schools would be forced to offers home and homes.

But it will never happen. Someone (or almost everyone) would cave to the cash.
 
06-17-2019 08:56 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
(06-17-2019 08:23 AM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  The answer is somewhere in the middle. As others have noted, UC taking a stance of only accepting 1-for-1's from the likes of Illinois, UK, Purdue, Indiana, etc. makes sense. Exceptions should be made to allow 2-for-1's for likes of Ohio State, Clemson, etc. as long as that team can't buy out their visit to Cincinnati.

What you absolutely can't do is what UCF is attempting to pull off; a hard stance against 2-for-1's with ANY Power 5 team. That simply won't work and look at their future football schedules to see how terribly that's working. Their 2021 schedule has Louisville and NO ONE ELSE. While every other school in football is filling out their schedules, UCF is staring at upwards of 3 FCS teams to fill out their football schedule that's only two years away.

The right way to do leverage 2-for-1's is and, as much as I hate to say it, what South Florida is doing. Every year between 2019 and 2028 are loaded with P5 opponents and in several situations they've staggered the 2-for-1's such that when they're on the road playing a P5 team, they're hosting a P5 team that same season. It's not perfect but they did a nice job locking themselves into P5 opponents at home and on the road for the next decade.

UC's future P5 schedule isn't any better than UCF's.

UCF: 7 total future P5 games (UNC x3, Louisville x2, Georgia Tech x2)
UC: 7 total future P5 games (Nebraska x2, Indiana x2, Pitt x2, body bag game @ Notre Dame).

In fact I'd argue UCF is doing better than us because 1) some of ours were signed when we still had the cachet of a former Big East school, and 2) one of ours is a body bag game.

The only reason we've got more teams on the future schedule is that we've signed home-and-home series with Boise, MAC, and C-USA schools. Miami and Boise make sense to me, but WMU, WKU, and Ohio should be 2-for-1 or 3-for-2.
 
06-17-2019 08:56 AM
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cinbinsportsfan Online
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RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
(06-17-2019 08:56 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(06-17-2019 08:23 AM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  The answer is somewhere in the middle. As others have noted, UC taking a stance of only accepting 1-for-1's from the likes of Illinois, UK, Purdue, Indiana, etc. makes sense. Exceptions should be made to allow 2-for-1's for likes of Ohio State, Clemson, etc. as long as that team can't buy out their visit to Cincinnati.

What you absolutely can't do is what UCF is attempting to pull off; a hard stance against 2-for-1's with ANY Power 5 team. That simply won't work and look at their future football schedules to see how terribly that's working. Their 2021 schedule has Louisville and NO ONE ELSE. While every other school in football is filling out their schedules, UCF is staring at upwards of 3 FCS teams to fill out their football schedule that's only two years away.

The right way to do leverage 2-for-1's is and, as much as I hate to say it, what South Florida is doing. Every year between 2019 and 2028 are loaded with P5 opponents and in several situations they've staggered the 2-for-1's such that when they're on the road playing a P5 team, they're hosting a P5 team that same season. It's not perfect but they did a nice job locking themselves into P5 opponents at home and on the road for the next decade.

UC's future P5 schedule isn't any better than UCF's.

UCF: 7 total future P5 games (UNC x3, Louisville x2, Georgia Tech x2)
UC: 7 total future P5 games (Nebraska x2, Indiana x2, Pitt x2, body bag game @ Notre Dame).

In fact I'd argue UCF is doing better than us because 1) some of ours were signed when we still had the cachet of a former Big East school, and 2) one of ours is a body bag game.

The only reason we've got more teams on the future schedule is that we've signed home-and-home series with Boise, MAC, and C-USA schools. Miami and Boise make sense to me, but WMU, WKU, and Ohio should be 2-for-1 or 3-for-2.

In no way is UCF doing better than UC in terms of scheduling. I agree that WMU/WKU/Ohio should be 2-for-1's (at least) in UC's favor but UCF's recent strategy of only accepting 1-for-1's with P5 teams has put them in a situation where they only have 1 TOTAL non-conference opponent in 2021, 2024, and 2025 and 2 in 2020 and 2022.

If UCF doesn't bend even a little bit on that strategy, they're staring at filling out those open spots with exclusively FCS teams, which would put them in a worse position than Cincinnati and, if they found G5 teams, at best they'd be at parity with Cincinnati.

Like I mentioned, you need a strategy that's a good mix and USF seems to have done a solid job with that.
 
06-17-2019 09:09 AM
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Post: #27
RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
We've scheduled WMU, WKU and Ohio on home and home basis because UC believes it is important to schedule OOC games against regional competition, and unfortunately the likes of Purdue, Louisville, UK and WVU are not willing to go there. I do think the game against Ohio last year was a relative success. We had a good crowd, supplemented by a decent-sized traveling fan base.
 
06-17-2019 09:22 AM
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Post: #28
RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
(06-17-2019 09:22 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  We've scheduled WMU, WKU and Ohio on home and home basis because UC believes it is important to schedule OOC games against regional competition, and unfortunately the likes of Purdue, Louisville, UK and WVU are not willing to go there. I do think the game against Ohio last year was a relative success. We had a good crowd, supplemented by a decent-sized traveling fan base.

Agreed about the regional games. Although we've had a few down years and putting more winnable games on the schedule to help rebuild may have been done on purpose.

Putting regional G5 teams on the schedule could fix itself soon. If the school brings fans like ohio u did, thats awesome for us fill the stadium and build locally. We all saw tons more casual fans and opponent fans talking up that game than we normally do, and it translated into butts in seats. We'll see how W michigan/Wkentucky do. If they dont bring fans to nippert, then when we travel thousands of fans to their stadium it gives leverage for 2-1 games later.

Im no scheduler but maybe we could do some regional 2 for 2 games with a clause they sell minimum amount of tickets to their first nippert trip otherwise we cancel our second road game creating a de facto 2-1 deal. Either they bring fans and we make more money at home, or we get a 2-1. win/win
 
06-17-2019 10:30 AM
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RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
(06-17-2019 09:22 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  We've scheduled WMU, WKU and Ohio on home and home basis because UC believes it is important to schedule OOC games against regional competition, and unfortunately the likes of Purdue, Louisville, UK and WVU are not willing to go there. I do think the game against Ohio last year was a relative success. We had a good crowd, supplemented by a decent-sized traveling fan base.

I think those a smart games the schedule and the 2 for 1 is a pipe dream for UC in those cases. That said, we can and do schedule 1 for 1 against P5 teams.

Purdue did it with us already.

We have a UCLA home and home that concludes this year.

We have home and home games against Indiana, Nebraska and Pitt (in addition to Boise State). I'm pretty happy with how UC has scheduled given the challenges they are faced with.
 
06-17-2019 11:00 AM
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RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
(06-16-2019 09:23 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  We should continue to offer a home-and-home basketball series as an inducement to do 1-for-1 football games.

P5 programs with crappy basketball teams like USC, Arizona State, Mississippi, South Carolina, Clemson, Minnesota, etc would be ecstatic to get Cincinnati to come play at their basketball arena.

I agree with this - I feel that UC basketball can be leveraged more for the football discussions.

If, say, Penn State offers a 2-for-1 in football ..... try to add in the caveat that they come to Cincinnati for a one-off basketball game.

If UC is wanting, say, Toledo football to agree to a 2-for-1 ..... Toledo may balk, so offer a home-and-home basketball series.

You would need the basketball coach to be on-board with this as well, of course. But they also have more OOC games to play around with. Besides, I'm a bit tired of many of the UC basketball OOC games being buy games against the MEAC, SWAC and Southland. Even a home-and-home with a MAC team would be better (IMO).
 
(This post was last modified: 06-17-2019 12:04 PM by Nittany_Bearcat.)
06-17-2019 11:58 AM
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RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
(06-17-2019 11:58 AM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  
(06-16-2019 09:23 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  We should continue to offer a home-and-home basketball series as an inducement to do 1-for-1 football games.

P5 programs with crappy basketball teams like USC, Arizona State, Mississippi, South Carolina, Clemson, Minnesota, etc would be ecstatic to get Cincinnati to come play at their basketball arena.

I agree with this - I feel that UC basketball can be leveraged more for the football discussions.

If, say, Penn State offers a 2-for-1 in football ..... try to add in the caveat that they come to Cincinnati for a one-off basketball game.

If UC is wanting, say, Toledo football to agree to a 2-for-1 ..... Toledo may balk, so offer a home-and-home basketball series.

You would need the basketball coach to be on-board with this as well, of course. But they also have more OOC games to play around with. Besides, I'm a bit tired of many of the UC basketball OOC games being buy games against the MEAC, SWAC and Southland. Even a home-and-home with a MAC team would be better (IMO).

I believe leveraging basketball is what Bob Goin did to get us in the Humanitarian bowl in '97 to break our bowl drought
 
06-17-2019 12:48 PM
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RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
(06-17-2019 12:48 PM)cincy7718 Wrote:  
(06-17-2019 11:58 AM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  
(06-16-2019 09:23 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  We should continue to offer a home-and-home basketball series as an inducement to do 1-for-1 football games.

P5 programs with crappy basketball teams like USC, Arizona State, Mississippi, South Carolina, Clemson, Minnesota, etc would be ecstatic to get Cincinnati to come play at their basketball arena.

I agree with this - I feel that UC basketball can be leveraged more for the football discussions.

If, say, Penn State offers a 2-for-1 in football ..... try to add in the caveat that they come to Cincinnati for a one-off basketball game.

If UC is wanting, say, Toledo football to agree to a 2-for-1 ..... Toledo may balk, so offer a home-and-home basketball series.

You would need the basketball coach to be on-board with this as well, of course. But they also have more OOC games to play around with. Besides, I'm a bit tired of many of the UC basketball OOC games being buy games against the MEAC, SWAC and Southland. Even a home-and-home with a MAC team would be better (IMO).

I believe leveraging basketball is what Bob Goin did to get us in the Humanitarian bowl in '97 to break our bowl drought

That's absolutely what Goin did, which is why the basketball team played a regular season game in Boise.
 
06-17-2019 01:56 PM
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Bruce Monnin Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
(06-17-2019 01:56 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(06-17-2019 12:48 PM)cincy7718 Wrote:  I believe leveraging basketball is what Bob Goin did to get us in the Humanitarian bowl in '97 to break our bowl drought

That's absolutely what Goin did, which is why the basketball team played a regular season game in Boise.

And it was a great move for the university.
 
06-17-2019 02:05 PM
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RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
(06-17-2019 02:05 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  
(06-17-2019 01:56 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(06-17-2019 12:48 PM)cincy7718 Wrote:  I believe leveraging basketball is what Bob Goin did to get us in the Humanitarian bowl in '97 to break our bowl drought

That's absolutely what Goin did, which is why the basketball team played a regular season game in Boise.

And it was a great move for the university.

Absolutely
 
06-17-2019 02:19 PM
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RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
IIRC, didn't several P5 conferences approve non-conference games against Cincinnati and other select G5 programs [Boise St., UCF, USF, etc.] in order to improve SOS. They wanted to eliminate FCS games in particular. Maybe it was just the B1G? Anywho, this arrangement/agreement is helpful to our cause to have some negotiating power as some of you have suggested with basketball games and otherwise. Again, we have P5 home and homes scheduled every year through 2025. Let's see what BDF can do with future scheduling...
 
06-17-2019 05:17 PM
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RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
(06-17-2019 09:22 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  We've scheduled WMU, WKU and Ohio on home and home basis because UC believes it is important to schedule OOC games against regional competition, and unfortunately the likes of Purdue, Louisville, UK and WVU are not willing to go there. I do think the game against Ohio last year was a relative success. We had a good crowd, supplemented by a decent-sized traveling fan base.

What I like about the regional games - Ohio, WMU, and WKU is that I have the option of a relatively easy drive, simple overnight roadtrip to see the team in a new setting. Since we don't have any conference opponents that fit this description, I am fine with it. I frankly prefer this to an FCS cupcake.

I just don't want to see us filling our schedule with them. I remember 30 some years ago, it felt like we were continually playing some directional school from Louisiana.

My real preference would be home and homes with Louisville, UK, WVU, Northwestern, Illinois, ect. We can't always get what we want.
 
06-18-2019 11:31 AM
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RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
(06-17-2019 05:17 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  IIRC, didn't several P5 conferences approve non-conference games against Cincinnati and other select G5 programs [Boise St., UCF, USF, etc.] in order to improve SOS. They wanted to eliminate FCS games in particular. Maybe it was just the B1G? Anywho, this arrangement/agreement is helpful to our cause to have some negotiating power as some of you have suggested with basketball games and otherwise. Again, we have P5 home and homes scheduled every year through 2025. Let's see what BDF can do with future scheduling...

Yes, B1G and Big 12 did.
 
06-18-2019 11:49 AM
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RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
(06-18-2019 11:31 AM)ucbandguy Wrote:  
(06-17-2019 09:22 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  We've scheduled WMU, WKU and Ohio on home and home basis because UC believes it is important to schedule OOC games against regional competition, and unfortunately the likes of Purdue, Louisville, UK and WVU are not willing to go there. I do think the game against Ohio last year was a relative success. We had a good crowd, supplemented by a decent-sized traveling fan base.

What I like about the regional games - Ohio, WMU, and WKU is that I have the option of a relatively easy drive, simple overnight roadtrip to see the team in a new setting. Since we don't have any conference opponents that fit this description, I am fine with it. I frankly prefer this to an FCS cupcake.

I just don't want to see us filling our schedule with them. I remember 30 some years ago, it felt like we were continually playing some directional school from Louisiana.

My real preference would be home and homes with Louisville, UK, WVU, Northwestern, Illinois, ect. We can't always get what we want.

I agree completely, its great to have a drive-able road game on the schedule!
 
06-18-2019 11:52 AM
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RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
(06-18-2019 11:49 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  
(06-17-2019 05:17 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  IIRC, didn't several P5 conferences approve non-conference games against Cincinnati and other select G5 programs [Boise St., UCF, USF, etc.] in order to improve SOS. They wanted to eliminate FCS games in particular. Maybe it was just the B1G? Anywho, this arrangement/agreement is helpful to our cause to have some negotiating power as some of you have suggested with basketball games and otherwise. Again, we have P5 home and homes scheduled every year through 2025. Let's see what BDF can do with future scheduling...

Yes, B1G and Big 12 did.

Thanks for the confirmation. At my age, the memory taint always the best.
 
06-18-2019 07:06 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: Thoughts on Non-Conference Football Home and Home Scheduling w/P5 Teams
(06-18-2019 11:31 AM)ucbandguy Wrote:  
(06-17-2019 09:22 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  We've scheduled WMU, WKU and Ohio on home and home basis because UC believes it is important to schedule OOC games against regional competition, and unfortunately the likes of Purdue, Louisville, UK and WVU are not willing to go there. I do think the game against Ohio last year was a relative success. We had a good crowd, supplemented by a decent-sized traveling fan base.

What I like about the regional games - Ohio, WMU, and WKU is that I have the option of a relatively easy drive, simple overnight roadtrip to see the team in a new setting. Since we don't have any conference opponents that fit this description, I am fine with it. I frankly prefer this to an FCS cupcake.

I just don't want to see us filling our schedule with them. I remember 30 some years ago, it felt like we were continually playing some directional school from Louisiana.

My real preference would be home and homes with Louisville, UK, WVU, Northwestern, Illinois, ect. We can't always get what we want.

That's the university's preference as well-- but those schools are intentionally avoiding UC. They know putting us on their schedule actually helps improve recruiting, brand strength, support from alumni, fans, etc.
 
06-19-2019 10:15 AM
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