Illinois is a mess of a state anyways right now. (Thanks Chicagoans!)

(06-16-2019 05:35 PM)goofus Wrote:  I was not surprised to see the downstate school enrollment tumble, but I was a little surprised to see NIU's enrollment dip so much. Maybe because they are closer to Chicago. Maybe because my company likes to hire engineering grads from NIU. Maybe because they usually have a good football team. Maybe I just have a different percrption of NIU.

From what I hear from Huskies fans on here, NIU is actually too far from Chicago. It's in farmer's country and so that can be a problem because you're too far away from a lot of the population.

(06-16-2019 06:05 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Illinois is a mess of a state anyways right now. (Thanks Chicagoans!)

(06-16-2019 05:35 PM)goofus Wrote:  I was not surprised to see the downstate school enrollment tumble, but I was a little surprised to see NIU's enrollment dip so much. Maybe because they are closer to Chicago. Maybe because my company likes to hire engineering grads from NIU. Maybe because they usually have a good football team. Maybe I just have a different percrption of NIU.

From what I hear from Huskies fans on here, NIU is actually too far from Chicago. It's in farmer's country and so that can be a problem because you're too far away from a lot of the population.

It's a half-hour drive from Aurora and St. Charles. I doubt it's just a distance thing.

(06-14-2019 08:34 PM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  Wow. This caught my eye:



click on image to expand and make more readable

Remember when SIU was a basketball power? They might be in the Sun Belt, MAC or even AAC in some way had they kept it up. Now?

(06-15-2019 01:03 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  It's mind-boggling to me that Chicago State is still competing at the D-I level.

They're done. Maybe not as a school (as they knock on wood) but as a D-I program. They either are gonna have to raise the athletic fee to absurd levels or hope they suddenly get great attendance, donations and funding. Their athletic financing and student fees must be shrinking to 0.

UIC OTOH, looks to have a bright future.

(06-15-2019 09:01 PM)goofus Wrote:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardvedd...4395f35121

Why? A large part of the reason relates to the fact that college degrees are becoming less effective as screening devices, information helping employers separate the likely most productive, bright and disciplined prospective workers from others. When nearly everyone has some sort of post-secondary credential and posts high grades (because of grade inflation), a degree from Harvard or the University of Michigan still is highly respected, so their graduates mostly get decent jobs. That is distinctly less true of those graduating from less selective schools.

The imperfect but still useful College Scorecard website of the U.S. Department of Education tells us that average earnings after attending the U of Michigan are $60,100, and 90% of students do graduate (within six years). By contrast, at EMU, seven miles away, average earnings are nearly 38% less ($37,500), and only38 % actually graduate. And the tuition at U of Michigan, for the typical in-state student, is only a bit more expensive. No wonder students are clamoring to get into the schools perceived to be the best, and losing interest in less selective schools.

The basic problem is that colleges actually impart directly employable skills for only a very modest portion of the college population (such as engineering and accounting majors) and that employers hiring high paid workers feel they need someone with more than a degree from the College of Last Resort. I do not see this trend changing much soon to help the Western Illinois and Eastern Michigans of the world.

I'm learning way more these days by engaging myself into different clubs, groups and events than I ever did in high sch--I mean college. My debt, just like college, is and has slowed me down in various ways. I fell just short of a degree but would have been very useful to many companies. They always required it, or at least in most viable jobs, never mind that I'm capable and driven to do a job without a degree.

The field is level and unlike when I was growing up, more people at least see through the myth that getting a degree or even just attending college makes you intelligent or capable/willing to do a job and be competent.

(06-16-2019 07:31 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(06-14-2019 08:34 PM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  Wow. This caught my eye:



click on image to expand and make more readable

Remember when SIU was a basketball power? They might be in the Sun Belt, MAC or even AAC in some way had they kept it up. Now?

SIU got up to about 22,000 in enrollment in the 80s.

(06-16-2019 03:02 PM)Cajuns1252 Wrote:  

(06-14-2019 09:28 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  That is brutal.

Down here in Louisiana under Jindal from 2009 - 2017 we had it pretty bad, with cuts to Higher Ed most years and constant fears at the public schools - even at LSU** - of faculty furloughs, financial emergency declarations, etc. But basically none of it actually came to fruition.

This is rough weather, God bless them.


** Though never of course to their football program. In fact, IIRC, about five years ago a threat to LSU funding was quickly resolved in the legislature when some LSU admins said in the press that those proposed cuts would adversely affect football recruiting, facilities upgrades, and coaching hires. Suddenly, money was found.

Yea I love how bad LSU freaked out when they cut higher education considering they receive more money per student than any other public institution in the state.

But nothing beats the bill they tried to pass saying if you receive state funding none of the university’s athletic programs could travel more than 430 miles away from the university unless the universities names as Louisiana State in it.

Yes, that was a howler.

(06-16-2019 07:26 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(06-16-2019 06:05 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Illinois is a mess of a state anyways right now. (Thanks Chicagoans!)

(06-16-2019 05:35 PM)goofus Wrote:  I was not surprised to see the downstate school enrollment tumble, but I was a little surprised to see NIU's enrollment dip so much. Maybe because they are closer to Chicago. Maybe because my company likes to hire engineering grads from NIU. Maybe because they usually have a good football team. Maybe I just have a different percrption of NIU.

From what I hear from Huskies fans on here, NIU is actually too far from Chicago. It's in farmer's country and so that can be a problem because you're too far away from a lot of the population.

It's a half-hour drive from Aurora and St. Charles. I doubt it's just a distance thing.

NIU, SIU, etc. - getting less money from the state results in students being able to go to out of state schools for less money than many of the in-state schools. That didn't use to be the case.

(06-17-2019 09:19 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-16-2019 07:26 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(06-16-2019 06:05 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Illinois is a mess of a state anyways right now. (Thanks Chicagoans!)

(06-16-2019 05:35 PM)goofus Wrote:  I was not surprised to see the downstate school enrollment tumble, but I was a little surprised to see NIU's enrollment dip so much. Maybe because they are closer to Chicago. Maybe because my company likes to hire engineering grads from NIU. Maybe because they usually have a good football team. Maybe I just have a different percrption of NIU.

From what I hear from Huskies fans on here, NIU is actually too far from Chicago. It's in farmer's country and so that can be a problem because you're too far away from a lot of the population.

It's a half-hour drive from Aurora and St. Charles. I doubt it's just a distance thing.

NIU, SIU, etc. - getting less money from the state results in students being able to go to out of state schools for less money than many of the in-state schools. That didn't use to be the case.

Illinois State gets less money per student from the state than any other publics school in Illinois. But their student numbers haven't declined.

High-quality programs are still in high demand.

(06-17-2019 01:21 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-17-2019 09:19 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-16-2019 07:26 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(06-16-2019 06:05 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Illinois is a mess of a state anyways right now. (Thanks Chicagoans!)

(06-16-2019 05:35 PM)goofus Wrote:  I was not surprised to see the downstate school enrollment tumble, but I was a little surprised to see NIU's enrollment dip so much. Maybe because they are closer to Chicago. Maybe because my company likes to hire engineering grads from NIU. Maybe because they usually have a good football team. Maybe I just have a different percrption of NIU.

From what I hear from Huskies fans on here, NIU is actually too far from Chicago. It's in farmer's country and so that can be a problem because you're too far away from a lot of the population.

It's a half-hour drive from Aurora and St. Charles. I doubt it's just a distance thing.

NIU, SIU, etc. - getting less money from the state results in students being able to go to out of state schools for less money than many of the in-state schools. That didn't use to be the case.

Illinois State gets less money per student from the state than any other publics school in Illinois. But their student numbers haven't declined.

High-quality programs are still in high demand.

The perception may be that it's higher quality. I think any actual difference is minimal, if there is a difference.

(06-17-2019 01:50 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-17-2019 01:21 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-17-2019 09:19 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-16-2019 07:26 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(06-16-2019 06:05 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Illinois is a mess of a state anyways right now. (Thanks Chicagoans!)


From what I hear from Huskies fans on here, NIU is actually too far from Chicago. It's in farmer's country and so that can be a problem because you're too far away from a lot of the population.

It's a half-hour drive from Aurora and St. Charles. I doubt it's just a distance thing.

NIU, SIU, etc. - getting less money from the state results in students being able to go to out of state schools for less money than many of the in-state schools. That didn't use to be the case.

Illinois State gets less money per student from the state than any other publics school in Illinois. But their student numbers haven't declined.

High-quality programs are still in high demand.

The perception may be that it's higher quality. I think any actual difference is minimal, if there is a difference.

In recruiting/marketing/determining demand, perception is more important than reality.

(06-16-2019 02:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I would guess that the mess of the Illinois "directionals" is largely due to liberal mismanagement out of Chicago.

The state capital is in Springfield, where, from 2015-2018, Republican Bruce Rauner was governor and the state was almost perpetually in a budget crisis.

(06-16-2019 02:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I would guess that the mess of the Illinois "directionals" is largely due to liberal mismanagement out of Chicago.

IIRC, in the 2016 presidential election, Chicago's county provided Hillary Clinton with more than 50% of the votes she received in the entire state. So Chicago is probably far more liberal and the rest of the state is captive to its agenda, the same agenda that created the various pension and tax crises.

The fiscal mismanagement of Illinois is a shared responsibility between the Republicans and Democrats and emanates out of Springfield. There was a Republican Governor in place from 1992-2002 and the Republicans controlled the state senate from 1993-2002 and had complete control in 1995-1996. They did nothing to solve the pension issues, which is really what is killing the state. The pensions in Illinois are ridiculously generous.

Over the past twenty years, they have had two governors, one a democrat and the other a republican, end up in prison. There is a lot of corruption in the state. The 793 day state budget impasse from 2016 through 2018 made the enrollment issues at the state schools just that much worse. It was the last thing that schools like WIU, EIU, SIU and Chicago State needed. Financially, Illinois is a trainwreck and they are all responsible.

(06-17-2019 02:17 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-17-2019 01:50 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-17-2019 01:21 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-17-2019 09:19 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-16-2019 07:26 PM)Mav Wrote:  It's a half-hour drive from Aurora and St. Charles. I doubt it's just a distance thing.

NIU, SIU, etc. - getting less money from the state results in students being able to go to out of state schools for less money than many of the in-state schools. That didn't use to be the case.

Illinois State gets less money per student from the state than any other publics school in Illinois. But their student numbers haven't declined.

High-quality programs are still in high demand.

The perception may be that it's higher quality. I think any actual difference is minimal, if there is a difference.

In recruiting/marketing/determining demand, perception is more important than reality.

Yea I think that was the case here.

(06-17-2019 02:48 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(06-16-2019 02:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I would guess that the mess of the Illinois "directionals" is largely due to liberal mismanagement out of Chicago.

The state capital is in Springfield, where, from 2015-2018, Republican Bruce Rauner was governor and the state was almost perpetually in a budget crisis.

The state is still in a budget crisis. The Democrats who run both chambers of the legislature and the governor's mansion are just ignoring it. Last year's budget was in the red by $1.4 billion.

I'm a state employee, and some of the doctors around me won't accept my medical insurance because they know that the bills won't be paid on time (however they will accept the same insurance company if it's not from a State employee). My wife has some hospital bills from last September where the state still hasn't paid their share.

On top of that, there's the $180 billion in unfunded pension & retirement benefits for state employees. That's $15,000 for every man, woman, and child in the state.

(06-17-2019 02:57 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(06-16-2019 02:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I would guess that the mess of the Illinois "directionals" is largely due to liberal mismanagement out of Chicago.

IIRC, in the 2016 presidential election, Chicago's county provided Hillary Clinton with more than 50% of the votes she received in the entire state. So Chicago is probably far more liberal and the rest of the state is captive to its agenda, the same agenda that created the various pension and tax crises.

The fiscal mismanagement of Illinois is a shared responsibility between the Republicans and Democrats and emanates out of Springfield. There was a Republican Governor in place from 1992-2002 and the Republicans controlled the state senate from 1993-2002 and had complete control in 1995-1996. They did nothing to solve the pension issues, which is really what is killing the state. The pensions in Illinois are ridiculously generous.

Over the past twenty years, they have had two governors, one a democrat and the other a republican, end up in prison. There is a lot of corruption in the state. The 793 day state budget impasse from 2016 through 2018 made the enrollment issues at the state schools just that much worse. It was the last thing that schools like WIU, EIU, SIU and Chicago State needed. Financially, Illinois is a trainwreck and they are all responsible.

That is a total, bi-partisan mess.

(06-17-2019 06:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-17-2019 02:48 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(06-16-2019 02:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I would guess that the mess of the Illinois "directionals" is largely due to liberal mismanagement out of Chicago.

The state capital is in Springfield, where, from 2015-2018, Republican Bruce Rauner was governor and the state was almost perpetually in a budget crisis.

I know the capital is in Springfield, but Mike Madigan probably runs the show, eh?

FIFY. Nothing gets done without him, no matter which party is in the governor's office or controls the senate.

(06-17-2019 03:05 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  On top of that, there's the $180 billion in unfunded pension & retirement benefits for state employees. That's $15,000 for every man, woman, and child in the state.

That has happened in many places. Sadly, politicians would accept donations from public employees unions, and then vote generous pension plans that are totally out of line with the private sector **, and they would do it because they were spending other people's (taxpayers) money.

Not sure what the solution is to that.

** E.g., my brother in law was a fireman in Washington DC for 31 years. Hard and dangerous work, for sure. But he now collects a $9,000 a month pension and he's not even 60. A system that makes retiree-millionaires out of teachers, firemen, and policemen when ordinary taxpayers are getting by on $2,000 social security payments is irretrievably broken.

(06-16-2019 10:00 PM)bullet Wrote:  SIU got up to about 22,000 in enrollment in the 80s.

I wonder how much of that is due to the growth of SIU-Edwardsville, which has developed a significant following in the St. Louis area from the location and offering in-state tuition.

(06-17-2019 06:34 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(06-17-2019 06:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-17-2019 02:48 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(06-16-2019 02:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I would guess that the mess of the Illinois "directionals" is largely due to liberal mismanagement out of Chicago.

The state capital is in Springfield, where, from 2015-2018, Republican Bruce Rauner was governor and the state was almost perpetually in a budget crisis.

I know the capital is in Springfield, but Mike Madigan probably runs the show, eh?

FIFY. Nothing gets done without him, no matter which party is in the governor's office or controls the senate.

The capital of Madiganistan is officially Springfield but in reality it’s Chicago.