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This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #21
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
(06-13-2019 04:32 PM)ess Wrote:  
Quote:It's like Christ is always saying in the Bible, "Just chill. Stuff is not that bad you guys! Don't worry about it. It's fine!"

Except he really didn't say that.

He said..."look to Caesar for whatever ails you".

LOL!
06-13-2019 06:42 PM
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gobaseline Offline
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Post: #22
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
(06-13-2019 04:32 PM)ess Wrote:  
Quote:It's like Christ is always saying in the Bible, "Just chill. Stuff is not that bad you guys! Don't worry about it. It's fine!"

Except he really didn't say that.

He said..."look to Caesar for whatever ails you".

I always liked Sid. But I’d much preferred Imogene Coco!
06-13-2019 06:46 PM
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MajorHoople Offline
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Post: #23
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
(06-13-2019 02:19 PM)HaymondAtThe4 Wrote:  It's like Christ is always saying in the Bible, "Just chill. Stuff is not that bad you guys! Don't worry about it. It's fine!"

In the Bible, or on "Family Guy"?
06-14-2019 06:03 AM
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Motown Bronco Offline
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Post: #24
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
Biden needs to stick to a center-left path and not get sucked over to the AOC/Bernie fringe. He has the potential to grab a lot of independents and even some 'Never Trump' conservatives. He connects well to blue collars and can swing back places like Macomb County (and the rest of the rust belt that went Trump).

If he gets caught up in trying to "out-progressive" everyone on the Dem stage, he'll eventually lose.
06-14-2019 07:50 PM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #25
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
(06-14-2019 07:50 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Biden needs to stick to a center-left path and not get sucked over to the AOC/Bernie fringe. He has the potential to grab a lot of independents and even some 'Never Trump' conservatives. He connects well to blue collars and can swing back places like Macomb County (and the rest of the rust belt that went Trump).

If he gets caught up in trying to "out-progressive" everyone on the Dem stage, he'll eventually lose.

If this 2020 election is allowed to be clean, unencumbered and influenced by groups or countries with an agenda, I'll be shocked.
06-15-2019 12:18 PM
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ess Offline
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Post: #26
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
(06-15-2019 12:18 PM)Rasser Wrote:  If this 2020 election is allowed to be clean, unencumbered and influenced by groups or countries with an agenda, I'll be shocked.

Has that ever happened?

And

Has there been a foreign election in the last 100 years that we haven't tried to influence?
06-15-2019 12:45 PM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #27
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
(06-15-2019 12:45 PM)ess Wrote:  
(06-15-2019 12:18 PM)Rasser Wrote:  If this 2020 election is allowed to be clean, unencumbered and influenced by groups or countries with an agenda, I'll be shocked.

Has that ever happened?

And

Has there been a foreign election in the last 100 years that we haven't tried to influence?

Countries trying to overtly via illegal and corrupt means tilting our elections? I think not. Do you have examples where they have?

There are laws, numerous and detailed written since the beginning of our Republic which address that for good reason.

Have we tried to influence elections illegally and corruptly? Is that a fact? If so, then shouldn't we hold the perpetrators of those acts accountable rather than justify and rationalize it happening to us just because a few prefer the outcome....this time?
06-15-2019 01:01 PM
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ess Offline
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Post: #28
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
(06-15-2019 01:01 PM)Rasser Wrote:  Have we tried to influence elections illegally and corruptly? Is that a fact? If so, then shouldn't we hold the perpetrators of those acts accountable rather than justify and rationalize it happening to us just because a few prefer the outcome....this time?

No rationalization.

I'm just surprised at the assumed moral high ground.

Et tu, Brute?

“If you ask an intelligence officer, did the Russians break the rules or do something bizarre, the answer is no, not at all,” said Steven L. Hall, who retired in 2015 after 30 years at the C.I.A., where he was the chief of Russian operations. The United States “absolutely” has carried out such election influence operations historically, he said, “and I hope we keep doing it.”
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2019 01:22 PM by ess.)
06-15-2019 01:21 PM
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MajorHoople Offline
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Post: #29
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
June 13:

"If any public official or member of any campaign is contacted by any nation state or anybody acting on behalf of a nation state about influencing or interfering with an election, then that's something that the FBI would want to know about."

-- FBI Director Christopher Wray

"The FBI director is wrong."

-- Donald Trump
06-15-2019 01:57 PM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #30
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
(06-15-2019 01:21 PM)ess Wrote:  
(06-15-2019 01:01 PM)Rasser Wrote:  Have we tried to influence elections illegally and corruptly? Is that a fact? If so, then shouldn't we hold the perpetrators of those acts accountable rather than justify and rationalize it happening to us just because a few prefer the outcome....this time?

No rationalization.

I'm just surprised at the assumed moral high ground.

Et tu, Brute?

“If you ask an intelligence officer, did the Russians break the rules or do something bizarre, the answer is no, not at all,” said Steven L. Hall, who retired in 2015 after 30 years at the C.I.A., where he was the chief of Russian operations. The United States “absolutely” has carried out such election influence operations historically, he said, “and I hope we keep doing it.”

That doesn't answer my question one bit.
06-15-2019 02:12 PM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #31
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
(06-15-2019 01:57 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  June 13:

"If any public official or member of any campaign is contacted by any nation state or anybody acting on behalf of a nation state about influencing or interfering with an election, then that's something that the FBI would want to know about."

-- FBI Director Christopher Wray

"The FBI director is wrong."

-- Donald Trump

This right here.
06-15-2019 02:13 PM
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ess Offline
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Post: #32
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
(06-15-2019 02:12 PM)Rasser Wrote:  That doesn't answer my question one bit.

Have we tried to influence elections illegally and corruptly?

This one ^ ?

Loch K. Johnson, the dean of American intelligence scholars, who began his career in the 1970s investigating the C.I.A. as a staff member of the Senate’s Church Committee, says Russia’s 2016 operation was simply the cyber-age version of standard United States practice for decades, whenever American officials were worried about a foreign vote.

“We’ve been doing this kind of thing since the C.I.A. was created in 1947,” said Mr. Johnson, now at the University of Georgia. “We’ve used posters, pamphlets, mailers, banners — you name it. We’ve planted false information in foreign newspapers. We’ve used what the British call ‘King George’s cavalry’: suitcases of cash.”
(This post was last modified: 06-15-2019 09:10 PM by ess.)
06-15-2019 08:58 PM
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HaymondAtThe4 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
We have definitely illegally and corruptly influenced a boatload of elections. It would be awesome if the people responsible were held accountable, but I'm not gonna hold my breath. I don't think that fact at all implies that we should allow it to happen here. Bank robbers don't just allow people to freely burglarize their homes. But it is definitely worth reflecting on our history of wrong-doing (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worl...65507772). It is also absolutely worth considering that the US government was almost always meddling in elections in order to defeat really popular leftist parties. Leftist parties that often challenged US corporate domination of whatever raw material that country happened to produce.
06-15-2019 09:19 PM
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ess Offline
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Post: #34
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
(06-15-2019 09:19 PM)HaymondAtThe4 Wrote:  I don't think that fact at all implies that we should allow it to happen here. Bank robbers don't just allow people to freely burglarize their homes. But it is definitely worth reflecting on our history of wrong-doing

I never suggested that.

And didn't mean to imply it either.

I was simply commenting on the desire for a "clean election".

While pointing out that we live in a glass house.

Nothing in politics is ever clean.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2019 08:26 AM by ess.)
06-16-2019 08:05 AM
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Broncos83 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
Simply stated...President Marmalade is a joke, a criminal (“Individual #1” plus Lord only knows what else) and frankly dumber than a post. His interview on ABC with George S. was classic Trump. Lie, lie and lie some more. He knows his supporters are sucked into his cult and too stupid (yes stupid) to disobey their master. He’s a complete farce. Just an f’ing liar, plain and simple.
06-16-2019 09:02 AM
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MajorHoople Offline
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Post: #36
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
Trump's entire adult-professional life he has shown utter disregard for the law, and has used his daddy's money and the legal system itself to keep him out of prison.
06-16-2019 09:15 AM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #37
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
(06-15-2019 08:58 PM)ess Wrote:  
(06-15-2019 02:12 PM)Rasser Wrote:  That doesn't answer my question one bit.

Have we tried to influence elections illegally and corruptly?

This one ^ ?

Loch K. Johnson, the dean of American intelligence scholars, who began his career in the 1970s investigating the C.I.A. as a staff member of the Senate’s Church Committee, says Russia’s 2016 operation was simply the cyber-age version of standard United States practice for decades, whenever American officials were worried about a foreign vote.

“We’ve been doing this kind of thing since the C.I.A. was created in 1947,” said Mr. Johnson, now at the University of Georgia. “We’ve used posters, pamphlets, mailers, banners — you name it. We’ve planted false information in foreign newspapers. We’ve used what the British call ‘King George’s cavalry’: suitcases of cash.”

That doesn't make it ok for Russia to do it to us at last check, and it CERTAINLY DOESN'T MAKE IT OK for someone who's running a national election domestically to encourage and accept help from a foreign GOVERNMENT, which is the real subject and seems to be getting overlooked in this discussion, and I doubt that's on purpose.

The question I posed was, shouldn't we hold the people who do those types of ops accountable? All I got was a denial that you weren't rationalizing.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2019 10:14 AM by Rasser.)
06-16-2019 09:59 AM
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ess Offline
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Post: #38
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
(06-16-2019 09:59 AM)Rasser Wrote:  That doesn't make it ok for Russia to do it to us at last check, and it CERTAINLY DOESN'T MAKE IT OK for someone who's running a national election domestically to encourage and accept help from a foreign GOVERNMENT, which is the real subject and seems to be getting overlooked in this discussion, and I doubt that's on purpose.

The question I posed was, shouldn't we hold the people who do those types of ops accountable? All I got was a denial that you weren't rationalizing.

As stated in my reply to Haymond (above).

I never suggested or implied that anything was OK.

BTW...who are the "the people" you are referring to? The Russians? U.S. citizens?

Mueller rendered his opinion.

No?

Hence this "outrage" is (somewhat) amusing to me.

It is (nothing more than) "political theatre" .

We have this LARGE group of people (neocons and "progressives", the deep state, the MSM, others who have a personal dislike for Donald Trump, etc) who are used to getting their way.

Their status quo has been upset (likely temporarily), and they don't like it.

They are beside themselves, and they don't know how to act

Their heads are ready to explode.

Hence they cling to "Russiagate".

Longing for the past, it's the best they can do.

And before anyone accuses me of liking/supporting Donald Trump.

Know that if I were forced to vote for a new president today, I'd vote for Tulsi Gababrd.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2019 12:26 PM by ess.)
06-16-2019 12:14 PM
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HaymondAtThe4 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
Genuinely curious. Why Gabbard? What do you like about her?
06-16-2019 01:41 PM
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ess Offline
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Post: #40
RE: This treasonous cork soaker needs to go STAT.
(06-16-2019 01:41 PM)HaymondAtThe4 Wrote:  Genuinely curious. Why Gabbard? What do you like about her?

In my business, we have to "triage".

Pick out the most important stuff.

The stuff that, if missed, leads to BAD things happening.

And then make (initial decisions) and plans based upon that evaluation.

IMHO

The most important issue facing our country, the issue that poses the greatest risk to our long term (hopefully not short term) survival, is the constant and continued interventionism.

It's causing great geopolitical risk, and it is bankrupting us.

And the cost in human lives and well-being is grossly immoral.

It's why a self-proclaimed libertarian could/would vote for her.
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2019 01:58 PM by ess.)
06-16-2019 01:53 PM
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