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BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
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MWC Tex Online
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Post: #21
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
(06-11-2019 07:09 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  I could see BYU home games being on Friday nights 9/8c on ESPN2.
9/8 mst.
Sometimes 9:30 mst
06-11-2019 07:28 PM
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Post: #22
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
(06-11-2019 07:00 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Not sure why everyone blames ESPN about the Big East. They were offered a nice contract renewal and the Big East thought it could do better. Ninja Swofford basically started the collapse of the Big East. It only slipped because Wakes basketball coachSkip Prosser was looking at Pitt, and the word was leaked about ACC wanting Miami, Syracuse and BC at the time to go to 12 for a CCG. Thus stopping Prosser from considering Pitt. That is when all the dominoes started to fall.





"Oklahoma will DESTROY them...DESTROY THEM...by at least three touchdowns...AT LEAST!"

WVU beat OU 48-28

Oh and that time on College Gameday the first year Louisville joined the Big East before their game against Miami when Corso called the Louisville players Miami rejects. Miami stomped on the Cardinal at mid-field then got stomped by Louisville.

A good 8 years of that really acting like the conference should lose it's BCS bid while they had a much better track record than the ACC in BCS bowls and did just as good as all the other BCS conferences.

Lets also not forget ESPN pushing the ACC to add Cuse and Pitt.
06-11-2019 10:57 PM
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Post: #23
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
Another ESPN deal makes sense. But NBCSN in particular going after BYU football rights would be a cheap, yet very effective football move if they wanted to add more sports without too much interference of some of the other niche content they have.

NBCSN - Minimum 5 BYU home football games per year + 1 possible game on NBC or on usual NBCSN (BYUtv with same day replay) & possible neutral site game each year featuring BYU or Notre Dame on NBCSN.
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2019 01:04 AM by AuzGrams.)
06-12-2019 12:58 AM
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Yosef Himself Offline
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Post: #24
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
BYU snubbing ESPN for NBCSN would mean ESPN would snub BYU for bowl games. Without a doubt.
06-12-2019 07:30 AM
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Post: #25
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
(06-12-2019 07:30 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  BYU snubbing ESPN for NBCSN would mean ESPN would snub BYU for bowl games. Without a doubt.

Yup, ask the NHL and Big East what happens when you snub ESPN.
06-12-2019 07:38 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #26
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
(06-11-2019 07:00 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Not sure why everyone blames ESPN about the Big East. They were offered a nice contract renewal and the Big East thought it could do better. Ninja Swofford basically started the collapse of the Big East.

I was in the minority on this back in 2011 when debates raged on Big East boards, but I never blamed ESPN. IMO, then and now, the culprits were (a) the ACC, and (b) poor Big East leadership.

The ACC was the #1 culprit because they attacked the Big East by raiding it for key members Syracuse and Pitt. The ACC had long had a desire to destroy the Big East, because the Big East was one of three conferences that hemmed it in, limiting its power and money, and the other two, the SEC and B1G, were too strong to attack. So the ACC saw decapitating the Big East as its ticket to expansion in to the lucrative northeast corridor.

The ACC had attempted to kill the Big East before, in 2003-2004, when it raided it for BC, Miami, and VT. But, to everyone's shock and amazement, it didn't work. The rump Big East that added USF and Louisville somehow not only survived, but actually thrived - between 2005 - 2012, the Big East was at least equal to the ACC on the football field, and was better on the basketball court.

This was a mortal threat to ACC ambitions, so the ACC struck again in 2011, and this time, the blow was mortal and the old Big East was killed.

Big East leadership was the #2 culprit, because it had advance warning: Fool me once (2003) shame on you, fool me twice (2011) shame on me. The ACC attack of 2003 should have warned the Big East from that point forward that the ACC was a hostile force, and that moves like turning down big ESPN dollars was a bad thing, but Big East leadership interacted with the ACC as if it was peace and harmony, when in fact the ACC was just biding its time.
06-12-2019 08:29 AM
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Post: #27
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
(06-11-2019 07:00 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Not sure why everyone blames ESPN about the Big East.

Back when the 2010 realignment was going down, the Boston College AD said that ESPN told the ACC to add Pitt and Cuse.
06-12-2019 08:41 AM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #28
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
(06-12-2019 08:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-11-2019 07:00 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Not sure why everyone blames ESPN about the Big East. They were offered a nice contract renewal and the Big East thought it could do better. Ninja Swofford basically started the collapse of the Big East.

I was in the minority on this back in 2011 when debates raged on Big East boards, but I never blamed ESPN. IMO, then and now, the culprits were (a) the ACC, and (b) poor Big East leadership.

The ACC was the #1 culprit because they attacked the Big East by raiding it for key members Syracuse and Pitt. The ACC had long had a desire to destroy the Big East, because the Big East was one of three conferences that hemmed it in, limiting its power and money, and the other two, the SEC and B1G, were too strong to attack. So the ACC saw decapitating the Big East as its ticket to expansion in to the lucrative northeast corridor.

The ACC had attempted to kill the Big East before, in 2003-2004, when it raided it for BC, Miami, and VT. But, to everyone's shock and amazement, it didn't work. The rump Big East that added USF and Louisville somehow not only survived, but actually thrived - between 2005 - 2012, the Big East was at least equal to the ACC on the football field, and was better on the basketball court.

This was a mortal threat to ACC ambitions, so the ACC struck again in 2011, and this time, the blow was mortal and the old Big East was killed.

Big East leadership was the #2 culprit, because it had advance warning: Fool me once (2003) shame on you, fool me twice (2011) shame on me. The ACC attack of 2003 should have warned the Big East from that point forward that the ACC was a hostile force, and that moves like turning down big ESPN dollars was a bad thing, but Big East leadership interacted with the ACC as if it was peace and harmony, when in fact the ACC was just biding its time.

I wouldn't say the Big East didn't know the ACC was coming for it. They knew but members wanted to join the ACC. Cuse wanted to go the first time and Pitt who was the head of the negotiations team with ESPN pushed for us turning down the contract then went and used that as an excuse to leave. Sooooo i'm pretty sure no matter how strong leadership is it doesn't matter when members want out and are actively undermining the conference. ESPN was constantly trying to devalue and undermine the league. They wanted it's valuable assets in one place instead of two so they combined the assets and tried to pretty much dissolve the conference.

BC President saying out loud to the press that "They (ESPN) told us what to do." is proof enough that ESPN was a major player in moving Big East assets to the ACC.
06-12-2019 08:48 AM
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Post: #29
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
(06-12-2019 08:41 AM)MechaKnight Wrote:  
(06-11-2019 07:00 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Not sure why everyone blames ESPN about the Big East.

Back when the 2010 realignment was going down, the Boston College AD said that ESPN told the ACC to add Pitt and Cuse.

This. No matter how many times people try to rewrite the history and point to the contract being turned down (based on a recommendation by the head of the Big East's TV negotiating committee (Mark Nordenberg, the President of Pitt, who was simultaneously planning their exit)) as the primary driver, this was a well executed destruction of the Big East by ESPN with the plan to undercut the value of the Big East. While I have no love lost for the Catholic 7 finishing the job, I enjoy the fact that they went to Fox and thumbed their noses at Bristol.

USFFan
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2019 08:58 AM by usffan.)
06-12-2019 08:56 AM
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Post: #30
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
(06-12-2019 08:48 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  BC President saying out loud to the press that "They (ESPN) told us what to do." is proof enough that ESPN was a major player in moving Big East assets to the ACC.

The problem I have with that line is that the ACC had tried to kill the Big East in 2003-2004. Did ESPN tell them to do that, too?

To me, it was clear the ACC was looking for a chance to strike again at the Big East, it didn't need an impetus from ESPN. Not saying ESPN didn't say something about it, but IMO it was happening anyway.

The ACC had it out for the Big East, and for pretty clear reasons.
06-12-2019 08:57 AM
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Post: #31
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
(06-12-2019 08:57 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 08:48 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  BC President saying out loud to the press that "They (ESPN) told us what to do." is proof enough that ESPN was a major player in moving Big East assets to the ACC.

The problem I have with that line is that the ACC had tried to kill the Big East in 2003-2004. Did ESPN tell them to do that, too?

To me, it was clear the ACC was looking for a chance to strike again at the Big East, it didn't need an impetus from ESPN. Not saying ESPN didn't say something about it, but IMO it was happening anyway.

The ACC had it out for the Big East, and for pretty clear reasons.

Probably, yes. It makes business sense for ESPN to pay one conference slightly more and save on paying two conferences a little less.
06-12-2019 09:07 AM
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Post: #32
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
(06-12-2019 08:57 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 08:48 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  BC President saying out loud to the press that "They (ESPN) told us what to do." is proof enough that ESPN was a major player in moving Big East assets to the ACC.

The problem I have with that line is that the ACC had tried to kill the Big East in 2003-2004. Did ESPN tell them to do that, too?

To me, it was clear the ACC was looking for a chance to strike again at the Big East, it didn't need an impetus from ESPN. Not saying ESPN didn't say something about it, but IMO it was happening anyway.

The ACC had it out for the Big East, and for pretty clear reasons.

So using your logic, the conspirator who provides the means, method and literally the roadmap for performing an execution is not to blame for the execution itself?

And to RutgersGuy's point, why do you think ESPN wasn't involved in the first attempt at this?

USFFan
06-12-2019 09:21 AM
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Post: #33
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
(06-12-2019 09:21 AM)usffan Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 08:57 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 08:48 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  BC President saying out loud to the press that "They (ESPN) told us what to do." is proof enough that ESPN was a major player in moving Big East assets to the ACC.

The problem I have with that line is that the ACC had tried to kill the Big East in 2003-2004. Did ESPN tell them to do that, too?

To me, it was clear the ACC was looking for a chance to strike again at the Big East, it didn't need an impetus from ESPN. Not saying ESPN didn't say something about it, but IMO it was happening anyway.

The ACC had it out for the Big East, and for pretty clear reasons.

So using your logic, the conspirator who provides the means, method and literally the roadmap for performing an execution is not to blame for the execution itself?

And to RutgersGuy's point, why do you think ESPN wasn't involved in the first attempt at this?

USFFan

Exactly, given how close ESPN and the ACC are and have been it's hard to imagine they didn't at least give their blessing to the first raid.
06-12-2019 09:25 AM
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Post: #34
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
(06-12-2019 12:58 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  Another ESPN deal makes sense. But NBCSN in particular going after BYU football rights would be a cheap, yet very effective football move if they wanted to add more sports without too much interference of some of the other niche content they have.

NBCSN - Minimum 5 BYU home football games per year + 1 possible game on NBC or on usual NBCSN (BYUtv with same day replay) & possible neutral site game each year featuring BYU or Notre Dame on NBCSN.

It would need to favor more than one possible game on NBC and include a decent bowl game. BYU has 3 or 4 games that could be worthy of NBC broadcast most upcoming seasons. But, I'm not sure there are bowl games available for NBC to even bid on the broadcast rights. So, ESPN deal makes sense.
06-12-2019 09:30 AM
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Post: #35
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
(06-12-2019 09:21 AM)usffan Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 08:57 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 08:48 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  BC President saying out loud to the press that "They (ESPN) told us what to do." is proof enough that ESPN was a major player in moving Big East assets to the ACC.

The problem I have with that line is that the ACC had tried to kill the Big East in 2003-2004. Did ESPN tell them to do that, too?

To me, it was clear the ACC was looking for a chance to strike again at the Big East, it didn't need an impetus from ESPN. Not saying ESPN didn't say something about it, but IMO it was happening anyway.

The ACC had it out for the Big East, and for pretty clear reasons.

So using your logic, the conspirator who provides the means, method and literally the roadmap for performing an execution is not to blame for the execution itself?

And to RutgersGuy's point, why do you think ESPN wasn't involved in the first attempt at this?

USFFan

Because we don't have any evidence that ESPN was involved in 2003, and the ACC had plenty of motivation in 2003 (and in 2011) to try and kill the Big East anyway, regardless of ESPN's view of the matter. And, for ESPN's part, in 2003 conference media payouts were so small that it wasn't a big deal to try and maneuver something like this.

Just a look at the map during the 2000s showed that if the ACC was going to expand in power and money, it had to go north. And north was where the Big East was.
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2019 09:36 AM by quo vadis.)
06-12-2019 09:34 AM
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Yosef Himself Offline
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Post: #36
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
(06-12-2019 09:30 AM)YNot Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 12:58 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  Another ESPN deal makes sense. But NBCSN in particular going after BYU football rights would be a cheap, yet very effective football move if they wanted to add more sports without too much interference of some of the other niche content they have.

NBCSN - Minimum 5 BYU home football games per year + 1 possible game on NBC or on usual NBCSN (BYUtv with same day replay) & possible neutral site game each year featuring BYU or Notre Dame on NBCSN.

It would need to favor more than one possible game on NBC and include a decent bowl game. BYU has 3 or 4 games that could be worthy of NBC broadcast most upcoming seasons. But, I'm not sure there are bowl games available for NBC to even bid on the broadcast rights. So, ESPN deal makes sense.


If NBCSN wanted BYU and a bowl game they could bid on the Arizona Bowl but that'd just be a MWC vs. BYU bowl, which I don't think BYU would want.
06-12-2019 09:34 AM
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Post: #37
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
(06-12-2019 09:34 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 09:30 AM)YNot Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 12:58 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  Another ESPN deal makes sense. But NBCSN in particular going after BYU football rights would be a cheap, yet very effective football move if they wanted to add more sports without too much interference of some of the other niche content they have.

NBCSN - Minimum 5 BYU home football games per year + 1 possible game on NBC or on usual NBCSN (BYUtv with same day replay) & possible neutral site game each year featuring BYU or Notre Dame on NBCSN.

It would need to favor more than one possible game on NBC and include a decent bowl game. BYU has 3 or 4 games that could be worthy of NBC broadcast most upcoming seasons. But, I'm not sure there are bowl games available for NBC to even bid on the broadcast rights. So, ESPN deal makes sense.


If NBCSN wanted BYU and a bowl game they could bid on the Arizona Bowl but that'd just be a MWC vs. BYU bowl, which I don't think BYU would want.

NBC would need to somehow grab the Holiday Bowl or RedBox Bowl and somehow give BYU reasonable access to that bowl game against a P5 opponent - for instance, BYU would be eligible when we reach a certain number of wins (within 1 win of the P5 teams that are also eligible for selection?) or a top-25 ranking. Then, the Arizona Bowl v. MWC could serve as an adequate alternate destination. But, that seems like too many dominoes that would need to fall.

ESPN and access to the 16 ESPN Events bowls is the low-hanging fruit.
06-12-2019 09:44 AM
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Post: #38
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
(06-12-2019 09:34 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 09:21 AM)usffan Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 08:57 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 08:48 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  BC President saying out loud to the press that "They (ESPN) told us what to do." is proof enough that ESPN was a major player in moving Big East assets to the ACC.

The problem I have with that line is that the ACC had tried to kill the Big East in 2003-2004. Did ESPN tell them to do that, too?

To me, it was clear the ACC was looking for a chance to strike again at the Big East, it didn't need an impetus from ESPN. Not saying ESPN didn't say something about it, but IMO it was happening anyway.

The ACC had it out for the Big East, and for pretty clear reasons.

So using your logic, the conspirator who provides the means, method and literally the roadmap for performing an execution is not to blame for the execution itself?

And to RutgersGuy's point, why do you think ESPN wasn't involved in the first attempt at this?

USFFan

Because we don't have any evidence that ESPN was involved in 2003, and the ACC had plenty of motivation in 2003 (and in 2011) to try and kill the Big East anyway, regardless of ESPN's view of the matter. And, for ESPN's part, in 2003 conference media payouts were so small that it wasn't a big deal to try and maneuver something like this.

Just a look at the map during the 2000s showed that if the ACC was going to expand in power and money, it had to go north. And north was where the Big East was.

You avoided answering the first question, which was prompted by your post a few above mine that says:

(06-12-2019 08:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I was in the minority on this back in 2011 when debates raged on Big East boards, but I never blamed ESPN. IMO, then and now, the culprits were (a) the ACC, and (b) poor Big East leadership.

That aside, it's noteworthy that absence of evidence of something is not evidence of absence. And the only "northern" school they added the first time was BC, unless somehow you want to argue that Virginia Tech is a northern school...

I'm not saying that ESPN was the sole culprit. Nor am I saying that the Big East's incompetent leadership wasn't a contributing factor. But ESPN was hip deep in this, and I believe they were hip deep from the outset. ESPN also paid off the Big 12 to not expand. They have a very vested interest in limiting the number of schools they have to pay top dollar to.

USFFan
06-12-2019 09:49 AM
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Post: #39
RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
(06-12-2019 09:34 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 09:21 AM)usffan Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 08:57 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 08:48 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  BC President saying out loud to the press that "They (ESPN) told us what to do." is proof enough that ESPN was a major player in moving Big East assets to the ACC.

The problem I have with that line is that the ACC had tried to kill the Big East in 2003-2004. Did ESPN tell them to do that, too?

To me, it was clear the ACC was looking for a chance to strike again at the Big East, it didn't need an impetus from ESPN. Not saying ESPN didn't say something about it, but IMO it was happening anyway.

The ACC had it out for the Big East, and for pretty clear reasons.

So using your logic, the conspirator who provides the means, method and literally the roadmap for performing an execution is not to blame for the execution itself?

And to RutgersGuy's point, why do you think ESPN wasn't involved in the first attempt at this?

USFFan

Because we don't have any evidence that ESPN was involved in 2003, and the ACC had plenty of motivation in 2003 (and in 2011) to try and kill the Big East anyway, regardless of ESPN's view of the matter. And, for ESPN's part, in 2003 conference media payouts were so small that it wasn't a big deal to try and maneuver something like this.

Just a look at the map during the 2000s showed that if the ACC was going to expand in power and money, it had to go north. And north was where the Big East was.

And they needed assurance from their TV partner that expansion would give them the money they wanted. The ACC doesn't make any moves without checking with ESPN first.
06-12-2019 11:01 AM
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RE: BYU, ESPN closing in on a new deal
(06-12-2019 11:01 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 09:34 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 09:21 AM)usffan Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 08:57 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-12-2019 08:48 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  BC President saying out loud to the press that "They (ESPN) told us what to do." is proof enough that ESPN was a major player in moving Big East assets to the ACC.

The problem I have with that line is that the ACC had tried to kill the Big East in 2003-2004. Did ESPN tell them to do that, too?

To me, it was clear the ACC was looking for a chance to strike again at the Big East, it didn't need an impetus from ESPN. Not saying ESPN didn't say something about it, but IMO it was happening anyway.

The ACC had it out for the Big East, and for pretty clear reasons.

So using your logic, the conspirator who provides the means, method and literally the roadmap for performing an execution is not to blame for the execution itself?

And to RutgersGuy's point, why do you think ESPN wasn't involved in the first attempt at this?

USFFan

Because we don't have any evidence that ESPN was involved in 2003, and the ACC had plenty of motivation in 2003 (and in 2011) to try and kill the Big East anyway, regardless of ESPN's view of the matter. And, for ESPN's part, in 2003 conference media payouts were so small that it wasn't a big deal to try and maneuver something like this.

Just a look at the map during the 2000s showed that if the ACC was going to expand in power and money, it had to go north. And north was where the Big East was.

And they needed assurance from their TV partner that expansion would give them the money they wanted. The ACC doesn't make any moves without checking with ESPN first.

This is probably true - but I don't know if ESPN "told the ACC to raid the Big East" so much as the ACC asked ESPN "how much will you pay us if we add X, Y and Z?"
06-12-2019 12:04 PM
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