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Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
(06-10-2019 01:44 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  The 1982 was the last year for AIAW - and many of the better schools were already playing in the NCAA.

There was only a one year overlap where both organizations held a women's tournament.
06-10-2019 01:47 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
(06-10-2019 01:44 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  The 1982 was the last year for AIAW - and many of the better schools were already playing in the NCAA.

And the NCAA made the Texas women, especially basketball which had been coached by Donna Lopiano (last AIAW president), pay for staying in 1982 for years in NCAA seedings and brackets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associatio..._for_Women
"...For the 1981-82 academic year, schools were able to compete in either the NCAA or the AIAW championships. There were a few occasions when a school participated in both tournaments that year (Florida in gymnastics, 1982; Oklahoma State in softball, 1982; indeed the University of Tulsa won both the AIAW and NCAA women's golf championships in 1982). However, the battle of members had started, as schools whose men's teams were already participating in the NCAA started to integrate their women's teams. Although some schools permitted their individual women's teams to choose, most schools made the weighty decision to support only one of the two organizations. The AIAW had fought for women's rights in the Title IX battle, while the NCAA had opposed those efforts. In contrast, the NCAA was much better funded and had better access to television contracts.[8] The University of Texas, where the last AIAW president, Donna Lopiano, was the women's athletics director,[18] was one of the stronger holdouts. But when seventeen of the top twenty basketball teams agreed to enter the NCAA tournament,[19] it proved to be the end for the AIAW.[20]
<Rutgers beat Texas for the championship>

In 1982 the first Division I NCAA Women’s Basketball Tournament was held.[21] The NCAA was able to offer incentives, such as payment of transportation costs, to participating members, something the AIAW was not able to do.[21] When former AIAW powerhouses like Tennessee, Louisiana Tech, and Old Dominion decided to participate in the NCAA tournament, the AIAW tournament lost much of its appeal and popularity...."
06-10-2019 01:56 PM
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Shannon Panther Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1998?
Pitt hasn't won any team national championships. But Keith Gavin won the 174# NCAA wrestling championship in 2008.
06-10-2019 03:15 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
(06-10-2019 01:14 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  True for NCAA team championships. However, since 1949 RU won 2 national championships in sports that did not have NCAA tournaments or were not compulsive at the time. The NCAA simply ignores these.
1. 1982 AIAW womens basketball
2. 1955 USILA mens lacrosse

In fairness, the 1982 NCAA champions, Louisiana Tech, were surely better than Rutgers that year. They were #1 in the AP poll the entire year, Rutgers IIRC never was ranked higher than #7 or so.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2019 03:23 PM by quo vadis.)
06-10-2019 03:20 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
If we count ICSA, ODU has 28 team national titles.
06-10-2019 03:29 PM
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jhasting Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
(06-10-2019 12:20 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Impressive work - do you have this on a spreadsheet?

While spot checking the data, I discovered that NCAA had several seasons of boxing championships before discontinuing in 1960. I added boxing data and uploaded spreadsheet here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...p=drivesdk
06-10-2019 06:14 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
You have Denver line 166 by itself for it's 2016 Skiing championship - that should be up with the rest of theirs.
06-10-2019 06:26 PM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
Can you just re-name this thread "Which school is named Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University"? lololol
06-10-2019 08:48 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
(06-10-2019 08:48 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Can you just re-name this thread "Which school is named Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University"? lololol

Something JMU has over VT! (and not even counting FCS Football titles)
06-10-2019 09:14 PM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
(06-10-2019 09:14 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 08:48 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Can you just re-name this thread "Which school is named Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University"? lololol

Something JMU has over VT! (and not even counting FCS Football titles)

Head to head wins in many sports this year. Soccer ncaa tourney game, Softball, WBB, prob more I’m forgetting

As far as team national championships for JMU:
1994 D1 Field Hockey title
2018 D1 WLax title

We also have two 1-AA football titles, but l think the two above make a strong enough point ignoring football success.
06-10-2019 10:07 PM
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jhasting Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
(06-10-2019 06:26 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  You have Denver line 166 by itself for it's 2016 Skiing championship - that should be up with the rest of theirs.

Thanks, the source data had "Denver " for this entry and my program was not stripping trailing spaces. Updated the spreadsheet.
06-11-2019 06:22 AM
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jhasting Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
There are many posts that consider the Big Ten addition of Maryland a mistake. Most posts support Nebraska joining the Big Ten.

* Maryland ranks 4th in Big Ten in total national championships with 32 and Nebraska is 7th with 25. These are both impressive number of national championship totals for any school when the top teams of the Pac-12 are excluded.
Penn State Big Ten 55
Michigan Big Ten 45
Ohio State Big Ten 38
Maryland Big Ten 32
Wisconsin Big Ten 29
Iowa Big Ten 26
Nebraska Big Ten 25
Minnesota Big Ten 25
Indiana Big Ten 24
Michigan State Big Ten 22
Illinois Big Ten 21
Northwestern Big Ten 8
Purdue Big Ten 3
Rutgers Big Ten 2

* 26 of Maryland NC were won as an ACC member, since joining the Big Ten in 2014 Maryland is tied at second with Ohio State with 6 team NCAA national championships and Nebraska is slightly behind with 3 team NCAA nation over the same time. Nebraska has also won an additional team national championship since joining in 2011.
(2014-2019)
8 Penn State
5+1FB Ohio State
6 Maryland
3 Nebraska
2 Minnesota
1 Michigan State
1 Michigan
1 Wisconsin
0 Iowa
0 Indiana
0 Illinois
0 Northwestern
0 Purdue
0 Rutgers

Using team NCAA national championship shows that both Maryland and Nebraska were strong additions.

I parsed the last 20 seasons of NCAA tournament data to find which sports Rutgers could focus on to win Big Ten championships and more team national championships.
* Women Basketball : this was by far their strongest performing sport and comparable to the top big ten programs at Maryland, Michigan State, Ohio State and only Purdue was a national top 10 team.
* Women soccer : Also like Women Basketball where they were in the top few in the big ten with only Penn State as a national top 10 team
* Wrestling and Fencing : These were the next best sports for Rutgers over the last 20 years but there are several Big Ten national top ten teams to compete against
* Baseball : This was the most interesting, Rutgers was below average but so was the entire Big Ten. There are no national top 10 Big Ten teams in baseball and only Nebraska & Minnesota were in the top 50. Maybe this sport could be an opportunity for Rutgers to become the dominant Big Ten team?
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2019 07:36 AM by jhasting.)
06-11-2019 06:59 AM
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mikeinsec127 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
(06-10-2019 03:20 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 01:14 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  True for NCAA team championships. However, since 1949 RU won 2 national championships in sports that did not have NCAA tournaments or were not compulsive at the time. The NCAA simply ignores these.
1. 1982 AIAW womens basketball
2. 1955 USILA mens lacrosse

In fairness, the 1982 NCAA champions, Louisiana Tech, were surely better than Rutgers that year. They were #1 in the AP poll the entire year, Rutgers IIRC never was ranked higher than #7 or so.

Yes, I understand that. However, in fairness, in 1982 the AIAW was on par with the NCAA nad you never know what could happen in a one game match-up in a single elimination tournament. This surely isn't a case of NIT vs NCAA on the men's side. Speaking of which, the NIT was the superior tournament to the NCAA for MANY years, again until the NCAA compelled member schools to accept a bid. Still the NCAA official record book simply ignores that its tournament was the second choice.
06-11-2019 07:33 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
(06-11-2019 06:59 AM)jhasting Wrote:  There are many posts that consider the Big Ten addition of Maryland a mistake.

Maryland has performed well in the B1G overall, the only sport they have stunk in is football. And if the B1G thought Maryland would be good at football they had plenty of evidence from the ACC that they wouldn't.

Outside of football, Maryland has been a very solid competitor in B1G athletics. IIRC they have won something like 30 B1G championships and 5 national championships in their six years in the B1G.

Totally unlike Rutgers.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2019 08:38 AM by quo vadis.)
06-11-2019 08:38 AM
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DavidSt Online
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Post: #35
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
If you look at schools that won titles before the NCAA started sponsoring sports, and schools went into Ds? Schools from G5, 1AAA, FCS, D2, D3, NAIA, JCs and Independent schools like Dine winning in Archery over P5 schools makes some of these P5 look weak who never won.
06-11-2019 01:31 PM
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jhasting Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
Looking at the current conferences, Pac-12 is far ahead with 543 total team NCAA national championships. Colorado & Utah contribute 50 total team championships, so the old Pac-10 would still have 138 more championships than 2nd place 14 member Big Ten at 355.

ACC top school : North Carolina 44 Conference total NC : 193
Big 12 top school : Oklahoma State 52 Conference total NC : 196
Big Ten top school : Penn State 55 Conference total NC : 355
Pac 12 top school : Stanford 124 Conference total NC : 543
SEC top school : Arkansas 49 Conference total NC : 262
06-11-2019 01:54 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
(06-11-2019 07:33 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 03:20 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 01:14 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  True for NCAA team championships. However, since 1949 RU won 2 national championships in sports that did not have NCAA tournaments or were not compulsive at the time. The NCAA simply ignores these.
1. 1982 AIAW womens basketball
2. 1955 USILA mens lacrosse

In fairness, the 1982 NCAA champions, Louisiana Tech, were surely better than Rutgers that year. They were #1 in the AP poll the entire year, Rutgers IIRC never was ranked higher than #7 or so.

Yes, I understand that. However, in fairness, in 1982 the AIAW was on par with the NCAA nad you never know what could happen in a one game match-up in a single elimination tournament. This surely isn't a case of NIT vs NCAA on the men's side. Speaking of which, the NIT was the superior tournament to the NCAA for MANY years, again until the NCAA compelled member schools to accept a bid. Still the NCAA official record book simply ignores that its tournament was the second choice.

Well, before Rutgers could play LA-Tech in a final and maybe get a one-off fluke win, they'd have to earn their way there. Wiki says that in 1982, only three of the AP top 20 teams played in the AIAW tournament, whereas 17, including the top 4, played in the NCAA tournament. There's just no comparing the achievements in winning those respective events. Sad, because the AIAW took women's hoops seriously before anyone else did. IIRC, the AIAW sued the NCAA that year for monopoly practices, and probably should have won.

Getting back to your original point, I don't see a problem with the NCAA ignoring AIAW or any other championships not sanctioned by the NCAA. That's like expecting the NBA or NFL to acknowledge basketball or football championships won in other leagues. It's just not relevant to them.

So e.g., there are no NCAA women's hoops champions before 1982, and there are no NCAA division I football champions, ever to this day.

Now of course that doesn't mean *we* have to, or should, ignore them, as we are not the NCAA. So definitely, AIAW titles won in 1981 and before should be fully recognized as national champions by us.

But if it makes you feel better, on page 5 of the 2018 NCAA Women's Basketball Record Book, you can find a list of all the AIAW national champions, including Rutgers in 1982:

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/w_basketba...9/AIAW.pdf
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2019 02:20 PM by quo vadis.)
06-11-2019 02:09 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
(06-11-2019 02:09 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-11-2019 07:33 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 03:20 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 01:14 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  True for NCAA team championships. However, since 1949 RU won 2 national championships in sports that did not have NCAA tournaments or were not compulsive at the time. The NCAA simply ignores these.
1. 1982 AIAW womens basketball
2. 1955 USILA mens lacrosse

In fairness, the 1982 NCAA champions, Louisiana Tech, were surely better than Rutgers that year. They were #1 in the AP poll the entire year, Rutgers IIRC never was ranked higher than #7 or so.

Yes, I understand that. However, in fairness, in 1982 the AIAW was on par with the NCAA nad you never know what could happen in a one game match-up in a single elimination tournament. This surely isn't a case of NIT vs NCAA on the men's side. Speaking of which, the NIT was the superior tournament to the NCAA for MANY years, again until the NCAA compelled member schools to accept a bid. Still the NCAA official record book simply ignores that its tournament was the second choice.

Well, before Rutgers could play LA-Tech in a final and maybe get a one-off fluke win, they'd have to earn their way there. Wiki says that in 1982, only three of the AP top 20 teams played in the AIAW tournament, whereas 17, including the top 4, played in the NCAA tournament. There's just no comparing the achievements in winning those respective events. Sad, because the AIAW took women's hoops seriously before anyone else did. IIRC, the AIAW sued the NCAA that year for monopoly practices, and probably should have won.

Getting back to your original point, I don't see a problem with the NCAA ignoring AIAW or any other championships not sanctioned by the NCAA. That's like expecting the NBA or NFL to acknowledge basketball or football championships won in other leagues. It's just not relevant to them.

So e.g., there are no NCAA women's hoops champions before 1982, and there are no NCAA division I football champions, ever to this day.

Now of course that doesn't mean *we* have to, or should, ignore them, as we are not the NCAA. So definitely, AIAW titles won in 1981 and before should be fully recognized as national champions by us.

But if it makes you feel better, on page 5 of the 2018 NCAA Women's Basketball Record Book, you can find a list of all the AIAW national champions, including Rutgers in 1982:

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/w_basketba...9/AIAW.pdf

Not True

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06-11-2019 02:30 PM
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jhasting Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
Current D1 Conferences where every teams has won at least 1 NCAA NC:

Big Ten
Ivy League
Pac 12

If Mississippi state wins college world series then SEC will join the list.
06-11-2019 02:45 PM
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msm96wolf Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Which P5 schools have won zero team NCAA national championships since 1869?
Finally, gets NCSU off the list. Just hope I can get to see one more type of NCAA Championship before I get to visit with Stormin Norman and Coach V. 03-wink
06-11-2019 03:07 PM
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