The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(06-06-2019 12:52 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 10:47 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 10:28 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 08:54 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 07:33 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  No way, this is good for the little guys. The P5 has figured out the 3Pt game and it no longer helps us when they are shooting it better and with more frequency. I saw somewhere that this last tournament had the best 3pt shooting in history and the only mid-major team in the Sweet 16 was Gonzaga.

P5 teams figured out that the 3 point line was a critical aspect of being efficient on offense. It may have been an equalizer for a short period of time, but people caught on quick.


But, it's not just the 3 point line. The game is less physical than its ever been because teams know the key to scoring is spreading the floor. PNR, having all 5 guys on offense that can move. Spreading the floor opened up driving lanes for drives/fouls. This is a completely different game than it was in the 80s when you threw it in the paint to Ewing because teams have realized that even the best players at posting up are not that efficient. You just cant play good offense with Porter/Brandan Stith playing together along the frontline. And on defense if you are playing a mobile 4, they are going to get a ton of open looks outside the paint.

Defensively this might actually help us a lot. We are very good at crowding the paint and cutting off straight line drives. Makes it harder for teams to make 3s vs. us.

I am not sure it helps teams like ODU and UVA on the defensive end. The deeper three point line will force defenders to push out deeper and make it harder to clog things up inside the 3 pt line. At the same time, I don't think the extra distance is enough to make much difference for most guys who shoot the 3 regularly.

I don't know that it's going to cause teams to guard out further. If they were already guarding to 22 feet, then how does it change? Defenses didn't just stop guarding at the 3 point line.

It won't make a huge impact, but it will decrease 3 point accuracy somewhat. And what was previously a 3 will now be an awful, inefficient 2 point attempt.

Anyway you spin it Giles, ODU typically has not been a stellar 3 point shooting team in the Jones era. Moving the line out farther is not likely to make us better at it. Jeff stated after the end of last season that ODU needed to improve its post presence. I take him at his word on that, and also 100% agree with his statement.

The team didn't have the same offensive post production last season that they did the previous one with Porter. In games where BJ struggled offensively, the team tended to struggle offensively. Throw in the on again, off again, that we got with Caver offensively and it is no wonder why ODU was inconsistent offensively throughout the year. When they were on then things usually went well, but it wasn't that often that they were both on at the same time which resulted in most games being close because the team's defense could more often than not keep them in it.

We need a good post presence to keep teams honest on defense. If they protect the 3 point line, we burn them in the post. If they crowd the hoop then we kick out for jumpers or pump fakes and drives. We need to be well rounded not one dimensional. Last year we were very one dimensional and had few offensive weapons.

(06-06-2019 02:09 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 12:52 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 10:47 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 10:28 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 08:54 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  P5 teams figured out that the 3 point line was a critical aspect of being efficient on offense. It may have been an equalizer for a short period of time, but people caught on quick.


But, it's not just the 3 point line. The game is less physical than its ever been because teams know the key to scoring is spreading the floor. PNR, having all 5 guys on offense that can move. Spreading the floor opened up driving lanes for drives/fouls. This is a completely different game than it was in the 80s when you threw it in the paint to Ewing because teams have realized that even the best players at posting up are not that efficient. You just cant play good offense with Porter/Brandan Stith playing together along the frontline. And on defense if you are playing a mobile 4, they are going to get a ton of open looks outside the paint.

Defensively this might actually help us a lot. We are very good at crowding the paint and cutting off straight line drives. Makes it harder for teams to make 3s vs. us.

I am not sure it helps teams like ODU and UVA on the defensive end. The deeper three point line will force defenders to push out deeper and make it harder to clog things up inside the 3 pt line. At the same time, I don't think the extra distance is enough to make much difference for most guys who shoot the 3 regularly.

I don't know that it's going to cause teams to guard out further. If they were already guarding to 22 feet, then how does it change? Defenses didn't just stop guarding at the 3 point line.

It won't make a huge impact, but it will decrease 3 point accuracy somewhat. And what was previously a 3 will now be an awful, inefficient 2 point attempt.

Anyway you spin it Giles, ODU typically has not been a stellar 3 point shooting team in the Jones era. Moving the line out farther is not likely to make us better at it. Jeff stated after the end of last season that ODU needed to improve its post presence. I take him at his word on that, and also 100% agree with his statement.

The team didn't have the same offensive post production last season that they did the previous one with Porter. In games where BJ struggled offensively, the team tended to struggle offensively. Throw in the on again, off again, that we got with Caver offensively and it is no wonder why ODU was inconsistent offensively throughout the year. When they were on then things usually went well, but it wasn't that often that they were both on at the same time which resulted in most games being close because the team's defense could more often than not keep them in it.

We need a good post presence to keep teams honest on defense. If they protect the 3 point line, we burn them in the post. If they crowd the hoop then we kick out for jumpers or pump fakes and drives. We need to be well rounded not one dimensional. Last year we were very one dimensional and had few offensive weapons.

That's about all that I am saying as well. If you don't have a legitimate post scoring threat then teams can concentrate on the outside shots more than they could otherwise. Besides, when have we ever had a consistent 60%+ shooter from the arc ... never. We have however had 60%+ shooters from the post. When you need a basket in a close game that is where those teams like to go if they have that.

(06-06-2019 01:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  People always says Jones has an inside/out offense. When have we ever consistently thrown the ball in the post? We didn't with Arledge, we didn't with Porter, and we certainly didn't with Robinson/Dickens/Ezikpe.

Our offense has always been very guard oriented.

Here are our leaders in attempts per possession:

14- Bacote/Batten/Mosely
15- Freeman/Arledge (mostly outside)/Mosely
16- Freeman/Bacote/Talley
17- Talley/BJ/Haynes
18- Haynes/BJ/Porter (Caver/Porter essentially equal)
19- BJ/Caver/Godwin/Kithcart

Our offense is always guard oriented. They run guards/BJ off the wings into the triple threat position. With Caver, they added more pick in roll to get him more involved. They have never thrown in inside a lot.

You do realize that a team can work the offense from the inside out without that meaning the post player took the majority of the shots don't you? If a team has a meaningful post presence then the other team is going to work harder to deny that entry pass and will often double it when it comes. If a team doesn't have that then they won't concern themselves with it nearly as much - to the detriment of the outside shooters.

To act like ODU's offense on many trips down the court didn't first look into the post to Porter is simply wrong. Those times frequently coincided to times where ODU needed a basket that trip down the floor. We've seen too many nights where ODU was throwing up bricks and air balls from outside the arc resulting in a shooting percentage of somewhere in the low 20's (or worse) for a half. That is some ugly offensive basketball when it is not the type of game the team is designed to play.

I do realize that. I also know we dont throw the ball in the post very often.

This is good news. It makes it more difficult for ****** teams to steal wins from better opponents.

(06-06-2019 07:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  I do realize that. I also know we dont throw the ball in the post very often.

LOL. OK.

JJ weighs in.