https://slate.com/culture/2019/06/mvp-ma...swing.html

It'll be interesting to see how pitchers respond to this revolution. I can't imagine the juiced ball going away any time soon. The MLB probably loves that so many AB's end up in either HR's or strikeouts. Both are exciting results.

The way the pitchers will adjust is to messed with their angles and planes. That means less fastballs and balls that move in a linear plane. That means a potential rise in junkballers like Jamie Moyer. The other combat is throw harder and faster where they just cant keep up a swing (which you are already seeing more of). This will lead to shorter outings and pitchers who throw hard and more bullpen games to mix up familiarity.

(06-06-2019 09:42 AM)dan10 Wrote:  The way the pitchers will adjust is to messed with their angles and planes. That means less fastballs and balls that move in a linear plane. That means a potential rise in junkballers like Jamie Moyer. The other combat is throw harder and faster where they just cant keep up a swing (which you are already seeing more of). This will lead to shorter outings and pitchers who throw hard and more bullpen games to mix up familiarity.

More pen games are already there. It's rare to see pitchers go 7 now adays even when things are going well. Drives me crazy watching managers over manage the pen

(06-06-2019 09:45 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 09:42 AM)dan10 Wrote:  The way the pitchers will adjust is to messed with their angles and planes. That means less fastballs and balls that move in a linear plane. That means a potential rise in junkballers like Jamie Moyer. The other combat is throw harder and faster where they just cant keep up a swing (which you are already seeing more of). This will lead to shorter outings and pitchers who throw hard and more bullpen games to mix up familiarity.

More pen games are already there. It's rare to see pitchers go 7 now adays even when things are going well. Drives me crazy watching managers over manage the pen

Is it over managing? Or is it saving arms and cutting down on Tommy John surgeries?

(06-06-2019 11:31 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 09:45 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 09:42 AM)dan10 Wrote:  The way the pitchers will adjust is to messed with their angles and planes. That means less fastballs and balls that move in a linear plane. That means a potential rise in junkballers like Jamie Moyer. The other combat is throw harder and faster where they just cant keep up a swing (which you are already seeing more of). This will lead to shorter outings and pitchers who throw hard and more bullpen games to mix up familiarity.

More pen games are already there. It's rare to see pitchers go 7 now adays even when things are going well. Drives me crazy watching managers over manage the pen

Is it over managing? Or is it saving arms and cutting down on Tommy John surgeries?

I can speak to the case of the Yankees because that's what i watch closely and can tell you it's 100% over managing. Their pen first/second half splits the last 5 years have been terrible because by July They have 4 or 5 guys in their pen that are in the top 10 for appearances and have logged more IP than anyone else in the league. Because of that, they wear down. There has to be a balance. There has been a number of occasions this year where Baboone has yanked a SP in the 5th who was cruising and had only pitched 80 or so pitches.

(06-06-2019 11:51 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 11:31 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 09:45 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 09:42 AM)dan10 Wrote:  The way the pitchers will adjust is to messed with their angles and planes. That means less fastballs and balls that move in a linear plane. That means a potential rise in junkballers like Jamie Moyer. The other combat is throw harder and faster where they just cant keep up a swing (which you are already seeing more of). This will lead to shorter outings and pitchers who throw hard and more bullpen games to mix up familiarity.

More pen games are already there. It's rare to see pitchers go 7 now adays even when things are going well. Drives me crazy watching managers over manage the pen

Is it over managing? Or is it saving arms and cutting down on Tommy John surgeries?

I can speak to the case of the Yankees because that's what i watch closely and can tell you it's 100% over managing. Their pen first/second half splits the last 5 years have been terrible because by July They have 4 or 5 guys in their pen that are in the top 10 for appearances and have logged more IP than anyone else in the league. Because of that, they wear down. There has to be a balance. There has been a number of occasions this year where Baboone has yanked a SP in the 5th who was cruising and had only pitched 80 or so pitches.

I was talking college. It seems that we may be getting less arm problems by not extending innings with starters. Actually, a number of our pitchers in the recent past have arrived on campus with arm problems from being overused in high school and legion ball.

(06-06-2019 12:09 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 11:51 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 11:31 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 09:45 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 09:42 AM)dan10 Wrote:  The way the pitchers will adjust is to messed with their angles and planes. That means less fastballs and balls that move in a linear plane. That means a potential rise in junkballers like Jamie Moyer. The other combat is throw harder and faster where they just cant keep up a swing (which you are already seeing more of). This will lead to shorter outings and pitchers who throw hard and more bullpen games to mix up familiarity.

More pen games are already there. It's rare to see pitchers go 7 now adays even when things are going well. Drives me crazy watching managers over manage the pen

Is it over managing? Or is it saving arms and cutting down on Tommy John surgeries?

I can speak to the case of the Yankees because that's what i watch closely and can tell you it's 100% over managing. Their pen first/second half splits the last 5 years have been terrible because by July They have 4 or 5 guys in their pen that are in the top 10 for appearances and have logged more IP than anyone else in the league. Because of that, they wear down. There has to be a balance. There has been a number of occasions this year where Baboone has yanked a SP in the 5th who was cruising and had only pitched 80 or so pitches.

I was talking college. It seems that we may be getting less arm problems by not extending innings with starters. Actually, a number of our pitchers in the recent past have arrived on campus with arm problems from being overused in high school and legion ball.

Fair points. I know they do get over used for sure at HS and legion. Plus, they are throwing junk at much younger ages which doesn't help

(06-06-2019 12:34 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 12:09 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 11:51 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 11:31 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 09:45 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  More pen games are already there. It's rare to see pitchers go 7 now adays even when things are going well. Drives me crazy watching managers over manage the pen

Is it over managing? Or is it saving arms and cutting down on Tommy John surgeries?

I can speak to the case of the Yankees because that's what i watch closely and can tell you it's 100% over managing. Their pen first/second half splits the last 5 years have been terrible because by July They have 4 or 5 guys in their pen that are in the top 10 for appearances and have logged more IP than anyone else in the league. Because of that, they wear down. There has to be a balance. There has been a number of occasions this year where Baboone has yanked a SP in the 5th who was cruising and had only pitched 80 or so pitches.

I was talking college. It seems that we may be getting less arm problems by not extending innings with starters. Actually, a number of our pitchers in the recent past have arrived on campus with arm problems from being overused in high school and legion ball.

Fair points. I know they do get over used for sure at HS and legion. Plus, they are throwing junk at much younger ages which doesn't help

HS coaches are notorious for overuse when it comes to pitchers. NC now has the pitch count and that might make it worse. THey now tend to run the starter up to 105 under the premise that is a safe number for 16-18 yr old kids. There also is no build up to 105 during the bad weather part of the season. At least legion ball is played in warm weather. Legion ball is also basically a thing of the past for top players,tends to be guys who are just not that good or have committed early. There is virtually no scouting going on at legion games when compared to PG or even PBR events.

(06-06-2019 09:45 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(06-06-2019 09:42 AM)dan10 Wrote:  The way the pitchers will adjust is to messed with their angles and planes. That means less fastballs and balls that move in a linear plane. That means a potential rise in junkballers like Jamie Moyer. The other combat is throw harder and faster where they just cant keep up a swing (which you are already seeing more of). This will lead to shorter outings and pitchers who throw hard and more bullpen games to mix up familiarity.

More pen games are already there. It's rare to see pitchers go 7 now adays even when things are going well. Drives me crazy watching managers over manage the pen

Agreed, that is why these things are happening in my opinion. Pitchers and managers alike are adjusting to "launch angles" being forced upon them. Changing familiarity is more important than ever as is changing what the linear planes look like based on how people are swinging. It is all a balance.

I have long contended that high school age pitchers can be dangerously overworked. Consider a young hs pitcher that is also playing for a "travel team" during the season. The pitcher may get his limit of use during the week & also on the weekend - while the two seasons overlap. At one time in NC, if you played on a school team you were not allowed to play or practice for a non-school team. Personally, I would like to see that rule put back into effect.

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I was watching some CWS action the other day, and the commentators talked about how one of the players for Michigan decided to forego Summer Ball last year to just spend a lot of time in the weight room and re-shape his body. He ended up getting his draft stock boosted to the first round. Andrew Benintendi did that when he was in college as well, and was also a 1st rounder.

That could be a new trend, primarily among the P5's, especially with everybody trying to hit those juiced balls out of the stadium. Summer Ball makes sense for pitchers and guys from smaller schools trying to make names for themselves, but isn't for everybody.

(06-10-2019 09:39 AM)Proff Wrote:  I have long contended that high school age pitchers can be dangerously overworked. Consider a young hs pitcher that is also playing for a "travel team" during the season. The pitcher may get his limit of use during the week & also on the weekend - while the two seasons overlap. At one time in NC, if you played on a school team you were not allowed to play or practice for a non-school team. Personally, I would like to see that rule put back into effect.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

The travel baseball season for the most part does not overlap with the high season-at least not in the south or west. The travel teams have worked this out to optimize the number of available players. Most travel teams have coaches who have played at a high level and don't overuse the pitchers. The majority of overuse is at the high school level with guys just trying to win games that could careless about a players future in the game. High school games are frequently played in bad weather early in the season and most injuries to pitchers happen early on. The pitch count should be monitored closely during this time but again the coach just wants to win.