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Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
(06-02-2019 10:00 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 06:56 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 06:31 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 05:13 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  It made sense at the time for what it was

Remember: at the time, the PAC was a Fox property and if the original group the PAC wanted (Colorado, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Texas and the two political tagalongs) had passed then suddenly Fox is in control of almost all major college FB west of The Mississippi

ESPN saw the chance to stop this with what was essentially a bribe for UT to stay in the B12.

Yes it’s a money loser but it was also a loss leader to prevent a potentially disastrous scenario for them

2 political tagalongs?? TCU needs the Big 12 to survive or they will be left behind. I'm pretty certain the PAC, SEC and Big 10 won't invite them if the Big 12 dissolves.


The truth is Larry Scott flew to Lubbock with an invitation to join the PAC. If Tech was a political tagalong, Larry Scott would have hand delivered our invitation to the UT brass in Austin.
https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregon...ac-10.html

The state of Texas has 3 schools (UT, Tech and A&M) who belong in a power conference.

Just for the amusement of the board, please list for us all the power conferences that would take mighty Texas Tech alone, by itself and not as a required package deal of other schools to get the school(s) they really want

Just for amusement, please list for us all the power conferences that would take a small private school in Ft. Worth? Texas Tech is the best option based on our fan support. No one else comes close and no one has had the success in spring sports over the last 2 years in Texas. Fix football and aggy will be an afterthought

Tech basketball ---2 Elite 8 and a national championship appearances
Tech Baseball--- hosting a super for the 4th time in 5 years with a trip to Omaha on the line.

Aggy basketball/baseball is done during Sweet 16/Super Regionals and Arkansas should kill tcu's dreams soon. Go Arkansas

I know you intended this as flame bait for 10th Mountain, but I can answer your question. Try the ACC. Crazy as it sounds, I'm pretty sure that the ACC would give TCU an invite should the Big 12 dissolve.
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2019 11:32 AM by DawgNBama.)
06-03-2019 11:32 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
(06-02-2019 01:33 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I'm going to say no. I think when the original LHN deal runs its course they should low ball Texas on the renewal deal and present the counter offer of going to the SEC, where ESPN already has a T3 deal in place, with TTU as a companion, and the LHN will be converted to SECN2.

I just don't think it makes financial sense for the Mouse to pay what they pay the Big 12 for T1 and T2 and then an absorbed amount for Texas T3 and their own dedicated channel that has very little live content. Outside of Texas and Oklahoma, there really isn't much premiere content to attract viewers.

What do the rest of you think will happen when the B12 GOR runs out and the LHN is up for renewal?

The LHN runs through 2030-31 season (June 30th 2031), six years past the B12 GOR expiration on June 30th, 2025 (after the 2024-25 season). There is no "out" for ESPN. So they would have to buyout the remaining contract, which has both a monetary transfer as well as agreement to provide to Texas through the end of the contract the equipment (as technology changes) to run a modern digital network, reportedly that is also quite high. Yes the contract is a disaster for ESPN, but fortunately it's a rounding error for the company annually.

So how much would it cost to buy out? A quick look at the payout tables, which is easy spreadsheet math to calculate, we see this

PHP Code:
Payout +3per year        Year
$10,883,665         2011-12
$11,237,384         2012-13
$11,602,599         2013-14
$11,979,684         2014-15
$12,369,023         2015-16
$12,771,017         2016-17
$13,186,075         2017-18
$13,614,622         2018-19
$14,057,097         2019-20
$14,513,953         2020-21
$14,985,656         2021-22
$15,472,690         2022-23
$15,975,553         2023-24
$16,494,758         2024-25
$17,030,838         2025-26
$17,584,340         2026-27
$18,155,831         2027-28
$18,745,895         2028-29
$19,355,137         2029-30
$19,984,179         2030-31 

To date ESPN has paid out $97,644,068, with the 2018-19 payout being $13,614,622.

The cost of the remaining payment is $202,355,927, which would be a good estimate of your buyout cost today. Mind you the negotiated payment, which could be in annual installments may be quite a bit less, given it Texas would be joining an existing conference digital network as replacement, such as BTN or SECtv, but they would definitely require a plus settlement that would clear them a nice additional revenue to what they would get from those other networks (BTN, they would certainly want the initial 6 year buy in paid in full by the settlement and still a few extra $million for the school).

In 2025 the remaining payments will drop to $110,856,220, as there will only be six years left (average payout $18,476,037). What the settlement price for that would be is unclear. But it would not be a devastating blow to the bottom line, given the $Billions ESPN is committed to payout for college sports anyway.

IMO by 2025 the contract will be in it's wind down stages and almost 2/3rds of the $300M already sunk. If the buyout is say 60% of the remaining money due --releasing Texas to join the B1G or SEC networks-- with half the money paid up front, and half on 6 annual installments, then you are looking at maybe $35M up front and $6M per year for 6 years to close the books. Texas will also want out, so they can have full equity in the B1G (they'll pay up front, using settlement) or be in the same network as the SEC. Either way both parties have incentive to settle. The money left to be paid by that time is not insurmountable.

But before 2025 there is no incentive for either side to settle. The B12 schools 3rd tier rights are under contract until then [1]. Their is no opportunity to build a real B12 Network, as OU and Texas have their own deals, and the little 8 are under ESPN with simply a branding label.

The LHN contract is still less per year than the little 8 deal. So it's not make or break for ESPN.

[1] OU will need a bridge contract for 3rd tier rights the final three seasons, but there is huge incentive for FOX and BTN to extend the contract for three years.
06-03-2019 12:56 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
(06-02-2019 05:27 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 05:23 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 04:47 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 03:21 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  The LHN will fold. There just isn't enough content on the network to justify the money espn is doling out. If espn had half a brain, they would transform the network into a Texas college sports network and sign 2nd and 3rd tier rights to the various Texas FBS football and D1 basketball programs. A daily Sportcenter type broadcast would anchor the network in our football crazy state. That would earn them more money than the current LHN with practically no live content.

They tried that in the early days of the Longhorn Network, with rights to games ESPN owned already, and the non-UT schools were adamantly against showing them on Bevo TV. The experiment was abandoned.

Because it was called the Longhorn Network. If it was not a University of Texas property, but was an actual network for Texas based FBS content, it would not have failed. Plus, like another poster stated, they were adding high school games.

It was an excuse to pay UT to stay out of the PAC.

It doesn’t matter if it ever turns a profit because that was never the point

BINGO.

The LHN might be losing money, but the $15 million per year average that ESPN is paying to Texas for rights fees is chump change compared to the increased rights fees that they would have had to pay to the proposed Pac-16 (or a Big Ten, SEC or ACC that added Texas, for that matter). It's a payment to keep Texas happy enough to preserve the Power Five status quo and not consolidate into a Power Four that would have NFL-type leverage over ESPN and other sports networks.

Contrary to what many want to believe, ESPN definitely does NOT want conference realignment. Preserving as many power conferences as possible is definitely within their interest to keep rights fees in check.
06-03-2019 03:11 PM
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Post: #44
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
(06-03-2019 03:11 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 05:27 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 05:23 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 04:47 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 03:21 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  The LHN will fold. There just isn't enough content on the network to justify the money espn is doling out. If espn had half a brain, they would transform the network into a Texas college sports network and sign 2nd and 3rd tier rights to the various Texas FBS football and D1 basketball programs. A daily Sportcenter type broadcast would anchor the network in our football crazy state. That would earn them more money than the current LHN with practically no live content.

They tried that in the early days of the Longhorn Network, with rights to games ESPN owned already, and the non-UT schools were adamantly against showing them on Bevo TV. The experiment was abandoned.

Because it was called the Longhorn Network. If it was not a University of Texas property, but was an actual network for Texas based FBS content, it would not have failed. Plus, like another poster stated, they were adding high school games.

It was an excuse to pay UT to stay out of the PAC.

It doesn’t matter if it ever turns a profit because that was never the point

BINGO.

The LHN might be losing money, but the $15 million per year average that ESPN is paying to Texas for rights fees is chump change compared to the increased rights fees that they would have had to pay to the proposed Pac-16 (or a Big Ten, SEC or ACC that added Texas, for that matter). It's a payment to keep Texas happy enough to preserve the Power Five status quo and not consolidate into a Power Four that would have NFL-type leverage over ESPN and other sports networks.

Contrary to what many want to believe, ESPN definitely does NOT want conference realignment. Preserving as many power conferences as possible is definitely within their interest to keep rights fees in check.

Yes an no Frank. Yes they want to keep enough conferences so as not to loose too much leverage. But no when you consider how they have used the realignment that has occurred. They paid Texas to stay, but they encouraged more than 1 conference into Texas, discouraged the SEC from gaining more leverage in Florida, and were likely encouraging a break up of the 4 schools in North Carolina in 2010-2. By breaking up the control a conference has over large states they further strengthened their position with regard to leverage. Texas still has leverage, but ESPN now has a back door into Texas through A&M if Texas ever balks. In helping the ACC garner N.D. as a partial they have a back door into many of the large cities of the Big 10 and with sufficient draw so as to be able to capitalize on advertising in them.

The Big 10's desire for N.D. was strategic more than passionate. With N.D. in the fold the leverage the Big 10 would have had in those major cities would have almost been absolute.

So I'd say they have shied away from moves that would cost them leverage and have encouraged moves that gave them leverage. So as Gump would say "I think maybe it's both at the same time."

I might add that the break up of the prime Big 12 properties and the Old Big East properties actually added more value to investments elsewhere so there's that angle too (product placement).
06-03-2019 03:24 PM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #45
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
(06-03-2019 12:56 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 01:33 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I'm going to say no. I think when the original LHN deal runs its course they should low ball Texas on the renewal deal and present the counter offer of going to the SEC, where ESPN already has a T3 deal in place, with TTU as a companion, and the LHN will be converted to SECN2.

I just don't think it makes financial sense for the Mouse to pay what they pay the Big 12 for T1 and T2 and then an absorbed amount for Texas T3 and their own dedicated channel that has very little live content. Outside of Texas and Oklahoma, there really isn't much premiere content to attract viewers.

What do the rest of you think will happen when the B12 GOR runs out and the LHN is up for renewal?

The LHN runs through 2030-31 season (June 30th 2031), six years past the B12 GOR expiration on June 30th, 2025 (after the 2024-25 season). There is no "out" for ESPN. So they would have to buyout the remaining contract, which has both a monetary transfer as well as agreement to provide to Texas through the end of the contract the equipment (as technology changes) to run a modern digital network, reportedly that is also quite high. Yes the contract is a disaster for ESPN, but fortunately it's a rounding error for the company annually.

So how much would it cost to buy out? A quick look at the payout tables, which is easy spreadsheet math to calculate, we see this

PHP Code:
Payout +3per year        Year
$10,883,665         2011-12
$11,237,384         2012-13
$11,602,599         2013-14
$11,979,684         2014-15
$12,369,023         2015-16
$12,771,017         2016-17
$13,186,075         2017-18
$13,614,622         2018-19
$14,057,097         2019-20
$14,513,953         2020-21
$14,985,656         2021-22
$15,472,690         2022-23
$15,975,553         2023-24
$16,494,758         2024-25
$17,030,838         2025-26
$17,584,340         2026-27
$18,155,831         2027-28
$18,745,895         2028-29
$19,355,137         2029-30
$19,984,179         2030-31 

To date ESPN has paid out $97,644,068, with the 2018-19 payout being $13,614,622.

The cost of the remaining payment is $202,355,927, which would be a good estimate of your buyout cost today.

I think Texas would agree to a buyout for considerably less, if it's a one-time lump sum payment, which is the only reason for ESPN to do it (the current arrangement already is a spread-out payment scheme).

For one thing, the time value of money would be big. I haven't done an NPV in a while but because $202m today is worth a lot more than $202m paid over the next 12 years..

Second, Texas would then be free to turn around and sell those T3 rights to someone else, and that would be worth something to them as well. Now of course, they wouldn't want to reduce the amount of the ESPN payout be an amount equal to the new rights sales, because as you say they want to profit off of this.

So let's say that Texas thinks that $202m spread out over 12 years is worth a lump sum of $155m today assuming a discount rate of 2% annually.

Then, let's say Texas lines up FOX to pay it $8m a year for those 12 years of content that is moving off the defunct LHN. The PV of that $96m in future payments might be say $70m. FOX covers the same production costs that ESPN was covering, if any.

So $155m - $70m = $85m. But because Texas has no reason to do this without earning a healthy profit, add $20m in ...

Texas might take a lump sum payout of $105m or thereabouts from ESPN right now to close down the LHN and all ESPN future obligations.
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2019 04:31 PM by quo vadis.)
06-03-2019 04:30 PM
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P5PACSEC Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
(06-03-2019 07:47 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 10:00 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 06:56 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 06:31 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 05:13 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  It made sense at the time for what it was

Remember: at the time, the PAC was a Fox property and if the original group the PAC wanted (Colorado, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Texas and the two political tagalongs) had passed then suddenly Fox is in control of almost all major college FB west of The Mississippi

ESPN saw the chance to stop this with what was essentially a bribe for UT to stay in the B12.

Yes it’s a money loser but it was also a loss leader to prevent a potentially disastrous scenario for them

2 political tagalongs?? TCU needs the Big 12 to survive or they will be left behind. I'm pretty certain the PAC, SEC and Big 10 won't invite them if the Big 12 dissolves.


The truth is Larry Scott flew to Lubbock with an invitation to join the PAC. If Tech was a political tagalong, Larry Scott would have hand delivered our invitation to the UT brass in Austin.
https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregon...ac-10.html

The state of Texas has 3 schools (UT, Tech and A&M) who belong in a power conference.

Just for the amusement of the board, please list for us all the power conferences that would take mighty Texas Tech alone, by itself and not as a required package deal of other schools to get the school(s) they really want

Just for amusement, please list for us all the power conferences that would take a small private school in Ft. Worth? Texas Tech is the best option based on our fan support. No one else comes close and no one has had the success in spring sports over the last 2 years in Texas. Fix football and aggy will be an afterthought

Tech basketball ---2 Elite 8 and a national championship appearances
Tech Baseball--- hosting a super for the 4th time in 5 years with a trip to Omaha on the line.

Aggy basketball/baseball is done during Sweet 16/Super Regionals and Arkansas should kill tcu's dreams soon. Go Arkansas

Well for starters little buddy, the Big 12 invited TCU on merit, not politics which is how Tech weaseled its way into a power conference

But you didn’t answer my question! (Shock and surprise!)

Which power conferences would take mighty Texas Tech by itself, alone and not as part of a package?

I mean you’re having the greatest season of athletics in all of tech history ever so this shouldn’t be hard right? I mean basketball super matters in realignment, just ask Kanas! Not like one of the sports bluest of blue bloods who has more accomplishments on one Jayhawks feather tip than tech basketball ever will came THIS close to begging the Big East for a spot! And baseball?! Top of everybody’s priority list!

So which Power 4 leagues will snatch up Mighty Texas Tech and not wait for anyone else?

Texas Tech got in the Big 12 on it's own merits according to UT Chancellor at the time. You know this and I know it. Continue on with bashing of Texas Tech and the Big 12.

We needed another Texas team when aggy left and tcu was the best option left( SMU, Rice, Houston, TX State, North Texas and TCU). In fact, A&M was pushing for UH to be included, not TCU. I guess those small facts get in the way of bashing Texas Tech.

https://www.chron.com/sports/college/art...078166.php

Quote:Earlier Friday, an A&M official said Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe had told A&M president R. Bowen Loftin that the Big 12 would survive without the Aggies and that UT holds the key to the long-term future of the Big 12. The A&M official added that the Big 12 believes Houston would be a viable candidate to replace the Aggies.
06-03-2019 05:05 PM
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P5PACSEC Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
(06-03-2019 11:32 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 10:00 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 06:56 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 06:31 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 05:13 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  It made sense at the time for what it was

Remember: at the time, the PAC was a Fox property and if the original group the PAC wanted (Colorado, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Texas and the two political tagalongs) had passed then suddenly Fox is in control of almost all major college FB west of The Mississippi

ESPN saw the chance to stop this with what was essentially a bribe for UT to stay in the B12.

Yes it’s a money loser but it was also a loss leader to prevent a potentially disastrous scenario for them

2 political tagalongs?? TCU needs the Big 12 to survive or they will be left behind. I'm pretty certain the PAC, SEC and Big 10 won't invite them if the Big 12 dissolves.


The truth is Larry Scott flew to Lubbock with an invitation to join the PAC. If Tech was a political tagalong, Larry Scott would have hand delivered our invitation to the UT brass in Austin.
https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregon...ac-10.html

The state of Texas has 3 schools (UT, Tech and A&M) who belong in a power conference.

Just for the amusement of the board, please list for us all the power conferences that would take mighty Texas Tech alone, by itself and not as a required package deal of other schools to get the school(s) they really want

Just for amusement, please list for us all the power conferences that would take a small private school in Ft. Worth? Texas Tech is the best option based on our fan support. No one else comes close and no one has had the success in spring sports over the last 2 years in Texas. Fix football and aggy will be an afterthought

Tech basketball ---2 Elite 8 and a national championship appearances
Tech Baseball--- hosting a super for the 4th time in 5 years with a trip to Omaha on the line.

Aggy basketball/baseball is done during Sweet 16/Super Regionals and Arkansas should kill tcu's dreams soon. Go Arkansas

I know you intended this as flame bait for 10th Mountain, but I can answer your question. Try the ACC. Crazy as it sounds, I'm pretty sure that the ACC would give TCU an invite should the Big 12 dissolve.

No bait at all. I don't think the ACC would be interested in TCU but hey if TCU wants to fly their women's basketball team to Boston, MA in the dead of winter, be my guest.
06-03-2019 05:07 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
(06-03-2019 08:39 AM)33laszlo99 Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 08:05 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 07:47 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 10:00 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 06:56 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Just for the amusement of the board, please list for us all the power conferences that would take mighty Texas Tech alone, by itself and not as a required package deal of other schools to get the school(s) they really want

Just for amusement, please list for us all the power conferences that would take a small private school in Ft. Worth? Texas Tech is the best option based on our fan support. No one else comes close and no one has had the success in spring sports over the last 2 years in Texas. Fix football and aggy will be an afterthought

Tech basketball ---2 Elite 8 and a national championship appearances
Tech Baseball--- hosting a super for the 4th time in 5 years with a trip to Omaha on the line.

Aggy basketball/baseball is done during Sweet 16/Super Regionals and Arkansas should kill tcu's dreams soon. Go Arkansas

Well for starters little buddy, the Big 12 invited TCU on merit, not politics which is how Tech weaseled its way into a power conference

But you didn’t answer my question! (Shock and surprise!)

Which power conferences would take mighty Texas Tech by itself, alone and not as part of a package?

I mean you’re having the greatest season of athletics in all of tech history ever so this shouldn’t be hard right? I mean basketball super matters in realignment, just ask Kanas! Not like one of the sports bluest of blue bloods who has more accomplishments on one Jayhawks feather tip than tech basketball ever will came THIS close to begging the Big East for a spot! And baseball?! Top of everybody’s priority list!

So which Power 4 leagues will snatch up Mighty Texas Tech and not wait for anyone else?

Of course, you could ask related questions.
Which conference other than the Big 12 would invite any Pac 12 schools?
Which conference other than the Pac 12 (and Big 12 again) would invite Texas A&M?
Would the Big 10 invite any SEC school other than Florida?
Would the SEC invite any Big 10 school? Would the Pac 12 invite any Big 10 school?
Texas Tech doesn't geographically fit much of anywhere. Its too far east to entice the Pac 12 by themselves. Its too far west to be of interest to anyone but the Big 12.

Do you really think the B1G would reject Texas A&M, turn up their nose at Vandy? I can't imagine any conference saying "No, thank you" to Stanford, despite the miles. Some realignment moves are more practical than others, but certain schools are precious jewels. How about Michigan and Ohio State to the SEC? Would they be turned away?

I don't think the SEC would take them. They don't fit and the SEC has enough power at the top.
06-03-2019 05:12 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
(06-03-2019 03:11 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 05:27 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 05:23 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 04:47 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 03:21 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  The LHN will fold. There just isn't enough content on the network to justify the money espn is doling out. If espn had half a brain, they would transform the network into a Texas college sports network and sign 2nd and 3rd tier rights to the various Texas FBS football and D1 basketball programs. A daily Sportcenter type broadcast would anchor the network in our football crazy state. That would earn them more money than the current LHN with practically no live content.

They tried that in the early days of the Longhorn Network, with rights to games ESPN owned already, and the non-UT schools were adamantly against showing them on Bevo TV. The experiment was abandoned.

Because it was called the Longhorn Network. If it was not a University of Texas property, but was an actual network for Texas based FBS content, it would not have failed. Plus, like another poster stated, they were adding high school games.

It was an excuse to pay UT to stay out of the PAC.

It doesn’t matter if it ever turns a profit because that was never the point

BINGO.

The LHN might be losing money, but the $15 million per year average that ESPN is paying to Texas for rights fees is chump change compared to the increased rights fees that they would have had to pay to the proposed Pac-16 (or a Big Ten, SEC or ACC that added Texas, for that matter). It's a payment to keep Texas happy enough to preserve the Power Five status quo and not consolidate into a Power Four that would have NFL-type leverage over ESPN and other sports networks.

Contrary to what many want to believe, ESPN definitely does NOT want conference realignment. Preserving as many power conferences as possible is definitely within their interest to keep rights fees in check.

Actually as of a couple of years ago, the LHN was breaking even. But with attrition in cable subscribers and the seeming lack of advertising revenue, I don't think its going to make any money for ESPN. And probably won't cover the escalation.
06-03-2019 05:14 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
(06-03-2019 08:31 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  It's weird that they signed a 20 year contract. That seems absurdly long by TV Network standards.

Yes. But now that they're 7 years in, those of us that are still alive in 13 short years will see what happens.
06-03-2019 05:23 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
(06-03-2019 08:05 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 07:47 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 10:00 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 06:56 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 06:31 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  2 political tagalongs?? TCU needs the Big 12 to survive or they will be left behind. I'm pretty certain the PAC, SEC and Big 10 won't invite them if the Big 12 dissolves.


The truth is Larry Scott flew to Lubbock with an invitation to join the PAC. If Tech was a political tagalong, Larry Scott would have hand delivered our invitation to the UT brass in Austin.
https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregon...ac-10.html

The state of Texas has 3 schools (UT, Tech and A&M) who belong in a power conference.

Just for the amusement of the board, please list for us all the power conferences that would take mighty Texas Tech alone, by itself and not as a required package deal of other schools to get the school(s) they really want

Just for amusement, please list for us all the power conferences that would take a small private school in Ft. Worth? Texas Tech is the best option based on our fan support. No one else comes close and no one has had the success in spring sports over the last 2 years in Texas. Fix football and aggy will be an afterthought

Tech basketball ---2 Elite 8 and a national championship appearances
Tech Baseball--- hosting a super for the 4th time in 5 years with a trip to Omaha on the line.

Aggy basketball/baseball is done during Sweet 16/Super Regionals and Arkansas should kill tcu's dreams soon. Go Arkansas

Well for starters little buddy, the Big 12 invited TCU on merit, not politics which is how Tech weaseled its way into a power conference

But you didn’t answer my question! (Shock and surprise!)

Which power conferences would take mighty Texas Tech by itself, alone and not as part of a package?

I mean you’re having the greatest season of athletics in all of tech history ever so this shouldn’t be hard right? I mean basketball super matters in realignment, just ask Kanas! Not like one of the sports bluest of blue bloods who has more accomplishments on one Jayhawks feather tip than tech basketball ever will came THIS close to begging the Big East for a spot! And baseball?! Top of everybody’s priority list!

So which Power 4 leagues will snatch up Mighty Texas Tech and not wait for anyone else?

Of course, you could ask related questions.
Which conference other than the Big 12 would invite any Pac 12 schools?
Which conference other than the Pac 12 (and Big 12 again) would invite Texas A&M?
Would the Big 10 invite any SEC school other than Florida?
Would the SEC invite any Big 10 school? Would the Pac 12 invite any Big 10 school?
Texas Tech doesn't geographically fit much of anywhere. Its too far east to entice the Pac 12 by themselves. Its too far west to be of interest to anyone but the Big 12.

I hear what you are saying but you can get on a plane in Lubbock just as easy as you can Austin. IF THE BIG 12 happens to fail, I think the logical place for the Texhoma 4 is in the SEC. I bolded the IF part just to make sure posters don't think I'm advocating for the Big 12 to fail. Some like to use words against me.
06-03-2019 05:31 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
Please with the lies and propaganda

If Bob Bullock has not happened to be Lt. Governor at the time then neither Tech nor Baylor would be in the Big 12

From the UT press book “Bob Bullock: God Bless Texas”

Quote:Bullock, invigorated by the triumph and praise of the previous legislative session, summoned Bill Cunningham of UT and Herb Richardson of A&M to his office early in 1994, when the conference shuffle -- converting the Big 8 to the Big 10 -- was on the verge of being a done deal. Glaring at the two men he said, "You're taking Tech and Baylor or you're not taking anything. I'll cut your money off and you can join privately if you want, but you won't get another nickel of state money."

Even UT president Berdal contradicts Cunningham’s account:

Quote:but former UT president Robert Berdahl claimed that UT was threatened. ”As I recall, it wasn't a very veiled threat to cut budgets if Tech was left behind

So just thank your lucky stars that weasel politicians blackmailed your way into power conference for you
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2019 06:14 PM by 10thMountain.)
06-03-2019 06:04 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
(06-03-2019 03:11 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Contrary to what many want to believe, ESPN definitely does NOT want conference realignment. Preserving as many power conferences as possible is definitely within their interest to keep rights fees in check.

I'll buy into that one. People think Texas moving to a PAC-12 or Big Ten makes all of that content better. It doesn't, really, because you're still going to have to air content that doesn't draw, and, now, you're adding more resources to the conference to cover all of that content, good or bad.

The Big XII is a train wreck, but it captures a collection of similarly-minded institutions with good heat between each other that makes the content work. And ESPN has a piece of that, not all, and won't budge on giving them more without (surprise, surprise) more commitment. Yes, more money is on the table if the group decides to stay together.

It's not just ESPN. And other networks go about it their own way. NBCSN is simply not interested in taking on content it doesn't want. It has Notre Dame football. It doesn't have Notre Dame women's soccer. And that's deliberate.

And Fox is really only knee-jerk just to try to make ESPN overpay. You may see this more with Amazon and Youtube if it goes that way. They don't have content, have no idea how to manage it, and may overbid or over-saturate. It keeps up this facade college sports has going, but I doubt it's sustainable. It's not that ESPN is really making it work well, but it does have a buy into so much content that it kinda does make 3/+ unavoidable if you want to follow your team(s).
06-03-2019 06:04 PM
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P5PACSEC Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
(06-03-2019 06:04 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Please with the lies and propaganda

If Bob Bullock has not happened to be Lt. Governor at the time then neither Tech nor Baylor would be in the Big 12

From the UT press book “Bob Bullock: God Bless Texas”

Quote:Bullock, invigorated by the triumph and praise of the previous legislative session, summoned Bill Cunningham of UT and Herb Richardson of A&M to his office early in 1994, when the conference shuffle -- converting the Big 8 to the Big 10 -- was on the verge of being a done deal. Glaring at the two men he said, "You're taking Tech and Baylor or you're not taking anything. I'll cut your money off and you can join privately if you want, but you won't get another nickel of state money."

Even UT president Berdal contradicts Cunningham’s account:

Quote:but former UT president Robert Berdahl claimed that UT was threatened. ”As I recall, it wasn't a very veiled threat to cut budgets if Tech was left behind

So just thank your lucky stars that weasel politicians blackmailed your way into power conference for you

10th stop, your obsession with trashing Texas Tech is getting old. Go root for TCU and be happy.

Texas Tech got in and became a valuable member of the Big 12. You can ***** about life in 94 but it doesn't change the fact we got in.
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2019 07:05 PM by P5PACSEC.)
06-03-2019 07:00 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
(06-03-2019 07:00 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 06:04 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Please with the lies and propaganda

If Bob Bullock has not happened to be Lt. Governor at the time then neither Tech nor Baylor would be in the Big 12

From the UT press book “Bob Bullock: God Bless Texas”

Quote:Bullock, invigorated by the triumph and praise of the previous legislative session, summoned Bill Cunningham of UT and Herb Richardson of A&M to his office early in 1994, when the conference shuffle -- converting the Big 8 to the Big 10 -- was on the verge of being a done deal. Glaring at the two men he said, "You're taking Tech and Baylor or you're not taking anything. I'll cut your money off and you can join privately if you want, but you won't get another nickel of state money."

Even UT president Berdal contradicts Cunningham’s account:

Quote:but former UT president Robert Berdahl claimed that UT was threatened. ”As I recall, it wasn't a very veiled threat to cut budgets if Tech was left behind

So just thank your lucky stars that weasel politicians blackmailed your way into power conference for you

10th stop, your obsession with trashing Texas Tech is getting old. Go root for TCU and be happy.

Texas Tech got in and became a valuable member of the Big 12. You can ***** about life in 94 but it doesn't change the fact we got in.

Oh so quoting historical sources that confirm you are full of it and that Tech only got into a power conference by political blackmail is “talking trash”?

I guess I wouldn’t know since TCU earned its way into the Big 12
06-03-2019 07:09 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
(06-03-2019 11:32 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 10:00 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 06:56 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 06:31 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 05:13 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  It made sense at the time for what it was

Remember: at the time, the PAC was a Fox property and if the original group the PAC wanted (Colorado, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Texas and the two political tagalongs) had passed then suddenly Fox is in control of almost all major college FB west of The Mississippi

ESPN saw the chance to stop this with what was essentially a bribe for UT to stay in the B12.

Yes it’s a money loser but it was also a loss leader to prevent a potentially disastrous scenario for them

2 political tagalongs?? TCU needs the Big 12 to survive or they will be left behind. I'm pretty certain the PAC, SEC and Big 10 won't invite them if the Big 12 dissolves.


The truth is Larry Scott flew to Lubbock with an invitation to join the PAC. If Tech was a political tagalong, Larry Scott would have hand delivered our invitation to the UT brass in Austin.
https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregon...ac-10.html

The state of Texas has 3 schools (UT, Tech and A&M) who belong in a power conference.

Just for the amusement of the board, please list for us all the power conferences that would take mighty Texas Tech alone, by itself and not as a required package deal of other schools to get the school(s) they really want

Just for amusement, please list for us all the power conferences that would take a small private school in Ft. Worth? Texas Tech is the best option based on our fan support. No one else comes close and no one has had the success in spring sports over the last 2 years in Texas. Fix football and aggy will be an afterthought

Tech basketball ---2 Elite 8 and a national championship appearances
Tech Baseball--- hosting a super for the 4th time in 5 years with a trip to Omaha on the line.

Aggy basketball/baseball is done during Sweet 16/Super Regionals and Arkansas should kill tcu's dreams soon. Go Arkansas

I know you intended this as flame bait for 10th Mountain, but I can answer your question. Try the ACC. Crazy as it sounds, I'm pretty sure that the ACC would give TCU an invite should the Big 12 dissolve.

I could see that, could also see them being invited ti the SEC to pair with A&M. Wraps up the two big markets in Texas and gives the Aggies a new Texas rival if they can't land the Longhorns.
06-03-2019 07:34 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
If the LHN is nothing more than blood money to keep costs down across the industry by having 5 power leagues than a more concentrated 4 then how long are they going to be willing to keep that tribute payment up while Fox and CBS are reaping the same benefits at no cost?
06-03-2019 07:53 PM
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P5PACSEC Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
(06-03-2019 07:09 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 07:00 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 06:04 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Please with the lies and propaganda

If Bob Bullock has not happened to be Lt. Governor at the time then neither Tech nor Baylor would be in the Big 12

From the UT press book “Bob Bullock: God Bless Texas”

Quote:Bullock, invigorated by the triumph and praise of the previous legislative session, summoned Bill Cunningham of UT and Herb Richardson of A&M to his office early in 1994, when the conference shuffle -- converting the Big 8 to the Big 10 -- was on the verge of being a done deal. Glaring at the two men he said, "You're taking Tech and Baylor or you're not taking anything. I'll cut your money off and you can join privately if you want, but you won't get another nickel of state money."

Even UT president Berdal contradicts Cunningham’s account:

Quote:but former UT president Robert Berdahl claimed that UT was threatened. ”As I recall, it wasn't a very veiled threat to cut budgets if Tech was left behind

So just thank your lucky stars that weasel politicians blackmailed your way into power conference for you

10th stop, your obsession with trashing Texas Tech is getting old. Go root for TCU and be happy.

Texas Tech got in and became a valuable member of the Big 12. You can ***** about life in 94 but it doesn't change the fact we got in.

Oh so quoting historical sources that confirm you are full of it and that Tech only got into a power conference by political blackmail is “talking trash”?

I guess I wouldn’t know since TCU earned its way into the Big 12

LOL, if being the tallest midget among the other schools in Texas is earning a way into the Big 12, be my guest.

True TCU fans, please note none of this is directed at you. The TCU grad has no boundaries and loves to bash the Big 12 and Texas Tech.
06-03-2019 08:03 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
(06-03-2019 08:03 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 07:09 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 07:00 PM)P5PACSEC Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 06:04 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Please with the lies and propaganda

If Bob Bullock has not happened to be Lt. Governor at the time then neither Tech nor Baylor would be in the Big 12

From the UT press book “Bob Bullock: God Bless Texas”

Quote:Bullock, invigorated by the triumph and praise of the previous legislative session, summoned Bill Cunningham of UT and Herb Richardson of A&M to his office early in 1994, when the conference shuffle -- converting the Big 8 to the Big 10 -- was on the verge of being a done deal. Glaring at the two men he said, "You're taking Tech and Baylor or you're not taking anything. I'll cut your money off and you can join privately if you want, but you won't get another nickel of state money."

Even UT president Berdal contradicts Cunningham’s account:

Quote:but former UT president Robert Berdahl claimed that UT was threatened. ”As I recall, it wasn't a very veiled threat to cut budgets if Tech was left behind

So just thank your lucky stars that weasel politicians blackmailed your way into power conference for you

10th stop, your obsession with trashing Texas Tech is getting old. Go root for TCU and be happy.

Texas Tech got in and became a valuable member of the Big 12. You can ***** about life in 94 but it doesn't change the fact we got in.

Oh so quoting historical sources that confirm you are full of it and that Tech only got into a power conference by political blackmail is “talking trash”?

I guess I wouldn’t know since TCU earned its way into the Big 12

LOL, if being the tallest midget among the other schools in Texas is earning a way into the Big 12, be my guest.

True TCU fans, please note none of this is directed at you. The TCU grad has no boundaries and loves to bash the Big 12 and Texas Tech.

YOu and 10th proceed at your own peril past this point. The thread was about the LHN. Stick to that topic.
06-03-2019 08:19 PM
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RE: Does the LHN make financial sense for ESPN?
I'll stop.
06-03-2019 08:21 PM
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