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2018 P5 Conference Revenue Distribution - B1G cashes in
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #21
RE: 2018 P5 Conference Revenue Distribution - B1G cashes in
(06-01-2019 09:52 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  In addition there are start up costs to be recouped. I dont think either the big ten or pac 13 paid out the first couple of years. The sec did, but they began building the start up costs in years before and individually bought back their rights.

So the add network may payout year one, it probably much less than it takes in in revenues.

Startup for the SEC spilled over into the first year and we only had 10 months worth of fees to collect. We made a little over 3 million per school the first year.
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2019 10:17 PM by JRsec.)
06-01-2019 10:17 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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RE: 2018 P5 Conference Revenue Distribution - B1G cashes in
(06-01-2019 09:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-01-2019 07:52 PM)ColKurtz Wrote:  
(06-01-2019 10:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  FWIW, in their 2019 - 2020 budget, FSU is expecting an increase of about $3m thanks to the ACCN.

It would take an unmitigated disaster in carriage fees or providers for the ACCN to bring in only $3M. Even conservative estimates are around $10M per year. I could see an accelerating payout starting around $7M/yr, with caveats installed where the accleration drops off if cord cutting and carriages drop off a cliff.

Well let's see. The average rate for the SEC (in footprint and out combined) is .74 cents per subscription. The average rate for the Big 10 (in footprint and out combined) is .49 cents. The average rate for the PAC (in footprint and out combined) is .11 cents. The SEC draws more viewers than anyone. The SEC has the highest % of actual viewers vs potential viewers within its own footprint than any other conference and the SEC makes about 8 million off of the SECN. The ACC is tied with the PAC for the fewest number of actual viewers vs potential viewers and is 5th nationally in viewership. So you tell me what kind of rate the ACC is going to get!

With ESPN's help and bundled with the SECN in a package, I expect the ACC to do much better than the PAC because the PAC has nobody pushing their carriage. They love totally owning their product. The ad thing is that 100% of little is still only a little. I think if the ACCN gets an average .35 cents they should be ecstatic. I also think .25 cents is possible. Based on your numbers anything more than .35 cents is a gift.

If fb was all the ACC had to offer then I might agree. But the ACC has 4 of the 10 Ten winning-est programs of all times in bb. Basketball is going to be the ace in the hole for the ACC with programs like Virginia and Notre Dame engaging viewers. I think the ACC does much better than .35 cents and much closer to the SEC. That along with ESPN having the experience getting the SECN on to cable systems and having the hindsight of do's and dont's, with that whole experience will help the ACCN surprise a bunch of folks.
06-02-2019 12:16 AM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: 2018 P5 Conference Revenue Distribution - B1G cashes in
(06-02-2019 12:16 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(06-01-2019 09:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-01-2019 07:52 PM)ColKurtz Wrote:  
(06-01-2019 10:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  FWIW, in their 2019 - 2020 budget, FSU is expecting an increase of about $3m thanks to the ACCN.

It would take an unmitigated disaster in carriage fees or providers for the ACCN to bring in only $3M. Even conservative estimates are around $10M per year. I could see an accelerating payout starting around $7M/yr, with caveats installed where the accleration drops off if cord cutting and carriages drop off a cliff.

Well let's see. The average rate for the SEC (in footprint and out combined) is .74 cents per subscription. The average rate for the Big 10 (in footprint and out combined) is .49 cents. The average rate for the PAC (in footprint and out combined) is .11 cents. The SEC draws more viewers than anyone. The SEC has the highest % of actual viewers vs potential viewers within its own footprint than any other conference and the SEC makes about 8 million off of the SECN. The ACC is tied with the PAC for the fewest number of actual viewers vs potential viewers and is 5th nationally in viewership. So you tell me what kind of rate the ACC is going to get!

With ESPN's help and bundled with the SECN in a package, I expect the ACC to do much better than the PAC because the PAC has nobody pushing their carriage. They love totally owning their product. The ad thing is that 100% of little is still only a little. I think if the ACCN gets an average .35 cents they should be ecstatic. I also think .25 cents is possible. Based on your numbers anything more than .35 cents is a gift.

If fb was all the ACC had to offer then I might agree. But the ACC has 4 of the 10 Ten winning-est programs of all times in bb. Basketball is going to be the ace in the hole for the ACC with programs like Virginia and Notre Dame engaging viewers. I think the ACC does much better than .35 cents and much closer to the SEC. That along with ESPN having the experience getting the SECN on to cable systems and having the hindsight of do's and dont's, with that whole experience will help the ACCN surprise a bunch of folks.

It doesn't matter what you think they deserve or even what I think they deserve, what matters are the ratings and ad revenue and 80% of that is football and it's the consumer that sets those priorities. If you have a large market share it will pay. But nothing from the numbers indicates that to be the case. No doubt that the ACC will carry the Mid-Atlantic and New England markets for hoops but those are regional numbers. You are going to need a strong draw nationally in football to keep pace with the SEC and your numbers just aren't there.

As far as do and don't goes there aren't many. ESPN handles the carriage set ups and the overhead is to standardize production facilities so any of their personnel can operate them and so equipment coordinates between the school and network.

I've said that I feel you guys can make between 5 to 8 million in 4 or 5 years time. But you'll likely start around 3 million per school just like the Big 10 and SEC did. It takes time for consumers to find you and watch you enough to get habituated. It will take time.

ESPN can provide you with subscribers, what they can't do is force those subscribers to watch in sufficient numbers to guarantee a rate which is really set by the advertiser and passed on to you by the network. If you want more money get more people to watch. It's really just that simple.
06-02-2019 01:53 AM
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CardinalJim Offline
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RE: 2018 P5 Conference Revenue Distribution - B1G cashes in
If ESPN wants to maximize profits for its conference networks it simply increases inner league football and basketball contests between The SEC and The ACC. ESPN can for all practical purposes put all SEC and ACC out conference games on The SEC or ACC Network by insisting that SEC and ACC only play each other out of conference.

SEC basketball numbers get bumped because of The ACC. ACC football numbers get a bump because of The SEC.

If ESPN, SEC and ACC leadership chooses to do this matchups like Kansas / Kentucky, Louisville / Indiana or North Carolina / UCLA basketball or Texas A&M / Texas, Virginia Tech / WVU football go away. (Texas A&M vs Texas already has and if Texas doesn’t become an SEC or ACC property they may never play again.)

Then ESPN puts its 5 Notre Dame / ACC games all on The ACC Network.

If college sports fans believe ESPN is beyond taking the Nations best college football and basketball conferences off the schedules of The Big Ten, PAC or Big 12, they are sadly mistaken. Dictating conference membership was Step 1, dictating when conference games were played (ACC conference basketball games in November) was Step 2, dictating who their conferences play is Step 3.
06-02-2019 06:57 AM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: 2018 P5 Conference Revenue Distribution - B1G cashes in
(06-02-2019 06:57 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  If ESPN wants to maximize profits for its conference networks it simply increases inner league football and basketball contests between The SEC and The ACC. ESPN can for all practical purposes put all SEC and ACC out conference games on The SEC or ACC Network by insisting that SEC and ACC only play each other out of conference.

SEC basketball numbers get bumped because of The ACC. ACC football numbers get a bump because of The SEC.

If ESPN, SEC and ACC leadership chooses to do this matchups like Kansas / Kentucky, Louisville / Indiana or North Carolina / UCLA basketball or Texas A&M / Texas, Virginia Tech / WVU football go away. (Texas A&M vs Texas already has and if Texas doesn’t become an SEC or ACC property they may never play again.)

Then ESPN puts its 5 Notre Dame / ACC games all on The ACC Network.

If college sports fans believe ESPN is beyond taking the Nations best college football and basketball conferences off the schedules of The Big Ten, PAC or Big 12, they are sadly mistaken. Dictating conference membership was Step 1, dictating when conference games were played (ACC conference basketball games in November) was Step 2, dictating who their conferences play is Step 3.


Not five ND/ACC games per year. Two or three, depending on the year.

All ND home games will be on NBC.
06-02-2019 07:25 AM
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RE: 2018 P5 Conference Revenue Distribution - B1G cashes in
Power 2 2025
06-02-2019 07:32 AM
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CardinalJim Offline
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RE: 2018 P5 Conference Revenue Distribution - B1G cashes in
(06-02-2019 07:25 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 06:57 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  If ESPN wants to maximize profits for its conference networks it simply increases inner league football and basketball contests between The SEC and The ACC. ESPN can for all practical purposes put all SEC and ACC out conference games on The SEC or ACC Network by insisting that SEC and ACC only play each other out of conference.

SEC basketball numbers get bumped because of The ACC. ACC football numbers get a bump because of The SEC.

If ESPN, SEC and ACC leadership chooses to do this matchups like Kansas / Kentucky, Louisville / Indiana or North Carolina / UCLA basketball or Texas A&M / Texas, Virginia Tech / WVU football go away. (Texas A&M vs Texas already has and if Texas doesn’t become an SEC or ACC property they may never play again.)

Then ESPN puts its 5 Notre Dame / ACC games all on The ACC Network.

If college sports fans believe ESPN is beyond taking the Nations best college football and basketball conferences off the schedules of The Big Ten, PAC or Big 12, they are sadly mistaken. Dictating conference membership was Step 1, dictating when conference games were played (ACC conference basketball games in November) was Step 2, dictating who their conferences play is Step 3.


Not five ND/ACC games per year. Two or three, depending on the year.

All ND home games will be on NBC.

Thanks wasn’t sure how the contract was written. That’s still 2 or 3 games each season that ESPN could move to The ACC Network.
06-02-2019 07:57 AM
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cuseroc Offline
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RE: 2018 P5 Conference Revenue Distribution - B1G cashes in
(06-02-2019 01:53 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 12:16 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(06-01-2019 09:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-01-2019 07:52 PM)ColKurtz Wrote:  
(06-01-2019 10:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  FWIW, in their 2019 - 2020 budget, FSU is expecting an increase of about $3m thanks to the ACCN.

It would take an unmitigated disaster in carriage fees or providers for the ACCN to bring in only $3M. Even conservative estimates are around $10M per year. I could see an accelerating payout starting around $7M/yr, with caveats installed where the accleration drops off if cord cutting and carriages drop off a cliff.

Well let's see. The average rate for the SEC (in footprint and out combined) is .74 cents per subscription. The average rate for the Big 10 (in footprint and out combined) is .49 cents. The average rate for the PAC (in footprint and out combined) is .11 cents. The SEC draws more viewers than anyone. The SEC has the highest % of actual viewers vs potential viewers within its own footprint than any other conference and the SEC makes about 8 million off of the SECN. The ACC is tied with the PAC for the fewest number of actual viewers vs potential viewers and is 5th nationally in viewership. So you tell me what kind of rate the ACC is going to get!

With ESPN's help and bundled with the SECN in a package, I expect the ACC to do much better than the PAC because the PAC has nobody pushing their carriage. They love totally owning their product. The ad thing is that 100% of little is still only a little. I think if the ACCN gets an average .35 cents they should be ecstatic. I also think .25 cents is possible. Based on your numbers anything more than .35 cents is a gift.

If fb was all the ACC had to offer then I might agree. But the ACC has 4 of the 10 Ten winning-est programs of all times in bb. Basketball is going to be the ace in the hole for the ACC with programs like Virginia and Notre Dame engaging viewers. I think the ACC does much better than .35 cents and much closer to the SEC. That along with ESPN having the experience getting the SECN on to cable systems and having the hindsight of do's and dont's, with that whole experience will help the ACCN surprise a bunch of folks.

It doesn't matter what you think they deserve or even what I think they deserve, what matters are the ratings and ad revenue and 80% of that is football and it's the consumer that sets those priorities. If you have a large market share it will pay. But nothing from the numbers indicates that to be the case. No doubt that the ACC will carry the Mid-Atlantic and New England markets for hoops but those are regional numbers. You are going to need a strong draw nationally in football to keep pace with the SEC and your numbers just aren't there.

As far as do and don't goes there aren't many. ESPN handles the carriage set ups and the overhead is to standardize production facilities so any of their personnel can operate them and so equipment coordinates between the school and network.

I've said that I feel you guys can make between 5 to 8 million in 4 or 5 years time. But you'll likely start around 3 million per school just like the Big 10 and SEC did. It takes time for consumers to find you and watch you enough to get habituated. It will take time.

ESPN can provide you with subscribers, what they can't do is force those subscribers to watch in sufficient numbers to guarantee a rate which is really set by the advertiser and passed on to you by the network. If you want more money get more people to watch. It's really just that simple.

You are correct about what you and I think doesnt matter. But what folks in positions to know and to see these things thru, seem to have a more positive view of the ACCN first year. I remember seeing articles about the SECN first year generating $5per team. Then seeing posters put up info about the SECN doing even better at $7 million per team. Now its $3 million per team?

I also dont believe that 80% of of conference network revenue coming from fb. That was a number that was thrown around years ago by a conference higher up regarding what ESPN was paying a particular conference, even before conference networks started to take hold. I think it would be different with a conference network. Especially for a league like the ACC. Delaney once said that it was BIG basketball that really helped to get the BIGN gain traction because the season was so long.
06-02-2019 11:05 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #29
RE: 2018 P5 Conference Revenue Distribution - B1G cashes in
(06-02-2019 06:57 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  If ESPN wants to maximize profits for its conference networks it simply increases inner league football and basketball contests between The SEC and The ACC. ESPN can for all practical purposes put all SEC and ACC out conference games on The SEC or ACC Network by insisting that SEC and ACC only play each other out of conference.

SEC basketball numbers get bumped because of The ACC. ACC football numbers get a bump because of The SEC.

If ESPN, SEC and ACC leadership chooses to do this matchups like Kansas / Kentucky, Louisville / Indiana or North Carolina / UCLA basketball or Texas A&M / Texas, Virginia Tech / WVU football go away. (Texas A&M vs Texas already has and if Texas doesn’t become an SEC or ACC property they may never play again.)

Then ESPN puts its 5 Notre Dame / ACC games all on The ACC Network.

If college sports fans believe ESPN is beyond taking the Nations best college football and basketball conferences off the schedules of The Big Ten, PAC or Big 12, they are sadly mistaken. Dictating conference membership was Step 1, dictating when conference games were played (ACC conference basketball games in November) was Step 2, dictating who their conferences play is Step 3.

Jim, we are headed there but in a way not quite a beneficial to any of our conference schools. ESPN is already doing this in a limited way between not only the SEC and ACC but also the Big 12 schools they have the most interest in. They use the SEC/Big 12 basketball challenge to pump ratings up for both. They use these future games scheduled with Texas and Oklahoma to maximize their investment (and over payment) in the Horns.

But what they refuse to do formally is to place us under 1 banner, set investment caps, and give us the leverage we would be due to gain the best possible contracts.

If you look at the history of realignment, and I wrote a blog on this before I joined this board, the footprint model only ever served 1 purpose and that for the network. It kept conferences from consolidating their hold over a region, or large states. Why? It kept the network from having to deal with an SEC that held sway over Florida, a Big 10 that held sway over New England, and it intentionally pushed the busting up of Texas as solely a SWC (networks were active in this direction as early as the late 80's and early 90's) and then over the Big 12. And they tried like hell to bust up North Carolina and Virginia.

By doing so what they managed to do was to make sure there was always another way into those states and regions should they lose a conference's confidence or business to another network. They also felt that by blurring regional boundaries they could draw in the interest of the other impacted regions. And both of these strategies have worked more or less for them and as they did they both eroded the leverage and power of top conferences.

Sure the Big 10 and SEC prospered but now we dance to their tune whether that is more neutral site games, more games against each other, more conference games, etc.

Notre Dame has made out like a bandit with this because they are the backdoor into the major cities of the Big 10 for the networks and when Delany wouldn't dance to Mickey Mouse's tune they were there for NBC and now marginally for ESPN.

What would a natural realignment looked like?

The 10 school SEC probably would have added Florida State and Arkansas without interference. We had always looked more West than East but considered Florida ours until the rise of FSU.

South Carolina and Georgia Tech would have been the prodigal son and solid get for the ACC.

When the Big East broke apart (and it might not have had things remained regional and networks had stayed out of manipulating crises) then Virginia Tech would have made sense for the ACC and getting into Florida with Miami would have as well.

By the time of the 2011 realignment timeline Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri and Iowa State would have made sense for the Big 10 and perhaps then the SEC would have gotten into Texas with the Aggies and possibly Texas or Oklahoma.

But the point I've been making for over a decade is that when Georgia and Oklahoma won their lawsuit it took about half a decade for the Networks to figure out how to take advantage of the new opportunity to manipulate conferences into configurations that profited the network.

Texas was in too small a market so bust up the SWC and if just getting them and Nebraska to form a coalition called the Big 12 then that's at least a step in the right direction.

With Beamer and the rise of Va Tech and with Miami winning nattys in the 80's suddenly there was product in the Big East you could make a lot more money off of in other conferences and if they landed Penn State they might be damn hard to break up. And their cozy relationship with N.D. didn't help matters either. Too much brand power in an area just as likely to watch basketball as football. Move them accordingly and more money could be made.

The SEC and Big 10 could be manipulated eventually with the right additions gaining the right concessions. Keep them from consolidating power in their areas but keep them multiplying value by increasing their edges by encroaching into weaker markets. So Rutgers and Maryland and Missouri are preferred to any serious attempt at F.S.U. and Clemson in the South or Notre Dame in the North. And for all of the naysayers there was a brief point in which N.D. leadership was actually listening to the Big 10.

Note I haven't mentioned the PAC. They wouldn't play ball with the networks and they already had consolidated power in their region. So limit their exposure, let them run behind in carriage and revenue and eventually they'll cry uncle and I'd say were pretty damned close to that point now.

Once the networks get more control over the PAC then the corporate model takes over completely. More special alliances until the dead weight in each conference can be culled. Product placement at work. Multiply the value of Texas with U.S.C. and the value of Washington with Michigan, but not all under one umbrella where they gain leverage, but with season starting neutral site games in markets that have nothing to do with either but will watch if their cities are involved. Do it with bowl and CFP games at the end, and do it with mid-season games in hoops, baseball, etc.

To the network mindset 5 conferences works fine because it keeps power from being consolidated. But if they want more brand on brand they will eventually consent to a move to 4 each with a scheduling partner in the form of another conference with challenge play to match up top brands.

I favor 2 leagues because it returns some say to the conferences which are currently too small to take on the networks. I favor 2 leagues because the insanity of no caps on spending only serves the networks and not the schools. They use competition to force more and more spending to build brand and product which serves them since it is quality product at no overhead to them save for rights which are only a % of profit with little liability.

We need 2 leagues for no other reason than if we don't stick together we are going to continue to get railroaded into doing things are not good for our fans, our conferences, or for the game itself. Greed has taken over what was a sleepy, but healthy, American pass time and social icon and now the Devil plays the tune we dance to and tells us to like it.

Once the Big 10 and SEC figure this out and work together change can start. But as long as we are pitted against one another by petty battles over exposure and potential members it keeps us from targeting the real foe. Exactly like social issues does in national politics. The more we focus on our differences the more power corporations consolidate by lobbying both sides of the aisle. What's happening in college sports is no different. It's time we put aside our regional differences and took back control of our games.
06-02-2019 11:41 AM
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zoocrew Offline
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RE: 2018 P5 Conference Revenue Distribution - B1G cashes in
I’d be cool eventually with 4 major conferences with the B1G, SEC, PAC and the ACC becoming a mainly Urban/Private School conference with smaller state flagships like UConn and West Virginia while also retaining the Duke’s and Miami’s and adding urban schools like Temple and Cincy.

It’s going to get to point if it hasn’t already where we just can’t compete on a weekly basis.
06-02-2019 01:04 PM
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RE: 2018 P5 Conference Revenue Distribution - B1G cashes in
(06-02-2019 11:05 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 01:53 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 12:16 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(06-01-2019 09:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-01-2019 07:52 PM)ColKurtz Wrote:  It would take an unmitigated disaster in carriage fees or providers for the ACCN to bring in only $3M. Even conservative estimates are around $10M per year. I could see an accelerating payout starting around $7M/yr, with caveats installed where the accleration drops off if cord cutting and carriages drop off a cliff.

Well let's see. The average rate for the SEC (in footprint and out combined) is .74 cents per subscription. The average rate for the Big 10 (in footprint and out combined) is .49 cents. The average rate for the PAC (in footprint and out combined) is .11 cents. The SEC draws more viewers than anyone. The SEC has the highest % of actual viewers vs potential viewers within its own footprint than any other conference and the SEC makes about 8 million off of the SECN. The ACC is tied with the PAC for the fewest number of actual viewers vs potential viewers and is 5th nationally in viewership. So you tell me what kind of rate the ACC is going to get!

With ESPN's help and bundled with the SECN in a package, I expect the ACC to do much better than the PAC because the PAC has nobody pushing their carriage. They love totally owning their product. The ad thing is that 100% of little is still only a little. I think if the ACCN gets an average .35 cents they should be ecstatic. I also think .25 cents is possible. Based on your numbers anything more than .35 cents is a gift.

If fb was all the ACC had to offer then I might agree. But the ACC has 4 of the 10 Ten winning-est programs of all times in bb. Basketball is going to be the ace in the hole for the ACC with programs like Virginia and Notre Dame engaging viewers. I think the ACC does much better than .35 cents and much closer to the SEC. That along with ESPN having the experience getting the SECN on to cable systems and having the hindsight of do's and dont's, with that whole experience will help the ACCN surprise a bunch of folks.

It doesn't matter what you think they deserve or even what I think they deserve, what matters are the ratings and ad revenue and 80% of that is football and it's the consumer that sets those priorities. If you have a large market share it will pay. But nothing from the numbers indicates that to be the case. No doubt that the ACC will carry the Mid-Atlantic and New England markets for hoops but those are regional numbers. You are going to need a strong draw nationally in football to keep pace with the SEC and your numbers just aren't there.

As far as do and don't goes there aren't many. ESPN handles the carriage set ups and the overhead is to standardize production facilities so any of their personnel can operate them and so equipment coordinates between the school and network.

I've said that I feel you guys can make between 5 to 8 million in 4 or 5 years time. But you'll likely start around 3 million per school just like the Big 10 and SEC did. It takes time for consumers to find you and watch you enough to get habituated. It will take time.

ESPN can provide you with subscribers, what they can't do is force those subscribers to watch in sufficient numbers to guarantee a rate which is really set by the advertiser and passed on to you by the network. If you want more money get more people to watch. It's really just that simple.

You are correct about what you and I think doesnt matter. But what folks in positions to know and to see these things thru, seem to have a more positive view of the ACCN first year. I remember seeing articles about the SECN first year generating $5per team. Then seeing posters put up info about the SECN doing even better at $7 million per team. Now its $3 million per team?

I also dont believe that 80% of of conference network revenue coming from fb. That was a number that was thrown around years ago by a conference higher up regarding what ESPN was paying a particular conference, even before conference networks started to take hold. I think it would be different with a conference network. Especially for a league like the ACC. Delaney once said that it was BIG basketball that really helped to get the BIGN gain traction because the season was so long.

This is correct. While the general rule is 80% of money comes from football, it is just that, a general rule. Conference networks, for example the big ten network, made a much higher percentage of money from basketball, and in fact was much more responsible for their growth than football, a seven big ten people weren’t enthused by games vs fcs schools and Lower level schools. But when teams were missing marquee basketball games, they started joining direct tv en masse, to stop kissing games.

Becuase the content on conference networks is far superior for basketball than football (you get marquee basketball matchups, while football
Matchups beyond orchestrated matchups to set up the network), and because acc fans tend to be more into basketball than most other conferences,It becomes more valuable for The ACC network.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2019 05:47 PM by adcorbett.)
06-02-2019 05:47 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: 2018 P5 Conference Revenue Distribution - B1G cashes in
(06-02-2019 05:47 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 11:05 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 01:53 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 12:16 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(06-01-2019 09:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Well let's see. The average rate for the SEC (in footprint and out combined) is .74 cents per subscription. The average rate for the Big 10 (in footprint and out combined) is .49 cents. The average rate for the PAC (in footprint and out combined) is .11 cents. The SEC draws more viewers than anyone. The SEC has the highest % of actual viewers vs potential viewers within its own footprint than any other conference and the SEC makes about 8 million off of the SECN. The ACC is tied with the PAC for the fewest number of actual viewers vs potential viewers and is 5th nationally in viewership. So you tell me what kind of rate the ACC is going to get!

With ESPN's help and bundled with the SECN in a package, I expect the ACC to do much better than the PAC because the PAC has nobody pushing their carriage. They love totally owning their product. The ad thing is that 100% of little is still only a little. I think if the ACCN gets an average .35 cents they should be ecstatic. I also think .25 cents is possible. Based on your numbers anything more than .35 cents is a gift.

If fb was all the ACC had to offer then I might agree. But the ACC has 4 of the 10 Ten winning-est programs of all times in bb. Basketball is going to be the ace in the hole for the ACC with programs like Virginia and Notre Dame engaging viewers. I think the ACC does much better than .35 cents and much closer to the SEC. That along with ESPN having the experience getting the SECN on to cable systems and having the hindsight of do's and dont's, with that whole experience will help the ACCN surprise a bunch of folks.

It doesn't matter what you think they deserve or even what I think they deserve, what matters are the ratings and ad revenue and 80% of that is football and it's the consumer that sets those priorities. If you have a large market share it will pay. But nothing from the numbers indicates that to be the case. No doubt that the ACC will carry the Mid-Atlantic and New England markets for hoops but those are regional numbers. You are going to need a strong draw nationally in football to keep pace with the SEC and your numbers just aren't there.

As far as do and don't goes there aren't many. ESPN handles the carriage set ups and the overhead is to standardize production facilities so any of their personnel can operate them and so equipment coordinates between the school and network.

I've said that I feel you guys can make between 5 to 8 million in 4 or 5 years time. But you'll likely start around 3 million per school just like the Big 10 and SEC did. It takes time for consumers to find you and watch you enough to get habituated. It will take time.

ESPN can provide you with subscribers, what they can't do is force those subscribers to watch in sufficient numbers to guarantee a rate which is really set by the advertiser and passed on to you by the network. If you want more money get more people to watch. It's really just that simple.

You are correct about what you and I think doesnt matter. But what folks in positions to know and to see these things thru, seem to have a more positive view of the ACCN first year. I remember seeing articles about the SECN first year generating $5per team. Then seeing posters put up info about the SECN doing even better at $7 million per team. Now its $3 million per team?

I also dont believe that 80% of of conference network revenue coming from fb. That was a number that was thrown around years ago by a conference higher up regarding what ESPN was paying a particular conference, even before conference networks started to take hold. I think it would be different with a conference network. Especially for a league like the ACC. Delaney once said that it was BIG basketball that really helped to get the BIGN gain traction because the season was so long.

This is correct. While the general rule is 80% of money comes from football, it is just that, a general rule. Conference networks, for example the big ten network, made a much higher percentage of money from basketball, and in fact was much more responsible for their growth than football, a seven big ten people weren’t enthused by games vs fcs schools and Lower level schools. But when teams were missing marquee basketball games, they started joining direct tv en masse, to stop kissing games.

Becuase the content on conference networks is far superior for basketball than football (you get marquee basketball matchups, while football
Matchups beyond orchestrated matchups to set up the network), and because acc fans tend to be more into basketball than most other conferences,It becomes more valuable for The ACC network.

The best course of action for the ACC people is to just keep your mouth shut until the numbers are in for real. If officials pump up expectations and it comes in flat or worse it's a huge negative. If the numbers come in higher than the public expects then it is an unmitigated success. But the only reason I and a few others have commented on it is that there is a track record now for conference network startups and without question the SEC and Big 10 are huge draws. If your conference can't finish above 4th for T1 and T2 telecasts for a year then how do realistically expect to out earn the BTN which I suppose might not have all of the advantages of ESPN pushing carriage, but the leader is the SEC and the numbers your leadership is tossing out is higher than our best earning years and we have all of those ESPN advantages too. So forgive me if I remain majorly skeptical of these high claims that defy what we already know to be reality.

And btw the Big 10 has pretty solid basketball content as well and the SEC of late has been getting stronger. Your interest in hoops is regional and the advertising money isn't as good.
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2019 06:31 PM by JRsec.)
06-02-2019 06:25 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #33
RE: 2018 P5 Conference Revenue Distribution - B1G cashes in
JR, old friend, I’m not predicting anything. I am now too many years removed to give anything but an opinion. I was simply relaying facts about how it works. For most conference networks (non-sec) basketball is a bigger deal because of content value to the customer. Which you of all people should understand, because you always talk about it.
06-02-2019 11:02 PM
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CardinalJim Offline
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RE: 2018 P5 Conference Revenue Distribution - B1G cashes in
The advantage The ACC Network has will be quality content that fans will want to watch. ACC Football (NCAA Champion) to ACC Basketball (NCAA Champion) to ACC Baseball (4 Teams still playing). Along with quality Olympic sports coverage.

I suspect I am not alone in looking forward to it.

I have ESPN, ESPN Plus, The SEC Network and expect The ACC Network will be a nice compliment to my lineup.
06-03-2019 08:09 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: 2018 P5 Conference Revenue Distribution - B1G cashes in
(06-02-2019 06:25 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The best course of action for the ACC people is to just keep your mouth shut until the numbers are in for real. If officials pump up expectations and it comes in flat or worse it's a huge negative. If the numbers come in higher than the public expects then it is an unmitigated success.

Agreed. Always better to lower expectations.

Personally, I expect the ACCN to do pretty well. It is launching at a time when the ACC is at a peak of performance in both football (well, Clemson) and basketball, and, the ACC gets the benefit of ESPN's learning curve having launched the SECN.

FWIW, FSU is anticipating a $3m boost in the first year of the ACC, and that probably is a conservative figure because it is for budgeting purposes.

The ACCN likely will not bring in BTN or SECN money but it will do quite well and add a nice and growing pot of cash for ACC schools. We shall see soon enough.
06-03-2019 08:54 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #36
RE: 2018 P5 Conference Revenue Distribution - B1G cashes in
(06-03-2019 08:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 06:25 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The best course of action for the ACC people is to just keep your mouth shut until the numbers are in for real. If officials pump up expectations and it comes in flat or worse it's a huge negative. If the numbers come in higher than the public expects then it is an unmitigated success.

Agreed. Always better to lower expectations.

Personally, I expect the ACCN to do pretty well. It is launching at a time when the ACC is at a peak of performance in both football (well, Clemson) and basketball, and, the ACC gets the benefit of ESPN's learning curve having launched the SECN.

FWIW, FSU is anticipating a $3m boost in the first year of the ACC, and that probably is a conservative figure because it is for budgeting purposes.

The ACCN likely will not bring in BTN or SECN money but it will do quite well and add a nice and growing pot of cash for ACC schools. We shall see soon enough.

Realistically, 3 million is probably close to right for the first year, 5 if they are very fortunate. In the end what the ACCN will do for the ACC is catch them up to the little 8 of the Big 12. The gap with the Big 10 and SEC will remain as will the gap with Texas and Oklahoma, and that's if UT and OU don't move by 2025. If they do move and move to either the SEC and/or Big 10 then the gap will grow and in the words of the POTUS, "Bigly."
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2019 11:04 AM by JRsec.)
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: 2018 P5 Conference Revenue Distribution - B1G cashes in
(06-03-2019 08:09 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  The advantage The ACC Network has will be quality content that fans will want to watch. ACC Football (NCAA Champion) to ACC Basketball (NCAA Champion) to ACC Baseball (4 Teams still playing). Along with quality Olympic sports coverage.

ACC hoops is outstanding entertainment, of course. But ACC football? Yes, the ACC has the national champ in football (though not the NCAA champ, there is no such thing), but ACC football right now is basically Clemson.

I mean, is there really going to be much interest in watching Clemson mow through the ACC schedule yet again like FSU did in the 1990s? Outside of Clemson, there isn't a lot of compelling ACC football action, and I think that's true even within the ACC - e.g., does anyone in either Boston or Tallahassee care about an FSU vs BC football game?

IMO, ACC football isn't very compelling right now objectively (i.e., from the casual fan's POV) and it's never been much internally either.
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2019 07:16 AM by quo vadis.)
06-05-2019 07:14 AM
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