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11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
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Mr.BigBlue Offline
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Post: #61
RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
(06-03-2019 09:00 AM)DaBigBlue Wrote:  The good guy with a gun is crazy. Can't even imagine an active shooting situation. First the shooter, now four guys go after who they think is the shooter, but run into others with guns. Now the police show up and we have five civilians with guns shooting at each other. What a mess that would be, remember that the shootout lasted almost 30 minutes. Are the good guys strapped with extra clips, AK-47 with banana clips. Maybe go to work with a vest and a Rambo belt. Now take a campus like VaBeach municipal center, with 30 buildings. What if 20-50 good guys started running around with guns pulled. I can't even imagine.

Nope...the shooter would be down before the police arrive. Far from crazy.
06-03-2019 02:09 PM
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Mr.BigBlue Offline
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Post: #62
RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
(06-03-2019 01:10 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  I think if you are going to kill someone it should be tough to do, pulling a trigger is just too easy. But, since that isn't realistic, it should be tough to own a firearm, and if you own it, and it is used in a crime the penalty should be harsh as well.

And with apologies to all the very sane and competent gun owners out there...we do not need everyone running around with a gun. We would be inviting chaos.

Tell that to the bad guys and watch what happens. If you don't have a mental issue everyone should be allowed to carry after training. Doesn't mean everyone will but anyone thinking about doing something bad should understand the people around him might be carrying and their attempt might be stopped pretty quickly. It is crazy to think people want everyone to give up their guns so only the bad guys will have them.
06-03-2019 02:12 PM
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mturn017 Online
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Post: #63
RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
(06-03-2019 01:35 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 01:10 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  I think if you are going to kill someone it should be tough to do, pulling a trigger is just too easy. But, since that isn't realistic, it should be tough to own a firearm, and if you own it, and it is used in a crime the penalty should be harsh as well.

And with apologies to all the very sane and competent gun owners out there...we do not need everyone running around with a gun. We would be inviting chaos.

This thought that everyone is going to be running around with a gun or that having a gun makes you dangerous is ridiculous.

Im all for taking the gun out of the hands of bad guys, but I don't see any proposal that does so. Drugs are illegal and they aren't going away.

Not exactly apples to apples. Think about if you wanted a box of grenades. A lot harder to find than a dime bag. What about fully automatic weapons? It's been a few decades since they were fully banned in the US, my understanding is it would cost you thousands to tens of thousands to obtain one on the black market. So bad guys can still get them but not your average bad guy. The same is true with semiautomatic weapons in countries that have banned them. It's all supply and demand. I have a gun or two. Don't especially want them, didn't really seek them out but I have them. It's ridiculously easy to obtain a firearm in this country. The dime bag would be harder for me to get at this point than a gun. There needs to be something done at the federal level though or it won't work. State laws limiting gun sales have no teeth because it's extremely easy to move guns across state borders. There's no easy answers. It's all a matter of what sacrifices we want to make. Freedom versus security. The Libertarian in me thinks we should be able to throw grenades in our back 40 if that's what makes us happy and in a better world it would be that way but we've got a problem with gun violence in this country and restricting access is the easiest way to handle it. But like I said, I'm not really into guns and it's real easy to give away freedoms that you don't care about.

Incredibly sad. Thoughts to all of you who knew the victims.
06-03-2019 02:25 PM
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ODUBB35 Online
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Post: #64
RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
Cellphones and vehicles are far more dangerous. Find a law that prevents this from happening, then we'll discuss what gun laws can and cannot do.
06-03-2019 02:26 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #65
RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
(06-03-2019 02:25 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 01:35 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 01:10 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  I think if you are going to kill someone it should be tough to do, pulling a trigger is just too easy. But, since that isn't realistic, it should be tough to own a firearm, and if you own it, and it is used in a crime the penalty should be harsh as well.

And with apologies to all the very sane and competent gun owners out there...we do not need everyone running around with a gun. We would be inviting chaos.

This thought that everyone is going to be running around with a gun or that having a gun makes you dangerous is ridiculous.

Im all for taking the gun out of the hands of bad guys, but I don't see any proposal that does so. Drugs are illegal and they aren't going away.

Not exactly apples to apples. Think about if you wanted a box of grenades. A lot harder to find than a dime bag. What about fully automatic weapons? It's been a few decades since they were fully banned in the US, my understanding is it would cost you thousands to tens of thousands to obtain one on the black market. So bad guys can still get them but not your average bad guy. The same is true with semiautomatic weapons in countries that have banned them. It's all supply and demand. I have a gun or two. Don't especially want them, didn't really seek them out but I have them. It's ridiculously easy to obtain a firearm in this country. The dime bag would be harder for me to get at this point than a gun. There needs to be something done at the federal level though or it won't work. State laws limiting gun sales have no teeth because it's extremely easy to move guns across state borders. There's no easy answers. It's all a matter of what sacrifices we want to make. Freedom versus security. The Libertarian in me thinks we should be able to throw grenades in our back 40 if that's what makes us happy and in a better world it would be that way but we've got a problem with gun violence in this country and restricting access is the easiest way to handle it. But like I said, I'm not really into guns and it's real easy to give away freedoms that you don't care about.

Incredibly sad. Thoughts to all of you who knew the victims.

The point is you will always be able to get guns just like you will always be able to get drugs. Im all for getting guns out of the hands of bad guys....how do we do it? The only proposals I've seen take guns out of the hands of good guys.

I wish we lived in a society where no guns were needed. It's just not possible. Until that is possible, I retain the right to defend myself.
06-03-2019 02:39 PM
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mturn017 Online
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Post: #66
RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
(06-03-2019 02:39 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 02:25 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 01:35 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 01:10 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  I think if you are going to kill someone it should be tough to do, pulling a trigger is just too easy. But, since that isn't realistic, it should be tough to own a firearm, and if you own it, and it is used in a crime the penalty should be harsh as well.

And with apologies to all the very sane and competent gun owners out there...we do not need everyone running around with a gun. We would be inviting chaos.

This thought that everyone is going to be running around with a gun or that having a gun makes you dangerous is ridiculous.

Im all for taking the gun out of the hands of bad guys, but I don't see any proposal that does so. Drugs are illegal and they aren't going away.

Not exactly apples to apples. Think about if you wanted a box of grenades. A lot harder to find than a dime bag. What about fully automatic weapons? It's been a few decades since they were fully banned in the US, my understanding is it would cost you thousands to tens of thousands to obtain one on the black market. So bad guys can still get them but not your average bad guy. The same is true with semiautomatic weapons in countries that have banned them. It's all supply and demand. I have a gun or two. Don't especially want them, didn't really seek them out but I have them. It's ridiculously easy to obtain a firearm in this country. The dime bag would be harder for me to get at this point than a gun. There needs to be something done at the federal level though or it won't work. State laws limiting gun sales have no teeth because it's extremely easy to move guns across state borders. There's no easy answers. It's all a matter of what sacrifices we want to make. Freedom versus security. The Libertarian in me thinks we should be able to throw grenades in our back 40 if that's what makes us happy and in a better world it would be that way but we've got a problem with gun violence in this country and restricting access is the easiest way to handle it. But like I said, I'm not really into guns and it's real easy to give away freedoms that you don't care about.

Incredibly sad. Thoughts to all of you who knew the victims.

The point is you will always be able to get guns just like you will always be able to get drugs. Im all for getting guns out of the hands of bad guys....how do we do it? The only proposals I've seen take guns out of the hands of good guys.

I wish we lived in a society where no guns were needed. It's just not possible. Until that is possible, I retain the right to defend myself.

But you'll have to try harder to get a gun. And price prohibition could put it out of the reach of most. Restricting the supply, the availability and the ease of access would absolutely reduce gun violence. Are you against jumping through hoops to get your guns? Do you need them on the shelves of Wal-Marts? Do you need clips that can hold 20+ rounds? Are you against a national database that actually works? Then after your multiple background checks, waiting periods, training classes, etc. you can have your gun the same as you do now. I'll gladly give mine up and rely on my ADT system, large dog, baseball bat and bear spray to protect myself and my family. The illegal guns would slowly but surely get confiscated, supply on the black market would reduce, price would go up and not every slack jawed yokel would have a gun. Gun violence would decrease.
06-03-2019 02:52 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #67
RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
(06-03-2019 02:52 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 02:39 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 02:25 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 01:35 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 01:10 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  I think if you are going to kill someone it should be tough to do, pulling a trigger is just too easy. But, since that isn't realistic, it should be tough to own a firearm, and if you own it, and it is used in a crime the penalty should be harsh as well.

And with apologies to all the very sane and competent gun owners out there...we do not need everyone running around with a gun. We would be inviting chaos.

This thought that everyone is going to be running around with a gun or that having a gun makes you dangerous is ridiculous.

Im all for taking the gun out of the hands of bad guys, but I don't see any proposal that does so. Drugs are illegal and they aren't going away.

Not exactly apples to apples. Think about if you wanted a box of grenades. A lot harder to find than a dime bag. What about fully automatic weapons? It's been a few decades since they were fully banned in the US, my understanding is it would cost you thousands to tens of thousands to obtain one on the black market. So bad guys can still get them but not your average bad guy. The same is true with semiautomatic weapons in countries that have banned them. It's all supply and demand. I have a gun or two. Don't especially want them, didn't really seek them out but I have them. It's ridiculously easy to obtain a firearm in this country. The dime bag would be harder for me to get at this point than a gun. There needs to be something done at the federal level though or it won't work. State laws limiting gun sales have no teeth because it's extremely easy to move guns across state borders. There's no easy answers. It's all a matter of what sacrifices we want to make. Freedom versus security. The Libertarian in me thinks we should be able to throw grenades in our back 40 if that's what makes us happy and in a better world it would be that way but we've got a problem with gun violence in this country and restricting access is the easiest way to handle it. But like I said, I'm not really into guns and it's real easy to give away freedoms that you don't care about.

Incredibly sad. Thoughts to all of you who knew the victims.

The point is you will always be able to get guns just like you will always be able to get drugs. Im all for getting guns out of the hands of bad guys....how do we do it? The only proposals I've seen take guns out of the hands of good guys.

I wish we lived in a society where no guns were needed. It's just not possible. Until that is possible, I retain the right to defend myself.

But you'll have to try harder to get a gun. And price prohibition could put it out of the reach of most. Restricting the supply, the availability and the ease of access would absolutely reduce gun violence. Are you against jumping through hoops to get your guns? Do you need them on the shelves of Wal-Marts? Do you need clips that can hold 20+ rounds? Are you against a national database that actually works? Then after your multiple background checks, waiting periods, training classes, etc. you can have your gun the same as you do now. I'll gladly give mine up and rely on my ADT system, large dog, baseball bat and bear spray to protect myself and my family. The illegal guns would slowly but surely get confiscated, supply on the black market would reduce, price would go up and not every slack jawed yokel would have a gun. Gun violence would decrease.

If that was the case, then why is gun violence so prevalent in areas that have the strictest gun control laws?

It is pretty difficult to legally purchase a gun now; whether they are on Wal-Mart shelves or not. It's easy to get one on the black market.

Not every slack jawed yokel has a gun now. Its just the minority that goes and does stupid **** that makes it seem like it.
06-03-2019 03:03 PM
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mturn017 Online
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Post: #68
RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
(06-03-2019 03:03 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 02:52 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 02:39 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 02:25 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 01:35 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  This thought that everyone is going to be running around with a gun or that having a gun makes you dangerous is ridiculous.

Im all for taking the gun out of the hands of bad guys, but I don't see any proposal that does so. Drugs are illegal and they aren't going away.

Not exactly apples to apples. Think about if you wanted a box of grenades. A lot harder to find than a dime bag. What about fully automatic weapons? It's been a few decades since they were fully banned in the US, my understanding is it would cost you thousands to tens of thousands to obtain one on the black market. So bad guys can still get them but not your average bad guy. The same is true with semiautomatic weapons in countries that have banned them. It's all supply and demand. I have a gun or two. Don't especially want them, didn't really seek them out but I have them. It's ridiculously easy to obtain a firearm in this country. The dime bag would be harder for me to get at this point than a gun. There needs to be something done at the federal level though or it won't work. State laws limiting gun sales have no teeth because it's extremely easy to move guns across state borders. There's no easy answers. It's all a matter of what sacrifices we want to make. Freedom versus security. The Libertarian in me thinks we should be able to throw grenades in our back 40 if that's what makes us happy and in a better world it would be that way but we've got a problem with gun violence in this country and restricting access is the easiest way to handle it. But like I said, I'm not really into guns and it's real easy to give away freedoms that you don't care about.

Incredibly sad. Thoughts to all of you who knew the victims.

The point is you will always be able to get guns just like you will always be able to get drugs. Im all for getting guns out of the hands of bad guys....how do we do it? The only proposals I've seen take guns out of the hands of good guys.

I wish we lived in a society where no guns were needed. It's just not possible. Until that is possible, I retain the right to defend myself.

But you'll have to try harder to get a gun. And price prohibition could put it out of the reach of most. Restricting the supply, the availability and the ease of access would absolutely reduce gun violence. Are you against jumping through hoops to get your guns? Do you need them on the shelves of Wal-Marts? Do you need clips that can hold 20+ rounds? Are you against a national database that actually works? Then after your multiple background checks, waiting periods, training classes, etc. you can have your gun the same as you do now. I'll gladly give mine up and rely on my ADT system, large dog, baseball bat and bear spray to protect myself and my family. The illegal guns would slowly but surely get confiscated, supply on the black market would reduce, price would go up and not every slack jawed yokel would have a gun. Gun violence would decrease.

If that was the case, then why is gun violence so prevalent in areas that have the strictest gun control laws?
It's typically not, you're mistaken.


It is pretty difficult to legally purchase a gun now; whether they are on Wal-Mart shelves or not. It's easy to get one on the black market.
I'll sell you two guns right now. Meet me at the Wal-Mart parking lot. Not stolen.
No background check required. Perfectly legal.


Not every slack jawed yokel has a gun now. Its just the minority that goes and does stupid **** that makes it seem like it.
Really? There's more guns than people in the country right now.
(This post was last modified: 06-03-2019 03:18 PM by mturn017.)
06-03-2019 03:13 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #69
RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
(06-03-2019 03:13 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 03:03 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 02:52 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 02:39 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 02:25 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  Not exactly apples to apples. Think about if you wanted a box of grenades. A lot harder to find than a dime bag. What about fully automatic weapons? It's been a few decades since they were fully banned in the US, my understanding is it would cost you thousands to tens of thousands to obtain one on the black market. So bad guys can still get them but not your average bad guy. The same is true with semiautomatic weapons in countries that have banned them. It's all supply and demand. I have a gun or two. Don't especially want them, didn't really seek them out but I have them. It's ridiculously easy to obtain a firearm in this country. The dime bag would be harder for me to get at this point than a gun. There needs to be something done at the federal level though or it won't work. State laws limiting gun sales have no teeth because it's extremely easy to move guns across state borders. There's no easy answers. It's all a matter of what sacrifices we want to make. Freedom versus security. The Libertarian in me thinks we should be able to throw grenades in our back 40 if that's what makes us happy and in a better world it would be that way but we've got a problem with gun violence in this country and restricting access is the easiest way to handle it. But like I said, I'm not really into guns and it's real easy to give away freedoms that you don't care about.

Incredibly sad. Thoughts to all of you who knew the victims.

The point is you will always be able to get guns just like you will always be able to get drugs. Im all for getting guns out of the hands of bad guys....how do we do it? The only proposals I've seen take guns out of the hands of good guys.

I wish we lived in a society where no guns were needed. It's just not possible. Until that is possible, I retain the right to defend myself.

But you'll have to try harder to get a gun. And price prohibition could put it out of the reach of most. Restricting the supply, the availability and the ease of access would absolutely reduce gun violence. Are you against jumping through hoops to get your guns? Do you need them on the shelves of Wal-Marts? Do you need clips that can hold 20+ rounds? Are you against a national database that actually works? Then after your multiple background checks, waiting periods, training classes, etc. you can have your gun the same as you do now. I'll gladly give mine up and rely on my ADT system, large dog, baseball bat and bear spray to protect myself and my family. The illegal guns would slowly but surely get confiscated, supply on the black market would reduce, price would go up and not every slack jawed yokel would have a gun. Gun violence would decrease.

If that was the case, then why is gun violence so prevalent in areas that have the strictest gun control laws?
It's typically not, you're mistaken.


It is pretty difficult to legally purchase a gun now; whether they are on Wal-Mart shelves or not. It's easy to get one on the black market.
I'll sell you two guns right now. Meet me at the Wal-Mart parking lot. Not stolen.
No background check required. Perfectly legal.


Not every slack jawed yokel has a gun now. Its just the minority that goes and does stupid **** that makes it seem like it.
Really? There's more guns than people in the country right now. [/b]

Exactly, it's extremely easy to get on the black market. It will always be that way. You arent going to stop people from illegally buying/selling guns.

About 33% of the population own guns. Many have a large cache of weapons. (like myself, but most just stay in the safe)

https://www.smh.com.au/business/freakono...zrkjc.html
06-03-2019 03:30 PM
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mturn017 Online
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Post: #70
RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
(06-03-2019 03:30 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 03:13 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 03:03 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 02:52 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 02:39 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  The point is you will always be able to get guns just like you will always be able to get drugs. Im all for getting guns out of the hands of bad guys....how do we do it? The only proposals I've seen take guns out of the hands of good guys.

I wish we lived in a society where no guns were needed. It's just not possible. Until that is possible, I retain the right to defend myself.

But you'll have to try harder to get a gun. And price prohibition could put it out of the reach of most. Restricting the supply, the availability and the ease of access would absolutely reduce gun violence. Are you against jumping through hoops to get your guns? Do you need them on the shelves of Wal-Marts? Do you need clips that can hold 20+ rounds? Are you against a national database that actually works? Then after your multiple background checks, waiting periods, training classes, etc. you can have your gun the same as you do now. I'll gladly give mine up and rely on my ADT system, large dog, baseball bat and bear spray to protect myself and my family. The illegal guns would slowly but surely get confiscated, supply on the black market would reduce, price would go up and not every slack jawed yokel would have a gun. Gun violence would decrease.

If that was the case, then why is gun violence so prevalent in areas that have the strictest gun control laws?
It's typically not, you're mistaken.


It is pretty difficult to legally purchase a gun now; whether they are on Wal-Mart shelves or not. It's easy to get one on the black market.
I'll sell you two guns right now. Meet me at the Wal-Mart parking lot. Not stolen.
No background check required. Perfectly legal.


Not every slack jawed yokel has a gun now. Its just the minority that goes and does stupid **** that makes it seem like it.
Really? There's more guns than people in the country right now. [/b]

Exactly, it's extremely easy to get on the black market. It will always be that way. You arent going to stop people from illegally buying/selling guns.

About 33% of the population own guns. Many have a large cache of weapons. (like myself, but most just stay in the safe)

https://www.smh.com.au/business/freakono...zrkjc.html

What part of what I said are you agreeing with? The Wal-Mart parking lot thing? That's not black market, that's just market. If we made those kinds of sales illegal I wouldn't sell my guns to you and you wouldn't buy yours that way because we're law abiding citizens. It might be an inconvenience but how do I know if Giles is a good guy or bad? Say instead we had to meet at the local gun shop. Pay them a brokerage fee and they run the background check and then our exchange can be completed. As is, in VA at least I can sell my guns to a complete stranger without any repercussions. Now if I bought a bunch of guns and trafficked them to NY or if I made that into a business then there would be laws preventing that. Which brings us to your article:

"In a podcast How to Think About Guns, he and economist and Freakonomics co-author Stephen Dubner explain, with their usual style of easy-to-digest facts and figures, why state-based gun bans are ineffective for reducing gun crime."

I said in my first post that state level or even worse local level laws are impotent. And that's what this guy is referring to. Maybe that's why you think gun laws don't or can't work. If we don't do it at the Federal level then it's pointless. The US has a lot of guns and a lot of gun crime compared to other wealthy countries with stronger regulations. That's the comparison that should be made.

So with weapons that have an all out federal ban, how easy are they to get on the black market? Do you hear much about shooting's in the US with AK 47's? Uzi's? Grenades? RPG's? Not so much. It's the otherwise legal weapons that are easy to obtain. And usually they are bought in an area with low regulations and taken to NYC or Chicago and resold to criminals.
06-03-2019 03:59 PM
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Grommet Offline
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Post: #71
RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
I'm not reading all that. Three points:

1- Sports forum. There's a political forum on CSN that would seem to be a better choice.

2- From a mental health worker I know with who posted on Facebook (paraphrased, & from memory): The single variable that can predict mass shootings is the media, especially the consumption of online stories of mass shootings. No other variables explored (in a recent study of mass shootings, I think), including gun ownership, wealth/poverty, mental illness, etc were reliable indicators.

3- There are stories out there about how the shooter was becoming increasingly violent over the past several weeks/months. One of the deceased allegedly knew about it and expressed 'grave concern' to a colleague.
06-03-2019 07:06 PM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #72
11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
There is absolutely nothing that can be done, as far as legislation is concerned, to stop this from happening. This is a culture problem stemming from mass communication and lack of individual attention. All this started with Columbine. What happened there? First wave of people that grew up (or raised by) with the internet just went through puberty. When I grew up, if my parents didn't give me attention, it was turn on Leave it to Beaver or The Brady Bunch. Really no harm, no foul. Now they can go wherever their mind takes them and have people cheering them along the way.

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06-04-2019 06:00 AM
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Justanodufan Offline
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Post: #73
RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
(06-03-2019 07:20 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-03-2019 06:12 AM)eastcoastDave Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 09:47 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 07:39 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 07:16 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  There has yet to be any shooter who was mentally ill. It’s a cop out for people to justify a person’s actions.

People always say a good person with a gun would have stopped this. How do you know who a good person? You don’t. Adding more guns to a situation (like this) will create more casualties.

A good person with a gun did stop it. Unfortunately it took too long for them to get there.

I assume MrBigBlue was referring to a citizen having a gun not a cop.

The “good guy with a gun” was actually four police officers trained in active shooting drills and who were wearing protective vests. One officer was shot, saved by the vest. A (meaning 1) good guy with a gun likely would not have been wearing a protective vest. Had the good guy been shot, he/she likely would have been killed. There are many, many mass shootings, but I have never heard of a “good guy with a gun” actually stopping one of these sprees. It’s a total fallacy that more guns is a good idea. Save for a time in the military, I have never owned or fired a gun. I don’t feel unsafe, intimidated or small. I do fear someone who has a gun strapped to his/her hip. My granddaughter, in kindergarten, had to participate in active shooter drills at her school. It scared her. It scares me every day she has to go to school because I worry about her being a target of someone who wakes up one day and decided to kill people. Life shouldn’t be like that.

FWIW, there are tons of examples of concealed carry citizens stopping mass shootings. Often they are stopped before it becomes a mass shooting. The most notable i stance was the politician in Arizona.

Many of these mass shootings occur in areas where you cannot legally carry a gun. I believe that you cannot carry in a municipal building.

Prior to Friday’s shooting, the shooter would have been considered a “good person with a gun”, so unless you have some crystal ball that can predict the future, there is no damn way to determine who a “good person with a gun” is outside of law enforcement (and that’s not even a given)
06-04-2019 08:39 AM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #74
RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
(06-04-2019 06:00 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  There is absolutely nothing that can be done, as far as legislation is concerned, to stop this from happening. This is a culture problem stemming from mass communication and lack of individual attention. All this started with Columbine. What happened there? First wave of people that grew up (or raised by) with the internet just went through puberty. When I grew up, if my parents didn't give me attention, it was turn on Leave it to Beaver or The Brady Bunch. Really no harm, no foul. Now they can go wherever their mind takes them and have people cheering them along the way.

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This started before columbine, FWIW.
06-04-2019 09:36 AM
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RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
(06-04-2019 09:36 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-04-2019 06:00 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  There is absolutely nothing that can be done, as far as legislation is concerned, to stop this from happening. This is a culture problem stemming from mass communication and lack of individual attention. All this started with Columbine. What happened there? First wave of people that grew up (or raised by) with the internet just went through puberty. When I grew up, if my parents didn't give me attention, it was turn on Leave it to Beaver or The Brady Bunch. Really no harm, no foul. Now they can go wherever their mind takes them and have people cheering them along the way.

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This started before columbine, FWIW.

There were a handful before Columbine.... the guy in the 80s that "went postal", the clock tower in the 60s. They were not happening like this.
06-04-2019 11:26 AM
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RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
(06-04-2019 06:00 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  There is absolutely nothing that can be done, as far as legislation is concerned, to stop this from happening. This is a culture problem stemming from mass communication and lack of individual attention. All this started with Columbine. What happened there? First wave of people that grew up (or raised by) with the internet just went through puberty. When I grew up, if my parents didn't give me attention, it was turn on Leave it to Beaver or The Brady Bunch. Really no harm, no foul. Now they can go wherever their mind takes them and have people cheering them along the way.

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Or even better, go outside. When I was growing up, outside of Saturday Mornings, there was not a lot of programming for kids period. Nickelodeon came along at some point I guess. But most of my free time was spent hanging out with neighborhood kids. I remember playing some throwback football or something and a kid gets mad at another and they fight and the next day it was like it never happened. I'm not sure that's a skill kids are gaining these days. To just let **** go. There's a lot of crazy **** on the internet for sure and beyond the content it's replacing actual human interaction in a lot of ways.

I think in general, you're right. It's a cultural issue. I do think there are some changes that could be made that could save lives regarding gun control and I think most Americans could get behind those efforts if we had honest conversations. But stop it? No we can't legislatively stop it.
06-04-2019 12:16 PM
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EverRespect Offline
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RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
(06-04-2019 12:16 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(06-04-2019 06:00 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  There is absolutely nothing that can be done, as far as legislation is concerned, to stop this from happening. This is a culture problem stemming from mass communication and lack of individual attention. All this started with Columbine. What happened there? First wave of people that grew up (or raised by) with the internet just went through puberty. When I grew up, if my parents didn't give me attention, it was turn on Leave it to Beaver or The Brady Bunch. Really no harm, no foul. Now they can go wherever their mind takes them and have people cheering them along the way.

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Or even better, go outside. When I was growing up, outside of Saturday Mornings, there was not a lot of programming for kids period. Nickelodeon came along at some point I guess. But most of my free time was spent hanging out with neighborhood kids. I remember playing some throwback football or something and a kid gets mad at another and they fight and the next day it was like it never happened. I'm not sure that's a skill kids are gaining these days. To just let **** go. There's a lot of crazy **** on the internet for sure and beyond the content it's replacing actual human interaction in a lot of ways.

I think in general, you're right. It's a cultural issue. I do think there are some changes that could be made that could save lives regarding gun control and I think most Americans could get behind those efforts if we had honest conversations. But stop it? No we can't legislatively stop it.

Gun control is a tough issue as is internet control. You could probably put a dent in it by controlling what can be consumed over the internet as well (and blocking information from being transmitted across the border without an ITAR license). You aren't even allowed to say the F word on the radio or show a pair of boobs on cable TV (outside of premium channels), but anyone with an internet device can access hardcore porn or Reddit threads about maximizing casualties in a shooting spree? Yes, there are a couple of ways to legislate what may lead to a reduction if you can overcome the first 2 Amendments. Maybe if the content allowed on the free internet was limited to what is allowed on free and packaged TV and others could get licenses to allow for premium services like they can for HBO to allow other legal content (like internet porn)… perhaps there is a legal way to prevent people from getting too far down the road of mental destruction? But how much control are we willing to give up?
(This post was last modified: 06-04-2019 12:32 PM by EverRespect.)
06-04-2019 12:31 PM
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Old Blue Offline
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Post: #78
RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
(06-02-2019 04:40 PM)eastcoastDave Wrote:  Have we become numb to these shootings? 13 dead. 58. 32. 17. 21. When will it stop? Will it ever? I mourn for the victims. They were local people. Folks who live in our communities, went to our schools, drove past us in their cars, ate at the same restaurants we do. All of this really breaks my heart. Our lawmakers pass laws to regulate our speed, our seatbelt usage, whether or not abortions are legal and when, but somehow we can’t seem to enact sensible laws that prevent someone from picking up a gun and suddenly becoming a mass murderer. Thoughts and prayers just are not enough.
Yes by all means, let's take away the "Bill of Rights" the very cornerstone of our democracy. Sounds well reasoned. I for one am not willing to relinquish a single God given right, no matter what.

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06-04-2019 08:46 PM
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RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
Every gun on the black market was originally bought legally.
06-04-2019 11:06 PM
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Justanodufan Offline
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RE: 11 dead, six injured in shooting at Va. Beach Municipal Center
(06-04-2019 08:46 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  
(06-02-2019 04:40 PM)eastcoastDave Wrote:  Have we become numb to these shootings? 13 dead. 58. 32. 17. 21. When will it stop? Will it ever? I mourn for the victims. They were local people. Folks who live in our communities, went to our schools, drove past us in their cars, ate at the same restaurants we do. All of this really breaks my heart. Our lawmakers pass laws to regulate our speed, our seatbelt usage, whether or not abortions are legal and when, but somehow we can’t seem to enact sensible laws that prevent someone from picking up a gun and suddenly becoming a mass murderer. Thoughts and prayers just are not enough.
Yes by all means, let's take away the "Bill of Rights" the very cornerstone of our democracy. Sounds well reasoned. I for one am not willing to relinquish a single God given right, no matter what.

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Whoa never thought I would witness a pro gun and pro choice person...... but low and behold here one is...

Unless, of course, you meant you’re only for protecting your “God given rights”
06-04-2019 11:26 PM
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