(05-29-2019 07:19 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  I see a lot of depth being developed, with several potential go-to guys. THammock doesn't want to run out of gas mid-game, whether it's someone having a bad day, injury, their defense, whatever. Same at QB. Say what you want, but Bowers-Childers or Childers-Bowers is a better 1-2 than Northern has had in a long while. Both have something to prove, and both have proven something.

I know we like to act like NIU was the worst thing ever, but in 2016 Hare-Maddie was the 1-2 and either of those are better than Childers and Hare is likely better than Bowers.

(05-29-2019 07:26 PM)7 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 07:19 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  I see a lot of depth being developed, with several potential go-to guys. THammock doesn't want to run out of gas mid-game, whether it's someone having a bad day, injury, their defense, whatever. Same at QB. Say what you want, but Bowers-Childers or Childers-Bowers is a better 1-2 than Northern has had in a long while. Both have something to prove, and both have proven something.

I know we like to act like NIU was the worst thing ever, but in 2016 Hare-Maddie was the 1-2 and either of those are better than Childers and Hare is likely better than Bowers.

Typically I agree with you....but I will have to respectfully disagree here

We have a PAC-12 starter and a MAC Freshman of the Year... that's a pretty formidable duo

I can't imagine putting Childers and formidable in the same sentence. I'd pick Hare or Maddie over him. Bowers is probably as good as Hare or Maddie, maybe better.

(05-29-2019 07:43 PM)HawaiiToNIU Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 07:26 PM)7 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 07:19 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  I see a lot of depth being developed, with several potential go-to guys. THammock doesn't want to run out of gas mid-game, whether it's someone having a bad day, injury, their defense, whatever. Same at QB. Say what you want, but Bowers-Childers or Childers-Bowers is a better 1-2 than Northern has had in a long while. Both have something to prove, and both have proven something.

I know we like to act like NIU was the worst thing ever, but in 2016 Hare-Maddie was the 1-2 and either of those are better than Childers and Hare is likely better than Bowers.

Typically I agree with you....but I will have to respectfully disagree here

We have a PAC-12 starter and a MAC Freshman of the Year... that's a pretty formidable duo

Freshman of the year is the tallest midget award. And Childers play regressed his sophomore season. I agree that Bowers’ ceiling seems higher than Hare or Maddie but it’s still unproven. But with hindsight for Hare/Maddie and projecting for Bowers/Childers, I see both Hare and Maddie as high quality starters. I see Bowers as a potential great starter and Childers as a high quality back up. Pick your poison.

Look what I did with one errant word. I should have said "may be a better..." instead of "is a better..." Of course we haven't seen what Bowers-Childers or Childers-Bowers can do. My entire comment, however, was about what THammock & Co. are doing to increase depth/talent at key offense positions. The potential upside is pretty encouraging, and takes nothing away from the past. The excitement on this board is high for a whole bunch of justifiable reasons.

(Footnote: Northern finished 5-3/5-7 in 2016, third in MAC West).

I think Bowers is going to be good, but Hare is criminally underrated because of the two guys who played before him. He threw 37 TDs and 6 INTs in 28 games as a starter. If Bowers ends up being as good as Hare, NIU is gonna be real good.

(05-30-2019 08:52 AM)7 Wrote:  I think Bowers is going to be good, but Hare is criminally underrated because of the two guys who played before him. He threw 37 TDs and 6 INTs in 28 games as a starter. If Bowers ends up being as good as Hare, NIU is gonna be real good.

Hare's problem was staying healthy.

(05-30-2019 08:52 AM)7 Wrote:  I think Bowers is going to be good, but Hare is criminally underrated because of the two guys who played before him. He threw 37 TDs and 6 INTs in 28 games as a starter. If Bowers ends up being as good as Hare, NIU is gonna be real good.

Yea, that would be a substantial improvement if he was that good. And Bowers won't have the disadvantage in talent that he did playing at Cal against PAC teams, so his ceiling could be pretty high.

I remember Hare didn't play so well against Marshall though. The difference in QBs was the biggest difference.

(05-30-2019 09:56 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 08:52 AM)7 Wrote:  I think Bowers is going to be good, but Hare is criminally underrated because of the two guys who played before him. He threw 37 TDs and 6 INTs in 28 games as a starter. If Bowers ends up being as good as Hare, NIU is gonna be real good.

Yea, that would be a substantial improvement if he was that good. And Bowers won't have the disadvantage in talent that he did playing at Cal against PAC teams, so his ceiling could be pretty high.

I remember Hare didn't play so well against Marshall though. The difference in QBs was the biggest difference.

Rakeem Cato and Tommy Shuler connection...I'm surprised Shuler didn't even get to camp in the NFL

(05-30-2019 09:56 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 08:52 AM)7 Wrote:  I think Bowers is going to be good, but Hare is criminally underrated because of the two guys who played before him. He threw 37 TDs and 6 INTs in 28 games as a starter. If Bowers ends up being as good as Hare, NIU is gonna be real good.

Yea, that would be a substantial improvement if he was that good. And Bowers won't have the disadvantage in talent that he did playing at Cal against PAC teams, so his ceiling could be pretty high.

I remember Hare didn't play so well against Marshall though. The difference in QBs was the biggest difference.

Hare’s biggest attribute was efficiency. He wasn’t asked to air it out a ton. He was a 2,000 yd, 20 TD type qb. Far less production than the previous guys. It’s who Carey wanted Childers to be.

(05-30-2019 10:57 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 09:56 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 08:52 AM)7 Wrote:  I think Bowers is going to be good, but Hare is criminally underrated because of the two guys who played before him. He threw 37 TDs and 6 INTs in 28 games as a starter. If Bowers ends up being as good as Hare, NIU is gonna be real good.

Yea, that would be a substantial improvement if he was that good. And Bowers won't have the disadvantage in talent that he did playing at Cal against PAC teams, so his ceiling could be pretty high.

I remember Hare didn't play so well against Marshall though. The difference in QBs was the biggest difference.

Hare’s biggest attribute was efficiency. He wasn’t asked to air it out a ton. He was a 2,000 yd, 20 TD type qb. Far less production than the previous guys. It’s who Carey wanted Childers to be.

I disagree with that. Hare was set to break a bunch of the NIU passing records before his last two injury plagued seasons.

A more apt comparison would be Hare's first two seasons against Harnish's first two seasons. Lynch is a tougher comparison as he was already an upperclassman for his two seasons as starter.

Drew was set to have a monster year in 2015 before he went down. Looking at the Top 10 single-game passing records, both Harnish and Lynch make the list just once but Drew has 3 games on the list (all from 2015 season).

It always bugs me a bit when NIU fans talk about the golden era of QBs and only mention Harnish/Lynch, it should really be extended to include Harnish/Lynch/Hare.

(05-30-2019 11:14 AM)NorthCoast Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 10:57 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 09:56 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 08:52 AM)7 Wrote:  I think Bowers is going to be good, but Hare is criminally underrated because of the two guys who played before him. He threw 37 TDs and 6 INTs in 28 games as a starter. If Bowers ends up being as good as Hare, NIU is gonna be real good.

Yea, that would be a substantial improvement if he was that good. And Bowers won't have the disadvantage in talent that he did playing at Cal against PAC teams, so his ceiling could be pretty high.

I remember Hare didn't play so well against Marshall though. The difference in QBs was the biggest difference.

Hare’s biggest attribute was efficiency. He wasn’t asked to air it out a ton. He was a 2,000 yd, 20 TD type qb. Far less production than the previous guys. It’s who Carey wanted Childers to be.

I disagree with that. Hare was set to break a bunch of the NIU passing records before his last two-and-a-third injury plagued seasons.

A more apt comparison would be Hare's first two seasons against Harnish's first two seasons. Lynch is a tougher comparison as he was already an upperclassman for his two seasons as starter.

Drew was set to have a monster year in 2015 before he went down. Looking at the Top 10 single-game passing records, both Harnish and Lynch make the list just once but Drew has 3 games on the list (all from 2015 season).

It always bugs me a bit when NIU fans talk about the golden era of QBs and only mention Harnish/Lynch, it should really be extended to include Harnish/Lynch/Hare.

Totally agree here, the game that Hare fought and battled was UNLV for me. Horrible heat, UNLV kept fighting back, and Hare kept battling and was a leader. I liked Hare a lot, smart kid as well.

(05-30-2019 11:18 AM)MileHighHuskie Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 11:14 AM)NorthCoast Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 10:57 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 09:56 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 08:52 AM)7 Wrote:  I think Bowers is going to be good, but Hare is criminally underrated because of the two guys who played before him. He threw 37 TDs and 6 INTs in 28 games as a starter. If Bowers ends up being as good as Hare, NIU is gonna be real good.

Yea, that would be a substantial improvement if he was that good. And Bowers won't have the disadvantage in talent that he did playing at Cal against PAC teams, so his ceiling could be pretty high.

I remember Hare didn't play so well against Marshall though. The difference in QBs was the biggest difference.

Hare’s biggest attribute was efficiency. He wasn’t asked to air it out a ton. He was a 2,000 yd, 20 TD type qb. Far less production than the previous guys. It’s who Carey wanted Childers to be.

I disagree with that. Hare was set to break a bunch of the NIU passing records before his last two-and-a-third injury plagued seasons.

A more apt comparison would be Hare's first two seasons against Harnish's first two seasons. Lynch is a tougher comparison as he was already an upperclassman for his two seasons as starter.

Drew was set to have a monster year in 2015 before he went down. Looking at the Top 10 single-game passing records, both Harnish and Lynch make the list just once but Drew has 3 games on the list (all from 2015 season).

It always bugs me a bit when NIU fans talk about the golden era of QBs and only mention Harnish/Lynch, it should really be extended to include Harnish/Lynch/Hare.

Totally agree here, the game that Hare fought and battled was UNLV for me. Horrible heat, UNLV kept fighting back, and Hare kept battling and was a leader. I liked Hare a lot, smart kid as well.

That was a good game by Drew. It's 9th all-time single-game passing for NIU, Drew with 360yds in that game.

Top 10 single-game passing:
George Bork: 4 appearances
Drew Hare: 3 appearances
Harnish/Lynch: 1 appearance each.

And the last spot--#1 on the list with 486yds passing--is...

The Man.
The Legend.
The Great...

Phil Horvath.

(05-30-2019 11:18 AM)MileHighHuskie Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 11:14 AM)NorthCoast Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 10:57 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 09:56 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-30-2019 08:52 AM)7 Wrote:  I think Bowers is going to be good, but Hare is criminally underrated because of the two guys who played before him. He threw 37 TDs and 6 INTs in 28 games as a starter. If Bowers ends up being as good as Hare, NIU is gonna be real good.

Yea, that would be a substantial improvement if he was that good. And Bowers won't have the disadvantage in talent that he did playing at Cal against PAC teams, so his ceiling could be pretty high.

I remember Hare didn't play so well against Marshall though. The difference in QBs was the biggest difference.

Hare’s biggest attribute was efficiency. He wasn’t asked to air it out a ton. He was a 2,000 yd, 20 TD type qb. Far less production than the previous guys. It’s who Carey wanted Childers to be.

I disagree with that. Hare was set to break a bunch of the NIU passing records before his last two-and-a-third injury plagued seasons.

A more apt comparison would be Hare's first two seasons against Harnish's first two seasons. Lynch is a tougher comparison as he was already an upperclassman for his two seasons as starter.

Drew was set to have a monster year in 2015 before he went down. Looking at the Top 10 single-game passing records, both Harnish and Lynch make the list just once but Drew has 3 games on the list (all from 2015 season).

It always bugs me a bit when NIU fans talk about the golden era of QBs and only mention Harnish/Lynch, it should really be extended to include Harnish/Lynch/Hare.

Totally agree here, the game that Hare fought and battled was UNLV for me. Horrible heat, UNLV kept fighting back, and Hare kept battling and was a leader. I liked Hare a lot, smart kid as well.

Me too. I'm thankful that I'm not the only one who thought Hare was decent. He beat Northwestern!

The only game I want back with Hare is Wyoming, that fumble on the goal line in OT was a killer. Hare was tough, and I just liked how he approached the game and the team. Great QB!

I agree Hare gets a bit overlooked, but statistically he falls under really good, not great. His best year, 2015, he played 8.5 games. Extrapolated out to 14 games his line is:
3,200 yds passing, 413 rush, 23 td, 7 int. Really really good. Compare it to Maddie’s 2016 season where he played 5.5 games extrapolated out to 14 is:
3,100 yds passing, 1,400 rush, 20 td, 13 int. Also really, really good. Probably better. Small sample for sure.

Hare’s career avg per game line is this:
19/27 200 yds, 1.5 td, .25 int. 48 rush yds. Really good. Great? Not quite.

(05-29-2019 07:48 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  I can't imagine putting Childers and formidable in the same sentence. I'd pick Hare or Maddie over him. Bowers is probably as good as Hare or Maddie, maybe better.

IMHO a QB can only be as good as the offense that he plays in allows him to be -- and the offensive coordinator-- and the head coach-- and the receivers-- and the O-Line. So, .... I have NO IDEA how good Childers can be. I know the offense and the coaching did not allow him to be very good last year. I know he can be better--- of that I am sure. New offense, no coaches, improved receivers -- fresh start. Let's wait and see how it goes.

As undervalued as Hare is, Maddie is 10x more overrated. You can't perform a simple extrapolation of their respective 2015/2016 seasons, 8 full games is more than half of the projected 14-game season while 5 full games is just over a third of a 14-game season. Not to mention the disparity in competition played, home vs away/neutral sites, etc.

I never understood the love for Maddie other than "the backup QB is the most beloved guy on the team" paradox. Maddie was a serviceable backup but nothing more. He would have been a good Leatherneck. That was about his true level, a good/decent FCS starter.

This is just my assessment. I'm certain it won't be popular here but it's what I believe. Agree to disagree. I'm not here to debate it or try to change others' opinions or have others try to change mine.

Go Huskies!

Harnish - Very good runner and very good passer
Lynch - Great runner and good passer
Hare - Very good runner and very good passer (Harnish better)
Maddie - Very good runner and Fair passer
Childers - Good runner and Fair passer (competitor)

(05-30-2019 02:46 PM)NorthCoast Wrote:  As undervalued as Hare is, Maddie is 10x more overrated. You can't perform a simple extrapolation of their respective 2015/2016 seasons, 8 full games is more than half of the projected 14-game season while 5 full games is just over a third of a 14-game season. Not to mention the disparity in competition played, home vs away/neutral sites, etc.

I never understood the love for Maddie other than "the backup QB is the most beloved guy on the team" paradox. Maddie was a serviceable backup but nothing more. He would have been a good Leatherneck. That was about his true level, a good/decent FCS starter.

This is just my assessment. I'm certain it won't be popular here but it's what I believe. Agree to disagree. I'm not here to debate it or try to change others' opinions or have others try to change mine.

Go Huskies!

Maddie beat Nebraska, and we love him for it. I feel Maddie given the wheel would have improved and been great, he threw an great ball.