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Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
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_C2_ Online
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Post: #21
RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
(05-26-2019 01:57 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Depends on the context of that praise for the guy. At Penn? Ok. Among the all-time Big Five coaches? I can see something for it.

Part of Temple’s problem, though, beyond Dunphy, was overall success in the tournament. You have to go back sixty years to the last Final Four. And there were some dominant, good teams since then.

Honestly, if you’re going under-appreciated, they may have picked the wrong school from Philly.

St. Joes is pesky and has a proud heritage. Few teams have dominated the headlines an entire season like the 2004 team.
05-28-2019 03:24 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
(05-28-2019 03:24 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(05-26-2019 01:57 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Depends on the context of that praise for the guy. At Penn? Ok. Among the all-time Big Five coaches? I can see something for it.

Part of Temple’s problem, though, beyond Dunphy, was overall success in the tournament. You have to go back sixty years to the last Final Four. And there were some dominant, good teams since then.

Honestly, if you’re going under-appreciated, they may have picked the wrong school from Philly.

St. Joes is pesky and has a proud heritage. Few teams have dominated the headlines an entire season like the 2004 team.

I was thinking Penn more than Saint Joe's, but, yeah, the two of them are both strong workers historically. Dunphy is part of Penn's legacy, but is often overshadowed by Pete Carril's tenure over at Princeton.

We may see that Billy Lange takes the Hawks over the hump in the A10, and brings some better consistency that Phil lacked after, well, pretty much when Jameer and Delonte's teams left. And that would be very interesting to see; a program consistent on the level of, say, VCU or even Davidson in the A10.
05-28-2019 08:22 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
(05-28-2019 03:21 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  John Chaney should have had at least one Final Four appearance, if not 2.

Agreed. And some can point to Chaney's Elite 8 teams, but, that merely covers for his other teams that didn't live up to their potential or hype.

Chaney reminds me a lot of Gene Keady over at Purdue. You knew the school was good for invites. There was always potential for great success. Then they'd lay an egg in the tournament.
05-28-2019 08:28 AM
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whittx Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
Can you be underappreciated when your school has only been around since the late 90's? If so, I might be willing to put Florida Gulf Coast on the short list, especially if you include womens b-ball.
05-28-2019 12:00 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
(05-28-2019 08:22 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 03:24 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(05-26-2019 01:57 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Depends on the context of that praise for the guy. At Penn? Ok. Among the all-time Big Five coaches? I can see something for it.

Part of Temple’s problem, though, beyond Dunphy, was overall success in the tournament. You have to go back sixty years to the last Final Four. And there were some dominant, good teams since then.

Honestly, if you’re going under-appreciated, they may have picked the wrong school from Philly.

St. Joes is pesky and has a proud heritage. Few teams have dominated the headlines an entire season like the 2004 team.

I was thinking Penn more than Saint Joe's, but, yeah, the two of them are both strong workers historically. Dunphy is part of Penn's legacy, but is often overshadowed by Pete Carril's tenure over at Princeton.

We may see that Billy Lange takes the Hawks over the hump in the A10, and brings some better consistency that Phil lacked after, well, pretty much when Jameer and Delonte's teams left. And that would be very interesting to see; a program consistent on the level of, say, VCU or even Davidson in the A10.

STJ doesn't have the resources to be consistent short of joining the Big East, which likely means a new arena and exit by Nova.
05-28-2019 12:20 PM
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_C2_ Online
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Post: #26
RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
(05-28-2019 08:28 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(05-28-2019 03:21 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  John Chaney should have had at least one Final Four appearance, if not 2.

Agreed. And some can point to Chaney's Elite 8 teams, but, that merely covers for his other teams that didn't live up to their potential or hype.

Chaney reminds me a lot of Gene Keady over at Purdue. You knew the school was good for invites. There was always potential for great success. Then they'd lay an egg in the tournament.

On the other hand, Cheaney's teams were known for overachieving, they'd play a ridiculously tough schedule then by Tournament time typically have the matchup zone clicking on all cylinders. One of those teams ran into one of Duke's best teams ever (which is saying something), costing him a great chance at a title.
05-28-2019 12:25 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
(05-26-2019 12:50 PM)zoocrew Wrote:  
(05-26-2019 12:12 PM)Mav Wrote:  
(05-25-2019 09:23 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(05-25-2019 05:33 PM)Mav Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 02:31 PM)zoocrew Wrote:  Andy Katz has a list by conference. I’d love to see his formula for appreciation given vs appreciation deserved.

? Temple
lol
Stopped reading there

I believe Temple is #6 ranked in all time wins right behind Kentucky, Duke, Kansas UNC and Syracuse. So yeah, Temple might be the MOST Underappreciated team of all.
Yes, they were good. Were. They haven't accomplished much in years starting with a 2. Would you say Tennessee's the most underappreciated SEC member because they were good in the 80s and 90s? They still get plenty of attention because of what they did, like Temple.

Yet people think Dunphy is a GOAT...wild to me.

Top 5 all time in wins but haven’t done anything since Chaney. Maybe Mckie can get them back to their deep tourney run selves.

In 13 seasons Dunphy never made so much as a Sweet 16

Only got to the 2nd round three times

He was a 13 year version of Josh Pastner without the recruiting success (Memphis fans will get that comparison)
05-28-2019 06:57 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
(05-26-2019 05:01 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  My G5 listing....

Utah St-Few realize they have made the NCAA tournament 21 times with 2 elite 8 appearances. Utah and BYU don't cast as much of shadow over Utah St as they used to now that the Aggies have taken their place in the MWC.

MTSU-The potential here doesn't get discussed but they have a lot with an arena that seats 11,500 and a large enrollment.

Bowling Green-Many think its a lower tier mid major job but they do have a new arena and while they don't have a rich NCAA history for many years they have fielded solid MAC level teams.

Yeah, Utah St is a good one.

They are usually good in football too.

A sneaky good all around (football, basketball) program.
05-28-2019 07:02 PM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
(05-27-2019 10:57 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  
(05-26-2019 12:12 PM)Mav Wrote:  
(05-25-2019 09:23 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(05-25-2019 05:33 PM)Mav Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 02:31 PM)zoocrew Wrote:  Andy Katz has a list by conference. I’d love to see his formula for appreciation given vs appreciation deserved.

? Temple
lol
Stopped reading there

I believe Temple is #6 ranked in all time wins right behind Kentucky, Duke, Kansas UNC and Syracuse. So yeah, Temple might be the MOST Underappreciated team of all.
Yes, they were good. Were. They haven't accomplished much in years starting with a 2. Would you say Tennessee's the most underappreciated SEC member because they were good in the 80s and 90s? They still get plenty of attention because of what they did, like Temple.

If you're going solely by the Tournament, sure, but you're acting like we've had pretty much nothing but losing seasons.

Since 2000:

1 Elite 8

9 NCAA Tournament appearances in 19 years

1st in the conference 3/15 years

2nd or tied for 2nd in the conference 4/15 years

3rd or tied for 3rd in the conference 3/15 years

Top 3 finish in conference 10/15 years

Losing record in 2/19 years

Losing record in conference 4/19 years

20+ wins in 10/19 years

That's a pretty damn good almost two decades for most programs that aren't expecting championships.
If you're 6th all time in wins and aren't expecting championships then you're an underachiever, not underappreciated. I'm not calling Temple a bad program. The results speak for themselves. People know they're not a bad program and they talk about them as the team that should get it together any minute now, but just can't. That's not underappreciated.
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2019 09:52 PM by Mav.)
05-28-2019 09:51 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
(05-28-2019 12:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  STJ doesn't have the resources to be consistent short of joining the Big East, which likely means a new arena and exit by Nova.

They have more resources for hoops than folks think. Yes, they aren't Villanova, or a monster institutionally like Penn or Temple, but they aren't hurting out there in west Philly the same way someone like La Salle is.

When you go through the years of their work, you may see gaps between NCAA tournament appearances, yet find NIT invitations (and in an era where you had to be good enough to get those) to fill in between. It's that Martelli tenure that's such a hard nut to crack. 24 years, 12 post-seasons. Pro-caliber recruits, but a lot of duds, too. Very inconsistent discipline and performance, but scrappy. Inconsistent coach, instant classic in Philly.

It says something, too, when the school targets a pro coach/assistant, rather than playing the college game. The school knows its strengths, and understands the game. It's different than Penn or Villanova. It's more like Temple, and that's a tough act to follow. And with Lange, I think you're going to have a guy who isn't as complacent as Martelli had become, or his former boss, who simply wouldn't touch him. It's a new era there...one of those pivotal, gateway moments for the program's future.
05-29-2019 07:25 AM
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JHG722 Offline
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RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
St. Joe's is nothing like Temple.
05-29-2019 12:50 PM
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zoocrew Offline
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RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
(05-29-2019 12:50 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  St. Joe's is nothing like Temple.

Yeah credibility immediately torpedoed there. Temple is a big ass state institution that would be in the ACC and comparable to Pitt athletically if not for some bad moves and bad luck.
05-29-2019 02:20 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
(05-29-2019 12:50 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  St. Joe's is nothing like Temple.

How so?
05-29-2019 08:56 PM
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AuzGrams Offline
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RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
It pains me to say that Utah has been an underachieving basketball program lately. Great attendance, good conference, decent history, yet we've made a couple Sweet 16's since the 90's.
05-30-2019 12:42 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
(05-29-2019 08:56 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(05-29-2019 12:50 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  St. Joe's is nothing like Temple.

How so?

I'm not sure, they may be referring to Temple's being a 40K student public university with 4,000 full and part time faculty while St. Joe's is a private Jesuit university with around 5K students and a but under 500 academic staff.

They might be referring to Temple's status as an FBS football school that has been playing football since 1894.

Don't think they are contrasting the school colors ... while they wouldn't be confused, cherry and white vs crimson and grey wouldn't be the biggest contrast in terms of pairs of colors.
05-30-2019 05:11 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
(05-30-2019 05:11 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-29-2019 08:56 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(05-29-2019 12:50 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  St. Joe's is nothing like Temple.

How so?

I'm not sure, they may be referring to Temple's being a 40K student public university with 4,000 full and part time faculty while St. Joe's is a private Jesuit university with around 5K students and a but under 500 academic staff.

They might be referring to Temple's status as an FBS football school that has been playing football since 1894.

Don't think they are contrasting the school colors ... while they wouldn't be confused, cherry and white vs crimson and grey wouldn't be the biggest contrast in terms of pairs of colors.

Isn't this about the basketball program? The comparison comes from how those two seemingly operate these days, like how Martelli imitated Chaney's style of recruiting talent who were rough around the edges; taking chances on talented kids who others might not have touched elsewhere (like, at Villanova or Penn) because of behavioral or academic issues. Somewhat similar outcomes with teams who often times displayed little consistency in fundamental discipline on the court. Yet, could still be very successful, and not back down to anyone they faced. It's how Saint Joe's grabbed a "Philly guy," with a Sixers pedigree, as its replacement for its own Philly coaching legend. Added that both schools practically handled those transitions in a piss-poor fashion.

The talent pipeline in the northeast corridor is rich, and the Philly area contributes more than its fair share to the greater scene. It's interesting to see how both Temple and Saint Joe's chose to hammer down on local guys. It's something nobody really has to do, but speaks to a philosophy both SJU and Temple seem to share. They both know what they are as a program and a school, what they can do, and where they are on a map to place competitive programs onto the court.

But, I'll never understand some here. People getting their panties bunched up over what is a compliment? Good lord.
(This post was last modified: 05-30-2019 09:01 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
05-30-2019 08:57 AM
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chess Offline
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RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
No Washington Generals? The Globetrotters own that team.04-cheers
05-30-2019 11:35 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
Cincinnati.

13th all-time in wins
2 National titles, 6 Final Fours
33 NCAAT appearances
42 All-American Selections
06-04-2019 07:17 PM
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RE: Most Under Appreciated Basketball Programs
And somehow they have fewer Sweet 16's than Final Fours...LOL it feels that way. Anyways, Cincy gets the exact respect it deserves.
06-04-2019 11:05 PM
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