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Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
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BDKJMU Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
(05-24-2019 08:03 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 06:27 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  There’s data out there that shows beer sales inside college stadiums actually IMPROVES drunken fan behavior. Less people sneaking in liquor or tailgating too hard before the game. WVU is an example I remember reading about. No way it turns into a Redskins situation where it’s stupid drunk a-holes everywhere.

Have you actually seen these alleged findings or are you just regurgitating the information that keeps getting posted on JMU Nation? I've yet to see anyone actually cite a study I just continue to see "Data shows this decreases..."

The only data I found was actually conflicting. There is a 1993 study from Arizona State showing that blood alcohol levels were lower after games when they allowed beer sales. And there is a 2001 study from the University of Colorado that shows a decrease in incidents after alcohol was banned.

I've yet to find a study that shows there was a decrease in incidents in stadium once alcohol was allowed. The only study I found said the opposite. The closest I found says that in one location people were less drunk after allowing alcohol which...I guess...you could then argue means there was probably less incidents.

But unless I am missing a study somewhere, and there is a very good chance I am, I don't see any academic research showing beer sales decreases drunken behavior and/or incidents at a game.
Posted on the Offseason Thread:
Quote:...Indiana based its decision to offer the sales of alcoholic beverages following a review by Wasserman consulting firm. The review examined feedback from over 50 schools already selling beer and/or wine at football games. The data from that review demonstrated fans enjoyed the gameday atmosphere more and the numbers showed in increased attendance at football games at many schools. Additionally, schools offering alcoholic sales in football stadiums saw a decrease in alcoholic-related instances.
https://csnbbs.com/thread-867542-post-16...id16093992
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2019 08:33 AM by BDKJMU.)
05-24-2019 08:28 AM
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JMUTrippster Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
I have to imagine the clear bag policy + beer sales in stadium is an attempt to keep people from sneaking things in as much as before (although where there is a will there's a way!) to keep total alcohol consumption down. Just thinking out loud but it can't be a coincidence that they're implementing both at the same time.
05-24-2019 08:29 AM
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Wear Purple Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
(05-24-2019 08:22 AM)Dukester Wrote:  Ironically the worst situation I saw at a game was at JMU. There was a drunk guy and his friend in the front row of the top deck. He kept standing up and had a hard time keeping his balance. I was terrified my family and I were going to witness a death. Thankfully someone from JMU asked that he stay seated and he left about 10 minutes later.

Wow, I didn't think we were *THAT* bad. But, thanks for caring just the same.

04-cheers

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05-24-2019 08:30 AM
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ShadyP Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
(05-24-2019 06:35 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Don’t think the promise of 4 overpriced beers will keep those people in the stadium. This is just smart revenue for JMU.

Agree.

This is not a big deal for me b/c I am not going to overpay for a beer just so I can have one in the stadium. But I get how it is a big win for some. Hopefully JMU/Aramark does a good job enforcing the limits, etc to maintain a good family atmosphere at the stadium.

I don't see it having a negative impact as there were folks already sneaking in liquor and getting sloppy occasionally. If it curtails some of that it is a win-win. But in reality I think the safety stuff is just 'political speak' and the real issue is Athletic Departments see it as a potential money grab. Will be interesting to see if the revenues are worth the additional effort.
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2019 08:35 AM by ShadyP.)
05-24-2019 08:31 AM
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JMad03 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
A few thoughts:
- I doubt the number of drunk fans is going to get exponentially worse. Most people that want to get drunk at games tailgate. It's not like this is going to unlock a group of people that really wanted to get drunk at games and can now do so. Which leads to my next point...
- Perhaps this is wishful thinking, but maybe this could be another way to get fans in their seats earlier. Fans could warm up at the tailgate and get there for their next round inside the stadium.
- This can be taken away in a heartbeat. If it's looking like people cannot be responsible, I don't think JMU will think twice about removing alcohol from the stadium.
05-24-2019 08:35 AM
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Wear Purple Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
(05-24-2019 08:31 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 06:35 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Don’t think the promise of 4 overpriced beers will keep those people in the stadium. This is just smart revenue for JMU.

Agree.

This is not a big deal for me b/c I am not going to overpay for a beer just so I can have one in the stadium. But I get how it is a big win for some. Hopefully JMU/Aramark does a good job enforcing the limits, etc to maintain a good family atmosphere at the stadium.

I don't see it having a negative impact as there were folks already sneaking in liquor and getting sloppy occasionally. If it curtains some of that it is a win-win.

I wonder if this policy extends to home (NCAA) playoff games? If this was covered already in the release, my apologies as I missed it. I think the NCAA has relaxed/eliminated its once-stringent policies of no alcohol at NCAA-sponsored events over the last decade, but could be wrong.

Of course, for a cold December game at BFS, I'd be much more interested in a shot of Dickel or an Irish coffee over a "cold beer" anyway.

[Image: 1eaf62f3a323e9f948455f53e279040b.jpg]
05-24-2019 08:38 AM
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BDKJMU Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
(05-24-2019 08:38 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 08:31 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 06:35 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Don’t think the promise of 4 overpriced beers will keep those people in the stadium. This is just smart revenue for JMU.

Agree.

This is not a big deal for me b/c I am not going to overpay for a beer just so I can have one in the stadium. But I get how it is a big win for some. Hopefully JMU/Aramark does a good job enforcing the limits, etc to maintain a good family atmosphere at the stadium.

I don't see it having a negative impact as there were folks already sneaking in liquor and getting sloppy occasionally. If it curtains some of that it is a win-win.

I wonder if this policy extends to home (NCAA) playoff games? If this was covered already in the release, my apologies as I missed it. I think the NCAA has relaxed/eliminated its once-stringent policies of no alcohol at NCAA-sponsored events over the last decade, but could be wrong.

Of course, for a cold December game at BFS, I'd be much more interested in a shot of Dickel or an Irish coffee over a "cold beer" anyway.

[Image: 1eaf62f3a323e9f948455f53e279040b.jpg]
If the NCAA allows it for the NC game, why would they not allow it for the other rounds?

And if water’s for teardrops, and Dickel’s for drinkin, why water down perfectly good Dickel with ice?04-cheers
05-24-2019 08:47 AM
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Deez Nuts Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
One thing we can count on is that JMU will very closely monitor this situation 04-cheers
05-24-2019 08:57 AM
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Wear Purple Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
(05-24-2019 08:57 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  One thing we can count on is that JMU will very closely monitor this situation 04-cheers

I hope it is a success and it translates over to the new hoops arena. I know there are supposed to be club atmosphere opportunities in the new AUBC, but not sure if that means restricted to certain folks or open to all.

A lot of folks traveling to weeknight games are leaving directly from work and would love a basket of Raising Cane's chicken & fries along with a draft beer just before tipoff as dinner. We'll see...
05-24-2019 09:02 AM
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Polish Hammer Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
If anything I think the irresponsible drinkers would be too cheap to all of @ sudden find a way to get drunk and stupid inside the stadium on overpriced beer. With the drink limit in place I can see the responsible social drinker buying rounds for family and friends being affected more than the booze hound stopped at 4 $8 beers when he wants 8+ so he can really let loose.
05-24-2019 09:11 AM
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Dukester Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
(05-24-2019 08:57 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  One thing we can count on is that JMU will very closely monitor this situation 04-cheers

We are certainly one of the top monitors in college athletics.

04-cheers
05-24-2019 09:48 AM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
(05-24-2019 08:15 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  I’ve been to many games at FedEx, and never had a problem in the club area or lower bowl. Even brought a guest wearing a Cowboys jersey to the Skins/Dallas game last year. Suspect this is a localized issue mostly occurring in the upper deck cheap seats. I have seen some obnoxiously drunk folks stumble down from there after games. That said, alcohol at FedEx is unrestricted and everywhere, and it would be quite easy to get stupid drunk. What JMU is doing is much different. It hasn’t been a problem in our club area, and doubt this will be either.

Had club seats both times I went to FedEx. Both times, drunk a-holes with club seats nearby ruined any chance of enjoying the game. People who love the NFL are just a different crowd than college football fans, I've found.
05-24-2019 09:53 AM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
(05-24-2019 09:48 AM)Dukester Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 08:57 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  One thing we can count on is that JMU will very closely monitor this situation 04-cheers

We are certainly one of the top monitors in college athletics.

04-cheers

Best posts.
05-24-2019 09:54 AM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
(05-24-2019 08:03 AM)doubleduke2016 Wrote:  Have you actually seen these alleged findings or are you just regurgitating the information that keeps getting posted on JMU Nation?

Seeing as I'm not a facebook user, it's safe to say I'm not regurgitating something from facebook! :)

I remember reading some stuff Oliver Luck put out at WVU before they added beer sales. You might be right that it was all just a facade to add the revenue. But I remember WVU specifically because of their reputation for bad fan behavior. Appreciate the reality check & I'll try to see if I can find the study/report.
05-24-2019 09:57 AM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
This article from 4 years ago states that WVU police reported reduced incidents after 2010 when they introduced general alcohol sales. It's not that clean-cut though, because WVU instituted the sales at the same time that they banned leaving at halftime & returning. So there's data, but it's dirty data.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/09/sport...ginia.html
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2019 10:07 AM by HyperDuke.)
05-24-2019 10:07 AM
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BDKJMU Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
(05-24-2019 10:07 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  This article from 4 years ago states that WVU police reported reduced incidents after 2010 when they introduced general alcohol sales. It's not that clean-cut though, because WVU instituted the sales at the same time that they banned leaving at halftime & returning. So there's data, but it's dirty data.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/09/sport...ginia.html

Also the 50 school Wasserman study that I linked above that found a decrease in incidents..
05-24-2019 10:15 AM
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doubleduke2016 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
(05-24-2019 10:07 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  This article from 4 years ago states that WVU police reported reduced incidents after 2010 when they introduced general alcohol sales. It's not that clean-cut though, because WVU instituted the sales at the same time that they banned leaving at halftime & returning. So there's data, but it's dirty data.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/09/sport...ginia.html

Interesting. I did find a case study of an unidentified P5 conference in the midwest that shows incidents dipper for 1 year and then shot up. The study is from 2018 and they mention the WVU findings in this study.

In addition to providing large sums of money for the Athletic Department, Oliver Luck asserted providing alcohol in their stadium resulted in a 30% decrease in alcohol-related incidents.16 Novy-Williams E. Football beer taps add safety, $700,000 to West Virginia University sports. Bloomberg.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-09...ports.html
. Published December 9, 2011. Accessed December 8, 2018. [Google Scholar],17 Dubner SJ. Can selling beer cut down on public drunkenness? A new marketplace podcast. Freakonomics.com.
http://freakonomics.com/2012/09/06/can-s...e-podcast/
. Published on September 6, 2012. Accessed on December 8, 2018. [Google Scholar] Decreasing alcohol-related incidents by increasing availability of alcohol runs counter to the vast majority of the public health literature. For instance, drinking behaviors associated with college football game days have been linked to alcohol-related consequences and crime on game day within the host community.13 Neal DJ, Fromme K. Hook 'em horns and heavy drinking: alcohol use and collegiate sports. Addict Behav. 2007;32(11):2681–2693. doi:10.1016/j.addbeh.2007.06.020.[Crossref], [PubMed], [Web of Science ], , [Google Scholar],18 Rees DI, Schnepel KT. College football games and crime. J Sports Econ. 2009;10(1):68–87. doi:10.1177/1527002508327389.[Crossref], [Web of Science ], , [Google Scholar] Specifically, Rees and Schnepel18 Rees DI, Schnepel KT. College football games and crime. J Sports Econ. 2009;10(1):68–87. doi:10.1177/1527002508327389.[Crossref], [Web of Science ], , [Google Scholar] evaluated 26 Division I-A college football programs and found the game day host communities experienced drastic increases in alcohol-related offenses and arrests, including vandalism and assault cases. In examining “Campus Safety and Security Data” West Virginia University reported to the U.S. Department of Education (USDOE) that spanned pre and postalcohol stadium sales policy, researchers documented a clear upward trend in alcohol-related (a) noncampus arrest, and (b) arrests on public property, once the policy to allow sales of alcohol at the campus stadium was implemented.10 Barry AE, Howell SM, Salaga S. Tapping into college football: the need for research examining the impact of stadium alcohol sales on drinking behaviors and incidents. J Alcohol Drug Educ. 2015;59(2):7–11. [Google Scholar] That said, it should be noted that incidents reported to the USDOE represent alleged criminal offenses reported to campus and local law enforcement and should ultimately be considered annual estimates that are macro in nature. Due to these constraints, USDOE campus safety and security data cannot be temporally linked to specific events, such as a football game. Thus, more nuanced data that is (a) linked in time and place to when football contests are played, and (b) objectively documented, are needed to provide important context to this policy decision. To date, very few studies have examined alcohol consumption and associated behavioral outcomes among colleges and universities that have enacted an alcohol sales policy in their football stadiums. Even less attention has been devoted to studying trends over the course of several football seasons (pre and postpolicy) while simultaneously accounting for important game day factors, such as whether the opponent is a traditional rival.

For the period of 2009–2013, there was a general upward trend in crime incidents over time. Documented offenses were highest in 2013, 1 year after alcohol sales were allowed at the campus stadium (see Figure 1). On average, 330 total crime incidents occurred on home football game weekends during years in which alcohol was not sold at the campus stadium (2009–2011). Crime incidents on home football game weekends during years alcohol was sold at the campus stadium (2012–2013) averaged 475 annually.

---

It is a fairly limited case study though.
05-24-2019 10:22 AM
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doubleduke2016 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
Here is a journal study as well that seems to discredit what the WVU administration found. Who knows where the truth lies because you can make data say what you want but it does appear as though WVU brings in just short of $1 million a year in alcohol sales.


---
Given the discrepancy between WVU's initial findings (a decrease in alcohol-related incidents) and what might be expected based on currently available research (an increase in alcohol-related incidents), further investigation into the potential impact of alcohol sales at college football stadiums is clearly needed. Herein, we highlight objective/documented data obtained via the U.S. Department of Education's (USDOE) "Campus Safety and Security Data Analysis Cutting Tool" (CSSDACT) to further highlight the need for additional research. Developed by the Office of Postsecondary Education, the CSSDACT was designed to provide quick, customized reports related to campus-specific crime data. The data is submitted annually by all postsecondary institutions that receive Title IV funding (i.e., institutions participating in federal student aid programs) (USDOE, 2014).

Using WVU-specific data we present statistics on several alcohol indicators across a four year period - one year prior to WVU's alcohol sale policy being initiated (2010), the year WVU's alcohol policy went into effect (2011), and two years after WVU's policy began (2012, 2013). Specific alcohol-related indicators include: (1) number of non-campus arrests (see Figure 1a); (2) number of arrests on public property (see Figure 1b); (3) number of persons referred for disciplinary action due to alcohol-related violations that occurred on campus (see Figure 1c); and (4) number of persons referred for disciplinary action due to alcohol-related violations that occurred in on-campus student housing facilities (see Figure 1d). For all alcohol-related incidents examined, a clear and strong upward trend exists. As an illustration, the number of alcohol-related arrests on public property in Morgantown has increased over 300% during the sample period. In other words, in all four measures, alcohol-related incidents were lowest in the year alcohol was not sold at the football stadium (2010).
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2019 10:27 AM by doubleduke2016.)
05-24-2019 10:26 AM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
Thanks for the data. You've got better original source material than me, so that's appreciated.
05-24-2019 10:53 AM
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jmufan2008 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Beer to be sold at Bridgeforth during games?
They also went back 1 year and forward 2 years. Would be interested (now that's it's been several years since it was done) if things have changed. Go back 4 years and forward 8 years. Same sizes of 1 or 2 schools over a 4 year period are silly. I also didn't read into it too much, but the posts synopsis didn't say they looked at incidents only on gamedays...which would be silly if that's true.

I would expect that it would decrease incidents (at least before and early in the game), but may increase after the game. I would also expect at least a slight increase in people staying later in into the game.
05-24-2019 10:54 AM
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