(05-23-2019 09:59 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  I'm really interested to see how our few liberal friends on this board answer these questions, and please be specific.

How has President Trump's actions changed your life?

How has President Trump's actions changed this country?

I'm a libertarian

1) It hasn't. The USA gives its President less power than the chief executive of any country in the world. So one person can rarely change things enough to matter. Thank God.

However, my best friend did have to cancel a trip to an academic conference in Canada in 2016 due to Trump. My friend holds both Iranian and Canadian passports and a US work visa, and Trump's stupid travel ban would have prevented him from coming back into the USA to do his job.


2) Domestically, I think he's pulling independents to the right. He says something benign that's meant to get under the skin of Leftists, the Leftists respond with TDS, allowing the country to see how fascist the left is. Leftists call this divisive; I call it fighting back against the Left's attempt to make Conservatives stay in the closet.

His tax cuts are a risky plan to grow our way out of the national debt. Time will tell if it works.

He's talked a lot about deregulation, but it's been more glitz than action.

He has appointed good Supreme Court justices and lots of Appellate judges. But that's more thanks to the Senate than Trump.


But that's domestic policy, and Presidents have little domestic power. A President is most influential in foreign policy.

His pandering to dictators (especially Duterte and Erdogan) has led to a reversal of democracy worldwide. Democracies can not exist alone; they're easily influenced by outside powers. Just look at how the European monarchies ganged up on Revolutionary France in the 1790s, or how the USSR funded strong Communist parties in Italy and France to poison their democratic institutions, or how Cuba's military & Russian money are causing Venezuelans to lose their democracy in 2019.

Trump has initiated trade wars with nearly every ally. Like Democracy, free markets do not exist in a vaccuum either. Trump has been the most destructive President to free global markets since Hoover (and FDR, who continued Hoover's policies).

Trump's done a great job handling is China. That trade war needed to happen.

Trump's unpredictability has kept our enemies off guard, which is a good thing.

He has overused international sanctions. Dictators used to trust the USA with their money, allowing the USA to dominate international finance. This allows the US to export dollars rather than goods, lowers currency risk for US firms, and it lets us occasionally exercise control over dictators. But Trump has undermined that trust by imposing sanctions too many times, and I guarantee that Russia/China/3rd world dictators are going to start a parallel finance system.

(05-23-2019 01:07 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(05-23-2019 12:58 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Can somebody explain to me with specific actions that created or worsened "division"?

Twitter.

President Trump is the first president that used Twitter to get out his message and with that sometimes he takes it a step to far. But I dont think it's because of the President causing the division. Twitter and Facebook gives people more of a voice and today MSM uses Twitter post like they makeup a large percentage of the people. They dont! but once you add in the media repeating the crap......

it's like a game of telephone

The president only responds with vinegar on Twitter to attacks on him or his administration. It’s the only way to get his side out in this day and age of media biases. The MSM are not doing their job of reporting both sides.

(05-23-2019 01:16 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(05-23-2019 12:58 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Can somebody explain to me with specific actions that created or worsened "division"?

For the record, President Trump is no where in the same zip code as President Obama when it comes to dividing the nation.

But one example that comes to my mind is DJT's lying about his tax returns. It was a lie when he promised to release them. It remains a lie today. And it is no small matter.

This lie has plainly added to the division of this nation. It has triggered justifiable suspicion in liberals and it has turned his conservative defenders into total hypocrites.

I don't personally care to know what is in his tax returns. And this lie does not compare to the Obama administration lies that led to my now disasterously expensive health care coverage. But it was (and remains) a divisive lie nonetheless.

Why should he release his tax returns? Some here may not realize it BUT THE IRS HAS HIS TAX RETURNS AND IF THERE WAS ANYTHING IN THEM ILLEGAL THEY WOULD ROLL HIM! The dems just want to grab on to something and say “see he broke the law”. Just as they are still saying he colluded wit Russians. There won’t be anything in his tax returns of importance with regard to him being president.

(05-23-2019 01:51 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(05-23-2019 01:16 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(05-23-2019 12:58 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Can somebody explain to me with specific actions that created or worsened "division"?

For the record, President Trump is no where in the same zip code as President Obama when it comes to dividing the nation.

But one example that comes to my mind is DJT's lying about his tax returns. It was a lie when he promised to release them. It remains a lie today. And it is no small matter.

This lie has plainly added to the division of this nation. It has triggered justifiable suspicion in liberals and it has turned his conservative defenders into total hypocrites.

I don't personally care to know what is in his tax returns. And this lie does not compare to the Obama administration lies that led to my now disasterously expensive health care coverage. But it was (and remains) a divisive lie nonetheless.

Why should he release his tax returns? Some here may not realize it BUT THE IRS HAS HIS TAX RETURNS AND IF THERE WAS ANYTHING IN THEM ILLEGAL THEY WOULD ROLL HIM! The dems just want to grab on to something and say “see he broke the law”. Just as they are still saying he colluded wit Russians. There won’t be anything in his tax returns of importance with regard to him being president.

He has absolutely no obligation to do so.

He also was under no obligation to promise that he would.

(05-23-2019 03:18 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(05-23-2019 01:51 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(05-23-2019 01:16 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(05-23-2019 12:58 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Can somebody explain to me with specific actions that created or worsened "division"?

For the record, President Trump is no where in the same zip code as President Obama when it comes to dividing the nation.

But one example that comes to my mind is DJT's lying about his tax returns. It was a lie when he promised to release them. It remains a lie today. And it is no small matter.

This lie has plainly added to the division of this nation. It has triggered justifiable suspicion in liberals and it has turned his conservative defenders into total hypocrites.

I don't personally care to know what is in his tax returns. And this lie does not compare to the Obama administration lies that led to my now disasterously expensive health care coverage. But it was (and remains) a divisive lie nonetheless.

Why should he release his tax returns? Some here may not realize it BUT THE IRS HAS HIS TAX RETURNS AND IF THERE WAS ANYTHING IN THEM ILLEGAL THEY WOULD ROLL HIM! The dems just want to grab on to something and say “see he broke the law”. Just as they are still saying he colluded wit Russians. There won’t be anything in his tax returns of importance with regard to him being president.

He has absolutely no obligation to do so.

He also was under no obligation to promise that he would.

When he made the promise (can you link it?) he probably didn't understand that the media and every democrat wanted to use them in the ways they do today. Compared to some of the promises those running for President, and won, makes....

this would rank about 99th out of 100 on a list of importance

I'm not very good at internet research. A bing search brought up this article: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics...-1.3061868

I agree, the broken tax return comment is pretty small potatoes on the list of Trump shortcomings. But the question was what has he done that has proved to be divisive to our nation, and that is what first occurred to me. Your citation of his twitter habits clearly is more provocative from a divisiveness standpoint.

(05-23-2019 09:59 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  I'm really interested to see how our few liberal friends on this board answer these questions, and please be specific.

How has President Trump's actions changed your life?

How has President Trump's actions changed this country?

Hasn't changed a thing, although perhaps my wife's tax office is a bit busier? Actually come to think of it, it has created way more text messages from my ulta liberal brothers and sister.

I'm not qualified to answer the second question. I'm not sure anyone is.

I didn’t see much benefit from the tax change, but I lived in two liberal, high tax states last year, so partly my fault.

I saw little to no impact in my tax returns. I've watched my stock portfolio jump wildly based on the things he's said and done. Some good, some bad. Overall better than when he came in.

His complete inability to express himself diplomatically has worsened an already large divide in this country. I thought after his inauguration speech that he'd skew to a more tactful way of conducting himself but have been woefully let down in this regard. I still think in my heart of hearts (eg my OPINION) that something is rotten in Denmark. An already rich person made more money (no super hard feat really) and then became a reality TV star and sometimes WWE personality, then became POTUS, and that type of soap opera mentality has carried over into the office. It'll never be the same again. I think America has jumped the shark. And it sucks.

(05-23-2019 12:23 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(05-23-2019 12:17 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  

(05-23-2019 11:50 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(05-23-2019 11:37 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Overton Window


He has normalized the absurd.

So, I said be specific on what Trump has done, so please be specific and explain your answers.

Debating ***** size starting out a presidential debate.

So an idiotic comment that he made during the primaries has changed your life. That is pretty pathetic for you to be that affected by something so insignificant. PATHETIC.

But he was probably ok with the idea of explaining to kids what oral sex was.

(05-23-2019 12:40 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  

(05-23-2019 12:23 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(05-23-2019 12:17 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  

(05-23-2019 11:50 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(05-23-2019 11:37 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Overton Window


He has normalized the absurd.

So, I said be specific on what Trump has done, so please be specific and explain your answers.

Debating ***** size starting out a presidential debate.

So an idiotic comment that he made during the primaries has changed your life. That is pretty pathetic for you to be that affected by something so insignificant. PATHETIC.

It's not at all presidential and it should have disqualified him.

Asking Russia to hack Hilary's emails and then them doing just that. You don't want specifics. It would take hours to type.

Neither was LBJ showing his scars or Bill doing Monica under the desk in the Oval Office.

(05-23-2019 01:07 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(05-23-2019 12:58 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Can somebody explain to me with specific actions that created or worsened "division"?

Twitter.

President Trump is the first president that used Twitter to get out his message and with that sometimes he takes it a step to far. But I dont think it's because of the President causing the division. Twitter and Facebook gives people more of a voice and today MSM uses Twitter post like they makeup a large percentage of the people. They dont! but once you add in the media repeating the crap......

it's like a game of telephone

Its not like President Trump was the one calling 1/4th to half the nation "deplorables" simply because they didn't want to vote for him.

(05-23-2019 01:16 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(05-23-2019 12:58 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Can somebody explain to me with specific actions that created or worsened "division"?

For the record, President Trump is no where in the same zip code as President Obama when it comes to dividing the nation.

But one example that comes to my mind is DJT's lying about his tax returns. It was a lie when he promised to release them. It remains a lie today. And it is no small matter.

This lie has plainly added to the division of this nation. It has triggered justifiable suspicion in liberals and it has turned his conservative defenders into total hypocrites.

I don't personally care to know what is in his tax returns. And this lie does not compare to the Obama administration lies that led to my now disasterously expensive health care coverage. But it was (and remains) a divisive lie nonetheless.

He said he would after it was audited. Whether he ever intended or the Democrats actions since then changed his mind, I don't know. But its trivial. Takes a snowflake to get bent out of shape about that. That's on the snowflake.

Y'all leftists are pathetic. Symptoms of TDS.

I could come up with at least a half dozen things he did causing division better than any of these.

Which indicates its the left that is frothing at the mouth and doing most of the division.

(05-23-2019 09:59 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  I'm really interested to see how our few liberal friends on this board answer these questions, and please be specific.

How has President Trump's actions changed your life?

How has President Trump's actions changed this country?

take note swag and cb, this is how you do it

Today

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/...3200c8725d


This man’s administrations ability to crap on the downtrodden is staggering. It’s issue like these that bothers me. Does it effect me personally. Yes, because I can’t stand bullies who prey upon the less fortunate. No reason for this.

(05-23-2019 07:04 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Today

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/...3200c8725d


This man’s administrations ability to crap on the downtrodden is staggering. It’s issue like these that bothers me. Does it effect me personally. Yes, because I can’t stand bullies who prey upon the less fortunate. No reason for this.

I've used my reads for the month and WaPo isn't worth the hassle of resetting. Any relevant quotes? From the title, it sounds like Carson is just treating transgenders like anyone else.

(05-23-2019 07:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-23-2019 07:04 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Today

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/...3200c8725d


This man’s administrations ability to crap on the downtrodden is staggering. It’s issue like these that bothers me. Does it effect me personally. Yes, because I can’t stand bullies who prey upon the less fortunate. No reason for this.

I've used my reads for the month and WaPo isn't worth the hassle of resetting. Any relevant quotes? From the title, it sounds like Carson is just treating transgenders like anyone else.

Quote:The Department of Housing and Urban Development on Wednesday proposed a new rule that would weaken Obama-era protections for homeless transgender people, allowing federally funded shelters to deny people admission on religious grounds or force transgender women to share bathrooms and sleeping quarters with men.

The proposed rule comes one day after HUD Secretary Ben Carson assured members of Congress the agency had no plans to eliminate the 2012 Equal Access Rule, which barred federal housing discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity.

When questioned by Rep. Jennifer Wexton (D-VA) on HUD’s treatment of transgender people, Carson said his responsibility is to “make sure everybody is treated fairly. ”

He assured Wexton that HUD had no plans to alter the Equal Access protection, saying: "I’m not currently anticipating changing the rule. ”

Quote:HUD/CPD RIN: 2506-AC53 Publication ID: Spring 2019
Title: ●Revised Requirements Under Community Planning and Development Housing Programs (FR-6152)
Abstract:
This proposed rule provides that grant recipients, subrecipients, owners, operators, managers, and providers (Shelter Providers) under HUD programs which permit single-sex or sex-segregated facilities (such as bathrooms or temporary, emergency shelters and other buildings and facilities with physical limitations or configurations that require and are permitted to have shared sleeping quarters or bathing facilities) may establish a policy, consistent with state and local law, by which such Shelter Provider considers an individual’s sex for the purposes of determining accommodation within such shelters and for purposes of determining sex for admission to any facility or portion thereof. The proposed rule permits Shelter Providers to consider a range of factors in making such determinations, including privacy, safety, practical concerns, religious beliefs, any relevant considerations under civil rights and nondiscrimination authorities , the individual’s sex as reflected in official government documents, as well as the gender which a person identifies with. The proposed rule does not dictate a required basis for making determinations other than that they be consistent with an overall policy. The proposed rule continues HUD’s policy of ensuring that its programs are open to all eligible individuals and families regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity.

(05-23-2019 06:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  Y'all leftists are pathetic. Symptoms of TDS.

I could come up with at least a half dozen things he did causing division better than any of these.

Which indicates its the left that is frothing at the mouth and doing most of the division.

Ok, I've got one.

There's plenty of good arguments to argue for a border wall, stronger border security, and stopping illegal immigration. But which reason did Trump choose to run with? Calling illegal immigrants drug dealers and rapists, and then saying they have diseases.

That's intentionally playing into racist stereotypes. That's divisive.

Of course, it's nowhere near as divisive as Kamela Harris quizzing a judicial nominee about his membership in the Knights of Columbus as if he belongs to a hate group. Or Obama inviting Black Lives Matter leaders to the White House, or Holder investigating the Ferguson police well after it was clear that "Hands up, don't shoot" was a lie. Or Obama saying that rural Americans "cling to their guns and religion." Or insisting that because my parents were upper middle class whites, that I am less deserving of my success and somehow "different" than people I grew up with who are of a different race, ancestry, ethnicity, etc. Compared to those things, Trump is a voice of unity.

(05-24-2019 02:26 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(05-23-2019 06:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  Y'all leftists are pathetic. Symptoms of TDS.

I could come up with at least a half dozen things he did causing division better than any of these.

Which indicates its the left that is frothing at the mouth and doing most of the division.

Ok, I've got one.

There's plenty of good arguments to argue for a border wall, stronger border security, and stopping illegal immigration. But which reason did Trump choose to run with? Calling illegal immigrants drug dealers and rapists, and then saying they have diseases.

That's intentionally playing into racist stereotypes. That's divisive.

He did not call "all" illegal immigrants rapists and drug dealers. That is a classic example of people twisting words to the most extreme possible place.