REALIGNMENT MOCK DRAFT .:. ON THE CLOCK: Big South (R2, #12), AAC (R1, #8) [pending trade approval], Big12 (R1, #11)

Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
NCAA Softball tournament/world series
Author Message
jdgaucho Online
All American
*

Posts: 2,966
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 40
I Root For: UCSB
Location: Big West Land
Post: #21
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
Texas A&M finished in last place in the SEC, and just one game over .500 overall. In what other sport does the last place team earn an at-large bid? They were 2-11 away from home. They went one and done in the SEC tournament. This is not the whiny cult of victimization, JR.

UNLV and San Jose State both had top-50 RPIs in a solid Mountain West. Both got snubbed for a last place team.
05-20-2019 01:30 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BruceMcF Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,439
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 130
I Root For: Reds/Buckeyes/.
Location:
Post: #22
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
(05-19-2019 01:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Gaucho picked on Georgia's home record. Well there is a reason Southern teams (including Texas and Oklahoma teams play more home games, early season weather up North. Most Northern teams tour the South until they can play outdoors with decent weather. The second reason for it is the gate. The top women's programs in the Southeast and Southwest operate in the black and it is a revenue sport which draws well enough to keep it in the black. Most of the rest of the country runs red ink on Softball.

Note that the argument to be made is that after a 2-11 away from home record, A&M should get the benefit of the doubt because that was mostly away games in conference and they are in the toughest conference. Not because they don't travel well and much of their winning record is due to taking full advantage of the opportunity to get home cooking against northern teams in the middle of a long road trip.

But neither of those points actually point toward the conclusion that they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

The fact that a school has a financial incentive to play a lot of home games does not mean that a team like A&M that was 2-11 away from home should get the benefit of the doubt when it comes time for an at-large pick.

And the fact that a southern school has an strong opportunity to play all or almost all OOC games at home also does not means that a team that struggles to win away from home should get the benefit of the doubt.

If they wanted to show that they could win on the road when not playing SEC level competition, they had a chance to set up more OOC games on the road ... and opted not to. There's no particular reason they should get the benefit of the doubt as to whether they are a team that travels poorly and only enjoyed a winning record due to the limited number of road games they played.
05-20-2019 03:57 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cubucks Online
Special Teams
*

Posts: 634
Joined: Apr 2015
Reputation: 61
I Root For: Buckeyes/Ohio
Location: Athens, Ohio
Post: #23
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
I didn't intend for this post to become a conference d**k measuring contest, but, it has to a point.

So here are some numbers so far in the tournament.

Win %
BIG 12= 76%
PAC= 71%
BIG 10= 65%**
SEC= 64%**
ACC= 56%

**BIG 10 (2) and SEC (1) still have teams playing today.

Short on time so didn't research other conferences yet, sorry and no disrespect intended.

If my numbers are wrong, I'm sorry.
05-20-2019 09:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
The Cutter of Bish Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,008
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 107
I Root For: the little guy
Location:
Post: #24
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
(05-19-2019 01:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-19-2019 12:22 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(05-19-2019 11:16 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I hardly ever watch college sports this time of year, and even I know softball is pretty much three conferences: SEC, ACC, and Big XII.

Other schools play the sport? Good for them. Three conferences pretty much own it.

I don't know about that. Three of the top six schools in the rankings are from the Pac-12 (UW at #2, UCLA at #3, Arizona at #6). From the Big 10, Minnesota is #8 and Michigan #11. I think all five power conferences are pretty good, at least this season.

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Softball/Col...p-25-Polls

Bingo. Softball was dominated by the PAC up until about 11 or 12 years ago and the PAC is still very strong at the top. Texas and Oklahoma are usually the only ones from the Big 12 to make a serious run. The SEC really jumped up in the sport with intentional investment about 20 years ago.

I don't disagree with that, either. I mean, back when I started following college sports (and I followed a lot of them, especially if my "team" was good), women's college basketball was pretty much Tennessee, Penn State, Old Dominion, and La Tech, it seemed. Nowhere near that anymore. Baseball was SEC and west coast teams. Wrestling had a lot more concentration in the northeast (Lehigh, Army, and Navy along with Penn State). Volleyball, men's and women's, was west coast-owned.

Things changed.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2019 10:22 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
05-20-2019 10:21 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 20,138
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 1599
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #25
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
(05-20-2019 03:57 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-19-2019 01:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Gaucho picked on Georgia's home record. Well there is a reason Southern teams (including Texas and Oklahoma teams play more home games, early season weather up North. Most Northern teams tour the South until they can play outdoors with decent weather. The second reason for it is the gate. The top women's programs in the Southeast and Southwest operate in the black and it is a revenue sport which draws well enough to keep it in the black. Most of the rest of the country runs red ink on Softball.

Note that the argument to be made is that after a 2-11 away from home record, A&M should get the benefit of the doubt because that was mostly away games in conference and they are in the toughest conference. Not because they don't travel well and much of their winning record is due to taking full advantage of the opportunity to get home cooking against northern teams in the middle of a long road trip.

But neither of those points actually point toward the conclusion that they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

The fact that a school has a financial incentive to play a lot of home games does not mean that a team like A&M that was 2-11 away from home should get the benefit of the doubt when it comes time for an at-large pick.

And the fact that a southern school has an strong opportunity to play all or almost all OOC games at home also does not means that a team that struggles to win away from home should get the benefit of the doubt.

If they wanted to show that they could win on the road when not playing SEC level competition, they had a chance to set up more OOC games on the road ... and opted not to. There's no particular reason they should get the benefit of the doubt as to whether they are a team that travels poorly and only enjoyed a winning record due to the limited number of road games they played.

Let's bring this home shall we? Gaucho's original post was that the SEC didn't deserve to get "all" of its teams in. My initial post said that his best case was A&M. I pointed out the justifications but didn't say that I agreed with them.

I believe I went on to point out that `I thought the SEC would get 5 maybe 6 into the Super Regionals. Isn't that where we are. I said I thought we would get 2 to 3 into the final 8 and that the PAC would as well and that I expected to see Florida State and Oklahoma there as well. All of that still looks very likely.

10 possibly 11 (if Georgia finishes off Drake hopefully today due to weather) of the SEC's 13 entrants will have advanced to the Regional's final game.

I think that more than justifies 11 of the 13 picks. Arkansas finished near the middle of the PAC in the SEC so that justifies them.

A&M was and is the weakest link and if you guys want to make the argument that A&M didn't deserve to be there then I conceded that point in my first post.

So what are you arguing about if not butt hurt???

When the Big 10 sends one to the final 8 you'll start getting some kudos.

What I said about the Big 12 and ACC stands. Texas and Oklahoma are there with OSU getting as far as it did with a soft regional and Texas Tech getting a very tough one. The only regional softer was Michigan's. The ACC has only F.S.U. still standing. IMO Florida had a soft regional as well and the Gators have 2 strong pitchers and a sub average offensive team.

So I wasn't measuring anything with you just stating how things were. So get over your angst. It is what it is.

Now to CuBucks, statistics like winning %'s in tournaments are deceiving. The more schools you get in the less your % will be because ultimately there is only 1 winner and all of these pick up 2 losses each when eliminated. Tournaments need no stats because everyone but 1 loses.

Bowl season is a little bit different because mostly its just one game for each school with the exception of the CFP. But even then whether still have your coach, motivation to play, the NFL draftees that sit out, etc, all figure in.

College Baseball and College Softball look fair because like the NCAA tournament 64 schools (more in the case of basketball) get invited. But they have long been seeded to help the schools with the best draws host regionals and super regionals because it looks better on TV to have some people at the games.

For those of you who are Big 10 fans just go back and look at your school's OOC opponents and where they lost and you'll get a better idea why they were seeded where they were and who got gifted because of draw. Michigan got the gift. Northwestern earned it. Kentucky got the gift in the SEC along with Florida. Alabama earned it. There's nothing fair about these brackets and there won't be in baseball either. It's designed to put the schools with the best followings in position to go to Oklahoma City or Omaha. Every now and then a Fresno State or Oregon State is just simply good enough to crash the party in baseball, and a Louisiana Lafayette is in Softball. But it's an uphill climb no matter what.

So wrap your heads around that and take it for what it is. And then think about how and why the NCAA sets up these tournaments and why they like them. They make money off of them, particularly if the advertisers have strong draws near the finals.

Fair my azz! No SEC pud measuring contest here. We have the deepest conference in softball talent with the best attendance in the sport. Half of our teams earned their way in and the other half are window dressing for TV but then so too are some of the names that get in every year from other conferences (besides the PAC where all of those in earned it because their ratings are lousy) and host regionals so that local affiliates can carry the games in large demographic areas.

It's not about the SEC. It's about the NCAA staging yet another tournament so it can rake in a disproportionate share of the advertising revenue while the teams see little and then have to wait for a few years to earn their tourney creds in full.

There's a lot to like about our board, but this isn't one of them. If you want to get pissy then direct it where it belongs, the NCAA. And learn to read and to discern without your insecurities leading to the misdirection of your general irritation about all things unfair. Nothing in life is fair. It's subject to random misjudgments by good officials, subject to intentional miscalls by crooked officials, subject to the earning potential of the event sponsors, and that's before your players even take the field or court. Nothing in life is ultimately fair. Not grading if you get 1 teacher who simply hates you because you look just like the son in law that ditched his daughter with 3 kids, or hates your political affiliation, or with disease where one promising young person is cut down by cancer and a dumb dolt lives to be 105, or where tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, forest fires, or tsunamis wipe out lives for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or where your pilot trusted the anti stall computer program on your 737X.

Sports is a pass time that most of us here enjoy watching. In the end it is simply entertainment and whether Alabama or Ohio State picks up their umpteenth championship or not will never impact your living or dying. It might make 1 day or even a month more enjoyable but ultimately it means nothing.

Save your ire for the Communist Chinese who are stealing our secrets and those of our allies and for the North Koreans who probably will never kill you with a missile but who are very much behind identity theft and ruining lives by internet hacking. The rest of this doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2019 10:49 AM by JRsec.)
05-20-2019 10:23 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cubucks Online
Special Teams
*

Posts: 634
Joined: Apr 2015
Reputation: 61
I Root For: Buckeyes/Ohio
Location: Athens, Ohio
Post: #26
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
(05-20-2019 10:23 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-20-2019 03:57 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-19-2019 01:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Gaucho picked on Georgia's home record. Well there is a reason Southern teams (including Texas and Oklahoma teams play more home games, early season weather up North. Most Northern teams tour the South until they can play outdoors with decent weather. The second reason for it is the gate. The top women's programs in the Southeast and Southwest operate in the black and it is a revenue sport which draws well enough to keep it in the black. Most of the rest of the country runs red ink on Softball.

Note that the argument to be made is that after a 2-11 away from home record, A&M should get the benefit of the doubt because that was mostly away games in conference and they are in the toughest conference. Not because they don't travel well and much of their winning record is due to taking full advantage of the opportunity to get home cooking against northern teams in the middle of a long road trip.

But neither of those points actually point toward the conclusion that they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

The fact that a school has a financial incentive to play a lot of home games does not mean that a team like A&M that was 2-11 away from home should get the benefit of the doubt when it comes time for an at-large pick.

And the fact that a southern school has an strong opportunity to play all or almost all OOC games at home also does not means that a team that struggles to win away from home should get the benefit of the doubt.

If they wanted to show that they could win on the road when not playing SEC level competition, they had a chance to set up more OOC games on the road ... and opted not to. There's no particular reason they should get the benefit of the doubt as to whether they are a team that travels poorly and only enjoyed a winning record due to the limited number of road games they played.

Let's bring this home shall we? Gaucho's original post was that the SEC didn't deserve to get "all" of its teams in. My initial post said that his best case was A&M. I pointed out the justifications but didn't say that I agreed with them.

I believe I went on to point out that `I thought the SEC would get 5 maybe 6 into the Super Regionals. Isn't that where we are. I said I thought we would get 2 to 3 into the final 8 and that the PAC would as well and that I expected to see Florida State and Oklahoma there as well. All of that still looks very likely.

10 possibly 11 (if Georgia finishes off Drake hopefully today due to weather) of the SEC's 13 entrants will have advanced to the Regional's final game.

I think that more than justifies 11 of the 13 picks. Arkansas finished near the middle of the PAC in the SEC so that justifies them.

A&M was and is the weakest link and if you guys want to make the argument that A&M didn't deserve to be there then I conceded that point in my first post.

So what are you arguing about if not butt hurt???

When the Big 10 sends one to the final 8 you'll start getting some kudos.

What I said about the Big 12 and ACC stands. Texas and Oklahoma with OSU getting as far as it did with a soft regional and Texas Tech getting a very tough one. The only regional softer was Michigan's. The ACC has only F.S.U. still standing. IMO Florida had a soft regional as well and the Gators have 2 strong pitchers and a sub average offensive team.

So I wasn't measuring anything with you just stating how things were. So get over your angst. It is what it is.

Now to CuBucks, statistics like winning %'s in tournaments are deceiving. The more schools you get in less your % will be because ultimately there is only 1 winner and all of these pick up 2 losses each when eliminated. Tournaments need no stats because everyone but 1 loses.

Bowl season is a little bit different because mostly its just one game for each school with the exception of the CFP. But even then still having your coach, motivation to play, the NFL draftees that sit out, etc, all figure in.

College Baseball and College Softball look fair because like the NCAA tournament 64 schools (more in the case of basketball) get invited. But they have long been seeded to help the schools with the best draws host regionals and super regionals because it looks better on TV to have some people at the games.

For those of you who are Big 10 fans just go back and look at your school's OOC opponents and where they lost and you'll get a better idea why they were seeded where they were and who got gifted because of draw. Michigan got the gift. Northwestern earned it. Kentucky got the gift in the SEC along with Florida. Alabama earned it. There's nothing fair about these brackets and there won't be in baseball either. It's designed to put the schools with the best followings in position to go to Oklahoma City or Omaha. Every now and then a Fresno State or Oregon State is just simply good enough to crash the party in baseball, and a Louisiana Lafayette is in Softball. But it's an uphill climb no matter what.

So wrap your heads around that and take it for what it is. And then think about how and why the NCAA sets up these tournaments and why they like them. They make money off of them, particularly if the advertisers have strong draws near the finals.

Fair my azz! No SEC pud measuring contest here. We have the deepest conference in softball talent with the best attendance in the sport. Half of our teams earned their way in and the other half are window dressing for TV but then so too are some of the names that get in every year from other conferences (besides the PAC where all of those in earned it because their ratings are lousy) and host regionals so that local affiliates can carry the games in large demographic areas.

It's not about the SEC. It's about the NCAA staging yet another tournament so it can rake in a disproportionate share of the advertising revenue while the teams see little and then have to wait for a few years to earn their tourney creds in full.
I agree with your point on winning % once the tournament ages. I like this metric right now because I don't believe any P5 schools have played their peers yet? So its firm, in my opinion, on how these conferences are doing against teams outside of their own conference.

As for the BIG 10, I really dont have any expectations for them. I just enjoy softball period! Could care less who or where a team is from that wins it all. It's not going to be Ohio State and if for some reason it's a BIG school. I'm not taking credit for it simply because OSU is in the same conference.
05-20-2019 10:37 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SoCalBobcat78 Online
1st String
*

Posts: 1,542
Joined: Jan 2014
Reputation: 53
I Root For: TXST, UCLA, CBU
Location:
Post: #27
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
(05-20-2019 01:30 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Texas A&M finished in last place in the SEC, and just one game over .500 overall. In what other sport does the last place team earn an at-large bid? They were 2-11 away from home. They went one and done in the SEC tournament. This is not the whiny cult of victimization, JR.

UNLV and San Jose State both had top-50 RPIs in a solid Mountain West. Both got snubbed for a last place team.

I can see your point, but it would help if the west just kept more of their better players at home. The SEC and Oklahoma have developed strong softball programs in the past decade. Part of that success is recruiting players from all over the country, particularly out west.

In the 2018 College World Series, the Pac-12 had four of the eight schools in the series. Oklahoma had 10 of the 21 players on their roster from California. There were also two players from Arizona and one from Hawaii. Florida had 6 of the 19 players on their roster from California. Georgia and Florida State only had one each, although the player on Florida State was All-ACC in 2018. As a comparison, UCLA only had one out-of-state player on their entire roster.

California had a total of 70 players on the eight world series rosters. Keep some of the good players at home and this (being snubbed) is not an issue. The MWC and Big West need to get competitive in recruiting softball players in the west.
05-20-2019 12:44 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cubucks Online
Special Teams
*

Posts: 634
Joined: Apr 2015
Reputation: 61
I Root For: Buckeyes/Ohio
Location: Athens, Ohio
Post: #28
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
(05-20-2019 12:44 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(05-20-2019 01:30 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Texas A&M finished in last place in the SEC, and just one game over .500 overall. In what other sport does the last place team earn an at-large bid? They were 2-11 away from home. They went one and done in the SEC tournament. This is not the whiny cult of victimization, JR.

UNLV and San Jose State both had top-50 RPIs in a solid Mountain West. Both got snubbed for a last place team.

I can see your point, but it would help if the west just kept more of their better players at home. The SEC and Oklahoma have developed strong softball programs in the past decade. Part of that success is recruiting players from all over the country, particularly out west.

In the 2018 College World Series, the Pac-12 had four of the eight schools in the series. Oklahoma had 10 of the 21 players on their roster from California. There were also two players from Arizona and one from Hawaii. Florida had 6 of the 19 players on their roster from California. Georgia and Florida State only had one each, although the player on Florida State was All-ACC in 2018. As a comparison, UCLA only had one out-of-state player on their entire roster.

California had a total of 70 players on the eight world series rosters. Keep some of the good players at home and this (being snubbed) is not an issue. The MWC and Big West need to get competitive in recruiting softball players in the west.
Great post with really good information.
I'd give you points but I'm still new.
05-20-2019 12:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 20,138
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 1599
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #29
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
(05-20-2019 10:37 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(05-20-2019 10:23 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-20-2019 03:57 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-19-2019 01:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Gaucho picked on Georgia's home record. Well there is a reason Southern teams (including Texas and Oklahoma teams play more home games, early season weather up North. Most Northern teams tour the South until they can play outdoors with decent weather. The second reason for it is the gate. The top women's programs in the Southeast and Southwest operate in the black and it is a revenue sport which draws well enough to keep it in the black. Most of the rest of the country runs red ink on Softball.

Note that the argument to be made is that after a 2-11 away from home record, A&M should get the benefit of the doubt because that was mostly away games in conference and they are in the toughest conference. Not because they don't travel well and much of their winning record is due to taking full advantage of the opportunity to get home cooking against northern teams in the middle of a long road trip.

But neither of those points actually point toward the conclusion that they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

The fact that a school has a financial incentive to play a lot of home games does not mean that a team like A&M that was 2-11 away from home should get the benefit of the doubt when it comes time for an at-large pick.

And the fact that a southern school has an strong opportunity to play all or almost all OOC games at home also does not means that a team that struggles to win away from home should get the benefit of the doubt.

If they wanted to show that they could win on the road when not playing SEC level competition, they had a chance to set up more OOC games on the road ... and opted not to. There's no particular reason they should get the benefit of the doubt as to whether they are a team that travels poorly and only enjoyed a winning record due to the limited number of road games they played.

Let's bring this home shall we? Gaucho's original post was that the SEC didn't deserve to get "all" of its teams in. My initial post said that his best case was A&M. I pointed out the justifications but didn't say that I agreed with them.

I believe I went on to point out that `I thought the SEC would get 5 maybe 6 into the Super Regionals. Isn't that where we are. I said I thought we would get 2 to 3 into the final 8 and that the PAC would as well and that I expected to see Florida State and Oklahoma there as well. All of that still looks very likely.

10 possibly 11 (if Georgia finishes off Drake hopefully today due to weather) of the SEC's 13 entrants will have advanced to the Regional's final game.

I think that more than justifies 11 of the 13 picks. Arkansas finished near the middle of the PAC in the SEC so that justifies them.

A&M was and is the weakest link and if you guys want to make the argument that A&M didn't deserve to be there then I conceded that point in my first post.

So what are you arguing about if not butt hurt???

When the Big 10 sends one to the final 8 you'll start getting some kudos.

What I said about the Big 12 and ACC stands. Texas and Oklahoma with OSU getting as far as it did with a soft regional and Texas Tech getting a very tough one. The only regional softer was Michigan's. The ACC has only F.S.U. still standing. IMO Florida had a soft regional as well and the Gators have 2 strong pitchers and a sub average offensive team.

So I wasn't measuring anything with you just stating how things were. So get over your angst. It is what it is.

Now to CuBucks, statistics like winning %'s in tournaments are deceiving. The more schools you get in less your % will be because ultimately there is only 1 winner and all of these pick up 2 losses each when eliminated. Tournaments need no stats because everyone but 1 loses.

Bowl season is a little bit different because mostly its just one game for each school with the exception of the CFP. But even then still having your coach, motivation to play, the NFL draftees that sit out, etc, all figure in.

College Baseball and College Softball look fair because like the NCAA tournament 64 schools (more in the case of basketball) get invited. But they have long been seeded to help the schools with the best draws host regionals and super regionals because it looks better on TV to have some people at the games.

For those of you who are Big 10 fans just go back and look at your school's OOC opponents and where they lost and you'll get a better idea why they were seeded where they were and who got gifted because of draw. Michigan got the gift. Northwestern earned it. Kentucky got the gift in the SEC along with Florida. Alabama earned it. There's nothing fair about these brackets and there won't be in baseball either. It's designed to put the schools with the best followings in position to go to Oklahoma City or Omaha. Every now and then a Fresno State or Oregon State is just simply good enough to crash the party in baseball, and a Louisiana Lafayette is in Softball. But it's an uphill climb no matter what.

So wrap your heads around that and take it for what it is. And then think about how and why the NCAA sets up these tournaments and why they like them. They make money off of them, particularly if the advertisers have strong draws near the finals.

Fair my azz! No SEC pud measuring contest here. We have the deepest conference in softball talent with the best attendance in the sport. Half of our teams earned their way in and the other half are window dressing for TV but then so too are some of the names that get in every year from other conferences (besides the PAC where all of those in earned it because their ratings are lousy) and host regionals so that local affiliates can carry the games in large demographic areas.

It's not about the SEC. It's about the NCAA staging yet another tournament so it can rake in a disproportionate share of the advertising revenue while the teams see little and then have to wait for a few years to earn their tourney creds in full.
I agree with your point on winning % once the tournament ages. I like this metric right now because I don't believe any P5 schools have played their peers yet? So its firm, in my opinion, on how these conferences are doing against teams outside of their own conference.

As for the BIG 10, I really dont have any expectations for them. I just enjoy softball period! Could care less who or where a team is from that wins it all. It's not going to be Ohio State and if for some reason it's a BIG school. I'm not taking credit for it simply because OSU is in the same conference.

What you need to focus on are the regional hosts. Do you realize that if Michigan loses game 2 today versus James Madison that they will be the only Regional Host to lose???

Every other of the 16 regional hosts has advanced.

Next you will see that play out again in the Super Regionals. Probably not all Super Regional host teams will win but the majority of them will.

It's as predictable as saying the Summer will be hot. Seeding determines a lot in Women's softball.
05-20-2019 02:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cubucks Online
Special Teams
*

Posts: 634
Joined: Apr 2015
Reputation: 61
I Root For: Buckeyes/Ohio
Location: Athens, Ohio
Post: #30
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
(05-20-2019 02:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-20-2019 10:37 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(05-20-2019 10:23 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-20-2019 03:57 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-19-2019 01:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Gaucho picked on Georgia's home record. Well there is a reason Southern teams (including Texas and Oklahoma teams play more home games, early season weather up North. Most Northern teams tour the South until they can play outdoors with decent weather. The second reason for it is the gate. The top women's programs in the Southeast and Southwest operate in the black and it is a revenue sport which draws well enough to keep it in the black. Most of the rest of the country runs red ink on Softball.

Note that the argument to be made is that after a 2-11 away from home record, A&M should get the benefit of the doubt because that was mostly away games in conference and they are in the toughest conference. Not because they don't travel well and much of their winning record is due to taking full advantage of the opportunity to get home cooking against northern teams in the middle of a long road trip.

But neither of those points actually point toward the conclusion that they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

The fact that a school has a financial incentive to play a lot of home games does not mean that a team like A&M that was 2-11 away from home should get the benefit of the doubt when it comes time for an at-large pick.

And the fact that a southern school has an strong opportunity to play all or almost all OOC games at home also does not means that a team that struggles to win away from home should get the benefit of the doubt.

If they wanted to show that they could win on the road when not playing SEC level competition, they had a chance to set up more OOC games on the road ... and opted not to. There's no particular reason they should get the benefit of the doubt as to whether they are a team that travels poorly and only enjoyed a winning record due to the limited number of road games they played.

Let's bring this home shall we? Gaucho's original post was that the SEC didn't deserve to get "all" of its teams in. My initial post said that his best case was A&M. I pointed out the justifications but didn't say that I agreed with them.

I believe I went on to point out that `I thought the SEC would get 5 maybe 6 into the Super Regionals. Isn't that where we are. I said I thought we would get 2 to 3 into the final 8 and that the PAC would as well and that I expected to see Florida State and Oklahoma there as well. All of that still looks very likely.

10 possibly 11 (if Georgia finishes off Drake hopefully today due to weather) of the SEC's 13 entrants will have advanced to the Regional's final game.

I think that more than justifies 11 of the 13 picks. Arkansas finished near the middle of the PAC in the SEC so that justifies them.

A&M was and is the weakest link and if you guys want to make the argument that A&M didn't deserve to be there then I conceded that point in my first post.

So what are you arguing about if not butt hurt???

When the Big 10 sends one to the final 8 you'll start getting some kudos.

What I said about the Big 12 and ACC stands. Texas and Oklahoma with OSU getting as far as it did with a soft regional and Texas Tech getting a very tough one. The only regional softer was Michigan's. The ACC has only F.S.U. still standing. IMO Florida had a soft regional as well and the Gators have 2 strong pitchers and a sub average offensive team.

So I wasn't measuring anything with you just stating how things were. So get over your angst. It is what it is.

Now to CuBucks, statistics like winning %'s in tournaments are deceiving. The more schools you get in less your % will be because ultimately there is only 1 winner and all of these pick up 2 losses each when eliminated. Tournaments need no stats because everyone but 1 loses.

Bowl season is a little bit different because mostly its just one game for each school with the exception of the CFP. But even then still having your coach, motivation to play, the NFL draftees that sit out, etc, all figure in.

College Baseball and College Softball look fair because like the NCAA tournament 64 schools (more in the case of basketball) get invited. But they have long been seeded to help the schools with the best draws host regionals and super regionals because it looks better on TV to have some people at the games.

For those of you who are Big 10 fans just go back and look at your school's OOC opponents and where they lost and you'll get a better idea why they were seeded where they were and who got gifted because of draw. Michigan got the gift. Northwestern earned it. Kentucky got the gift in the SEC along with Florida. Alabama earned it. There's nothing fair about these brackets and there won't be in baseball either. It's designed to put the schools with the best followings in position to go to Oklahoma City or Omaha. Every now and then a Fresno State or Oregon State is just simply good enough to crash the party in baseball, and a Louisiana Lafayette is in Softball. But it's an uphill climb no matter what.

So wrap your heads around that and take it for what it is. And then think about how and why the NCAA sets up these tournaments and why they like them. They make money off of them, particularly if the advertisers have strong draws near the finals.

Fair my azz! No SEC pud measuring contest here. We have the deepest conference in softball talent with the best attendance in the sport. Half of our teams earned their way in and the other half are window dressing for TV but then so too are some of the names that get in every year from other conferences (besides the PAC where all of those in earned it because their ratings are lousy) and host regionals so that local affiliates can carry the games in large demographic areas.

It's not about the SEC. It's about the NCAA staging yet another tournament so it can rake in a disproportionate share of the advertising revenue while the teams see little and then have to wait for a few years to earn their tourney creds in full.
I agree with your point on winning % once the tournament ages. I like this metric right now because I don't believe any P5 schools have played their peers yet? So its firm, in my opinion, on how these conferences are doing against teams outside of their own conference.

As for the BIG 10, I really dont have any expectations for them. I just enjoy softball period! Could care less who or where a team is from that wins it all. It's not going to be Ohio State and if for some reason it's a BIG school. I'm not taking credit for it simply because OSU is in the same conference.

What you need to focus on are the regional hosts. Do you realize that if Michigan loses game 2 today versus James Madison that they will be the only Regional Host to lose???

Every other of the 16 regional hosts has advanced.

Next you will see that play out again in the Super Regionals. Probably not all Super Regional host teams will win but the majority of them will.

It's as predictable as saying the Summer will be hot. Seeding determines a lot in Women's softball.
If Michigan loses, it couldn't happen to a better team in my book!

I did hear an announcer say 8 regionals have played the full 7 games. I believe they said that was a record? I like it, good competition is a great thing.
05-20-2019 03:02 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cubucks Online
Special Teams
*

Posts: 634
Joined: Apr 2015
Reputation: 61
I Root For: Buckeyes/Ohio
Location: Athens, Ohio
Post: #31
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
Huge shout out to James Madison. Congratulations, Dukes!
05-20-2019 04:45 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
dbackjon Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,278
Joined: May 2010
Reputation: 212
I Root For: NAU/Illini
Location:
Post: #32
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
(05-20-2019 04:45 PM)cubucks Wrote:  Huge shout out to James Madison. Congratulations, Dukes!

Only non-P5 team to advance, only non-host to advance.
05-20-2019 04:45 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cubucks Online
Special Teams
*

Posts: 634
Joined: Apr 2015
Reputation: 61
I Root For: Buckeyes/Ohio
Location: Athens, Ohio
Post: #33
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
Congratulations, Oklahoma State!

World Series bound!!!

Happy I didn't wager any money on FSU as I picked them to win it all.

Cowgirls!
05-25-2019 01:19 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cubucks Online
Special Teams
*

Posts: 634
Joined: Apr 2015
Reputation: 61
I Root For: Buckeyes/Ohio
Location: Athens, Ohio
Post: #34
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
Alabama moving on to the world series. I'm going out on a limb and saying Oklahoma is too. Looks like the have that game in hand.

Congratulations to both schools!

Roll Tide!
Sooners!
05-25-2019 05:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
sugarbuzz Online
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 17
Joined: Jul 2011
Reputation: 3
I Root For: the Midwest
Location:
Post: #35
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
(05-25-2019 05:26 PM)cubucks Wrote:  Alabama moving on to the world series. I'm going out on a limb and saying Oklahoma is too. Looks like the have that game in hand.

Congratulations to both schools!

Roll Tide!
Sooners!

And the Gophers. Ski-U-Mah!
05-25-2019 07:16 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cubucks Online
Special Teams
*

Posts: 634
Joined: Apr 2015
Reputation: 61
I Root For: Buckeyes/Ohio
Location: Athens, Ohio
Post: #36
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
(05-25-2019 07:16 PM)sugarbuzz Wrote:  
(05-25-2019 05:26 PM)cubucks Wrote:  Alabama moving on to the world series. I'm going out on a limb and saying Oklahoma is too. Looks like the have that game in hand.

Congratulations to both schools!

Roll Tide!
Sooners!

And the Gophers. Ski-U-Mah!
Congrats, Gophers!

First world series appearance in school history.

Golden Gophers!
05-25-2019 08:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
AZcats Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 748
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 48
I Root For: stAte, af, zona
Location: Pike's Peak
Post: #37
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
Bear Down Arizona!
05-25-2019 11:38 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SoCalBobcat78 Online
1st String
*

Posts: 1,542
Joined: Jan 2014
Reputation: 53
I Root For: TXST, UCLA, CBU
Location:
Post: #38
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
The PAC-12 is sending three schools to the World Series: Arizona, Washington and UCLA. The Bruins are making their 5th straight World Series appearance and record overall 29th appearance. They will be shooting for a record 13th World Series title. The Big 12 and SEC will each have two teams in the series, while the Big 10 will have one. The ACC is not represented this year.
05-26-2019 12:57 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bullet Online
Legend
*

Posts: 33,559
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 911
I Root For: Texas, UK, UGA
Location:
Post: #39
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
(05-20-2019 02:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-20-2019 10:37 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(05-20-2019 10:23 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-20-2019 03:57 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-19-2019 01:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Gaucho picked on Georgia's home record. Well there is a reason Southern teams (including Texas and Oklahoma teams play more home games, early season weather up North. Most Northern teams tour the South until they can play outdoors with decent weather. The second reason for it is the gate. The top women's programs in the Southeast and Southwest operate in the black and it is a revenue sport which draws well enough to keep it in the black. Most of the rest of the country runs red ink on Softball.

Note that the argument to be made is that after a 2-11 away from home record, A&M should get the benefit of the doubt because that was mostly away games in conference and they are in the toughest conference. Not because they don't travel well and much of their winning record is due to taking full advantage of the opportunity to get home cooking against northern teams in the middle of a long road trip.

But neither of those points actually point toward the conclusion that they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

The fact that a school has a financial incentive to play a lot of home games does not mean that a team like A&M that was 2-11 away from home should get the benefit of the doubt when it comes time for an at-large pick.

And the fact that a southern school has an strong opportunity to play all or almost all OOC games at home also does not means that a team that struggles to win away from home should get the benefit of the doubt.

If they wanted to show that they could win on the road when not playing SEC level competition, they had a chance to set up more OOC games on the road ... and opted not to. There's no particular reason they should get the benefit of the doubt as to whether they are a team that travels poorly and only enjoyed a winning record due to the limited number of road games they played.

Let's bring this home shall we? Gaucho's original post was that the SEC didn't deserve to get "all" of its teams in. My initial post said that his best case was A&M. I pointed out the justifications but didn't say that I agreed with them.

I believe I went on to point out that `I thought the SEC would get 5 maybe 6 into the Super Regionals. Isn't that where we are. I said I thought we would get 2 to 3 into the final 8 and that the PAC would as well and that I expected to see Florida State and Oklahoma there as well. All of that still looks very likely.

10 possibly 11 (if Georgia finishes off Drake hopefully today due to weather) of the SEC's 13 entrants will have advanced to the Regional's final game.

I think that more than justifies 11 of the 13 picks. Arkansas finished near the middle of the PAC in the SEC so that justifies them.

A&M was and is the weakest link and if you guys want to make the argument that A&M didn't deserve to be there then I conceded that point in my first post.

So what are you arguing about if not butt hurt???

When the Big 10 sends one to the final 8 you'll start getting some kudos.

What I said about the Big 12 and ACC stands. Texas and Oklahoma with OSU getting as far as it did with a soft regional and Texas Tech getting a very tough one. The only regional softer was Michigan's. The ACC has only F.S.U. still standing. IMO Florida had a soft regional as well and the Gators have 2 strong pitchers and a sub average offensive team.

So I wasn't measuring anything with you just stating how things were. So get over your angst. It is what it is.

Now to CuBucks, statistics like winning %'s in tournaments are deceiving. The more schools you get in less your % will be because ultimately there is only 1 winner and all of these pick up 2 losses each when eliminated. Tournaments need no stats because everyone but 1 loses.

Bowl season is a little bit different because mostly its just one game for each school with the exception of the CFP. But even then still having your coach, motivation to play, the NFL draftees that sit out, etc, all figure in.

College Baseball and College Softball look fair because like the NCAA tournament 64 schools (more in the case of basketball) get invited. But they have long been seeded to help the schools with the best draws host regionals and super regionals because it looks better on TV to have some people at the games.

For those of you who are Big 10 fans just go back and look at your school's OOC opponents and where they lost and you'll get a better idea why they were seeded where they were and who got gifted because of draw. Michigan got the gift. Northwestern earned it. Kentucky got the gift in the SEC along with Florida. Alabama earned it. There's nothing fair about these brackets and there won't be in baseball either. It's designed to put the schools with the best followings in position to go to Oklahoma City or Omaha. Every now and then a Fresno State or Oregon State is just simply good enough to crash the party in baseball, and a Louisiana Lafayette is in Softball. But it's an uphill climb no matter what.

So wrap your heads around that and take it for what it is. And then think about how and why the NCAA sets up these tournaments and why they like them. They make money off of them, particularly if the advertisers have strong draws near the finals.

Fair my azz! No SEC pud measuring contest here. We have the deepest conference in softball talent with the best attendance in the sport. Half of our teams earned their way in and the other half are window dressing for TV but then so too are some of the names that get in every year from other conferences (besides the PAC where all of those in earned it because their ratings are lousy) and host regionals so that local affiliates can carry the games in large demographic areas.

It's not about the SEC. It's about the NCAA staging yet another tournament so it can rake in a disproportionate share of the advertising revenue while the teams see little and then have to wait for a few years to earn their tourney creds in full.
I agree with your point on winning % once the tournament ages. I like this metric right now because I don't believe any P5 schools have played their peers yet? So its firm, in my opinion, on how these conferences are doing against teams outside of their own conference.

As for the BIG 10, I really dont have any expectations for them. I just enjoy softball period! Could care less who or where a team is from that wins it all. It's not going to be Ohio State and if for some reason it's a BIG school. I'm not taking credit for it simply because OSU is in the same conference.

What you need to focus on are the regional hosts. Do you realize that if Michigan loses game 2 today versus James Madison that they will be the only Regional Host to lose???

Every other of the 16 regional hosts has advanced.

Next you will see that play out again in the Super Regionals. Probably not all Super Regional host teams will win but the majority of them will.

It's as predictable as saying the Summer will be hot. Seeding determines a lot in Women's softball.

Can't really argue with the seeding at the top through the super-regionals
#1 seed OU beat #16 Northwestern in 2
#8 seed Alabama beat #9 Texas in 3
#5 Florida and #12 Tennessee are tied 1-1
#13 Oklahoma St. beat #4 FSU in 3
#3 Washington beat #14 Kentucky in 2
#6 Arizona beat #11 Ole Miss in 2
#7 Minnesota beat #10 LSU in 2
#2 UCLA beat unranked James Madison in 2 (who beat out #15 Michigan)
05-26-2019 08:14 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cubucks Online
Special Teams
*

Posts: 634
Joined: Apr 2015
Reputation: 61
I Root For: Buckeyes/Ohio
Location: Athens, Ohio
Post: #40
RE: NCAA Softball tournament/world series
(05-26-2019 12:57 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  The PAC-12 is sending three schools to the World Series: Arizona, Washington and UCLA. The Bruins are making their 5th straight World Series appearance and record overall 29th appearance. They will be shooting for a record 13th World Series title. The Big 12 and SEC will each have two teams in the series, while the Big 10 will have one. The ACC is not represented this year.
Congratulations to all the teams moving on to the world series!
05-26-2019 09:29 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2019 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2019 MyBB Group.