(05-18-2019 07:52 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 05:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  And one of the people that covered it up sits in Congress.

I wonder if Republican Jim Jordan would get arrested and sent to prison like the leaders at Penn. State got for covering up the crime and not notifying the law? I think he should be removed from office.

Co-sign. He is a despicable slug.

(05-18-2019 07:40 AM)WesternSkillet Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 04:23 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Between Penn State, Michigan State, and now Ohio State, the B1G is easily the most sordid conference of this millennium.

And these are only the schools that were caught.

Yeah.

Or knew things but didn’t report them. That remains to stick with this Penn State thing, how you had this defensive mastermind with Sandusky, and PSU was his only spot. In the years that followed since the scandal, I waited for stories from other schools who might come forward and admit they entertained the thought of hiring the guy, and then something miraculously falling through and it never happening. I’m still waiting, and the silence is telling. There’s nobody rushing up to offer a “oh man, who could have known,” and I interpret that as one of those badly kept secrets around the football coaching fraternity. Guy was a monster. Everyone knew it enough to steer very clear of him and perhaps others of PSU staffs from those years.

That’s the stuff that scares me the most. It’s not whistleblowing. It’s absence of decency and bystanderism.

Higher ed is not the place for integrity.

More sex abuse from the banks of the Olentangy:

http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...use-campus

I'm sorry if this has been covered in this thread.

(05-17-2019 05:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  And one of the people that covered it up sits in Congress.

Jordan? You better back that up. Lots of people hear rumors.

(05-18-2019 08:52 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 07:52 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 05:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  And one of the people that covered it up sits in Congress.

I wonder if Republican Jim Jordan would get arrested and sent to prison like the leaders at Penn. State got for covering up the crime and not notifying the law? I think he should be removed from office.

Co-sign. He is a despicable slug.

Yeah because you are a leftist. You are a despicable slug, and David for suggesting Jordan covered up anything. Back it up. Hundreds of people knew about the guy if any of you even glanced at the report.

(05-18-2019 04:21 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 08:52 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 07:52 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 05:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  And one of the people that covered it up sits in Congress.

I wonder if Republican Jim Jordan would get arrested and sent to prison like the leaders at Penn. State got for covering up the crime and not notifying the law? I think he should be removed from office.

Co-sign. He is a despicable slug.

Yeah because you are a leftist. You are a despicable slug, and David for suggesting Jordan covered up anything. Back it up. Hundreds of people knew about the guy if any of you even glanced at the report.

Jordan was one of the wrestling coaches when several athletes came forward at the time to complained about it. He only turned his back on the whole issue.

(05-18-2019 04:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 04:21 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 08:52 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 07:52 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 05:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  And one of the people that covered it up sits in Congress.

I wonder if Republican Jim Jordan would get arrested and sent to prison like the leaders at Penn. State got for covering up the crime and not notifying the law? I think he should be removed from office.

Co-sign. He is a despicable slug.

Yeah because you are a leftist. You are a despicable slug, and David for suggesting Jordan covered up anything. Back it up. Hundreds of people knew about the guy if any of you even glanced at the report.

Jordan was one of the wrestling coaches when several athletes came forward at the time to complained about it. He only turned his back on the whole issue.

Did you read the report? Hundreds of people know of, heard rumors, saw stuff blah blah blah. Many athletes thought it was some sort hazing ritual. One more time David. Show me evidence that Jordan witnessed a sexual assault and then tried to cover it up for the benefit of OSU or himself. The coach at Texas, Herman, when he was the head coach at Houston he would kiss all of his players on the cheek, WTF is that. Is that an assault?

If none of the hundreds of victims went to the police, then why should the employer be punished 22 years later for not telling the police?

I believe we're past the statute of limitations for every crime except murder.

(05-18-2019 06:59 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  If none of the hundreds of victims went to the police, then why should the employer be punished 22 years later for not telling the police?

I believe we're past the statute of limitations for every crime except murder.

The newer cases before he retired could count.

As for Jordan? He was told directly what the sicko scumbag was doing. Jordan did nothing.

(05-18-2019 08:03 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 12:49 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 04:20 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story...ctor-abuse

Quote:At least 177 men were sexually abused by an Ohio State team doctor who died years ago, the university said Friday as it released findings from a law firm that investigated the accusations and concluded that school leaders knew at the time.

The claims about Richard Strauss span from 1979-1997 -- nearly his entire time at Ohio State -- and involve athletes from at least 16 sports, plus his work at the student health center and his off-campus clinic.

Of the 177 men, 145 were identified as athletes from a list of sports that includes wrestling, gymnastics, swimming and diving, soccer, lacrosse, hockey, track and field, baseball, cross country, fencing, volleyball, tennis, football, cheerleading and golf.

According to the report, more than half of the abuse reports came from athletes assigned to the practice facility where Strauss worked as a team physician.

Many of the men who have spoken publicly said they were groped and inappropriately touched during physical exams and ogled in locker rooms. The athletes also discussed Strauss' behavior with one another, referring to him with nicknames like "Dr. Jelly Paws."

...

One student, a 14-year-old high school wrestler at the time of Strauss' abuse, told investigators Strauss molested him and other minors during the course of the doctor's work with high schools and an Ohio State wrestling camp. No other such accounts were included in unredacted portions of the report.

Will the NCAA hold a self-righteous execution like they did of Penn State?

Will Ohio State get any penalties, or will the Ohio Bobcats be handed the death penalty instead?

At what point does elimination of the NCAA achieve not only financial autonomy but a higher ethical standard?

Oh, I don't know, maybe 30 or 40 years ago!

Oh for crying out loud! The schools run the NCAA, if they disbanded the NCAA and set up a new governing body the same damn folks who make up the rules now would be making up the rules then. The power schools have all the say now and would have all the say in any new organization. People need to stop thinking it's some independent organization holding these schools and athletes down. Everything the NCAA does is at the approval of the P5. EVERYTHING!

This.

+2

(05-18-2019 11:36 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 08:03 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Oh for crying out loud! The schools run the NCAA, if they disbanded the NCAA and set up a new governing body the same damn folks who make up the rules now would be making up the rules then. The power schools have all the say now and would have all the say in any new organization. People need to stop thinking it's some independent organization holding these schools and athletes down. Everything the NCAA does is at the approval of the P5. EVERYTHING!

This.

+2

I think the NCAA was founded as a legal structure to divorce the economic income from the people generating it under an elaborate PR campaign known as the "student athlete". And while the NCAA's commercials might be true for a typical athlete competing in swimming and diving in Division 2, we all know they're utterly divorced from reality when it comes to the people paying for everything (men's hoops, and until recently football). Without that money there is no commercial and there is no Division 2 swimming and diving. There is absolutely truth in the P5 having a great deal of control over how the NCAA behaves. The NCAA accepted being neutered as an organization when the P5 took the football money away in exchange for survival. But that arrangement is a self-defeating one. You can't police people you have no authority over. That never works. But they don't have outright control. They are beholden to the lie of a business model the NCAA represents. If you start from scratch you're going to have to pay people above and beyond tuition. In football maybe even considerably so. That's such an expensive proposition you're severing yourself from 99% of the rest of the schools that have athletic programs. The world would become considerably more NAIA-ish, and maybe that's good and healthy in the long run. If you kill the NCAA, you probably uncork the genie. And if you play that out, there may not be enough "lesser" programs hanging around for you to buy paycheck wins from to pad your record to look more successful to keep your fans happy. If you turn just the top programs against just the top programs you're going to create new bottom programs and bleed them out and further thin out the ranks. Things could get ugly in that brave new world not just for the Kent States and Akrons ... but the Wake Forests and Vanderbilts and Northwesterns and Kansas States too.

(05-18-2019 07:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 06:59 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  If none of the hundreds of victims went to the police, then why should the employer be punished 22 years later for not telling the police?

I believe we're past the statute of limitations for every crime except murder.

The newer cases before he retired could count.

As for Jordan? He was told directly what the sicko scumbag was doing. Jordan did nothing.

David just stop, you are venturing into a world you know nothing about. Did you actually read the investigation, David?

Statute of criminal limitations has past, plus the Dr. is dead. The only thing the victims can do is take OSU to court in a civil matter.

(05-18-2019 11:36 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 08:03 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 12:49 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 04:20 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story...ctor-abuse

Quote:At least 177 men were sexually abused by an Ohio State team doctor who died years ago, the university said Friday as it released findings from a law firm that investigated the accusations and concluded that school leaders knew at the time.

The claims about Richard Strauss span from 1979-1997 -- nearly his entire time at Ohio State -- and involve athletes from at least 16 sports, plus his work at the student health center and his off-campus clinic.

Of the 177 men, 145 were identified as athletes from a list of sports that includes wrestling, gymnastics, swimming and diving, soccer, lacrosse, hockey, track and field, baseball, cross country, fencing, volleyball, tennis, football, cheerleading and golf.

According to the report, more than half of the abuse reports came from athletes assigned to the practice facility where Strauss worked as a team physician.

Many of the men who have spoken publicly said they were groped and inappropriately touched during physical exams and ogled in locker rooms. The athletes also discussed Strauss' behavior with one another, referring to him with nicknames like "Dr. Jelly Paws."

...

One student, a 14-year-old high school wrestler at the time of Strauss' abuse, told investigators Strauss molested him and other minors during the course of the doctor's work with high schools and an Ohio State wrestling camp. No other such accounts were included in unredacted portions of the report.

Will the NCAA hold a self-righteous execution like they did of Penn State?

Will Ohio State get any penalties, or will the Ohio Bobcats be handed the death penalty instead?

At what point does elimination of the NCAA achieve not only financial autonomy but a higher ethical standard?

Oh, I don't know, maybe 30 or 40 years ago!

Oh for crying out loud! The schools run the NCAA, if they disbanded the NCAA and set up a new governing body the same damn folks who make up the rules now would be making up the rules then. The power schools have all the say now and would have all the say in any new organization. People need to stop thinking it's some independent organization holding these schools and athletes down. Everything the NCAA does is at the approval of the P5. EVERYTHING!

This.

+2

The NCAA is a bloated bureaucracy which skims 70 million a year off of the NCAA basketball tournament and rolls into into an set of endowments worth a combined 1 Billion dollars. The tourney is the cash cow because they can no longer take a cut of football media revenue like they did back before the early 80's when ABC had the contract with the NCAA and not the conferences.

So they pander to the football crowd to keep the basketball money which they dole out over several years, always in arrears so they can make interest on the lump sum before anyone gets paid.

They have no teeth for enforcement, have had zero oversight over gross immorality, didn't dare touch UNC for academic fraud, and truly only nail the small market schools who don't play good basketball. Small market means the Network isn't ticked off, and not being a good basketball product means that by nailing them the NCAA isn't hurting any of it's TV audience for the Tourney.

That way the top brands skate, top hoops programs are virtually untouchable, and they stay fat and happy.

If you want enforcement then everyone should pool the cost of hiring an outside entity to police the sport.

But if you really want to know who gets hosed by the NCAA it's the little schools who only get a pittance of that Tourney money and then it is parsed out to them over a few years time.

They are a self serving bureaucratic system functioning as a quasi governing force which has been without any real authority for over 30 years.

Worthless as the proverbial boobies on a boar hog!

(05-18-2019 04:21 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 08:52 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 07:52 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 05:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  And one of the people that covered it up sits in Congress.

I wonder if Republican Jim Jordan would get arrested and sent to prison like the leaders at Penn. State got for covering up the crime and not notifying the law? I think he should be removed from office.

Co-sign. He is a despicable slug.

Yeah because you are a leftist. You are a despicable slug, and David for suggesting Jordan covered up anything. Back it up. Hundreds of people knew about the guy if any of you even glanced at the report.

Leftist? Lol, compared to you, Genghis, many people are Che Guevara.

"Hundreds of people knew" is your cited defense of Jordan, but you believe a report commissioned by Ohio State itself that miraculously concludes that neither he nor any other Ohio State coach knew a thing about it....

I would have the same opinion if Jordan were the Democratic Speaker of the House.

Then, there is this:

"But several wrestlers insist Jordan knew, directly or indirectly, about Strauss' behavior, and he was named in lawsuits against the university. Other wrestlers told POLITICO they were regularly harassed in their training facility by sexually aggressive men who attended the university or worked there and that Jordan and other coaches did nothing to stop the behavior."

I will stick with my opinions and you can stick with yours. I won't clutter this thread up with more discussions with you.

We’ll keep walking these things back to duty and obligation and continue to stumble over and fail on higher ed’s hierarchical structures, fiefdoms, administrative bloat, and insane protocols and procedures.

What is a coach really supposed to do, and how far or where are they supposed to hand it over, properly? The hard pill to swallow is, as big as these schools are/were, while there could have been policies, good luck finding anyone competent to interpret and administer these sort of issues and investigations.

“Holy crap, I saw coach diddle a kid?! I know, I’ll tell another coach, since they’ll know what to do!” And then it goes off into crazy town all the rest of the way up...sensing a trend yet?

(05-19-2019 11:31 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  We’ll keep walking these things back to duty and obligation and continue to stumble over and fail on higher ed’s hierarchical structures, fiefdoms, administrative bloat, and insane protocols and procedures.

What is a coach really supposed to do, and how far or where are they supposed to hand it over, properly? The hard pill to swallow is, as big as these schools are/were, while there could have been policies, good luck finding anyone competent to interpret and administer these sort of issues and investigations.

“Holy crap, I saw coach diddle a kid?! I know, I’ll tell another coach, since they’ll know what to do!” And then it goes off into crazy town all the rest of the way up...sensing a trend yet?

The only trend I sense is the one that takes root and persists because victims and responsible adults fail to do the right thing, such that perpetrators feel free to continue doing what they do. If the serial dirt-bags at Penn State, Michigan State, and Ohio State had been caught early and removed/punished, we wouldn't be reading about years of malfeasance and HUNDREDS of additional victims.

No, you don't tell another coach; you intervene. Beyond that, you get out your cell-phone, capture evidence (make many copies) and report the incident to the police, preferably not the campus cops. The police should know what to do, but if they balk because they're also cowed by or in the thrall of a popular, powerful coach or school administration, then threaten to expose their inaction, as well. Sometimes, making a big stink is the easiest way to freshen the air.

(05-18-2019 08:05 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 07:52 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 05:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  And one of the people that covered it up sits in Congress.

I wonder if Republican Jim Jordan would get arrested and sent to prison like the leaders at Penn. State got for covering up the crime and not notifying the law? I think he should be removed from office.

And now this dummy is out there saying this exonerates him! I guess thats the thing now, take a report that doesn't exonerate you, realize most of your voters aren't going to read it and just declare it says you're innocent, you didn't do anything wrong and that your schlong is 18 inches long!

Gym Jordan

As a physician, my viewpoint on the Ohio State doctor and the Michigan State doctor is different than most people. I accept that both doctors may have been sexually abusing their respective patients. Where i have a hard time with both of these cases is who, how or when you can determine that a licensed physician examining patients and/or providing treatment to their patients within their medical professions scope of practice is sexual assault or sexual abuse. In the case of the Michigan State doc it is well documented in medical literature by Janet Travell MD of Duke University and her book on Myofascial Pain Syndromes that intravaginal and intrarectal examination and treatment are used for pelvic floor Myofascial Pain Syndromes. I would expect that it is highly possible that female gymnasts performing splits and other gymnastics manuervers would be prone to repetitive stress injuries that may if not most likely include pelvic floor dysfunction. In the case of the Ohio State doc, it is well within the scope of a doc to examine a guys genitals for hernia or testicular injury etc. I am not aware that either of these docs made the patients do sexual acts or did sexual acts to them. I read that one of the michigan state docs patients said he got a hard on during an examination. Last time i checked getting aroused is not a crime. The Ohio State thing seems like it was mostly a joke at the time amonst the players joking about the guy grabbing their junk. I also read that the Ohio State guy watched them in the shower. Once again looking is not a crime. I am a gay man... I check out hot and not so hot guys all of the time in public or private venues. Most of them just give me a wink and a knowing smile when they see that im checking them out. My experience is that most straight guys are flattered that a gay guy is checking them out even they would never consider an encounter of any kind.

I guess my concern is that if the docs were doing something within the scope of their practice and there was no police intervention years back when it occurred, then why is it acceptable for these guys/girls to make accusations now that treatment within the scope of practice is somehow not acceptable now. Did time and social media suddenly make legitimate treatment illegitimate? Should i never examine or treat another patient now in fear that 30 years from now someone will say "He touched my shoulder". Where does this end. For the most part the patients at ohio state were adult men. If they did not object at the time of examination then by default they must have consented. I think the michigan state scenario is more complicated when you have the under age gymnasts, but in many or those cases the parents were in the room during treatment and by default consented examination and treatment.

Im sure most of you will not share my opinion and that is fine. It just concerns me when we are changing the rules of the game decades after it is said and done and over with.

(05-19-2019 05:46 PM)Sparty84 Wrote:  As a physician, my viewpoint on the Ohio State doctor and the Michigan State doctor is different than most people.

Nassar, the MSU doctor, pled guilty to multiple charges of criminal sexual conduct and possession of child pornography.

And your Sparty just paid $500 million to a Victim's Fund for the survivors of his abuse. That's about 10 year's worth of Big Ten conference revenue disbursements. I don't think they do that if they didn't have to.

I think you are off your rocker.

(05-19-2019 12:08 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 11:36 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  

(05-18-2019 08:03 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Oh for crying out loud! The schools run the NCAA, if they disbanded the NCAA and set up a new governing body the same damn folks who make up the rules now would be making up the rules then. The power schools have all the say now and would have all the say in any new organization. People need to stop thinking it's some independent organization holding these schools and athletes down. Everything the NCAA does is at the approval of the P5. EVERYTHING!

This.

+2

I think the NCAA was founded as a legal structure to divorce the economic income from the people generating it under an elaborate PR campaign known as the "student athlete". And while the NCAA's commercials might be true for a typical athlete competing in swimming and diving in Division 2, we all know they're utterly divorced from reality when it comes to the people paying for everything (men's hoops, and until recently football). Without that money there is no commercial and there is no Division 2 swimming and diving. There is absolutely truth in the P5 having a great deal of control over how the NCAA behaves. The NCAA accepted being neutered as an organization when the P5 took the football money away in exchange for survival. But that arrangement is a self-defeating one. You can't police people you have no authority over. That never works. But they don't have outright control. They are beholden to the lie of a business model the NCAA represents. If you start from scratch you're going to have to pay people above and beyond tuition. In football maybe even considerably so. That's such an expensive proposition you're severing yourself from 99% of the rest of the schools that have athletic programs. The world would become considerably more NAIA-ish, and maybe that's good and healthy in the long run. If you kill the NCAA, you probably uncork the genie. And if you play that out, there may not be enough "lesser" programs hanging around for you to buy paycheck wins from to pad your record to look more successful to keep your fans happy. If you turn just the top programs against just the top programs you're going to create new bottom programs and bleed them out and further thin out the ranks. Things could get ugly in that brave new world not just for the Kent States and Akrons ... but the Wake Forests and Vanderbilts and Northwesterns and Kansas States too.

Us fans have spent years sizing up where are programs fit in nationally but at the end of the day what matters is what is going to keep the alums happy and engaged.

The bluebloods figure you pencil them in with an automatic seat at the table. For everyone else happiness is tied to the level of basketball they are competing at.

The devastator isn't a P5 split but a FBS split where each conference must have 8 FBS playing members. BE I said may have to look at addition from the MAC. For those left behind there would hardly be anything left compared to a scenario where just the P5 walked or the 30 biggest FB programs formed their own pro like association.

Going back to what you are saying about the impact of killing the NCAA, so long as the mid majors still have perks like parents weekends and neutral site conference tournaments the average alum won't know anything happened. Turn their situation upside down negatively having to compete in a WAC like conference with 11am starts for flosports and you'll have a lot of unhappy campers.