(05-17-2019 08:00 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 07:21 AM)cubucks Wrote:  Rutgers checked all the boxes, period. The biggest difference between Rutgers and Uconn was Academics.

Academics? UConn's US News ranking is 63, Rutgers is 56. I doubt it was much different in 2012.

Probably referring to AAU status.

(05-17-2019 05:20 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 11:39 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 10:18 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Those who get paid to make these decisions and do this research all knew how much $ Rutgers was bringing to the table in cable subscribers. Thats why Delany and the B1G presidents pulled the trigger.

The maps don't matter. What you said in the quote above -- the cable box grab -- is why the Big Ten added Rutgers. The Big Ten had contracts with cable providers that gave them $ for every cable subscriber in any entire state that has at least one Big Ten team, and adding Rutgers was the ultimate exploitation of those cable contracts. Doesn't change the fact that Penn State and Notre Dame football have far more followers in both NYC and Philadelphia.

The map does matter, just because you don't understand how it works doesn't mean it doesn't matter. That higher carriage fee isn't just for the state of New Jersey, it's for the markets. So NYC and Philly both have to pay those higher BTN carriage fees now.

Also how is it a fact that Penn State and Notre Dame have larger followings in NYC? I'll give you PSU and Philly sure I don't even care enough to argue about that, but go ahead and show your work on how they have a bigger following in NYC. Rutgers alum dwarfs every other alumni group in NYC. Notre Dame? This isn't the 60's or even the 80's anymore. The working class Irish communities are all gone and even those folks don't root for the Fighting Irish anymore. You really have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to the tri-state area do you?

The Irish in Ireland still root for Notre Dame, does that count?

(05-17-2019 07:46 AM)McKinney Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 01:11 AM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 08:53 PM)McKinney Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 08:31 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  As far as New England that is perhaps less likely but I still maintain that a tight knit group of states like New England would pull for one of her own should they ever get good.

Hmmmm.... yeah well it depends on who you ask, but there are a solid base of New Englanders who wouldn't even consider the state of Connecticut to be part of New England. Or at least parts of their state. Yankees fans? Not New England. And I'm just barely joking here.

But also, why would New Englanders treat an out-of-state state school as "one of our own"?

Does not UConn give reduced... Nearly in state tuition for New Englanders?

Believe you're referring to the New England Regional Student Program?

Quote:To be eligible for this tuition reduction, the student must be enrolled in an approved degree program that is not available at a public institution in their home state. Qualified students pay 175% of UConn's in-state tuition cost.

UConn, UMaine, UMass, UNH, URI, and UVM all participate in offering NERSP. But because of the overlap in majors, it's a fairly limited program to my knowledge.

Maine, NH, VT all have trouble filling their classes with in-state kids. Simply put, there are not enough college ready students being produced to keep these schools at optimum capacity. Form personal experience, I know for a fact that they will all offer instate tuition breaks to MANY out of state students, just to get them on campus. A lot of the far northern SUNY campuses will do the same. This is what happens when you are in a cold and sparsely populated corner of the country.

(05-17-2019 06:29 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  UConn carries NYC better than Rutgers - but not well enough to make a realignment move on its own. Syracuse also carries NYC better than Rutgers.

Rutgers controls its own state pretty well - with a share divvied out to Seton Hall.

No they don't, you have no idea what you're talking about.

(05-17-2019 08:08 AM)McKinney Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 08:00 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 07:21 AM)cubucks Wrote:  Rutgers checked all the boxes, period. The biggest difference between Rutgers and Uconn was Academics.

Academics? UConn's US News ranking is 63, Rutgers is 56. I doubt it was much different in 2012.

Probably referring to AAU status.

It wasn't just the AAU status. It was the type of academic programs RU offered. They were more in-line with the other Big Ten schools. I would say the same for athletics. We sure sucked at sports, but we offered more of the sports programs that the Big Ten wanted - wrestling, mens' lacrosse, gymnastics - than UConn - m/w's hockey. My guess is that the research done for what would drive viewership of the BTN concluded that RU checked more boxes than UConn.

(05-17-2019 08:08 AM)McKinney Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 08:00 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 07:21 AM)cubucks Wrote:  Rutgers checked all the boxes, period. The biggest difference between Rutgers and Uconn was Academics.

Academics? UConn's US News ranking is 63, Rutgers is 56. I doubt it was much different in 2012.

Probably referring to AAU status.

Exactly! Good grief, didn't know I had to explain that. It's not like we haven't been talking about this for years now.

(05-16-2019 10:51 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Yet Rutgers still pukes all over themselves.

Maybe so, but now we are puking all over ourselves in the BIG, which is a whole lot better than doing it in the AAC. Think rich drunk vs broke wino.

Always good to hear from you Mark.

This article is a couple of years old but I doubt the #'s have changed much since then.

https://content.usatoday.com/communities...y-market/1

Quote:Rutgers has been involved in all five of the all-time top-rated football games in New York City on ESPN2 and been part of four of the five all-time highest-rated football games in the New York City area on ESPN.

(05-17-2019 08:21 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 06:29 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  UConn carries NYC better than Rutgers - but not well enough to make a realignment move on its own. Syracuse also carries NYC better than Rutgers.

Rutgers controls its own state pretty well - with a share divvied out to Seton Hall.

No they don't, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Seton Hall isn't what it once was. The glory days of PJ Carlesimo and the old BE are long gone. Most of the great rivalries they had are now in ACC. What is left of its fan base is concentrated in Essex/Union counties; where they still run a distant second to RU and there are as many Gtown and 'Nova fans as SH has. Even in good years, like this past one, SH can't fill the Prudential Center. Nowadays a sellout there is just the lower bowl, with great big black curtains used to obscure the upper level. There is no mention of SH on local TV or in the local press for months at a time.

(05-17-2019 08:41 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 08:21 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 06:29 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  UConn carries NYC better than Rutgers - but not well enough to make a realignment move on its own. Syracuse also carries NYC better than Rutgers.

Rutgers controls its own state pretty well - with a share divvied out to Seton Hall.

No they don't, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Seton Hall isn't what it once was. The glory days of PJ Carlesimo and the old BE are long gone. Most of the great rivalries they had are now in ACC. What is left of its fan base is concentrated in Essex/Union counties; where they still run a distant second to RU and there are as many Gtown and 'Nova fans as SH has. Even in good years, like this past one, SH can't fill the Prudential Center. Nowadays a sellout there is just the lower bowl, with great big black curtains used to obscure the upper level. There is no mention of SH on local TV or in the local press for months at a time.

Well to be fair none of the 3 NYC metro power conference BBall teams get mentioned in the local media. Even when any of the three teams are having good to decent seasons they all rather talk about the dreadful knicks.

(05-16-2019 08:21 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Rutgers vs. Connecticut had nothing to do with whether people in NYC watch either of those teams on TV.

The most important factor was the Big Ten grabbing cable boxes for BTN revenue, and having contracts that allowed them to, so to speak, tax every cable box in the entire state of New Jersey, and New Jersey has 2.5x more cable boxes than Connecticut. The second most important factor, IMO, was increasing Big Ten visibility to New Jersey students who might then help fill out those huge student bodies at "original" Big Ten universities.

This has actually gone the other way around. NJ kids have always gone to original BIG schools in large numbers. Once RU joined the BIG, it saw a dramatic increase in applications coming from top students in Big Ten states. RU still doesn't use the Common or Universal App, so that means those kids were motivated enough to complete the RU specific application. This has translated into an annual windfall of $500k-$1m and increasing each year, coming into the admissions dept.

(05-17-2019 08:43 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 08:41 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 08:21 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 06:29 AM)oliveandblue Wrote:  UConn carries NYC better than Rutgers - but not well enough to make a realignment move on its own. Syracuse also carries NYC better than Rutgers.

Rutgers controls its own state pretty well - with a share divvied out to Seton Hall.

No they don't, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Seton Hall isn't what it once was. The glory days of PJ Carlesimo and the old BE are long gone. Most of the great rivalries they had are now in ACC. What is left of its fan base is concentrated in Essex/Union counties; where they still run a distant second to RU and there are as many Gtown and 'Nova fans as SH has. Even in good years, like this past one, SH can't fill the Prudential Center. Nowadays a sellout there is just the lower bowl, with great big black curtains used to obscure the upper level. There is no mention of SH on local TV or in the local press for months at a time.

Well to be fair none of the 3 NYC metro power conference BBall teams get mentioned in the local media. Even when any of the three teams are having good to decent seasons they all rather talk about the dreadful knicks.

True, but NJ News 12, the APP, NS-L, NJ.com and both Records (Bergen and Morris) barely give them a mention any more. In fact, NJ.com no longer has a SH specific section under sports (did away with it during basketball season).

Silly boys. Everybody knows the true NYC teams are the CCNY Beavers, NYU Violets, and Clair Bee's LIU Blackbirds, er um, LIU Sharks.

David State, when can we anticipate CCNY and NYU's offers to move into their rightful home, the MAAC?

(05-17-2019 08:27 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 10:51 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Yet Rutgers still pukes all over themselves.

Maybe so, but now we are puking all over ourselves in the BIG, which is a whole lot better than doing it in the AAC. Think rich drunk vs broke wino.

Always good to hear from you Mark.

That's brilliant.

I still believe that Rutgers was the right way to go.

As a B1G fan, when they decided to expand East and Rutgers was mentioned, I thought "yeah, I can see that". Never even considered UConn. No offense to the UConn folks.

Now it's incumbent on Rutgers to spend some of that B1G money to improve it's athletics. Their men's basketball seems to be on the uptick, now it's time to do the same with football.

(05-17-2019 09:32 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 08:27 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 10:51 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Yet Rutgers still pukes all over themselves.

Maybe so, but now we are puking all over ourselves in the BIG, which is a whole lot better than doing it in the AAC. Think rich drunk vs broke wino.

Always good to hear from you Mark.

That's brilliant.

I still believe that Rutgers was the right way to go.

As a B1G fan, when they decided to expand East and Rutgers was mentioned, I thought "yeah, I can see that". Never even considered UConn. No offense to the UConn folks.

Now it's incumbent on Rutgers to spend some of that B1G money to improve it's athletics. Their men's basketball seems to be on the uptick, now it's time to do the same with football.

It's coming. The baseball/softball practice bubble opened last year. The new multi-sport practice and training facility is about to open adjacent to the RAC. That will house wrestling, gymnastics and M/Ws basketball. We just broke ground on the athletes academic support building, which will house all academic support for the athletes and facilities for the M/Ws lacrosse and soccer. Once that is complete, the Hale will get renovated into a football only facility. Hobbs has been steadily replacing under-preforming coaches in the Olympic sports. The new coaches all have their teams on the rise. The football is a whole other matter. I haven't seen a **** hire like this since Terry Shea. The problem is nobody wants to divert $8+m from building facilities to pay out Ash & Co to go away.

(05-17-2019 09:57 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 09:32 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 08:27 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 10:51 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Yet Rutgers still pukes all over themselves.

Maybe so, but now we are puking all over ourselves in the BIG, which is a whole lot better than doing it in the AAC. Think rich drunk vs broke wino.

Always good to hear from you Mark.

That's brilliant.

I still believe that Rutgers was the right way to go.

As a B1G fan, when they decided to expand East and Rutgers was mentioned, I thought "yeah, I can see that". Never even considered UConn. No offense to the UConn folks.

Now it's incumbent on Rutgers to spend some of that B1G money to improve it's athletics. Their men's basketball seems to be on the uptick, now it's time to do the same with football.

It's coming. The baseball/softball practice bubble opened last year. The new multi-sport practice and training facility is about to open adjacent to the RAC. That will house wrestling, gymnastics and M/Ws basketball. We just broke ground on the athletes academic support building, which will house all academic support for the athletes and facilities for the M/Ws lacrosse and soccer. Once that is complete, the Hale will get renovated into a football only facility. Hobbs has been steadily replacing under-preforming coaches in the Olympic sports. The new coaches all have their teams on the rise. The football is a whole other matter. I haven't seen a **** hire like this since Terry Shea. The problem is nobody wants to divert $8+m from building facilities to pay out Ash & Co to go away.

Good to hear. Rutgers being uber competitive will not only make for a better B1G, but the better they are, the more interest they'll draw from that "YUGE" market.

I think this will be the tell tale year for Ash. If they're bad again, I think you almost have to bite the bullet and buy him out. The key will be hiring a coach who can recruit and bring some excitement to the program. Who that is? No idea, but he probably won't come cheap.

This isn’t the 70’s or 80’s anymore. Whatever t-shirt Penn State fans existed up in NYC metro aren’t what they used to be. That was part of the problem PSU fans and alums who weren’t for the Big Ten had with that membership. Because ALL of those regional games, with Syracuse, BC, Pitt, Army, Navy, Notre Dame, Maryland, WV, Rutgers, and even Miami (because that school had the northeast around its finger)...if you aren’t seeing them around your neighborhood anymore, why invest interest? And then cable, carriage, and other network arrangements challenged their grip on the local dial.

The old culture and dynamics up in these parts died. I don’t know why we think any university can somehow now claim a market if they don’t already. If it happens, ever, it takes decades. And I don’t mean the kind that span from part of one into the next. IMO, UConn and UMass will never own NE because pro sports, BC, Big East hoops, and maybe even Syracuse are too present in primary cable choices. And it hurts both schools when their better parts (hoops) sit in conferences that don’t exactly swell in numbers with other quality regional programs. Yeah, it’s cool to have UConn and Wichita in the same place...you can’t force casual fans to care about that.

Regardless of all the minutia brought up in this thread about markets, I think the original post is true ...

Trend lines for Rutgers and UConn have swapped.

If these were stocks, the smart money would go long on Rutgers, and would sell UConn short. When Gino hangs it up, Husky stock will plummet.

(05-17-2019 09:32 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 08:27 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 10:51 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Yet Rutgers still pukes all over themselves.

Maybe so, but now we are puking all over ourselves in the BIG, which is a whole lot better than doing it in the AAC. Think rich drunk vs broke wino.

Always good to hear from you Mark.

That's brilliant.

I still believe that Rutgers was the right way to go.

As a B1G fan, when they decided to expand East and Rutgers was mentioned, I thought "yeah, I can see that". Never even considered UConn. No offense to the UConn folks.

Now it's incumbent on Rutgers to spend some of that B1G money to improve it's athletics. Their men's basketball seems to be on the uptick, now it's time to do the same with football.

The issue to is that we have yet to get a full share from the conference. So until we do we'll always be behind everyone else. Maryland worked out a deal to get their full share sooner since they were in such financial dire straights.

(05-17-2019 12:03 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  Regardless of all the minutia brought up in this thread about markets, I think the original post is true ...

Trend lines for Rutgers and UConn have swapped.

If these were stocks, the smart money would go long on Rutgers, and would sell UConn short. When Gino hangs it up, Husky stock will plummet.

The point you missed was that they haven't swapped. Rutgers always was more valuable even when they stunk at sports and UConn had it's best era of sports ever. Thats why the B1G took Rutgers over UConn and many other candidates.