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OT: Next Michigan Head Coach
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jumpinmullet Offline
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Post: #41
RE: OT: Next Michigan Head Coach
(05-23-2019 03:15 PM)Gary Miller Wrote:  
(05-23-2019 02:25 PM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(05-23-2019 12:32 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(05-23-2019 09:47 AM)Seahawk2010 Wrote:  
(05-23-2019 05:29 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  Lol. Ummmmm. We know. Not sure how old you were back then, but Howard was also cleared of any wrong doing related to all of that. When you look at all the recent college basketball scandals, that one doesn’t seem all that egregious anyways.


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Never said he was actually implicated in the scandal. Just pointing out where Mullet was probably coming from. Never said it was right or wrong.

Gotcha. I think Michigan has a lot to be excited about with that hire. Seems as good a get as any would've been considering the talented coach they just lost to the NBA.

My deal is with all the qualified coaches out there looking for a job why would you even consider going back to the blackeye era of the Fab Five and all that crap. Move on with it already and hire a college coach. Maybe he works out but I doubt it. I also didn't see them considering this guy so I have been wrong from the start.

The Fab Five era is NOT a black eye... That's what you're missing here. People don't think of the Fab Five and say "I wish that didn't happen" lol, they just talk about how cool they were, and how they changed the culture of college basketball. Made an impact on the game that is still seen today.
That might be how you see and I get it that people think they were cool and had swag. They were also getting paid,never won a title on any level and had the NCAA wins vacated. That sounds like something every program should aspire to at the college level. The culture thing is just baffling,what the hell could you possibly mean by that?
I have nothing against Howard but I also remember the entire deal was a giant mess .
05-24-2019 10:45 AM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: OT: Next Michigan Head Coach
(05-24-2019 10:45 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  That might be how you see and I get it that people think they were cool and had swag. They were also getting paid,never won a title on any level and had the NCAA wins vacated. That sounds like something every program should aspire to at the college level. The culture thing is just baffling,what the hell could you possibly mean by that?
I have nothing against Howard but I also remember the entire deal was a giant mess .

Recruits don't give a sh*t about the "black eye" stuff. The Fab Five transcended college basketball, and that resonates with both the kids and parents alike for any room Howard or his assistants walk into. Like it or not, they were...and still are...rock stars.

The Fab Five, more than anyone else, started convincing people that college players SHOULD be compensated for the revenue they generate for their respective programs and the NCAA. In that sense they were ahead of the curve, and the conversations that are occurring right now about how unfair the system is to the players are in part thanks to them.

You can choose to remember the downside of that era but no one really cares about that. Jimmy Valvano had plenty of recruiting scandals too but all people remember about him are when he ran on the court looking for a hug and his tremendous speech.
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2019 11:00 AM by Seahawk Nation 08.)
05-24-2019 10:57 AM
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jumpinmullet Offline
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Post: #43
RE: OT: Next Michigan Head Coach
(05-24-2019 10:57 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 10:45 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  That might be how you see and I get it that people think they were cool and had swag. They were also getting paid,never won a title on any level and had the NCAA wins vacated. That sounds like something every program should aspire to at the college level. The culture thing is just baffling,what the hell could you possibly mean by that?
I have nothing against Howard but I also remember the entire deal was a giant mess .

Recruits don't give a sh*t about the "black eye" stuff. The Fab Five transcended college basketball, and that resonates with both the kids and parents alike for any room Howard or his assistants walk into. Like it or not, they were...and still are...rock stars.

The Fab Five, more than anyone else, started convincing people that college players SHOULD be compensated for the revenue they generate for their respective programs and the NCAA. In that sense they were ahead of the curve, and the conversations that are occurring right now about how unfair the system is to the players are in part thanks to them.

You can choose to remember the downside of that era but no one really cares about that. Jimmy Valvano had plenty of recruiting scandals too but all people remember about him are when he ran on the court looking for a hug and his tremendous speech.
Valvano was also a guy I would never hire in a million years to run a program or anything else for that matter. At some point rules have to matter to the real world.
Michigan players were paid with money from a convicted felon that ran a illegal gambling ring. They were investigated by not only the NCAA but numerous government agencies and found guilty of a ton of crap. You can snub your nose at whoever you want if you are willing to go to jail for it and they did. Go for the swag and go to jail is how I see it. Howard was not involved from what I remember but it was a huge problem for Michigan for many years.
05-24-2019 11:09 AM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #44
RE: OT: Next Michigan Head Coach
(05-24-2019 11:09 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 10:57 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 10:45 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  That might be how you see and I get it that people think they were cool and had swag. They were also getting paid,never won a title on any level and had the NCAA wins vacated. That sounds like something every program should aspire to at the college level. The culture thing is just baffling,what the hell could you possibly mean by that?
I have nothing against Howard but I also remember the entire deal was a giant mess .

Recruits don't give a sh*t about the "black eye" stuff. The Fab Five transcended college basketball, and that resonates with both the kids and parents alike for any room Howard or his assistants walk into. Like it or not, they were...and still are...rock stars.

The Fab Five, more than anyone else, started convincing people that college players SHOULD be compensated for the revenue they generate for their respective programs and the NCAA. In that sense they were ahead of the curve, and the conversations that are occurring right now about how unfair the system is to the players are in part thanks to them.

You can choose to remember the downside of that era but no one really cares about that. Jimmy Valvano had plenty of recruiting scandals too but all people remember about him are when he ran on the court looking for a hug and his tremendous speech.
Valvano was also a guy I would never hire in a million years to run a program or anything else for that matter. At some point rules have to matter to the real world.
Michigan players were paid with money from a convicted felon that ran a illegal gambling ring. They were investigated by not only the NCAA but numerous government agencies and found guilty of a ton of crap. You can snub your nose at whoever you want if you are willing to go to jail for it and they did. Go for the swag and go to jail is how I see it. Howard was not involved from what I remember but it was a huge problem for Michigan for many years.
UNC players are paid, ANd don't have to go to class. So what's your point?
05-24-2019 11:26 AM
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jumpinmullet Offline
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Post: #45
RE: OT: Next Michigan Head Coach
(05-24-2019 11:26 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 11:09 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 10:57 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 10:45 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  That might be how you see and I get it that people think they were cool and had swag. They were also getting paid,never won a title on any level and had the NCAA wins vacated. That sounds like something every program should aspire to at the college level. The culture thing is just baffling,what the hell could you possibly mean by that?
I have nothing against Howard but I also remember the entire deal was a giant mess .

Recruits don't give a sh*t about the "black eye" stuff. The Fab Five transcended college basketball, and that resonates with both the kids and parents alike for any room Howard or his assistants walk into. Like it or not, they were...and still are...rock stars.

The Fab Five, more than anyone else, started convincing people that college players SHOULD be compensated for the revenue they generate for their respective programs and the NCAA. In that sense they were ahead of the curve, and the conversations that are occurring right now about how unfair the system is to the players are in part thanks to them.

You can choose to remember the downside of that era but no one really cares about that. Jimmy Valvano had plenty of recruiting scandals too but all people remember about him are when he ran on the court looking for a hug and his tremendous speech.
Valvano was also a guy I would never hire in a million years to run a program or anything else for that matter. At some point rules have to matter to the real world.
Michigan players were paid with money from a convicted felon that ran a illegal gambling ring. They were investigated by not only the NCAA but numerous government agencies and found guilty of a ton of crap. You can snub your nose at whoever you want if you are willing to go to jail for it and they did. Go for the swag and go to jail is how I see it. Howard was not involved from what I remember but it was a huge problem for Michigan for many years.
UNC players are paid, ANd don't have to go to class. So what's your point?
The point is that we have rules in society and sports for a reason and if you guys don't care about following the rules that is your deal.
I am not a UNC fan but I hear you ***** about them all the time. Until you have some real facts about something like players getting paid why bother? Just can't understand why guys would ever defend something like the culture during the fab five. It was the poster child for how not to do something and no way to even attempt to defend the BS they were doing there.
05-24-2019 11:40 AM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: OT: Next Michigan Head Coach
(05-24-2019 11:40 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 11:26 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 11:09 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 10:57 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 10:45 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  That might be how you see and I get it that people think they were cool and had swag. They were also getting paid,never won a title on any level and had the NCAA wins vacated. That sounds like something every program should aspire to at the college level. The culture thing is just baffling,what the hell could you possibly mean by that?
I have nothing against Howard but I also remember the entire deal was a giant mess .

Recruits don't give a sh*t about the "black eye" stuff. The Fab Five transcended college basketball, and that resonates with both the kids and parents alike for any room Howard or his assistants walk into. Like it or not, they were...and still are...rock stars.

The Fab Five, more than anyone else, started convincing people that college players SHOULD be compensated for the revenue they generate for their respective programs and the NCAA. In that sense they were ahead of the curve, and the conversations that are occurring right now about how unfair the system is to the players are in part thanks to them.

You can choose to remember the downside of that era but no one really cares about that. Jimmy Valvano had plenty of recruiting scandals too but all people remember about him are when he ran on the court looking for a hug and his tremendous speech.
Valvano was also a guy I would never hire in a million years to run a program or anything else for that matter. At some point rules have to matter to the real world.
Michigan players were paid with money from a convicted felon that ran a illegal gambling ring. They were investigated by not only the NCAA but numerous government agencies and found guilty of a ton of crap. You can snub your nose at whoever you want if you are willing to go to jail for it and they did. Go for the swag and go to jail is how I see it. Howard was not involved from what I remember but it was a huge problem for Michigan for many years.
UNC players are paid, ANd don't have to go to class. So what's your point?
The point is that we have rules in society and sports for a reason and if you guys don't care about following the rules that is your deal.
I am not a UNC fan but I hear you ***** about them all the time. Until you have some real facts about something like players getting paid why bother? Just can't understand why guys would ever defend something like the culture during the fab five. It was the poster child for how not to do something and no way to even attempt to defend the BS they were doing there.

No one is saying that rules aren't important. We're saying that Michigan hiring Juwan Howard, who you yourself said had nothing to do with that crap, was a good move because he represented the best of what the Fab Five represented, not the shady aspects.
05-24-2019 01:44 PM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #47
RE: OT: Next Michigan Head Coach
(05-24-2019 11:40 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 11:26 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 11:09 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 10:57 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 10:45 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  That might be how you see and I get it that people think they were cool and had swag. They were also getting paid,never won a title on any level and had the NCAA wins vacated. That sounds like something every program should aspire to at the college level. The culture thing is just baffling,what the hell could you possibly mean by that?
I have nothing against Howard but I also remember the entire deal was a giant mess .

Recruits don't give a sh*t about the "black eye" stuff. The Fab Five transcended college basketball, and that resonates with both the kids and parents alike for any room Howard or his assistants walk into. Like it or not, they were...and still are...rock stars.

The Fab Five, more than anyone else, started convincing people that college players SHOULD be compensated for the revenue they generate for their respective programs and the NCAA. In that sense they were ahead of the curve, and the conversations that are occurring right now about how unfair the system is to the players are in part thanks to them.

You can choose to remember the downside of that era but no one really cares about that. Jimmy Valvano had plenty of recruiting scandals too but all people remember about him are when he ran on the court looking for a hug and his tremendous speech.
Valvano was also a guy I would never hire in a million years to run a program or anything else for that matter. At some point rules have to matter to the real world.
Michigan players were paid with money from a convicted felon that ran a illegal gambling ring. They were investigated by not only the NCAA but numerous government agencies and found guilty of a ton of crap. You can snub your nose at whoever you want if you are willing to go to jail for it and they did. Go for the swag and go to jail is how I see it. Howard was not involved from what I remember but it was a huge problem for Michigan for many years.
UNC players are paid, ANd don't have to go to class. So what's your point?
The point is that we have rules in society and sports for a reason and if you guys don't care about following the rules that is your deal.
I am not a UNC fan but I hear you ***** about them all the time. Until you have some real facts about something like players getting paid why bother? Just can't understand why guys would ever defend something like the culture during the fab five. It was the poster child for how not to do something and no way to even attempt to defend the BS they were doing there.
1000's of thousands of pages and guys from the hood driving around in brand new cars ism't enough proof? NCAA let them off because they are their cash cow, that's it.
05-24-2019 03:53 PM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #48
RE: OT: Next Michigan Head Coach
(05-24-2019 01:44 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 11:40 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 11:26 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 11:09 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 10:57 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  Recruits don't give a sh*t about the "black eye" stuff. The Fab Five transcended college basketball, and that resonates with both the kids and parents alike for any room Howard or his assistants walk into. Like it or not, they were...and still are...rock stars.

The Fab Five, more than anyone else, started convincing people that college players SHOULD be compensated for the revenue they generate for their respective programs and the NCAA. In that sense they were ahead of the curve, and the conversations that are occurring right now about how unfair the system is to the players are in part thanks to them.

You can choose to remember the downside of that era but no one really cares about that. Jimmy Valvano had plenty of recruiting scandals too but all people remember about him are when he ran on the court looking for a hug and his tremendous speech.
Valvano was also a guy I would never hire in a million years to run a program or anything else for that matter. At some point rules have to matter to the real world.
Michigan players were paid with money from a convicted felon that ran a illegal gambling ring. They were investigated by not only the NCAA but numerous government agencies and found guilty of a ton of crap. You can snub your nose at whoever you want if you are willing to go to jail for it and they did. Go for the swag and go to jail is how I see it. Howard was not involved from what I remember but it was a huge problem for Michigan for many years.
UNC players are paid, ANd don't have to go to class. So what's your point?
The point is that we have rules in society and sports for a reason and if you guys don't care about following the rules that is your deal.
I am not a UNC fan but I hear you ***** about them all the time. Until you have some real facts about something like players getting paid why bother? Just can't understand why guys would ever defend something like the culture during the fab five. It was the poster child for how not to do something and no way to even attempt to defend the BS they were doing there.

No one is saying that rules aren't important. We're saying that Michigan hiring Juwan Howard, who you yourself said had nothing to do with that crap, was a good move because he represented the best of what the Fab Five represented, not the shady aspects.
I'm with you guys here, don't really see this is a bad hire at all
05-24-2019 03:55 PM
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Seahawk2010 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: OT: Next Michigan Head Coach
(05-24-2019 11:09 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 10:57 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 10:45 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  That might be how you see and I get it that people think they were cool and had swag. They were also getting paid,never won a title on any level and had the NCAA wins vacated. That sounds like something every program should aspire to at the college level. The culture thing is just baffling,what the hell could you possibly mean by that?
I have nothing against Howard but I also remember the entire deal was a giant mess .

Recruits don't give a sh*t about the "black eye" stuff. The Fab Five transcended college basketball, and that resonates with both the kids and parents alike for any room Howard or his assistants walk into. Like it or not, they were...and still are...rock stars.

The Fab Five, more than anyone else, started convincing people that college players SHOULD be compensated for the revenue they generate for their respective programs and the NCAA. In that sense they were ahead of the curve, and the conversations that are occurring right now about how unfair the system is to the players are in part thanks to them.

You can choose to remember the downside of that era but no one really cares about that. Jimmy Valvano had plenty of recruiting scandals too but all people remember about him are when he ran on the court looking for a hug and his tremendous speech.
Valvano was also a guy I would never hire in a million years to run a program or anything else for that matter. At some point rules have to matter to the real world.
Michigan players were paid with money from a convicted felon that ran a illegal gambling ring. They were investigated by not only the NCAA but numerous government agencies and found guilty of a ton of crap. You can snub your nose at whoever you want if you are willing to go to jail for it and they did. Go for the swag and go to jail is how I see it. Howard was not involved from what I remember but it was a huge problem for Michigan for many years.

Not to derail the thread, but Valvano’s legacy is about his fight with cancer and the subsequent foundation of the V Foundation for Cancer Research. The only coaching mention is him looking for a hug. That’s it. People are more glorified and revered in death, especially tragically. He was fired (resigned) by NC State.

Now off on a tangent, it’s interesting how Dickie V goes off on his love for Valavno and then bashes current coaches who have less baggage. It makes me wonder if Valvano never passed away from cancer how his image would be perceived today.

I don’t intend to offend anyone, as this can be a touchy subject.
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2019 07:10 PM by Seahawk2010.)
05-24-2019 06:57 PM
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CG_Hawk06 Offline
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Post: #50
OT: Next Michigan Head Coach
(05-24-2019 06:57 PM)Seahawk2010 Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 11:09 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 10:57 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 10:45 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  That might be how you see and I get it that people think they were cool and had swag. They were also getting paid,never won a title on any level and had the NCAA wins vacated. That sounds like something every program should aspire to at the college level. The culture thing is just baffling,what the hell could you possibly mean by that?
I have nothing against Howard but I also remember the entire deal was a giant mess .

Recruits don't give a sh*t about the "black eye" stuff. The Fab Five transcended college basketball, and that resonates with both the kids and parents alike for any room Howard or his assistants walk into. Like it or not, they were...and still are...rock stars.

The Fab Five, more than anyone else, started convincing people that college players SHOULD be compensated for the revenue they generate for their respective programs and the NCAA. In that sense they were ahead of the curve, and the conversations that are occurring right now about how unfair the system is to the players are in part thanks to them.

You can choose to remember the downside of that era but no one really cares about that. Jimmy Valvano had plenty of recruiting scandals too but all people remember about him are when he ran on the court looking for a hug and his tremendous speech.
Valvano was also a guy I would never hire in a million years to run a program or anything else for that matter. At some point rules have to matter to the real world.
Michigan players were paid with money from a convicted felon that ran a illegal gambling ring. They were investigated by not only the NCAA but numerous government agencies and found guilty of a ton of crap. You can snub your nose at whoever you want if you are willing to go to jail for it and they did. Go for the swag and go to jail is how I see it. Howard was not involved from what I remember but it was a huge problem for Michigan for many years.

Not to derail the thread, but Valvano’s legacy is about his fight with cancer and the subsequent foundation of the V Foundation for Cancer Research. The only coaching mention is his looking for a hug. That’s it. People are more glorified in death. He was fired by NC State.

Now off on a tangent, it’s interesting how Dickie V goes off on his love for Valavno and then bashes current coaches who have less baggage. It makes me wonder if Valvano never passed away from cancer how his image would be perceived today.

I don’t intend to offend anyone, as this can be a touchy subject.

Completely agree. Sometimes observing detrimental circumstances allows our human nature to bypass faults as a way to build common bonds for greater good.


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05-24-2019 07:00 PM
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Seahawk2010 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: OT: Next Michigan Head Coach
(05-24-2019 07:00 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 06:57 PM)Seahawk2010 Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 11:09 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 10:57 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  
(05-24-2019 10:45 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  That might be how you see and I get it that people think they were cool and had swag. They were also getting paid,never won a title on any level and had the NCAA wins vacated. That sounds like something every program should aspire to at the college level. The culture thing is just baffling,what the hell could you possibly mean by that?
I have nothing against Howard but I also remember the entire deal was a giant mess .

Recruits don't give a sh*t about the "black eye" stuff. The Fab Five transcended college basketball, and that resonates with both the kids and parents alike for any room Howard or his assistants walk into. Like it or not, they were...and still are...rock stars.

The Fab Five, more than anyone else, started convincing people that college players SHOULD be compensated for the revenue they generate for their respective programs and the NCAA. In that sense they were ahead of the curve, and the conversations that are occurring right now about how unfair the system is to the players are in part thanks to them.

You can choose to remember the downside of that era but no one really cares about that. Jimmy Valvano had plenty of recruiting scandals too but all people remember about him are when he ran on the court looking for a hug and his tremendous speech.
Valvano was also a guy I would never hire in a million years to run a program or anything else for that matter. At some point rules have to matter to the real world.
Michigan players were paid with money from a convicted felon that ran a illegal gambling ring. They were investigated by not only the NCAA but numerous government agencies and found guilty of a ton of crap. You can snub your nose at whoever you want if you are willing to go to jail for it and they did. Go for the swag and go to jail is how I see it. Howard was not involved from what I remember but it was a huge problem for Michigan for many years.

Not to derail the thread, but Valvano’s legacy is about his fight with cancer and the subsequent foundation of the V Foundation for Cancer Research. The only coaching mention is his looking for a hug. That’s it. People are more glorified in death. He was fired by NC State.

Now off on a tangent, it’s interesting how Dickie V goes off on his love for Valavno and then bashes current coaches who have less baggage. It makes me wonder if Valvano never passed away from cancer how his image would be perceived today.

I don’t intend to offend anyone, as this can be a touchy subject.

Completely agree. Sometimes observing detrimental circumstances allows our human nature to bypass faults as a way to build common bonds for greater good.


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Glad this didn’t come across as crass or offensive. Valvano’s speech brings everyone to tears every time it airs. It’s because we all know friends and family that have fought cancer. Its a touchy conversation.

Moving on! I hope Howard hires some veteran college assistants. History is not on his side regarding former NBA players coaching in college. Two were just fired this year.
05-24-2019 07:24 PM
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CG_Hawk06 Offline
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Post: #52
OT: Next Michigan Head Coach
Nope I knew what you meant and I recently lost my father in law, whom I loved dearly, to cancer. It sucks.


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05-24-2019 07:51 PM
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dan10 Offline
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RE: OT: Next Michigan Head Coach
Sports are big and ave a big influence. Subjects that personally affect us all will still trump the former. Its human nature. Valvano would not have been looked at as the person he was if cancer had not taken his life or he dedicated anything in towards finding a cure. Human life and struggles will always trump the impact of sports. It is that simple.

I agree getting in tune with the Fab Five era is smart. Following Beilein is a challenge, going this direction is a safe play and will buy him some extra leash. Even if he fails his legacy won't be broken at Michigan. If he continues winning, they are happy. If he loses, they are happy they tried to maintain winning. Smart on all levels.
05-28-2019 10:29 AM
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