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What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
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Captain Bearcat Online
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RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
(05-10-2019 11:27 AM)johnintx Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 10:40 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 02:58 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Impossible to even consider. Ohio and Michigan have been joined at the hip since the drunken battle for Toledo. We (Ohioans) gave Michiganders their nickname in that ferocious firefight across the river, saying they were like wild animals, no better than wolverines. It stuck. Of course we are named after an inedible fruit -- but great substitutes for dirt clods to throw at each other, and excellent for really crappy 4th grade art class jewelry we made.

Note: a combination of poor weaponry, a swollen river too wide to shoot accurately across across, combined with copious lubrication of the combatants with locally distilled spirits conspired to prevent any casualties.

I just can't see Ohioans being happy orienting east. I certainly wouldn't be. I'd rather align with Kansas City and Dallas than New York and Philadelphia. Maybe it's generations conditioned by B1G participation -- but I doubt it, it runs deeper.

Northeastern Ohioans (Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown, Ashtabula) have no problem orienting East. Cleveland thinks of itself as the bridge between NYC and Chicago, and they see themselves as a smaller version of New York (in fact when I was in college in Cleveland, Hollywood movies that were supposed to take place in New York were sometimes filmed in Cleveland).

SW Ohioans don't care about Michigan. It was settled by Appalachians and Germans. Michigan is just as far away as Missouri or Tennessee to us. Our twin cities are Louisville and St. Louis and Munich (river cities that were also settled by mountain men and Germans).

SE Ohioans don't care about Michigan either. They're Appalachians.

Ohio is a lot bigger than just Columbus and Toledo.

In this case, the Ohio State song/cheer "I don't give a damn about the whole state of Michigan...'cause I'm from Ohio" is true. 02-13-banana

The difference is that if you're singing about them, you really do care 05-stirthepot 04-cheers
05-10-2019 02:33 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #22
RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
Lots of interesting thoughts here. I'm going to try to hit on several points:

1. Notre Dame absolutely joins this league c. 1912. In the beginning, football independence was something imposed on ND, not sought after. If a bunch of state schools ran by Protestants invites them to be their peers they jump all over it.

2. Going South. I don't see schools like UVA getting into this league due to segregation. Most of these schools are going to demand integrated teams or at least being able to bring their black athletes to away games. That's probably a no go in 1953. I also share skepticism about WVU getting invited due to academics.

3. Michigan and Ohio St were not joined to the hip in mutual hatred in 1912. At that point in the series it was a one sided affair and U of M thought very little of the Buckeyes. With that said, after Feilding Yost (anti-ND) left the program and it became clear that this conference was stronger than the Big Ten I think there's a possibility Blue switches leagues.

4. Looking at deeper emplications, if this conference came to be I think some of the schools that broke away from the MVC to form the Big 8 end up being Big Ten schools but I don't see Oklahoma among them and I think the Sooners and Aggies end up back in the SWC.

5. One other thing to think about, depending on this league's size in the 50s is some association with the PCC schools who wanted to found the Airplane Conference hooking up with this group.
05-10-2019 02:38 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #23
RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
(05-10-2019 12:20 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Who won the battle of Toledo?
Mich

Well if you look at a map, it's labeled Toledo, OH not Toledo, MI so I'd say Ohio won that little dispute. Michigan did walk away with a nice conciliation prize in the form of the UP though.
05-10-2019 02:44 PM
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Post: #24
RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
(05-10-2019 12:35 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 10:40 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 02:58 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Impossible to even consider. Ohio and Michigan have been joined at the hip since the drunken battle for Toledo. We (Ohioans) gave Michiganders their nickname in that ferocious firefight across the river, saying they were like wild animals, no better than wolverines. It stuck. Of course we are named after an inedible fruit -- but great substitutes for dirt clods to throw at each other, and excellent for really crappy 4th grade art class jewelry we made.

Note: a combination of poor weaponry, a swollen river too wide to shoot accurately across across, combined with copious lubrication of the combatants with locally distilled spirits conspired to prevent any casualties.

I just can't see Ohioans being happy orienting east. I certainly wouldn't be. I'd rather align with Kansas City and Dallas than New York and Philadelphia. Maybe it's generations conditioned by B1G participation -- but I doubt it, it runs deeper.

Northeastern Ohioans (Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown, Ashtabula) have no problem orienting East. Cleveland thinks of itself as the bridge between NYC and Chicago, and they see themselves as a smaller version of New York (in fact when I was in college in Cleveland, Hollywood movies that were supposed to take place in New York were sometimes filmed in Cleveland).

SW Ohioans don't care about Michigan. It was settled by Appalachians and Germans. Michigan is just as far away as Missouri or Tennessee to us. Our twin cities are Louisville and St. Louis and Munich (river cities that were also settled by mountain men and Germans).

SE Ohioans don't care about Michigan either. They're Appalachians.

Ohio is a lot bigger than just Columbus and Toledo.
Wrong! Southeastern Ohio does care.

Meh... Depends on where you are. I have family all over Southeastern Ohio. Athens is still relatively close to Central Ohio so they have their share of Buckeye fans. Go further south or east to places like Gallipolis, Marietta, Portsmouth, etc. and you'll run across a lot of WVU fans.
(This post was last modified: 05-10-2019 02:54 PM by CliftonAve.)
05-10-2019 02:54 PM
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Post: #25
RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
(05-10-2019 01:46 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 12:35 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 10:40 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 02:58 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Impossible to even consider. Ohio and Michigan have been joined at the hip since the drunken battle for Toledo. We (Ohioans) gave Michiganders their nickname in that ferocious firefight across the river, saying they were like wild animals, no better than wolverines. It stuck. Of course we are named after an inedible fruit -- but great substitutes for dirt clods to throw at each other, and excellent for really crappy 4th grade art class jewelry we made.

Note: a combination of poor weaponry, a swollen river too wide to shoot accurately across across, combined with copious lubrication of the combatants with locally distilled spirits conspired to prevent any casualties.

I just can't see Ohioans being happy orienting east. I certainly wouldn't be. I'd rather align with Kansas City and Dallas than New York and Philadelphia. Maybe it's generations conditioned by B1G participation -- but I doubt it, it runs deeper.

Northeastern Ohioans (Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown, Ashtabula) have no problem orienting East. Cleveland thinks of itself as the bridge between NYC and Chicago, and they see themselves as a smaller version of New York (in fact when I was in college in Cleveland, Hollywood movies that were supposed to take place in New York were sometimes filmed in Cleveland).

SW Ohioans don't care about Michigan. It was settled by Appalachians and Germans. Michigan is just as far away as Missouri or Tennessee to us. Our twin cities are Louisville and St. Louis and Munich (river cities that were also settled by mountain men and Germans).

SE Ohioans don't care about Michigan either. They're Appalachians.

Ohio is a lot bigger than just Columbus and Toledo.
Wrong! Southeastern Ohio does care.


Growing up in the Pittsburgh area in the Sixties and early Seventies, half of my extended family (cousins, uncles, brother) had moved to Cleveland to find work.

That was true of many families in the area.

Cleveland always looked east from my personal perspective.
Didn't know Cleveland was in Southeastern Ohio!
05-10-2019 02:56 PM
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Captain Bearcat Online
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Post: #26
RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
(05-10-2019 02:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Lots of interesting thoughts here. I'm going to try to hit on several points:

1. Notre Dame absolutely joins this league c. 1912. In the beginning, football independence was something imposed on ND, not sought after. If a bunch of state schools ran by Protestants invites them to be their peers they jump all over it.

2. Going South. I don't see schools like UVA getting into this league due to segregation. Most of these schools are going to demand integrated teams or at least being able to bring their black athletes to away games. That's probably a no go in 1953. I also share skepticism about WVU getting invited due to academics.

3. Michigan and Ohio St were not joined to the hip in mutual hatred in 1912. At that point in the series it was a one sided affair and U of M thought very little of the Buckeyes. With that said, after Feilding Yost (anti-ND) left the program and it became clear that this conference was stronger than the Big Ten I think there's a possibility Blue switches leagues.

4. Looking at deeper emplications, if this conference came to be I think some of the schools that broke away from the MVC to form the Big 8 end up being Big Ten schools but I don't see Oklahoma among them and I think the Sooners and Aggies end up back in the SWC.

5. One other thing to think about, depending on this league's size in the 50s is some association with the PCC schools who wanted to found the Airplane Conference hooking up with this group.

That's a good point. If Michigan leaves the Big 10 for this Ohio-based conference in 1990, then the Big 8 might have combined with the Chicago-based Big 10 instead of the Texas-based Southwest Conference.

But there's 15 teams. And the SWC was falling apart, so Texas/Texas A&M were looking for homes.

Which 2 Big 10 teams would the Big 8 have taken? My guess is Wisconsin and Illinois.

That would leave the following teams looking for homes 5 Big Ten teams, 6 SWC teams, 5 Metro teams:
Minnesota - Big 10 leftover
Purdue - Big 10 leftover
Northwestern - Big 10 leftover
Iowa - Big 10 leftover
Indiana - Big 10 leftover
Texas Tech - SWC leftover
Baylor - SWC leftover
SMU - SWC leftover
Rice - SWC leftover
TCU - SWC leftover
Houston - SWC leftover
Louisville - Metro leftovers
Memphis - Metro leftovers
Tulane - Metro leftovers
Southern Miss - Metro leftovers
Virginia Tech leftovers

Rather than a super-WAC, we might have seen a super-Middle!
(This post was last modified: 05-10-2019 03:26 PM by Captain Bearcat.)
05-10-2019 03:25 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #27
RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
(05-10-2019 03:25 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 02:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Lots of interesting thoughts here. I'm going to try to hit on several points:

1. Notre Dame absolutely joins this league c. 1912. In the beginning, football independence was something imposed on ND, not sought after. If a bunch of state schools ran by Protestants invites them to be their peers they jump all over it.

2. Going South. I don't see schools like UVA getting into this league due to segregation. Most of these schools are going to demand integrated teams or at least being able to bring their black athletes to away games. That's probably a no go in 1953. I also share skepticism about WVU getting invited due to academics.

3. Michigan and Ohio St were not joined to the hip in mutual hatred in 1912. At that point in the series it was a one sided affair and U of M thought very little of the Buckeyes. With that said, after Feilding Yost (anti-ND) left the program and it became clear that this conference was stronger than the Big Ten I think there's a possibility Blue switches leagues.

4. Looking at deeper emplications, if this conference came to be I think some of the schools that broke away from the MVC to form the Big 8 end up being Big Ten schools but I don't see Oklahoma among them and I think the Sooners and Aggies end up back in the SWC.

5. One other thing to think about, depending on this league's size in the 50s is some association with the PCC schools who wanted to found the Airplane Conference hooking up with this group.

That's a good point. If Michigan leaves the Big 10 for this Ohio-based conference in 1990, then the Big 8 might have combined with the Chicago-based Big 10 instead of the Texas-based Southwest Conference.

But there's 15 teams. And the SWC was falling apart, so Texas/Texas A&M were looking for homes.

Which 2 Big 10 teams would the Big 8 have taken? My guess is Wisconsin and Illinois.

That would leave the following teams looking for homes 5 Big Ten teams, 6 SWC teams, 5 Metro teams:
Minnesota - Big 10 leftover
Purdue - Big 10 leftover
Northwestern - Big 10 leftover
Iowa - Big 10 leftover
Indiana - Big 10 leftover
Texas Tech - SWC leftover
Baylor - SWC leftover
SMU - SWC leftover
Rice - SWC leftover
TCU - SWC leftover
Houston - SWC leftover
Louisville - Metro leftovers
Memphis - Metro leftovers
Tulane - Metro leftovers
Southern Miss - Metro leftovers
Virginia Tech leftovers

Rather than a super-WAC, we might have seen a super-Middle!

I'm thinking of a move much earlier--1928. The year 6 schools created a spin off league, later adding Colorado and Okla St and adopting the Big 8 name. Iowa St, Nebraska, and Kansas seem the most likely.

Kansas St likely doesn't get in due to being a little brother that's not AAU or good at football. Missouri possibly and Oklahoma definitely run into issues involving black athletes.

If/when Michigan would switch conferences is up for debate. My guess is the 40s at the very earliest. If Michigan moves I think it opens things for others to switch. I don't see America's oldest conference getting completely dismantled but if Michigan moves it becomes a much weaker league.

Mich (eventually leaves?)
Indiana
Purdue
Illinois
Northwestern
Chicago (until the 50s)
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Iowa
Iowa St
Nebraska
Kansas
Missouri (?)
(This post was last modified: 05-10-2019 04:09 PM by Fighting Muskie.)
05-10-2019 04:02 PM
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Post: #28
RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
(05-10-2019 08:15 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 06:21 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 02:58 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I just can't see Ohioans being happy orienting east. I certainly wouldn't be. I'd rather align with Kansas City and Dallas than New York and Philadelphia. Maybe it's generations conditioned by B1G participation -- but I doubt it, it runs deeper.

Ohio colleges were a popular destination in the 60's and 70's for east coasters to escape the urban blight.

In the last 30 years the public schools have continued to thrive with updated campuses and a lower total cost than the privates. Cost though has driven most of the out of state students away. Also those urban areas have gentrified with the best job opportunities.

That's actually not true at all with respect to Ohio State and Miami. Those campuses in particular are drawing as many out-of-state students as ever. Granted, that's intentional by public universities everywhere (not just Ohio) since in-state funding cuts have made it more important to find people willing to pay out-of-state tuition dollars.

Yes but its just those 2.

Ohio, UC, Kent State are built on in-state price point.

The lower tier publics in Ohio are struggling to get any interest at all.
05-10-2019 05:27 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
(05-10-2019 02:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Lots of interesting thoughts here. I'm going to try to hit on several points:

1. Notre Dame absolutely joins this league c. 1912. In the beginning, football independence was something imposed on ND, not sought after. If a bunch of state schools ran by Protestants invites them to be their peers they jump all over it.

2. Going South. I don't see schools like UVA getting into this league due to segregation. Most of these schools are going to demand integrated teams or at least being able to bring their black athletes to away games. That's probably a no go in 1953. I also share skepticism about WVU getting invited due to academics.

3. Michigan and Ohio St were not joined to the hip in mutual hatred in 1912. At that point in the series it was a one sided affair and U of M thought very little of the Buckeyes. With that said, after Feilding Yost (anti-ND) left the program and it became clear that this conference was stronger than the Big Ten I think there's a possibility Blue switches leagues.

4. Looking at deeper emplications, if this conference came to be I think some of the schools that broke away from the MVC to form the Big 8 end up being Big Ten schools but I don't see Oklahoma among them and I think the Sooners and Aggies end up back in the SWC.

5. One other thing to think about, depending on this league's size in the 50s is some association with the PCC schools who wanted to found the Airplane Conference hooking up with this group.

If Michigan teamed up with Ohio State in 1912, Notre Dame wouldn't have been invited. Fielding Yost was the blackballer when the Wolverines were in the Western Conference, and he was the primary reason the Irish were snubbed.
05-10-2019 07:36 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #30
RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
(05-10-2019 07:36 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 02:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Lots of interesting thoughts here. I'm going to try to hit on several points:

1. Notre Dame absolutely joins this league c. 1912. In the beginning, football independence was something imposed on ND, not sought after. If a bunch of state schools ran by Protestants invites them to be their peers they jump all over it.

2. Going South. I don't see schools like UVA getting into this league due to segregation. Most of these schools are going to demand integrated teams or at least being able to bring their black athletes to away games. That's probably a no go in 1953. I also share skepticism about WVU getting invited due to academics.

3. Michigan and Ohio St were not joined to the hip in mutual hatred in 1912. At that point in the series it was a one sided affair and U of M thought very little of the Buckeyes. With that said, after Feilding Yost (anti-ND) left the program and it became clear that this conference was stronger than the Big Ten I think there's a possibility Blue switches leagues.

4. Looking at deeper emplications, if this conference came to be I think some of the schools that broke away from the MVC to form the Big 8 end up being Big Ten schools but I don't see Oklahoma among them and I think the Sooners and Aggies end up back in the SWC.

5. One other thing to think about, depending on this league's size in the 50s is some association with the PCC schools who wanted to found the Airplane Conference hooking up with this group.

If Michigan teamed up with Ohio State in 1912, Notre Dame wouldn't have been invited. Fielding Yost was the blackballer when the Wolverines were in the Western Conference, and he was the primary reason the Irish were snubbed.

Dude, follow the posts. My OP doesn't include Michigan. It's Michigan St and Notre Dame--two schools that U of M wanted nothing to do with. A few posters have suggested that the Wolverines might eventually jump ship to this league but that wouldn't happen until at least the 40s after Yost left as AD.
05-10-2019 08:27 PM
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Post: #31
RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
(05-10-2019 02:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Lots of interesting thoughts here. I'm going to try to hit on several points:

1. Notre Dame absolutely joins this league c. 1912. In the beginning, football independence was something imposed on ND, not sought after. If a bunch of state schools ran by Protestants invites them to be their peers they jump all over it.

2. Going South. I don't see schools like UVA getting into this league due to segregation. Most of these schools are going to demand integrated teams or at least being able to bring their black athletes to away games. That's probably a no go in 1953. I also share skepticism about WVU getting invited due to academics.

3. Michigan and Ohio St were not joined to the hip in mutual hatred in 1912. At that point in the series it was a one sided affair and U of M thought very little of the Buckeyes. With that said, after Feilding Yost (anti-ND) left the program and it became clear that this conference was stronger than the Big Ten I think there's a possibility Blue switches leagues.

4. Looking at deeper emplications, if this conference came to be I think some of the schools that broke away from the MVC to form the Big 8 end up being Big Ten schools but I don't see Oklahoma among them and I think the Sooners and Aggies end up back in the SWC.

5. One other thing to think about, depending on this league's size in the 50s is some association with the PCC schools who wanted to found the Airplane Conference hooking up with this group.

Even if ND joined this group I don't know how long it would last. They may insist on bringing in Boston College with Pitt. In those days the focus was truly regional. A conference surrounding Ohio State would probably not go beyond nine and would include state flagships or emerging football schools in the Appalachians. East coast cities like Boston would probably not fit in those plans.

Now if, say, Northwestern were to join up this group then that would become interesting. Northwestern, ND, Pitt, Michigan State and Penn State would have been a nice grouping. Then it becomes a matter of if it goes further East in the decades ahead or merge with the remnants of the Western Conference.
05-11-2019 03:37 AM
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RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
(05-11-2019 03:37 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 02:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Lots of interesting thoughts here. I'm going to try to hit on several points:

1. Notre Dame absolutely joins this league c. 1912. In the beginning, football independence was something imposed on ND, not sought after. If a bunch of state schools ran by Protestants invites them to be their peers they jump all over it.

2. Going South. I don't see schools like UVA getting into this league due to segregation. Most of these schools are going to demand integrated teams or at least being able to bring their black athletes to away games. That's probably a no go in 1953. I also share skepticism about WVU getting invited due to academics.

3. Michigan and Ohio St were not joined to the hip in mutual hatred in 1912. At that point in the series it was a one sided affair and U of M thought very little of the Buckeyes. With that said, after Feilding Yost (anti-ND) left the program and it became clear that this conference was stronger than the Big Ten I think there's a possibility Blue switches leagues.

4. Looking at deeper emplications, if this conference came to be I think some of the schools that broke away from the MVC to form the Big 8 end up being Big Ten schools but I don't see Oklahoma among them and I think the Sooners and Aggies end up back in the SWC.

5. One other thing to think about, depending on this league's size in the 50s is some association with the PCC schools who wanted to found the Airplane Conference hooking up with this group.

Even if ND joined this group I don't know how long it would last. They may insist on bringing in Boston College with Pitt. In those days the focus was truly regional. A conference surrounding Ohio State would probably not go beyond nine and would include state flagships or emerging football schools in the Appalachians. East coast cities like Boston would probably not fit in those plans.

Now if, say, Northwestern were to join up this group then that would become interesting. Northwestern, ND, Pitt, Michigan State and Penn State would have been a nice grouping. Then it becomes a matter of if it goes further East in the decades ahead or merge with the remnants of the Western Conference.

I'm thinking the founding core is probably:

ND
Mich St
Ohio St
Cincy
Penn St
Pitt
Syracuse
BC

It's a set up very reminiscent of baseball's AL and NL at the time--a circuit of 4 east coast teams and 4 Midwestern teams. I think it's a fairly harmonious group too. It's not too big so there's room for OOC games like Army vs ND in NYC. This league would produce nationally relevant teams year in and year out.

Eventually raiding the Big Ten is not out of the question. I see Michigan, not Northwestern as the big prize though.
05-11-2019 09:03 AM
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Post: #33
RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
and what if there were so many fish in the sea.... there was no water.
and what if over every hill there is a valley and it is only 6 feet deep.03-lmfao
05-11-2019 09:15 AM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
(05-10-2019 02:56 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 01:46 PM)TerryD Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 12:35 PM)cubucks Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 10:40 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 02:58 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Impossible to even consider. Ohio and Michigan have been joined at the hip since the drunken battle for Toledo. We (Ohioans) gave Michiganders their nickname in that ferocious firefight across the river, saying they were like wild animals, no better than wolverines. It stuck. Of course we are named after an inedible fruit -- but great substitutes for dirt clods to throw at each other, and excellent for really crappy 4th grade art class jewelry we made.

Note: a combination of poor weaponry, a swollen river too wide to shoot accurately across across, combined with copious lubrication of the combatants with locally distilled spirits conspired to prevent any casualties.

I just can't see Ohioans being happy orienting east. I certainly wouldn't be. I'd rather align with Kansas City and Dallas than New York and Philadelphia. Maybe it's generations conditioned by B1G participation -- but I doubt it, it runs deeper.

Northeastern Ohioans (Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown, Ashtabula) have no problem orienting East. Cleveland thinks of itself as the bridge between NYC and Chicago, and they see themselves as a smaller version of New York (in fact when I was in college in Cleveland, Hollywood movies that were supposed to take place in New York were sometimes filmed in Cleveland).


SW Ohioans don't care about Michigan. It was settled by Appalachians and Germans. Michigan is just as far away as Missouri or Tennessee to us. Our twin cities are Louisville and St. Louis and Munich (river cities that were also settled by mountain men and Germans).

SE Ohioans don't care about Michigan either. They're Appalachians.

Ohio is a lot bigger than just Columbus and Toledo.
Wrong! Southeastern Ohio does care.


Growing up in the Pittsburgh area in the Sixties and early Seventies, half of my extended family (cousins, uncles, brother) had moved to Cleveland to find work.

That was true of many families in the area.

Cleveland always looked east from my personal perspective.
Didn't know Cleveland was in Southeastern Ohio!

I was responding to the first paragraph of the previous post (highlighted).
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2019 10:51 AM by TerryD.)
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Sparty84 Offline
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RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
Just as a side note from a Spartan.
Ann Arbor... shes a whore.
Wolverines have a long history of political antagonism towards Michigan State.
Our hatred of wolverines in sports is just the tip of the iceberg.
From that respect I understand how ND feels about Michigan and by extension the BIG.

To me the Irish and the Buckeyes are like a brother from another mother.

The idea of a tOSU, Irish, Sparty conference sounds awesome.
05-11-2019 11:12 AM
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Rube Dali Offline
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Post: #36
RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
If the Buckeyes never joined the "Western" Conference and instead created their own conference in 1912, Michigan absolutely joins, so would Miami, Ohio U, Pitt, Penn State, Syracuse and Carnegie Tech. Notre Dame would have taken OSU's spot in the "Western" and Michigan State would have joined a lot earlier than they actually did.
05-11-2019 10:34 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #37
RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
(05-10-2019 08:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 07:36 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 02:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Lots of interesting thoughts here. I'm going to try to hit on several points:

1. Notre Dame absolutely joins this league c. 1912. In the beginning, football independence was something imposed on ND, not sought after. If a bunch of state schools ran by Protestants invites them to be their peers they jump all over it.

2. Going South. I don't see schools like UVA getting into this league due to segregation. Most of these schools are going to demand integrated teams or at least being able to bring their black athletes to away games. That's probably a no go in 1953. I also share skepticism about WVU getting invited due to academics.

3. Michigan and Ohio St were not joined to the hip in mutual hatred in 1912. At that point in the series it was a one sided affair and U of M thought very little of the Buckeyes. With that said, after Feilding Yost (anti-ND) left the program and it became clear that this conference was stronger than the Big Ten I think there's a possibility Blue switches leagues.

4. Looking at deeper emplications, if this conference came to be I think some of the schools that broke away from the MVC to form the Big 8 end up being Big Ten schools but I don't see Oklahoma among them and I think the Sooners and Aggies end up back in the SWC.

5. One other thing to think about, depending on this league's size in the 50s is some association with the PCC schools who wanted to found the Airplane Conference hooking up with this group.

If Michigan teamed up with Ohio State in 1912, Notre Dame wouldn't have been invited. Fielding Yost was the blackballer when the Wolverines were in the Western Conference, and he was the primary reason the Irish were snubbed.

Dude, follow the posts. My OP doesn't include Michigan. It's Michigan St and Notre Dame--two schools that U of M wanted nothing to do with. A few posters have suggested that the Wolverines might eventually jump ship to this league but that wouldn't happen until at least the 40s after Yost left as AD.

I am following the posts, and not just the OP. What I am saying is that it would have been more likely that Ohio State would have considered teaming up with fellow independent state flagship Michigan before considering small Catholic upstart Notre Dame. Whether those two would have included Michigan State in their fledgling conference is anybody's guess.

I think it would have been more likely that Notre Dame would have been invited to the Big 9 after Michigan left it.
05-13-2019 02:33 PM
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colohank Offline
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Post: #38
RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
What if some Pleistocene predator had eaten Lucy and there'd have been no surviving humans? Would another species have invented football?
05-13-2019 05:14 PM
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colohank Offline
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Post: #39
RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
(05-10-2019 02:44 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 12:20 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Who won the battle of Toledo?
Mich

Well if you look at a map, it's labeled Toledo, OH not Toledo, MI so I'd say Ohio won that little dispute. Michigan did walk away with a nice conciliation prize in the form of the UP though.

You completely missed the point: Michigan won precisely because Ohio got stuck with Toledo.
05-13-2019 05:19 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #40
RE: What if: Ohio St never joins the B10, starts its own conference
(05-13-2019 05:19 PM)colohank Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 02:44 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(05-10-2019 12:20 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Who won the battle of Toledo?
Mich

Well if you look at a map, it's labeled Toledo, OH not Toledo, MI so I'd say Ohio won that little dispute. Michigan did walk away with a nice conciliation prize in the form of the UP though.

You completely missed the point: Michigan won precisely because Ohio got stuck with Toledo.

True. Toledo's a dump.
05-13-2019 07:35 PM
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