https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sen-amy-klo...buse-plan/

Big issue. But big price tag. $100 billion.

We already know the left's "plan" for mental health.

Bring them in for beaurocratic checkups regularly, prescribe meds (many of them experimental).

They don't ever seem to admit that their meds lead to addiction or side effects that are sometimes worse than the original mental health issue.

I haven't looked at the details, but 100byn isn't that much compared to healthcare in general. I'd sure rather spend 100byn on mental health than trillions on a green new deal.

Again, haven't looked at the details... may be horrible

I don't disagree with this in principle: "The Minnesota Democrat wants to pay for treatment for those addicted to opioids by charging a two-cents-per-milligram fee to companies that make the drug. More Americans died of overdoses in 2017 than did in the entire Vietnam War.

"They made the money, they should make for this treatment," she told "CBS This Morning.""

I wonder if she, or CBS News, is aware that Mueller had no issue with the characterization of the content of Barr's released report but rather only in how he chose to release it regarding timing.

"Klobuchar said Attorney General William Barr's testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee was "misleading," at a minimum. Barr has come under renewed scrutiny in recent days in light of news that Mueller wrote to Barr expressing his concerns about Barr's characterization of the report."

I'm fine with $100B if it solves that issue. This is something both sides should be able to come up with something on.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

(05-04-2019 09:15 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I'm fine with $100B if it solves that issue. This is something both sides should be able to come up with something on.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

as long as it includes treatment for TDS.

(05-04-2019 09:15 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I'm fine with $100B if it solves that issue. This is something both sides should be able to come up with something on.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Nobody is solving this fiasco for 100 Billion. The issue is there are no hospitals for the mentally ill any longer. Most are remanded to their parents for care and the parents simply aren't equipped to deal with the bi-polar, schizophrenic, psychopathic, psychotic disorders that are out there.

Virtually all of them I encountered over 20 years of non profit work also were addicted to some kind of self medicating substance. The chicken or egg question is does the mental illness lead to addiction, or does the addiction lead to the mental illness, or is it both at the same time?

What I have witnessed are numerous families who went bankrupt with alternating hospitalization costs, rehab costs, and legal fees only to have the nucleus of the family destroyed by ultimately having the now 30 to 40 year old social invalid dumped right back into their laps. And none of the parents could simply let their now adult children hit the streets or go to prison.

We need places that can appropriately treat their minds, wean their body from addictive substances, and find them something, away from the general public, which is productive to do with their lives. They simply aren't like any of the general public, and are only victims in the prison system, unless of course they are psychopathic.

And to provide that kind of care is going to take much much more than 100 Billion. I would entertain the idea of the pharmaceutical charge, and also would consider using the auction of confiscated property from narcotics busts to fund part of it instead of having it going directly to law enforcement. I just don't like a system where the law can benefit itself with confiscations. But if that money went to helping the addicted or mentally ill it would be serving the public good and indirectly helping law enforcement at the same time.

Mentally ill and substance abuse aren’t necessarily the same thing.

(05-04-2019 09:45 PM)dfarr Wrote:  Mentally ill and substance abuse aren’t necessarily the same thing.

Of course not, but there is a very high incidence for those disorders I listed to be accompanied by some form of self medication with substances. In some cases the patients were drug addicts before they diagnosed mentally and in some cases they were already mental patients before they became addicts. Not all addicts are mentally ill nor or all mentally ill persons addicts. But a facility that can distinguish between the two or treat both would be a major help to a great number of families and would cut down on a lot of crime, and on a lot of victims, if we had them to use. Putting these folks in a prison doesn't help them, doesn't help their families, and doesn't help the prisons.

(05-04-2019 09:45 PM)dfarr Wrote:  Mentally ill and substance abuse aren’t necessarily the same thing.

yup....when it comes to chronic pain, one will do whatever it takes based on 'services' available...

be it insured carving or some 'majik' psilocybin, trust me, one will find one way or the other....

mentally ill is a broad brush sometimes used to tag the meek with ill means....then there's just the crazy fkrs with a chromosome out of whack....

regardless, the more we propagate, the increase in chance evolves into another level of hell on earth until genetic engineering takes over.....

they'll figure it out one day.....no differently than religion took us from idolatry

ANOTHER CHAPTER WILL UNFOLD

(05-04-2019 09:59 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 09:45 PM)dfarr Wrote:  Mentally ill and substance abuse aren’t necessarily the same thing.

yup....when it comes to chronic pain, one will do whatever it takes based on 'services' available...

be it insured carving or some 'majik' psilocybin, trust me, one will find one way or the other....

mentally ill is a broad brush sometimes used to tag the meek with ill means....then there's just the crazy fkrs with a chromosome out of whack....

regardless, the more we propagate, the increase in chance evolves into another level of hell on earth until genetic engineering takes over.....

they'll figure it out one day.....no differently than religion took us from idolatry

ANOTHER CHAPTER WILL UNFOLD

Fair enough, but it does nothing for the current issues. Arguing distinctions isn't addressing the number of mentally ill and addicts going untreated on the streets, or those whose families are struggling to try to help them at home.

As a society we simply are not equipped to let them wander around. So when it comes to having a system in place to deal with them, and hopefully provide them a place to plug in productively without exposing them to the rest of society, I'm all ears.

All opioids are not the same, no matter how hard they try to link them together.

Quote:In 2016, synthetic opioids (primarily illegal fentanyl) passed prescription opioids as the most common drugs involved in overdose deaths in the United States. In 2016, synthetic opioids were involved in nearly 50% (19,413) of opioid-related deaths,

In 2017 deaths
fentanyl 28,466
heroin 15,482
Coke 13,942
benzodiazepines 11,534

prescription opioid 17,029 and this includes methadone

In 1999 the number of deaths by prescription opioid was 3442. Why are we so worried about such a small number of people taking their own live when Alcohol Use takes 88,000 a year? The economic costs of excessive alcohol consumption in 2010 were estimated at $249 billion. I'm fairly sure it's doubled that since 2010.

This fight on opioids is being fought at the wrong end of the scale....yes addiction is a problem. It's been a problem since the beginning of time from one thing or another. It will be a problem till the end of time. But we are fighting this the wrong way.....

going after the low end, 5 to 10mg of hydrcondone that really does work for pain relief and putting that in with drugs like fentanyl and heroin that is causing most deaths. Only does one thing....

makes those in pain and with a aging population, there's more and more people fighting the pain....well it makes them suffer and it's driving up cost (medical).

When the clearly more pressing problem, if we are so worried about people dying before old age...

is alcohol. Well that and smokes. Yet it's easier to get as many of those as you want. Than a person with crippling pain, to get a pill to help relief that pain.

Anyone that's been in real pain, pain that last day after day knows...you never get full relief. Yet those people are treated like the common drug addict. They must piss in a cup each month ($100 to $800up test).

They have to see a pain doctor every month ($250 up). If they are having a really bad day, or days, they have to stick to their 1 pill every 6 hours.

If they take 5 instead of 4 one or two or three days because of the pain. They must do without at the end of the month because you can only fill a script once a month. If they get a call from the Dr's office they must go in for a pill count. If they are out of town they must prove the amount of pills they have left by a signed statement from a notary.

Yet a person can walk into a store show an ID and walk out with alcohol...88,000 will be dead by the end of the year or kill someone else because of alcohol.

Anyone that's been around addicts know if you limit their drug of choice....they will find another one. Treatment will help but has it's limits because till something changes in an addicts life to make them want to give it up....

most will find their way back to the drug. It's just like those that smoke (cigs) or drink alcohol day after day.

Most of these ******** have no ideal how to address this problem...money wont fix it and neither will new laws

(05-04-2019 10:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 09:59 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 09:45 PM)dfarr Wrote:  Mentally ill and substance abuse aren’t necessarily the same thing.

yup....when it comes to chronic pain, one will do whatever it takes based on 'services' available...

be it insured carving or some 'majik' psilocybin, trust me, one will find one way or the other....

mentally ill is a broad brush sometimes used to tag the meek with ill means....then there's just the crazy fkrs with a chromosome out of whack....

regardless, the more we propagate, the increase in chance evolves into another level of hell on earth until genetic engineering takes over.....

they'll figure it out one day.....no differently than religion took us from idolatry

ANOTHER CHAPTER WILL UNFOLD

Fair enough, but it does nothing for the current issues. Arguing distinctions isn't addressing the number of mentally ill and addicts going untreated on the streets, or those whose families are struggling to try to help them at home.

As a society we simply are not equipped to let them wander around. So when it comes to having a system in place to deal with them, and hopefully provide them a place to plug in productively without exposing them to the rest of society, I'm all ears.

agreed....

in converse, we're also not equipped to treat and absorb how either are progressing as expenses increase across the spectrum...

it's a pickle barrel any way you chop it up....

I wish I had a definitive solution.....I don't

(05-04-2019 10:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 09:59 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 09:45 PM)dfarr Wrote:  Mentally ill and substance abuse aren’t necessarily the same thing.

yup....when it comes to chronic pain, one will do whatever it takes based on 'services' available...

be it insured carving or some 'majik' psilocybin, trust me, one will find one way or the other....

mentally ill is a broad brush sometimes used to tag the meek with ill means....then there's just the crazy fkrs with a chromosome out of whack....

regardless, the more we propagate, the increase in chance evolves into another level of hell on earth until genetic engineering takes over.....

they'll figure it out one day.....no differently than religion took us from idolatry

ANOTHER CHAPTER WILL UNFOLD

Fair enough, but it does nothing for the current issues. Arguing distinctions isn't addressing the number of mentally ill and addicts going untreated on the streets, or those whose families are struggling to try to help them at home.

As a society we simply are not equipped to let them wander around. So when it comes to having a system in place to deal with them, and hopefully provide them a place to plug in productively without exposing them to the rest of society, I'm all ears.

When you say addicts, defined which ones you cant have wandering around the streets?

I dont know you but I think it's a safe guess to say you are addicted to something. Without knowing for a fact I guess I've been around as many drug addicts as anyone on this board. Most function as well as those addicted to cigs or alcohol. The one thing they have in common....

they will get their fix

But most go to work every day and do the things every day people do. Other than making sure to get their drug of choice. The one's out stealing or committing other crimes are not the norm. Just as it is with those of you that are addicted to your 2 packs a day or going home after work to your 6 pack...7 days a week.

(05-04-2019 10:13 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 10:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 09:59 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 09:45 PM)dfarr Wrote:  Mentally ill and substance abuse aren’t necessarily the same thing.

yup....when it comes to chronic pain, one will do whatever it takes based on 'services' available...

be it insured carving or some 'majik' psilocybin, trust me, one will find one way or the other....

mentally ill is a broad brush sometimes used to tag the meek with ill means....then there's just the crazy fkrs with a chromosome out of whack....

regardless, the more we propagate, the increase in chance evolves into another level of hell on earth until genetic engineering takes over.....

they'll figure it out one day.....no differently than religion took us from idolatry

ANOTHER CHAPTER WILL UNFOLD

Fair enough, but it does nothing for the current issues. Arguing distinctions isn't addressing the number of mentally ill and addicts going untreated on the streets, or those whose families are struggling to try to help them at home.

As a society we simply are not equipped to let them wander around. So when it comes to having a system in place to deal with them, and hopefully provide them a place to plug in productively without exposing them to the rest of society, I'm all ears.

agreed....

in converse, we're also not equipped to treat and absorb how either are progressing as expenses increase across the spectrum...

it's a pickle barrel any way you chop it up....

I wish I had a definitive solution.....I don't

I just look at the situation prophylactically. Even if we can't help them, we need someplace besides prison to put them. The ancillary benefit would be worth the cost. It would help families be more productive, cut down on crime (both property and assault crimes) court fees, and would free up more time for law enforcement. It would also clean up some of the cost at ER's.

So I see it as a first step towards addressing the crisis. Isolating those affected into regional facilities that were better equipped to treat them would be a good start that would have other benefits. And if it could be funded with proscription taxes and materials seized from criminal activity I think that would at least be a reasonable beginning. Losing 55 thousand a year to addiction and drug related crimes will wipe out significant numbers of an already shrinking potential work force. Not to mention that it shrinks the number of potential military personnel in time of crisis.

If I was going to be hard hearted I'd suggest the Chi-com approach. As one guy I know suggested, they could all become free labor on pot farms.

(05-04-2019 10:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 10:13 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 10:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 09:59 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 09:45 PM)dfarr Wrote:  Mentally ill and substance abuse aren’t necessarily the same thing.

yup....when it comes to chronic pain, one will do whatever it takes based on 'services' available...

be it insured carving or some 'majik' psilocybin, trust me, one will find one way or the other....

mentally ill is a broad brush sometimes used to tag the meek with ill means....then there's just the crazy fkrs with a chromosome out of whack....

regardless, the more we propagate, the increase in chance evolves into another level of hell on earth until genetic engineering takes over.....

they'll figure it out one day.....no differently than religion took us from idolatry

ANOTHER CHAPTER WILL UNFOLD

Fair enough, but it does nothing for the current issues. Arguing distinctions isn't addressing the number of mentally ill and addicts going untreated on the streets, or those whose families are struggling to try to help them at home.

As a society we simply are not equipped to let them wander around. So when it comes to having a system in place to deal with them, and hopefully provide them a place to plug in productively without exposing them to the rest of society, I'm all ears.

agreed....

in converse, we're also not equipped to treat and absorb how either are progressing as expenses increase across the spectrum...

it's a pickle barrel any way you chop it up....

I wish I had a definitive solution.....I don't

I just look at the situation prophylactically. Even if we can't help them, we need someplace besides prison to put them. The ancillary benefit would be worth the cost. It would help families be more productive, cut down on crime (both property and assault crimes) court fees, and would free up more time for law enforcement. It would also clean up some of the cost at ER's.

So I see it as a first step towards addressing the crisis. Isolating those affected into regional facilities that were better equipped to treat them would be a good start that would have other benefits. And if it could be funded with proscription taxes and materials seized from criminal activity I think that would at least be a reasonable beginning. Losing 55 thousand a year to addiction and drug related crimes will wipe out significant numbers of an already shrinking potential work force. Not to mention that it shrinks the number of potential military personnel in time of crisis.

If I was going to be hard hearted I'd suggest the Chi-com approach. As one guy I know suggested, they could all become free labor on pot farms.

the crux is in bold and sticks in my 'craw'....

this is why i've hammered Nixon, Reagan, and HW for not having a fk'n clue how to design a better method to absorb....

you're correct in valuation of any problem in design....you have to start by promoting education vs. incarceration....

it's sinful how those dipshites didn't learn from the days of prohibition....

now, we have chemistry and illegal transportation off the chain w/o the means to combat effectively....yeah, let's build more prisons and fight another imaginary war....we don't need need no stinkin' badges or wall

fk'n idiots...

Peter Principle personified

(05-04-2019 10:20 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 10:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 09:59 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 09:45 PM)dfarr Wrote:  Mentally ill and substance abuse aren’t necessarily the same thing.

yup....when it comes to chronic pain, one will do whatever it takes based on 'services' available...

be it insured carving or some 'majik' psilocybin, trust me, one will find one way or the other....

mentally ill is a broad brush sometimes used to tag the meek with ill means....then there's just the crazy fkrs with a chromosome out of whack....

regardless, the more we propagate, the increase in chance evolves into another level of hell on earth until genetic engineering takes over.....

they'll figure it out one day.....no differently than religion took us from idolatry

ANOTHER CHAPTER WILL UNFOLD

Fair enough, but it does nothing for the current issues. Arguing distinctions isn't addressing the number of mentally ill and addicts going untreated on the streets, or those whose families are struggling to try to help them at home.

As a society we simply are not equipped to let them wander around. So when it comes to having a system in place to deal with them, and hopefully provide them a place to plug in productively without exposing them to the rest of society, I'm all ears.

When you say addicts, defined which ones you cant have wandering around the streets?

I dont know you but I think it's a safe guess to say you are addicted to something. Without knowing for a fact I guess I've been around as many drug addicts as anyone on this board. Most function as well as those addicted to cigs or alcohol. The one thing they have in common....

they will get their fix

But most go to work every day and do the things every day people do. Other than making sure to get their drug of choice. The one's out stealing or committing other crimes are not the norm. Just as it is with those of you that are addicted to your 2 packs a day or going home after work to your 6 pack...7 days a week.

I'm talking narcotics and gateway drugs.

I can't have alcohol anymore (medically limited to 1 ounce a week so I just don't drink anything), and was never a drunk, and only drank on a few social occasions a year. I can't have caffeine because of medical reasons. I've never done drugs, never smoked, and don't gamble. I like to feel clear headed and if I work for it I want to keep as much of it as I can.

And if you had been paying attention to the thread you would know the discussion started out with the mentally ill, many of whom have substance abuse problems as well.

So we aren't talking about high functioning addicts of alcohol and pain killers. We are talking about those who are so mentally impaired that they are unemployable, uninsurable, and because of those conditions probably, but not necessarily, homeless. There really are no places of care available to most of them outside of soup kitchens and home centers where those who are truly unhinged still can't make it.

So don't read so much into it. I spent 20 years in non profit work dealing with the high functioning folks you are referring to, and with those who were clinically mentally ill. There's a whopping difference.

Don't confuse the issue.

By the way I 100% agree with you that you can't help anyone unless they want to be helped. But those who aren't mentally capable of recognizing the need for help are the ones we are talking about here. I listed a grouping of conditions in one of my previous posts. We need someplace for these people that is safer for them than prison, but still away from the general population.

(05-04-2019 10:45 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 10:20 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 10:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 09:59 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 09:45 PM)dfarr Wrote:  Mentally ill and substance abuse aren’t necessarily the same thing.

yup....when it comes to chronic pain, one will do whatever it takes based on 'services' available...

be it insured carving or some 'majik' psilocybin, trust me, one will find one way or the other....

mentally ill is a broad brush sometimes used to tag the meek with ill means....then there's just the crazy fkrs with a chromosome out of whack....

regardless, the more we propagate, the increase in chance evolves into another level of hell on earth until genetic engineering takes over.....

they'll figure it out one day.....no differently than religion took us from idolatry

ANOTHER CHAPTER WILL UNFOLD

Fair enough, but it does nothing for the current issues. Arguing distinctions isn't addressing the number of mentally ill and addicts going untreated on the streets, or those whose families are struggling to try to help them at home.

As a society we simply are not equipped to let them wander around. So when it comes to having a system in place to deal with them, and hopefully provide them a place to plug in productively without exposing them to the rest of society, I'm all ears.

When you say addicts, defined which ones you cant have wandering around the streets?

I dont know you but I think it's a safe guess to say you are addicted to something. Without knowing for a fact I guess I've been around as many drug addicts as anyone on this board. Most function as well as those addicted to cigs or alcohol. The one thing they have in common....

they will get their fix

But most go to work every day and do the things every day people do. Other than making sure to get their drug of choice. The one's out stealing or committing other crimes are not the norm. Just as it is with those of you that are addicted to your 2 packs a day or going home after work to your 6 pack...7 days a week.

I'm talking narcotics and gateway drugs.

I can't have alcohol anymore (medically limited to 1 ounce a week so I just don't drink anything), and was never a drunk, and only drank on a few social occasions a year. I can't have caffeine because of medical reasons. I've never done drugs, never smoked, and don't gamble. I like to feel clear headed and if I work for it I want to keep as much of it as I can.

And if you had been paying attention to the thread you would know the discussion started out with the mentally ill, many of whom have substance abuse problems as well.

So we aren't talking about high functioning addicts of alcohol and pain killers. We are talking about those who are so mentally impaired that they are unemployable, uninsurable, and because of those conditions probably, but not necessarily, homeless. There really are no places of care available to most of them outside of soup kitchens and home centers where those who are truly unhinged still can't make it.

So don't read so much into it. I spent 20 years in non profit work dealing with the high functioning folks you are referring to, and with those who were clinically mentally ill. There's a whopping difference.

Don't confuse the issue.

By the way I 100% agree with you that you can't help anyone unless they want to be helped. But those who aren't mentally capable of recognizing the need for help are the ones we are talking about here. I listed a grouping of conditions in one of my previous posts. We need someplace for these people that is safer for them than prison, but still away from the general population.

While you are trying to link the two together (Drug Abuse and Mental Health) that's not what the link or this topic is about....

two separate issues

Quote: Sen. Amy Klobuchar released a plan Friday to spend $100 billion over a decade on substance abuse and mental health, a topic that touches her personally. Klobuchar explained part of her plan in an interview with "CBS This Morning."

The Minnesota Democrat wants to pay for treatment for those addicted to opioids by charging a two-cents-per-milligram fee to companies that make the drug. More Americans died of overdoses in 2017 than did in the entire Vietnam War.

"They made the money, they should make for this treatment," she told "CBS This Morning."

For Klobuchar, fighting addiction and funding treatment is a personal cause. Her father, as she disclosed during the highly televised Brett Kavanaugh hearings, struggled with alcoholism. After his third DWI charge, he was forced to seek treatment.

"When he went to treatment, in his words, he was pursued by grace," Klobuchar said.

Klobuchar also wants to focus more on prevention addiction in the first place. She wants to find alternatives to opioids and expand state and local funding for mental health programs.

The article is 99% about opioids and addiction. Not the mental ill person walking around the streets. Mental health is mention, two times in the whole article and no detail.

While she mentions alcoholism we both know the government will never (again) address ways of really dealing with that. I take from your answer, you dont consider Alcohol to be one of the addictions you want to "lock away from others"?

Yet

Quote:Data suggests that engaging in prolonged drinking or binge drinking significantly increases your risk of committing violent offenses. Giving in to the harmful effects of alcohol can change your life in an instant. Not only are you jeopardizing your future, you are also putting others in danger. Criminal activities come with severe consequences such as time in jail, legal fees and other court-ordered penalties.

A number of individuals that serve time in jail have committed alcohol-related crimes. Offenses range from minor to serious and include property crime, public-order offenses, driving while intoxicated, assault and homicide. On average, roughly 40 percent of inmates who are incarcerated for violent offenses were under the influence of alcohol during the time of their crime.

she's a senator from the people's republic of Minnesota. propose legislation and get a bill passed.

A member of the Minnesota Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party

lunatics

(05-04-2019 11:14 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 10:45 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 10:20 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 10:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 09:59 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  yup....when it comes to chronic pain, one will do whatever it takes based on 'services' available...

be it insured carving or some 'majik' psilocybin, trust me, one will find one way or the other....

mentally ill is a broad brush sometimes used to tag the meek with ill means....then there's just the crazy fkrs with a chromosome out of whack....

regardless, the more we propagate, the increase in chance evolves into another level of hell on earth until genetic engineering takes over.....

they'll figure it out one day.....no differently than religion took us from idolatry

ANOTHER CHAPTER WILL UNFOLD

Fair enough, but it does nothing for the current issues. Arguing distinctions isn't addressing the number of mentally ill and addicts going untreated on the streets, or those whose families are struggling to try to help them at home.

As a society we simply are not equipped to let them wander around. So when it comes to having a system in place to deal with them, and hopefully provide them a place to plug in productively without exposing them to the rest of society, I'm all ears.

When you say addicts, defined which ones you cant have wandering around the streets?

I dont know you but I think it's a safe guess to say you are addicted to something. Without knowing for a fact I guess I've been around as many drug addicts as anyone on this board. Most function as well as those addicted to cigs or alcohol. The one thing they have in common....

they will get their fix

But most go to work every day and do the things every day people do. Other than making sure to get their drug of choice. The one's out stealing or committing other crimes are not the norm. Just as it is with those of you that are addicted to your 2 packs a day or going home after work to your 6 pack...7 days a week.

I'm talking narcotics and gateway drugs.

I can't have alcohol anymore (medically limited to 1 ounce a week so I just don't drink anything), and was never a drunk, and only drank on a few social occasions a year. I can't have caffeine because of medical reasons. I've never done drugs, never smoked, and don't gamble. I like to feel clear headed and if I work for it I want to keep as much of it as I can.

And if you had been paying attention to the thread you would know the discussion started out with the mentally ill, many of whom have substance abuse problems as well.

So we aren't talking about high functioning addicts of alcohol and pain killers. We are talking about those who are so mentally impaired that they are unemployable, uninsurable, and because of those conditions probably, but not necessarily, homeless. There really are no places of care available to most of them outside of soup kitchens and home centers where those who are truly unhinged still can't make it.

So don't read so much into it. I spent 20 years in non profit work dealing with the high functioning folks you are referring to, and with those who were clinically mentally ill. There's a whopping difference.

Don't confuse the issue.

By the way I 100% agree with you that you can't help anyone unless they want to be helped. But those who aren't mentally capable of recognizing the need for help are the ones we are talking about here. I listed a grouping of conditions in one of my previous posts. We need someplace for these people that is safer for them than prison, but still away from the general population.

While you are trying to link the two together (Drug Abuse and Mental Health) that's not what the link or this topic is about....

two separate issues

Quote: Sen. Amy Klobuchar released a plan Friday to spend $100 billion over a decade on substance abuse and mental health, a topic that touches her personally. Klobuchar explained part of her plan in an interview with "CBS This Morning."

The Minnesota Democrat wants to pay for treatment for those addicted to opioids by charging a two-cents-per-milligram fee to companies that make the drug. More Americans died of overdoses in 2017 than did in the entire Vietnam War.

"They made the money, they should make for this treatment," she told "CBS This Morning."

For Klobuchar, fighting addiction and funding treatment is a personal cause. Her father, as she disclosed during the highly televised Brett Kavanaugh hearings, struggled with alcoholism. After his third DWI charge, he was forced to seek treatment.

"When he went to treatment, in his words, he was pursued by grace," Klobuchar said.

Klobuchar also wants to focus more on prevention addiction in the first place. She wants to find alternatives to opioids and expand state and local funding for mental health programs.

The article is 99% about opioids and addiction. Not the mental ill person walking around the streets. Mental health is mention, two times in the whole article and no detail.

While she mentions alcoholism we both know the government will never (again) address ways of really dealing with that. I take from your answer, you dont consider Alcohol to be one of the addictions you want to "lock away from others"?

Yet

Quote:Data suggests that engaging in prolonged drinking or binge drinking significantly increases your risk of committing violent offenses. Giving in to the harmful effects of alcohol can change your life in an instant. Not only are you jeopardizing your future, you are also putting others in danger. Criminal activities come with severe consequences such as time in jail, legal fees and other court-ordered penalties.

A number of individuals that serve time in jail have committed alcohol-related crimes. Offenses range from minor to serious and include property crime, public-order offenses, driving while intoxicated, assault and homicide. On average, roughly 40 percent of inmates who are incarcerated for violent offenses were under the influence of alcohol during the time of their crime.

It's exactly about the two issues, linked or not, and in many real world cases they are linked. I don't think she wanted to get into specifics. I was pointing out where the money would be best spent. High functioning people are still functioning and won't seek help until they have to do so. Mental health and substance abuse were linked at the outset of the article. Those with incapacitating mental illness right now have nowhere to go but prison. If their families can afford it they'll go to clinic for the depressed or to a rehab facility. Those usually discharge them when the insurance runs out or the families are tapped out.

Those are the ones that need a place to go.

As for the rest there's no difference between the prohibition of the 20's and drug trafficking today. Legalizing pot may have been a first step to some control, but it will be limited in impact. After all we still have stills operating in Kentucky and Alabama do we not?

The ultimate result of opium and alcohol addictions is death, either slowly or suddenly. The reason many governments don't spend money on treating either is that help is available for those who seek it and for those who don't they essentially eliminate themselves as problems.

The only viable plan of action is to go after the sources. But the collusion in that trade has tentacles that stretch into the wealthy and those at all levels of government.

So you have those who will not be helped, those who are profiting by the illegal trade, and that leaves the most productive way forward for all concerned to be the building of facilities for those so incapacitated by mental illness as to be a burden to their families and communities and the general public. That money would be well spent.