(05-05-2019 01:10 PM)king king Wrote:  The problem with this rationale as I see it, JMHO, is that this is talking about government limiting someone's access to the Public Square. This isn't that. This is the Public Square limiting access to the people. In this case, the public square has applied a certain AUP (the same way this site works) and shuts down the mouthpiece of those held in violation.
You agree to it when you sign up.

I agree with others comments about Free Markets made after your posts so I wont re-iterate their points.

But you're statement has two fatal flaws.

1) Facebook can change their TOS whenever they want and you have no choice in the matter. The agreement you entered into with Facebook/Twitter was that they are acting as a platform and they are NOT liable for your actions.
That was the agreement rendered. The moment they decided that they want to be a publisher, ie they decide what is and isn't allowed on their platform, they have nullified the agreement you the TOS you have with them. They cannot force new TOS on you after they've broken their end of the agreement.

That's not how TOS, EULA, or Contracts work. When a party breaks the contract they can not re-write the contract anyway they want and force the other party to agree to it. Now they can modify those their TOS to change from Platform to Publisher if they want. But they cannot do it retroactively, and they can't do it after they've already made the change to how they process user data.

You can argue that you no longer have to use the site, but they still have your data on their servers, which they will not delete if you request them to. I know people who have done this very thing. They didn't like TOS changes, and requested Facebook delete their data since Facebook unilaterally wants to change the contract.
Facebook said no.

In any real world example outside of a multi-billion dollar company, a regular civilian would win that case in court. Facebook is so well connected in Washington and has so much money they can ignore the law and do whatever they want, knowing their users are powerless to do anything against them.
Why do you think Facebook is only operating against small time people?

The second flaw in your reasoning is around the Publisher issue which others have touched on.
The whole point of the protections around platforms operating as neutral forums is that they cannot or do not want to monitor their users activity. Liability for user action lies with the user. The moment Facebook, Twitter, AUP, whatever... decides "We are going to selectively allow Left Leaning Social Justice Marxist content but not Right Leaning Conservative Libretarian content they are acting as a publisher.
To be clear... They have the right to make that decision and to do that. But the moment they do that, they are not longer a Neutral Platform and they do not get the protections Neutral Platforms have.
They are free to choose which they want to be... however there are consequences to that action.

If Facebook wants to be a publisher... fine. I'm all for that. And the next time someone uploads kiddie porn, the FBI can go in and arrest FaceBook staff and seize facebook assetts.
Facebook knows this and doesn't want this. They want to remain a platform, but they also want to be able to decide what can and can't be on their platform.

They can't have it both ways. Right now... they are treating their users like they are publisher, while interacting with the government as if they are a platform.
They can't be both... they have to pick one.

Also, keep in mind that these sites are sitting on and run only through the research, development, and funding of the public through tax dollars. Facebook is free to deploy their own Internet where they control the content allowed on it. But the moment they use the public internet, they fall under Federal Jurisdiction and must abide by Federal law on these issues.

(05-04-2019 10:22 AM)king king Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 01:57 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  **** all of those people. They only divide us.

They only divide anyone that gives them bandwidth in their own life.

Same as the KKK or BLM.

It is all about what you CHOOSE to tune into.

Same as porn or gangster rap or any of a number of other questionable things our society allows to exist.

I'm for anyone being able to express any view they want.

I did post some news articles that some leaders of the New Black Panther and Antifa got banned from Facebook, Twitter and Youtube. I reported a video of New Black Panthers shouting on the streets calling for the death to all Whities. I did report to the social media companies about hate or spreading Fake News with conspiracy theories. Laura Loomer is one that I have reported because of the Vegas mass shooting that upset allot of people no matter what party they are affiliated with. Alex Jones caused one of the Sandy Hooks' parent who killed himself because some of Jones' followers been calling, sending mail and emails that are death threats. It is why you should never spread conspiracy theories. Losing a child is one thing, but getting a lot of death threats saying their child never died could send a parent of a dead child over the edge.

These social media sites do have it in their terms for like over 10 years now that these things are prohibited. The Constitution prohibits the US Government to take away your fee speech. Since Facebook, Twitter, MySpace, Youtube, etc are not government entities, and they can ban anybody they like who violates their terms. Like anybody that got banned from this forum violated the terms on this forum. If these social media loses becuase of Trump? That means people who have been banned from this forum and others have to be unbanned.

(05-05-2019 07:49 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  That means people who have been banned from this forum and others have to be unbanned.

Nope. CSNBBS has not been called a public space by the Supreme Court. The Federal court has not ruled that Trump's CSNBBS account is a public space and that no one can be denied access to it. Those claims change things.

CSNBBS is not used by nor able to be used to communicate with Political Officials.
Businesses do not require you to have a CSNBBS account to interact with them or apply to a job.

You're making an apples to watermelons comparison.

Remember when liberals would've been aghast at the idea of large corporations controlling what information can be seen on a medium that's a primary source of new and info for a growing number of people?

I do.

(05-05-2019 09:01 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Remember when liberals would've been aghast at the idea of large corporations controlling what information can be seen on a medium that's a primary source of new and info for a growing number of people?

I do.

Truth about the Far Left... everything is about Power.
As long as they control something they are in favor of it. The moment its not under their control they are against it.

The Far Left was very anti corporation and wanted gov regulation to limit the power of these companies... right up until those companies agreed with them. Now they want to make sure the companies can do whatever they want without government regulation.

They crave power. They crave wielding power to control people.
It's the darkest of impulses of mankind... and they cherish it.

I never claimed to be a lawyer or to know what the answer is here.

Comparing Facebook to a power utility, gas utility, healthcare company, or any other company that provides for an absolute need is asinine. It's literally apples to moon rocks. You dont need Facebook for anything other than leisure. I've yet to see any company require someone to have a Facebook account for a job.

Like I said already - delete your account if you dont agree with the way they run their company.

(05-06-2019 01:53 PM)king king Wrote:  I never claimed to be a lawyer or to know what the answer is here.

Comparing Facebook to a power utility, gas utility, healthcare company, or any other company that provides for an absolute need is asinine. It's literally apples to moon rocks. You dont need Facebook for anything other than leisure. I've yet to see any company require someone to have a Facebook account for a job.

Like I said already - delete your account if you dont agree with the way they run their company.

Here is the issue. Facebook and the others claim to be immune from liability because they merely provide a hosting service, they don't control content. When they start controlling content, they jeopardize that liability immunity. And when the controls appear to be grossly one-sided, there is a real issue.

I don't have a solution, just wanted to clarify the issue.

(05-06-2019 01:53 PM)king king Wrote:  Comparing Facebook to a power utility, gas utility, healthcare company, or any other company that provides for an absolute need is asinine.

How?

Where does this logic of "de-platforming" end? Articulate it. I won't hold me breath, because you can't. You don't need a cell phone or internet service to survive. And even if you do, build your own towers and launch your own satellites, bigot. It's the free market.

(05-06-2019 01:53 PM)king king Wrote:  You dont need Facebook for anything other than leisure.

This is the problem. You along with all the boomers in congress simply don't have the slightest clue of what you're talking about. It's why we get tweets from the president talking about how twitter has "taken people off the list" and how they can't "sign on".

Facebook is a $500 billion company, but you don't understand or see any difference from them and this message board. Look up what fortune 500 companies pay to facebook every year to connect their message to their prospective clients. They have quietly put bought up nearly 100 companies over the past few years. Just like amazon, google, and apple, they are transitioning from just a tech company to a conglomerate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/19/busin...erate.html

They are currently working with the giants in finance and payment processing to create their own cryptocurrency. Let's say it catches on and becomes what people thought bitcoin or ripple were going to be. Well, the thing about crypto is that it is supposed to be decentralized, but zuckerberg and bezos wants to be in control of everything you buy and sell, and even IF you can buy and sell. If amazon labels you a thought criminal and you can't get your book on their platform, it might as well not even exist.

(05-06-2019 06:12 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(05-06-2019 01:53 PM)king king Wrote:  Comparing Facebook to a power utility, gas utility, healthcare company, or any other company that provides for an absolute need is asinine.

How?

Where does this logic of "de-platforming" end? Articulate it. I won't hold me breath, because you can't. You don't need a cell phone or internet service or TV service to survive. And even if you do, build your own towers and launch your own satellites, bigot. It's the free market.

(05-06-2019 01:53 PM)king king Wrote:  You dont need Facebook for anything other than leisure.

This is the problem. You along with all the boomers in congress simply don't have the slightest clue of what you're talking about. It's why we get tweets from the president talking about how twitter has "taken people off the list" and how they can't "sign on".

Facebook is a $500 billion company, but you don't understand or see any difference from them and this message board. Look up what fortune 500 companies pay to facebook every year to connect their message to their prospective clients. They have quietly put bought up nearly 100 companies over the past few years. Just like amazon, google, and apple, they are transitioning from just a tech company to a conglomerate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/19/busin...erate.html

They are currently working with the giants in finance and payment processing to create their own cryptocurrency. Let's say it catches on and becomes what people thought bitcoin or ripple were going to be. Well, the thing about crypto is that it is supposed to be decentralized, but zuckerberg and bezos wants to be in control of everything you buy and sell, and even IF you can buy and sell. If amazon labels you a thought criminal and you can't get your book on their platform, it might as well not even exist.

Trump should have been banned from Twitter long time ago since he violated the TOS agreement that he agreed to. You are not allow to slam, harass, trolling, hate, vulgar and obscene language which he have been doing. Those terms have been there since the sites rolled out. You signed your rights away because you agreed to their terms. The issue is nobody reads the terms, and they just click agree without reading.

(05-04-2019 01:57 AM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  **** all of those people. They only divide us.

I agree, the democrats are sowers of dissent and misinformation with the ultimate aim of dividing us, absolutely.

(05-04-2019 12:50 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 12:42 PM)king king Wrote:  Snoop is a known gang affiliate. As was Nipsey Hustle.

Yet you have Obama tweeting how sorry he was about the death of a known gang member. And thousands of folks sharing their sorrow over him being killed on FB.

Seems obvious to me that if you associate with killers and things you run the risk of being murdered or coming to some other bad end. Quit glamorizing bad actors.

Society has a problem. If enough people just quit engaging these entities would have no company.

I challenge you all to just quit it.

ok boomer

The left already controls the media, the universities, hollywood, etc. The right broke through the cracks and used social media to get Trump elected, and now they're cracking down and taking that over, as well.

I'm sure we'll do well electorally in the future, when the left has a monopoly on instantaneous communication with their hundreds of millions of followers on social media, and we're relegated to email lists and stuffing leaflets in mailboxes.

He's not a boomer...

(05-06-2019 06:12 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(05-06-2019 01:53 PM)king king Wrote:  Comparing Facebook to a power utility, gas utility, healthcare company, or any other company that provides for an absolute need is asinine.

How?

Where does this logic of "de-platforming" end? Articulate it. I won't hold me breath, because you can't. You don't need a cell phone or internet service to survive. And even if you do, build your own towers and launch your own satellites, bigot. It's the free market.

(05-06-2019 01:53 PM)king king Wrote:  You dont need Facebook for anything other than leisure.

This is the problem. You along with all the boomers in congress simply don't have the slightest clue of what you're talking about. It's why we get tweets from the president talking about how twitter has "taken people off the list" and how they can't "sign on".

Facebook is a $500 billion company, but you don't understand or see any difference from them and this message board. Look up what fortune 500 companies pay to facebook every year to connect their message to their prospective clients. They have quietly put bought up nearly 100 companies over the past few years. Just like amazon, google, and apple, they are transitioning from just a tech company to a conglomerate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/19/busin...erate.html

They are currently working with the giants in finance and payment processing to create their own cryptocurrency. Let's say it catches on and becomes what people thought bitcoin or ripple were going to be. Well, the thing about crypto is that it is supposed to be decentralized, but zuckerberg and bezos wants to be in control of everything you buy and sell, and even IF you can buy and sell. If amazon labels you a thought criminal and you can't get your book on their platform, it might as well not even exist.

You quoted the how. I've not been on FB in well over a year now and look at me buying stuff and posting stuff on the internet. If my local power company treated me the same I wouldn't have electricity. Facebook does not even begin to equate to a power company, a healthcare provider, or any of the other necessities you mentioned.

Your rationale doesn't hold water, man. None of your court cases or Senate hearings are standing in the way of getting back on it.

If you don't like their product or the way they do business you have a choice to quit it. Period. No one is forcing you to use Facebook to transact your day to day.

I'm on record saying I disagree with their rationale. I think it's an issue as Owl said. However, I also know that the BEST way any one of us can hurt them is by simply tuning the fruck out.

You can call me whatever name you want but that won't change that fact one bit.

Way to go Kronke. Negative rep me for disagreeing with you.

Notice YOU are the one calling me a bigot and boomer (WTH dos that even mean...I'm 40 years old) when all I've done is point out that all you gotta do is turn it off.

If the neg rep isn't for when a boomer says boomer things, then I don't know why it's there.

(05-06-2019 01:53 PM)king king Wrote:  I never claimed to be a lawyer or to know what the answer is here.

Comparing Facebook to a power utility, gas utility, healthcare company, or any other company that provides for an absolute need is asinine. It's literally apples to moon rocks. You dont need Facebook for anything other than leisure. I've yet to see any company require someone to have a Facebook account for a job.

Like I said already - delete your account if you dont agree with the way they run their company.

I think most of us agree with the principle of what you are saying, but in this context and situation its not a realistic response at all. There are lot of cases where we can simply not give certain people our business and have real viable options. That is not the case at all when we are talking about the flow if information, news and thought. There are not viable options with platforms even in the same universe.

The vast majority of Americans get their information and news from these places, and they have a massive monopoly on the flow of information now.

If you can convince 100 million Americans to leave Facebook and a few other platforms before the next election cycle then by all means do it. But I think you know as well as everyone else its not going to happen.

I've never had a facebook account and I never will, but I'm also not turning a blind eye to the overwhelming power these companies suddenly have on the flow of information, news and thought.

(05-06-2019 11:13 PM)Kronke Wrote:  So, what's next? What differentiates banks, payment processors, domain registrars, food delivery services, and P2P hospitality marketplaces, from phone and internet service providers?

But bakers have to bake you a wedding cake?

On the subject of bankers and social media...check this out https://summit.news/2019/05/06/forget-fa...mwD30DS3Ww

On matters where these companies are cutting off access to what amounts to a utility or another company that is a basic necessity - ISP's or banking - what does the justice system say in that instance? Surely the courts are being used?

Again, big difference between FB and a bank or ISP. Literally orders of magnitude.

FB doesn't control the flow of info - there are alternatives literally ALL over the internet. This is one.

They don't control the flow of news - there's literally an entire internet filled with sites for news. Turn FB or Twitter off and you may have to dig more but it's all out there. If people would turn it off they would no longer control anything.

Comparing them to places you get access to the internet or to money is not a direct comparison.

Also wtf is a boomer? Some word you made up?

If you neg rep for making statements on here then I can neg rep as well.

Case in point

Imagine the people controlling what happens when they try to go cashless! Egad!