Musicowl1965
2nd String
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I Root For: Rice
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RE: Silver Glove Game 2
(05-02-2019 04:10 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote: (05-02-2019 11:14 AM)Throwing Chade Wrote: (05-02-2019 10:12 AM)Musicowl1965 Wrote: (05-02-2019 09:37 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote: (05-02-2019 09:28 AM)Musicowl1965 Wrote: FYI there was only 1 BB (that could have easily been called a 3rd strike) and 1 WP the previous inning that resulted in the tie runs scoring. Also, 3 weeks ago I spoke with a player (not a pitcher) about the balls in the dirt as some of our pitchers throw this more than others. I was told those are called from the bench. In other words when you see a CB that hits the ground at or before home plate these, in most cases, are called locations trying to get the batter to swing. Usually called in 0-2 or 1-2 counts. So, while technically a WP these are planned and executed that way. This was a favorite pitch of Coach Graham's and one he loved to call in the past. Jon Duplantier, Glenn Otto, Dane Myers and others all used this pitch and yes were technically WP's when thrown. Jon in particular has stated that this pitch, spike CB, was what led to a great number of his strikeouts and credits Coach Graham and Hallmark for insisting that he develop the pitch. Again, some context to what you see vs what was called and executed.
Bull Pen has shown flashes this season but consistency is what is needed. I still have confidence that it will all come together with a good run in the conf tournament.
"Technically wild pitches"? You've got to be kidding. And a spike CB does not mean a ball in the dirt. There's a difference between call for a breaking ball out of the strikezone, and calling for one in the dirt. Canterino often throw such breaking balls when ahead in the count, but he doesn't throw wild pitches. Stop trying to make excuses for the inexcusable. And, BTW, all of Gayle's wild pitches were not on breaking balls. He bounces his FBs on occassion, as well.
A spike CB absolutely DOES MEAN A BALL IN THE DIRT!!! Hence the "spike" name. What else are you "spiking" other than the dirt or the plate. It has to be on the plate or before the plate to be effective. Do you watch any MLB games? The spike is a quality pitch and it is almost ALWAYS in the dirt. Coach Graham almost required it be in the dirt!!!
McCullers throw it, Schertzer throws it, Synegard (sp?) throws it and others. The idea is you convince the batter its a FB and he starts his swing and the ball comes nowhere near the strike zone. Canterino throws a slider (a really good one BTW). Way different pitch than a called spike. FB's in the dirt is another story but can be effective though likely not planned.
These are not "excuses" just context when you say things on this board that are factually inaccurate as you have no basis or understanding for what you say at times. Also, I'm not one to believe (before you say it) that you had to play the game to understand the game. I really love your passion and support of all things Rice especially Rice baseball and I'm sure it is your passion that drives your frustration at times. Maybe it is the nature of this board that it is really just a placed to vent frustrations but it would be nice, in the future, if you (myself included) would make an effort to read and evaluate what others say on this site and not take a difference of opinion as a slight to yours. It is merely that, a difference of opinion which in some case may be based on more information thus forming the difference.
Keep up the passion Walt it's better than the alternative!!
A spike curve ball is a type of curve ball. You move your index finger back to the knuckle to get more spin and more break. If someone "spikes" a curve ball that can be referring to it was thrown wildly into the ground. Think of a shank in golf. You can spike a fastball, curve, change up or whatever. But a "spike curve ball" is a specific type of pitch. A chase curve is when you throw a curve that appears to be a strike to the batter to then wind up out of the strike zone or even bounce. When they are thrown short to the point where the catcher then it may result in a wild pitch. But a 0-2 curve in the dirt is not the same as calling for a wild pitch.
Thank you. A spiked curve ball (also know in some circles as a hammer curve) is a 12 - 6 curve ball, as opposed to the more traditional 11-5 or the Zito-eque 10-4 or 9-3 curve ball. As Throwing Chade stated above, the grip is different as is the release point. Wayne started teaching the spiked curveball, as opposed to knuckle curve (Niemann, Townsend) or slider, as a primary breaking pitch used by Rice pitchers some 7 - 10 years ago. I think Lemond was the first to incorporate it, and was followed by Dittman, Otto and Moss. Duplantier's primary breaking ball was the slider, but he added the spiked curveball to his arsenal late in his Rice career. I don't think Canterino throw's a spiked curveball, and Gayle's curveball is more of an 11-5. (I believe Eddie Degerman threw the spiked curve, but he brought it with him when he transferred from UC-I. As Tiki noted, so too did Humber, but I don't believe Wayne started teach it until a number of years later. I don't recall any of our pitchers in the 2006 - 2011 period throwing it. Duffy has/had a exceptional curveball, but I don't believe it was a spiked curveball. Berry, Sims, Kubitza, Cingrani didn't throw it either.)
Throwing a spiked curve ball does not mean throwing it in the dirt. That's B.S.
Again, you seem to take undue offense with those that disagree as noted by your “B.S.” comment. You really need to do some video research (as I have done) at minimum to see how a spike CB can, not always, be executed. Also, a spike CB and a knuckle CB have virtually the same grip. Previous post referenced a video. The knuckle name comes from the index finger knuckle (sometimes the index fingernail) on the seam or inside the seam. The spike results from the release point and or spin rate as noted by Chade. Agree, not always executed well as others have noted but intent is still to “spike it”. Where this occurs is absolutely a function of execution.
I guess I’ll drop this now as once emotions get too high then intelligent conversation usually ceases. It becomes more about winning the argument versus open minded discussion.
Go Owls and let’s sweep WKY.
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