(05-04-2019 06:02 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 07:02 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(05-03-2019 01:12 PM)panite Wrote:  

(05-03-2019 12:06 PM)AntiG Wrote:  if this were to ever happen I would LOL so hard

The divorce happened because of football vs basketball. Forcing the BE back into football but with inferior programs in both basketball and football (compared to what it was before the programs left for other conferences and then the split) would be hilarious.

In other words, not happening.

Agreed especially with MAC schools. The Catholic schools walked away from OLD BE partners UConn, USF, Cinn, and Temple. They are not going to partner with MAC schools in any scenarios going forward.

I hate to break it to you but back in 2010 when the realignment wheels were turning but well before the C7 formation I know the AD at my MAC school was keeping an eye on what was going to happen to Marquette and DePaul when this all shakes out.

Possibly a formation of a new northern based CUSA 1.0 type league if the opportunity was there.

MAC schools were keeping an eye, sure. I’ve also kept a lifelong eye on Lindsey Lohan. If it’s not mutual, it’s meaningless.

I will admit I was surprised to hear the AD say he was looking at potentially a spot in CUSA or potentially doing something with the BE basketball schools should they defect/depart. There was no interest in "stepping up" for football like NIU proposed with its XII bid.

Of course for DePaul and Marquette it would be out of necessity to have to realign regionally with some of the MAC schools. St. Louis while cool on joining the MVC had some discussions about joining the MAC in 2005 when CUSA 1.0 broke up. They would probably be in that mix in the event the western C7 schools were somehow left behind.

As I'm pointing out regionally and academically many MAC schools would be a comfortable fit with the BE as its composed today. Arenas in most cases would be large enough for it too.

(05-05-2019 07:29 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 06:02 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-04-2019 07:02 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(05-03-2019 01:12 PM)panite Wrote:  

(05-03-2019 12:06 PM)AntiG Wrote:  if this were to ever happen I would LOL so hard

The divorce happened because of football vs basketball. Forcing the BE back into football but with inferior programs in both basketball and football (compared to what it was before the programs left for other conferences and then the split) would be hilarious.

In other words, not happening.

Agreed especially with MAC schools. The Catholic schools walked away from OLD BE partners UConn, USF, Cinn, and Temple. They are not going to partner with MAC schools in any scenarios going forward.

I hate to break it to you but back in 2010 when the realignment wheels were turning but well before the C7 formation I know the AD at my MAC school was keeping an eye on what was going to happen to Marquette and DePaul when this all shakes out.

Possibly a formation of a new northern based CUSA 1.0 type league if the opportunity was there.

MAC schools were keeping an eye, sure. I’ve also kept a lifelong eye on Lindsey Lohan. If it’s not mutual, it’s meaningless.

I will admit I was surprised to hear the AD say he was looking at potentially a spot in CUSA or potentially doing something with the BE basketball schools should they defect/depart. There was no interest in "stepping up" for football like NIU proposed with its XII bid.

Of course for DePaul and Marquette it would be out of necessity to have to realign regionally with some of the MAC schools. St. Louis while cool on joining the MVC had some discussions about joining the MAC in 2005 when CUSA 1.0 broke up. They would probably be in that mix in the event the western C7 schools were somehow left behind.

As I'm pointing out regionally and academically many MAC schools would be a comfortable fit with the BE as its composed today. Arenas in most cases would be large enough for it too.

I'm sure the MAC were open to taking in Marquette and DePaul but those two were always sticking with the 5 eastern catholic schools.

(05-03-2019 11:36 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(05-02-2019 10:36 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Nice geographic divisions. Ohio would have to go east as its located in the Alleghany Plateau

BE Atlantic
Georgetown $1.77b
Buffalo $725m
St. John's $716m
Villanova $711m
Ohio $569m
Massachusetts $326m
Seton Hall $242m
Old Dominion $240m
Providence $213m

BE Central
Marquette $668m
DePaul $595m
Creighton $568m
Miami $535m
Toledo $455m
Western Mich. $405m
Butler $174m
Xavier $169m
Northern Ill. $74m

It's not just Northern Illinois that would be a poor fit academically; it's a majority of the league.

Academic Rankings - Big East
Butler - #1, Regional Midwest (tied)
Creighton - #1, Regional Midwest (tied)*
DePaul - #119, National
Georgetown - #22, National
Marquette - #89, National
Providence - #2, Regional North
Seton Hall - #119, National
St. John's - #152, National
Villanova - #49, National
Xavier - #8, Regional Midwest
*Creighton just got elevated to a National University this week.

Academic Rankings - MAC
Akron - #230-301, National
Ball State - #171, National
Bowling Green - #215, National
Buffalo - #89, National
Central Michigan - #205, National
Eastern Michigan - #230-301, National
Kent State - #191, National
Miami - #96, National
Northern Illinois - #230-301, National
Ohio - #171, National
Toledo - #230-301, National
Western Michigan - #205, National

Seven of the Big East schools are national universities, each of whom are academically ranked higher than ten of the MAC schools. The only MAC institutions that would fall within the current Big East range would be Buffalo and Miami.

Disregarding the lack of institutional fit (and I am not even considering football programs, here - just metropolitan markets and private schools), these two leagues are listening to different music at completely different dances; they are hardly a good-fit as dance partners.

Georgetown is a top tier school. But the remainder of the BE has traditionally been regarded in the mid tier.

Included in the proposed BE callups are WMU (Kalamazoo), Toledo, Buffalo, UMass (statewide), Ohio (statewide), NIU (metro Chicago), ODU (Tidewater). Miami is metro Dayton/Cincinnati. These particular additions are metro oriented.

I'm not calling up CMU, EMU, Ball St, BG, Akron, Kent from the MAC to join the Big East. Its the upper half of the MAC I am talking about.

Its also important to think about academics from the standpoint of what programs these schools offer. Most of the proposed callups have a significant STEM component. Most of the BE schools to be honest don't and they can set the rigor as low as they want as private schools.

Taking this back to the idea the BE is a sacrosanct addition to the P5 in the event of a split that is a bunch of straight up BS. They are not on the level of the private schools of the ACC, a company the P5 likes to keep.

BE is mostly mid tier, regional universities. You can throw out the USWNR rankings designations. Designated national on that is meaningless. Its where a school is on the academic food chain. Some are excellent mid tier schools, others are poor excuses for them.

EMU is by most accounts the lowest rated academic school in the MAC, a weak mid tier university.

But I'd still put them ahead of half the BE academically by the level of curriculum of their academic colleges.

Kittonhead and Kit-Cat are the only 2 people I’ve ever heard on the internet say Saint Louis wanted to join the MAC.

(05-05-2019 09:35 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Kittonhead and Kit-Cat are the only 2 people I’ve ever heard on the internet say Saint Louis wanted to join the MAC.

Don’t forget Airport KC too!!!! He’s got one more sn but I can’t remember it. Yet the mods have done nothing............

(05-05-2019 08:06 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(05-03-2019 11:36 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(05-02-2019 10:36 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Nice geographic divisions. Ohio would have to go east as its located in the Alleghany Plateau

BE Atlantic
Georgetown $1.77b
Buffalo $725m
St. John's $716m
Villanova $711m
Ohio $569m
Massachusetts $326m
Seton Hall $242m
Old Dominion $240m
Providence $213m

BE Central
Marquette $668m
DePaul $595m
Creighton $568m
Miami $535m
Toledo $455m
Western Mich. $405m
Butler $174m
Xavier $169m
Northern Ill. $74m

It's not just Northern Illinois that would be a poor fit academically; it's a majority of the league.

Academic Rankings - Big East
Butler - #1, Regional Midwest (tied)
Creighton - #1, Regional Midwest (tied)*
DePaul - #119, National
Georgetown - #22, National
Marquette - #89, National
Providence - #2, Regional North
Seton Hall - #119, National
St. John's - #152, National
Villanova - #49, National
Xavier - #8, Regional Midwest
*Creighton just got elevated to a National University this week.

Academic Rankings - MAC
Akron - #230-301, National
Ball State - #171, National
Bowling Green - #215, National
Buffalo - #89, National
Central Michigan - #205, National
Eastern Michigan - #230-301, National
Kent State - #191, National
Miami - #96, National
Northern Illinois - #230-301, National
Ohio - #171, National
Toledo - #230-301, National
Western Michigan - #205, National

Seven of the Big East schools are national universities, each of whom are academically ranked higher than ten of the MAC schools. The only MAC institutions that would fall within the current Big East range would be Buffalo and Miami.

Disregarding the lack of institutional fit (and I am not even considering football programs, here - just metropolitan markets and private schools), these two leagues are listening to different music at completely different dances; they are hardly a good-fit as dance partners.

Georgetown is a top tier school. But the remainder of the BE has traditionally been regarded in the mid tier.

Included in the proposed BE callups are WMU (Kalamazoo), Toledo, Buffalo, UMass (statewide), Ohio (statewide), NIU (metro Chicago), ODU (Tidewater). Miami is metro Dayton/Cincinnati. These particular additions are metro oriented.

I'm not calling up CMU, EMU, Ball St, BG, Akron, Kent from the MAC to join the Big East. Its the upper half of the MAC I am talking about.

Its also important to think about academics from the standpoint of what programs these schools offer. Most of the proposed callups have a significant STEM component. Most of the BE schools to be honest don't and they can set the rigor as low as they want as private schools.

Taking this back to the idea the BE is a sacrosanct addition to the P5 in the event of a split that is a bunch of straight up BS. They are not on the level of the private schools of the ACC, a company the P5 likes to keep.

BE is mostly mid tier, regional universities. You can throw out the USWNR rankings designations. Designated national on that is meaningless. Its where a school is on the academic food chain. Some are excellent mid tier schools, others are poor excuses for them.

Don't use USNWR rankings. Got it. Want to use Forbes' rankings instead (https://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list/)? There is an even more glaring separation in academic rankings.

Butler - #237, National
Creighton - #222, National
DePaul - #243, National
Georgetown - #12, National
Marquette - #175, National
Providence - #162, National
Seton Hall - #287, National
St. John's - #215, National
Villanova - #70, National
Xavier - #272, National

Akron - Unlisted
Ball State - #503, National
Bowling Green - #604, National
Buffalo - #189, National
Central Michigan - #614, National
Eastern Michigan - Unlisted
Kent State - #633, National
Miami - #159, National
Northern Illinois - #603, National
Ohio - #416, National
Toledo - #619, National
Western Michigan - #577, National

As much as you wish to create a line of symmetry between the Big East and the MAC, very few common traits exist. The Big East, in its present form enjoys many positive and beneficial relationships with P5 conferences, and many of its member schools. You can continue to argue for hypothetical situations otherwise, but it does not change either conference's outlook moving forward.

(05-05-2019 03:33 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(05-05-2019 08:06 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(05-03-2019 11:36 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(05-02-2019 10:36 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Nice geographic divisions. Ohio would have to go east as its located in the Alleghany Plateau

BE Atlantic
Georgetown $1.77b
Buffalo $725m
St. John's $716m
Villanova $711m
Ohio $569m
Massachusetts $326m
Seton Hall $242m
Old Dominion $240m
Providence $213m

BE Central
Marquette $668m
DePaul $595m
Creighton $568m
Miami $535m
Toledo $455m
Western Mich. $405m
Butler $174m
Xavier $169m
Northern Ill. $74m

It's not just Northern Illinois that would be a poor fit academically; it's a majority of the league.

Academic Rankings - Big East
Butler - #1, Regional Midwest (tied)
Creighton - #1, Regional Midwest (tied)*
DePaul - #119, National
Georgetown - #22, National
Marquette - #89, National
Providence - #2, Regional North
Seton Hall - #119, National
St. John's - #152, National
Villanova - #49, National
Xavier - #8, Regional Midwest
*Creighton just got elevated to a National University this week.

Academic Rankings - MAC
Akron - #230-301, National
Ball State - #171, National
Bowling Green - #215, National
Buffalo - #89, National
Central Michigan - #205, National
Eastern Michigan - #230-301, National
Kent State - #191, National
Miami - #96, National
Northern Illinois - #230-301, National
Ohio - #171, National
Toledo - #230-301, National
Western Michigan - #205, National

Seven of the Big East schools are national universities, each of whom are academically ranked higher than ten of the MAC schools. The only MAC institutions that would fall within the current Big East range would be Buffalo and Miami.

Disregarding the lack of institutional fit (and I am not even considering football programs, here - just metropolitan markets and private schools), these two leagues are listening to different music at completely different dances; they are hardly a good-fit as dance partners.

Georgetown is a top tier school. But the remainder of the BE has traditionally been regarded in the mid tier.

Included in the proposed BE callups are WMU (Kalamazoo), Toledo, Buffalo, UMass (statewide), Ohio (statewide), NIU (metro Chicago), ODU (Tidewater). Miami is metro Dayton/Cincinnati. These particular additions are metro oriented.

I'm not calling up CMU, EMU, Ball St, BG, Akron, Kent from the MAC to join the Big East. Its the upper half of the MAC I am talking about.

Its also important to think about academics from the standpoint of what programs these schools offer. Most of the proposed callups have a significant STEM component. Most of the BE schools to be honest don't and they can set the rigor as low as they want as private schools.

Taking this back to the idea the BE is a sacrosanct addition to the P5 in the event of a split that is a bunch of straight up BS. They are not on the level of the private schools of the ACC, a company the P5 likes to keep.

BE is mostly mid tier, regional universities. You can throw out the USWNR rankings designations. Designated national on that is meaningless. Its where a school is on the academic food chain. Some are excellent mid tier schools, others are poor excuses for them.

Don't use USNWR rankings. Got it. Want to use Forbes' rankings instead (https://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list/)? There is an even more glaring separation in academic rankings.

Butler - #237, National
Creighton - #222, National
DePaul - #243, National
Georgetown - #12, National
Marquette - #175, National
Providence - #162, National
Seton Hall - #287, National
St. John's - #215, National
Villanova - #70, National
Xavier - #272, National

Akron - Unlisted
Ball State - #503, National
Bowling Green - #604, National
Buffalo - #189, National
Central Michigan - #614, National
Eastern Michigan - Unlisted
Kent State - #633, National
Miami - #159, National
Northern Illinois - #603, National
Ohio - #416, National
Toledo - #619, National
Western Michigan - #577, National

As much as you wish to create a line of symmetry between the Big East and the MAC, very few common traits exist. The Big East, in its present form enjoys many positive and beneficial relationships with P5 conferences, and many of its member schools. You can continue to argue for hypothetical situations otherwise, but it does not change either conference's outlook moving forward.

THIS ^^^^^ [b]

(04-27-2019 11:08 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Army would have to come all sport to make the 8th FBS spot. I don't think they'd leave their rivals in the Patriot.

No reason for Army to leave the Patriot League.

(05-06-2019 10:47 AM)BeatNavy Wrote:  

(04-27-2019 11:08 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Army would have to come all sport to make the 8th FBS spot. I don't think they'd leave their rivals in the Patriot.

No reason for Army to leave the Patriot League.

No reason to leave the Patriot League or join any league for FB period. Army plays across the country for Academy recruiting purposes. They play at least 1 P5, the other 2 Academies, 1 or 2 FCS teams, 1 or 2 independents, and 1 or 2 teams from each of the G5 conferences with a heavy concentration of team in the Midwest, South, and Southwest. They are just fine where they are as an independent.

I think it must be Russian bots that start wacka-doodle threads like this.

Big East would obviously add:
- Universidad de Santiago Chile.
- Reykjavik State (Iceland).
- Reykjavik Tech (Iceland).
- Eyjafjallajokull School of Mines (Iceland)
- Oslo State (rivalry with Reykjavik State goes back to A.D. 874... take *that* Harvard-Yale!... the teams play for "Olaffsdottir of Stykkisholmur", which is pretty much like Floyd of Rosedale).
- Goteborg School of Design.
- La Scola di Concattedrale della Presentazione della Beata Vergine Maria di Reggio Calabria... "i Castori Combattenti...!"
- Creedence Clearwater Revival.

I know what you guys will argue... unless a teleporter is invented, there's no way that La Scola di Concattedrale della Presentazione della Beata Vergine Maria di Reggio Calabria will be invited.

(05-06-2019 11:12 PM)billyjack Wrote:  I think it must be Russian bots that start wacka-doodle threads like this.

Big East would obviously add:
- Universidad de Santiago Chile.
- Reykjavik State (Iceland).
- Reykjavik Tech (Iceland).
- Eyjafjallajokull School of Mines (Iceland)
- Oslo State (rivalry with Reykjavik State goes back to A.D. 874... take *that* Harvard-Yale!... the teams play for "Olaffsdottir of Stykkisholmur", which is pretty much like Floyd of Rosedale).
- Goteborg School of Design.
- La Scola di Concattedrale della Presentazione della Beata Vergine Maria di Reggio Calabria... "i Castori Combattenti...!"
- Creedence Clearwater Revival.

I know what you guys will argue... unless a teleporter is invented, there's no way that La Scola di Concattedrale della Presentazione della Beata Vergine Maria di Reggio Calabria will be invited.

(05-05-2019 07:29 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Of course for DePaul and Marquette it would be out of necessity to have to realign regionally with some of the MAC schools. St. Louis while cool on joining the MVC had some discussions about joining the MAC in 2005 when CUSA 1.0 broke up. They would probably be in that mix in the event the western C7 schools were somehow left behind.

As I'm pointing out regionally and academically many MAC schools would be a comfortable fit with the BE as its composed today. Arenas in most cases would be large enough for it too.

Once again, you are inaccurate with your hypothetical conclusions that ignore past history and present facts.

Marquette was independent until 1989. Since that time, they have been in the Midwestern Collegiate Conference (now Horizon League), the Great Midwest Conference and the Big East. DePaul, minus the affiliation with the MCC, has had a similar path. Minus a three-year window from 1946-1949 (Butler), no Big East team has ever shared a conference affiliation with any current MAC program. If there is so much symmetry and similarities between these programs as you suggest, why have they never shared a conference affiliation with one another? Food for thought.

Saint Louis left C-USA in 2005 in order to join the A-10 because Marquette/DePaul both got called up (and the league was losing all of its non-football members) and because it desired to be in a more East Coast-focused league. They may have had discussions with the MAC, but there would have been little-to-no chance of that partnership ever materializing.

And, to your final point about arenas, there are only three MAC programs that come close to the same range of Big East arena capacity (~ 10, 000): NIU, Ohio and Ball State. EMU can hold 9k, but they notoriously had under 400 fans at the CBI game a few years ago (which drew national attention). No MAC program is in the same ballpark as the Big East programs attendance/capacity. Heck, the MAC averaged under 3k per home game last year, compared to the 10k average the Big East regularly gets.

If there ever was an implosion of the Big East, I can assure you that the Midwestern programs would not group-together with the MAC; it would likely just extend invitations to schools it already has a history and past affiliation with (Dayton, Saint Louis, St. Joseph, etc.).

Like I said. The Big East and other non-football schools will be left behind. That includes Little Rock, UTA and Wichita State.

(05-08-2019 03:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Like I said. The Big East and other non-football schools will be left behind. That includes Little Rock, UTA and Wichita State.

Wichita plays in a conference of FB schools.

(05-08-2019 07:36 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(05-08-2019 03:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Like I said. The Big East and other non-football schools will be left behind. That includes Little Rock, UTA and Wichita State.

Wichita plays in a conference of FB schools.

So do Little rock and UT Arlington, to be fair.