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cr11owl Offline
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Post: #1
Chik-fil-A
The on campus after hours food option “the Hoot” announced today that they will no longer serve Chik-fil-A because “we believe our values, as a student run business, do not align with those of corporate Chik-fil-A”.

They have a captive market as the only late night food option so I doubt their sales will drop off too much, but this just seems so stupid. Not surprising with the current campus culture nationwide.
04-24-2019 12:37 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Chik-fil-A
(04-24-2019 12:37 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  The on campus after hours food option “the Hoot” announced today that they will no longer serve Chik-fil-A because “we believe our values, as a student run business, do not align with those of corporate Chik-fil-A”.

They have a captive market as the only late night food option so I doubt their sales will drop off too much, but this just seems so stupid. Not surprising with the current campus culture nationwide.

What are their values?
04-24-2019 02:35 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Chik-fil-A
(04-24-2019 02:35 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 12:37 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  The on campus after hours food option “the Hoot” announced today that they will no longer serve Chik-fil-A because “we believe our values, as a student run business, do not align with those of corporate Chik-fil-A”.

They have a captive market as the only late night food option so I doubt their sales will drop off too much, but this just seems so stupid. Not surprising with the current campus culture nationwide.

What are their values?

The freedom to decide whose business they bring on to campus!

I find the continued kerfuffles that pop up over Chick-fil-A to be stupid. Especially since they make a darn good product and run their business in a way that creates a good work environment for their employees.
04-24-2019 02:40 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Chik-fil-A
(04-24-2019 02:40 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:35 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 12:37 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  The on campus after hours food option “the Hoot” announced today that they will no longer serve Chik-fil-A because “we believe our values, as a student run business, do not align with those of corporate Chik-fil-A”.

They have a captive market as the only late night food option so I doubt their sales will drop off too much, but this just seems so stupid. Not surprising with the current campus culture nationwide.

What are their values?

The freedom to decide whose business they bring on to campus!

I find the continued kerfuffles that pop up over Chick-fil-A to be stupid. Especially since they make a darn good product and run their business in a way that creates a good work environment for their employees.

I had CFA for lunch, and agree that they have a good product and run their business well. I am always impressed by the attitude and efficiency of their teenage staff.

But we both know the values they are talking about are not the freedom to decide who to bring on campus. I suspect it is because the owners of CFA have a strong Christian ethic. If I am wrong, show me the error of my ways.

I am a capitalist. If the students want to avoid eating at CFA as a protest against (whatever), fine, they will close and move. Problem solved.

I agree they can chose what the Hoot can chose what they want to serve. I am just curious as to why they find CFA objectionable.

help me here with some real answers. Or somebody else explain it to me.
04-24-2019 02:53 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Chik-fil-A
(04-24-2019 02:53 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:40 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:35 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 12:37 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  The on campus after hours food option “the Hoot” announced today that they will no longer serve Chik-fil-A because “we believe our values, as a student run business, do not align with those of corporate Chik-fil-A”.

They have a captive market as the only late night food option so I doubt their sales will drop off too much, but this just seems so stupid. Not surprising with the current campus culture nationwide.

What are their values?

The freedom to decide whose business they bring on to campus!

I find the continued kerfuffles that pop up over Chick-fil-A to be stupid. Especially since they make a darn good product and run their business in a way that creates a good work environment for their employees.

I had CFA for lunch, and agree that they have a good product and run their business well. I am always impressed by the attitude and efficiency of their teenage staff.

But we both know the values they are talking about are not the freedom to decide who to bring on campus. I suspect it is because the owners of CFA have a strong Christian ethic. If I am wrong, show me the error of my ways.

I am a capitalist. If the students want to avoid eating at CFA as a protest against (whatever), fine, they will close and move. Problem solved.

I agree they can chose what the Hoot can chose what they want to serve. I am just curious as to why they find CFA objectionable.

help me here with some real answers. Or somebody else explain it to me.

You know why they find Chick-fil-A objectionable - it is the historical corporate support for groups that opposed same sex marriage, as well as the public statements from corporate leaders. However, I don't believe they donate to those orgs anymore and I don't see any comments entering the public realm.

So I am at a loss for why the students are making the change now. Chick-fil-A has been very silent for a while.
04-24-2019 02:58 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Chik-fil-A
(04-24-2019 02:58 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:53 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:40 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:35 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 12:37 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  The on campus after hours food option “the Hoot” announced today that they will no longer serve Chik-fil-A because “we believe our values, as a student run business, do not align with those of corporate Chik-fil-A”.

They have a captive market as the only late night food option so I doubt their sales will drop off too much, but this just seems so stupid. Not surprising with the current campus culture nationwide.

What are their values?

The freedom to decide whose business they bring on to campus!

I find the continued kerfuffles that pop up over Chick-fil-A to be stupid. Especially since they make a darn good product and run their business in a way that creates a good work environment for their employees.

I had CFA for lunch, and agree that they have a good product and run their business well. I am always impressed by the attitude and efficiency of their teenage staff.

But we both know the values they are talking about are not the freedom to decide who to bring on campus. I suspect it is because the owners of CFA have a strong Christian ethic. If I am wrong, show me the error of my ways.

I am a capitalist. If the students want to avoid eating at CFA as a protest against (whatever), fine, they will close and move. Problem solved.

I agree they can chose what the Hoot can chose what they want to serve. I am just curious as to why they find CFA objectionable.

help me here with some real answers. Or somebody else explain it to me.

You know why they find Chick-fil-A objectionable - it is the historical corporate support for groups that opposed same sex marriage, as well as the public statements from corporate leaders. However, I don't believe they donate to those orgs anymore and I don't see any comments entering the public realm.

So I am at a loss for why the students are making the change now. Chick-fil-A has been very silent for a while.

yeah, if the Hoot s making the point that students shouldn't eat food from a place that opposed same sex marriage, I think they are out of line. Let the students decide.

Of course, maybe President Buttigieg will ban them from the USA. Along with all other companies that do not toe the PC line. (J/K)
04-24-2019 03:03 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Chik-fil-A
(04-24-2019 03:03 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:58 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:53 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:40 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:35 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  What are their values?

The freedom to decide whose business they bring on to campus!

I find the continued kerfuffles that pop up over Chick-fil-A to be stupid. Especially since they make a darn good product and run their business in a way that creates a good work environment for their employees.

I had CFA for lunch, and agree that they have a good product and run their business well. I am always impressed by the attitude and efficiency of their teenage staff.

But we both know the values they are talking about are not the freedom to decide who to bring on campus. I suspect it is because the owners of CFA have a strong Christian ethic. If I am wrong, show me the error of my ways.

I am a capitalist. If the students want to avoid eating at CFA as a protest against (whatever), fine, they will close and move. Problem solved.

I agree they can chose what the Hoot can chose what they want to serve. I am just curious as to why they find CFA objectionable.

help me here with some real answers. Or somebody else explain it to me.

You know why they find Chick-fil-A objectionable - it is the historical corporate support for groups that opposed same sex marriage, as well as the public statements from corporate leaders. However, I don't believe they donate to those orgs anymore and I don't see any comments entering the public realm.

So I am at a loss for why the students are making the change now. Chick-fil-A has been very silent for a while.

yeah, if the Hoot s making the point that students shouldn't eat food from a place that opposed same sex marriage, I think they are out of line. Let the students decide.

Of course, maybe President Buttigieg will ban them from the USA. Along with all other companies that do not toe the PC line. (J/K)

Even if the Hoot is making that point (which they are), their business model is based upon buying food from vendors X, Y, and Z and then making a profit off the markup associated with providing a service that brings the food to campus.

The only way for them to affect that change, is to stop selling it themselves...

And not sure why you made the comment about Mayor Pete - has he been outspoken about Chick-fil-A?
04-24-2019 03:13 PM
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Rice93 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Chik-fil-A
(04-24-2019 03:13 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:03 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:58 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:53 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:40 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  The freedom to decide whose business they bring on to campus!

I find the continued kerfuffles that pop up over Chick-fil-A to be stupid. Especially since they make a darn good product and run their business in a way that creates a good work environment for their employees.

I had CFA for lunch, and agree that they have a good product and run their business well. I am always impressed by the attitude and efficiency of their teenage staff.

But we both know the values they are talking about are not the freedom to decide who to bring on campus. I suspect it is because the owners of CFA have a strong Christian ethic. If I am wrong, show me the error of my ways.

I am a capitalist. If the students want to avoid eating at CFA as a protest against (whatever), fine, they will close and move. Problem solved.

I agree they can chose what the Hoot can chose what they want to serve. I am just curious as to why they find CFA objectionable.

help me here with some real answers. Or somebody else explain it to me.

You know why they find Chick-fil-A objectionable - it is the historical corporate support for groups that opposed same sex marriage, as well as the public statements from corporate leaders. However, I don't believe they donate to those orgs anymore and I don't see any comments entering the public realm.

So I am at a loss for why the students are making the change now. Chick-fil-A has been very silent for a while.

yeah, if the Hoot s making the point that students shouldn't eat food from a place that opposed same sex marriage, I think they are out of line. Let the students decide.

Of course, maybe President Buttigieg will ban them from the USA. Along with all other companies that do not toe the PC line. (J/K)

Even if the Hoot is making that point (which they are), their business model is based upon buying food from vendors X, Y, and Z and then making a profit off the markup associated with providing a service that brings the food to campus.

The only way for them to affect that change, is to stop selling it themselves...

And not sure why you made the comment about Mayor Pete - has he been outspoken about Chick-fil-A?

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/3/21/...-donations

I don't see the point in getting too worked up regarding those three more recent donations that the article references. It seems like CFA recognized that being outwardly anti same-sex marriage was not good for business and have conducted themselves thusly.
04-24-2019 03:19 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Chik-fil-A
(04-24-2019 03:19 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:13 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:03 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:58 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:53 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I had CFA for lunch, and agree that they have a good product and run their business well. I am always impressed by the attitude and efficiency of their teenage staff.

But we both know the values they are talking about are not the freedom to decide who to bring on campus. I suspect it is because the owners of CFA have a strong Christian ethic. If I am wrong, show me the error of my ways.

I am a capitalist. If the students want to avoid eating at CFA as a protest against (whatever), fine, they will close and move. Problem solved.

I agree they can chose what the Hoot can chose what they want to serve. I am just curious as to why they find CFA objectionable.

help me here with some real answers. Or somebody else explain it to me.

You know why they find Chick-fil-A objectionable - it is the historical corporate support for groups that opposed same sex marriage, as well as the public statements from corporate leaders. However, I don't believe they donate to those orgs anymore and I don't see any comments entering the public realm.

So I am at a loss for why the students are making the change now. Chick-fil-A has been very silent for a while.

yeah, if the Hoot s making the point that students shouldn't eat food from a place that opposed same sex marriage, I think they are out of line. Let the students decide.

Of course, maybe President Buttigieg will ban them from the USA. Along with all other companies that do not toe the PC line. (J/K)

Even if the Hoot is making that point (which they are), their business model is based upon buying food from vendors X, Y, and Z and then making a profit off the markup associated with providing a service that brings the food to campus.

The only way for them to affect that change, is to stop selling it themselves...

And not sure why you made the comment about Mayor Pete - has he been outspoken about Chick-fil-A?

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/3/21/...-donations

I don't see the point in getting too worked up regarding those three more recent donations that the article references. It seems like CFA recognized that being outwardly anti same-sex marriage was not good for business and have conducted themselves thusly.

Ahhhh, I "see" why Chick-fil-A is back in the news. I say "see" because those donations are pretty tame and to at least two organizations that have rather broad goals.

The original ire aimed at Chick-fil-A back in 2012 made a lot more sense, IMO. This seems rather over the top - I mean, who thinks anti-gay when talking about the Salvation Army???
04-24-2019 03:27 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Chik-fil-A
(04-24-2019 03:13 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:03 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:58 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:53 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:40 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  The freedom to decide whose business they bring on to campus!

I find the continued kerfuffles that pop up over Chick-fil-A to be stupid. Especially since they make a darn good product and run their business in a way that creates a good work environment for their employees.

I had CFA for lunch, and agree that they have a good product and run their business well. I am always impressed by the attitude and efficiency of their teenage staff.

But we both know the values they are talking about are not the freedom to decide who to bring on campus. I suspect it is because the owners of CFA have a strong Christian ethic. If I am wrong, show me the error of my ways.

I am a capitalist. If the students want to avoid eating at CFA as a protest against (whatever), fine, they will close and move. Problem solved.

I agree they can chose what the Hoot can chose what they want to serve. I am just curious as to why they find CFA objectionable.

help me here with some real answers. Or somebody else explain it to me.

You know why they find Chick-fil-A objectionable - it is the historical corporate support for groups that opposed same sex marriage, as well as the public statements from corporate leaders. However, I don't believe they donate to those orgs anymore and I don't see any comments entering the public realm.

So I am at a loss for why the students are making the change now. Chick-fil-A has been very silent for a while.

yeah, if the Hoot s making the point that students shouldn't eat food from a place that opposed same sex marriage, I think they are out of line. Let the students decide.

Of course, maybe President Buttigieg will ban them from the USA. Along with all other companies that do not toe the PC line. (J/K)

Even if the Hoot is making that point (which they are), their business model is based upon buying food from vendors X, Y, and Z and then making a profit off the markup associated with providing a service that brings the food to campus.

The only way for them to affect that change, is to stop selling it themselves...

And not sure why you made the comment about Mayor Pete - has he been outspoken about Chick-fil-A?

Mayor Pete has been pretty forthcoming that in a Mayor Pete administration one will be forced by law to bake the cake for the marriage, since he is an ardent opponent of various religious freedom laws.
04-24-2019 03:28 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Chik-fil-A
(04-24-2019 03:28 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:13 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:03 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:58 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:53 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I had CFA for lunch, and agree that they have a good product and run their business well. I am always impressed by the attitude and efficiency of their teenage staff.

But we both know the values they are talking about are not the freedom to decide who to bring on campus. I suspect it is because the owners of CFA have a strong Christian ethic. If I am wrong, show me the error of my ways.

I am a capitalist. If the students want to avoid eating at CFA as a protest against (whatever), fine, they will close and move. Problem solved.

I agree they can chose what the Hoot can chose what they want to serve. I am just curious as to why they find CFA objectionable.

help me here with some real answers. Or somebody else explain it to me.

You know why they find Chick-fil-A objectionable - it is the historical corporate support for groups that opposed same sex marriage, as well as the public statements from corporate leaders. However, I don't believe they donate to those orgs anymore and I don't see any comments entering the public realm.

So I am at a loss for why the students are making the change now. Chick-fil-A has been very silent for a while.

yeah, if the Hoot s making the point that students shouldn't eat food from a place that opposed same sex marriage, I think they are out of line. Let the students decide.

Of course, maybe President Buttigieg will ban them from the USA. Along with all other companies that do not toe the PC line. (J/K)

Even if the Hoot is making that point (which they are), their business model is based upon buying food from vendors X, Y, and Z and then making a profit off the markup associated with providing a service that brings the food to campus.

The only way for them to affect that change, is to stop selling it themselves...

And not sure why you made the comment about Mayor Pete - has he been outspoken about Chick-fil-A?

Mayor Pete has been pretty forthcoming that in a Mayor Pete administration one will be forced by law to bake the cake for the marriage, since he is an ardent opponent of various religious freedom laws.

Has he said he will ban those businesses? Or are you extrapolating from his position that a business can't discriminate on who it serves?
04-24-2019 03:32 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Chik-fil-A
Actually thought of one good outcome from this, and one that should affect the other food they resale.

The Hoot should make it a mission to support locally owned businesses in Houston. Swap out fried chicken from Chick-fil-A with Frenchy's. Swap out Whataburger with the Burger Joint. The Hoot is a very small SRB - it would be cool if they could focus on patronizing real small businesses in the community.
04-24-2019 03:34 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Chik-fil-A
(04-24-2019 03:13 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:03 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:58 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:53 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:40 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  The freedom to decide whose business they bring on to campus!

I find the continued kerfuffles that pop up over Chick-fil-A to be stupid. Especially since they make a darn good product and run their business in a way that creates a good work environment for their employees.

I had CFA for lunch, and agree that they have a good product and run their business well. I am always impressed by the attitude and efficiency of their teenage staff.

But we both know the values they are talking about are not the freedom to decide who to bring on campus. I suspect it is because the owners of CFA have a strong Christian ethic. If I am wrong, show me the error of my ways.

I am a capitalist. If the students want to avoid eating at CFA as a protest against (whatever), fine, they will close and move. Problem solved.

I agree they can chose what the Hoot can chose what they want to serve. I am just curious as to why they find CFA objectionable.

help me here with some real answers. Or somebody else explain it to me.

You know why they find Chick-fil-A objectionable - it is the historical corporate support for groups that opposed same sex marriage, as well as the public statements from corporate leaders. However, I don't believe they donate to those orgs anymore and I don't see any comments entering the public realm.

So I am at a loss for why the students are making the change now. Chick-fil-A has been very silent for a while.

yeah, if the Hoot s making the point that students shouldn't eat food from a place that opposed same sex marriage, I think they are out of line. Let the students decide.

Of course, maybe President Buttigieg will ban them from the USA. Along with all other companies that do not toe the PC line. (J/K)

Even if the Hoot is making that point (which they are), their business model is based upon buying food from vendors X, Y, and Z and then making a profit off the markup associated with providing a service that brings the food to campus.

The only way for them to affect that change, is to stop selling it themselves...

And not sure why you made the comment about Mayor Pete - has he been outspoken about Chick-fil-A?

Unlike "some" people, I will address your questions, not dodge them.

It is not the job of the Hoot to affect social change. It is their job to bring reasonably priced food that people want to campus. It is NOT their job to police the thinking on campus by restricting choices.

I made the comment about Mayor Pete because he is in a same sex marriage and is running for president. The comment was made as a joke, thus the "J/K' at the end. Does J/K not mean what I think it means, or did you just miss it?

I feel that some will now attribute certain attitudes to me, so I will just cut that off at the pass by saying I have always supported gay marriage, though perhaps not for politically correct reasons.
04-24-2019 03:41 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Chik-fil-A
(04-24-2019 03:32 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:28 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:13 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:03 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:58 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  You know why they find Chick-fil-A objectionable - it is the historical corporate support for groups that opposed same sex marriage, as well as the public statements from corporate leaders. However, I don't believe they donate to those orgs anymore and I don't see any comments entering the public realm.

So I am at a loss for why the students are making the change now. Chick-fil-A has been very silent for a while.

yeah, if the Hoot s making the point that students shouldn't eat food from a place that opposed same sex marriage, I think they are out of line. Let the students decide.

Of course, maybe President Buttigieg will ban them from the USA. Along with all other companies that do not toe the PC line. (J/K)

Even if the Hoot is making that point (which they are), their business model is based upon buying food from vendors X, Y, and Z and then making a profit off the markup associated with providing a service that brings the food to campus.

The only way for them to affect that change, is to stop selling it themselves...

And not sure why you made the comment about Mayor Pete - has he been outspoken about Chick-fil-A?

Mayor Pete has been pretty forthcoming that in a Mayor Pete administration one will be forced by law to bake the cake for the marriage, since he is an ardent opponent of various religious freedom laws.

Has he said he will ban those businesses? Or are you extrapolating from his position that a business can't discriminate on who it serves?

He has voiced his explicit opposition to a state version of the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act, and been an ardent critic of the Federal RFRA act and various other religious freedom acts over the last number of years.

Buttigieg is also an outspoken advocate of the Equality Act.

It would strike down religious freedom protections for private citizens if they exercised their consciences in running their own businesses. It is seemingly designed to explicitly trump Religious Freedom Restoration Acts at the state and federal level, and also to explicitly overturn Hobby Lobby and a raft of other court cases on RFRA.

So yes, Mayor Pete is seemingly on the 'force the bakers to bake a cake' train.

The comment including Mayor Pete in this discussion is fairly on point, especially considering the San Antonio city council decision to bar CFA from the airport solely on grounds wholly at odds with the 1st Amendment.

The Hoot is a ostensibly a private entity, not subject to the First Amendment restrictions on their conduct and speech, and can (and should) be able to do business with whomever they wish on whatever terms they wish.

You know, those same principles not afforded to Masterpiece Bakery. Or the New Mexico photographer..... etc., etc., etc.

And I too wish to stop the virtue signalling/ deplorable train in its tracks by noting that I am probably one of the very few people on this board to actually have a chance to vote on gay marriage provision, and voted against a state constitutional amendment to bar it. But probably for far too nuanced of a rationale.....
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2019 03:50 PM by tanqtonic.)
04-24-2019 03:43 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Chik-fil-A
(04-24-2019 03:41 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:13 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:03 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:58 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 02:53 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I had CFA for lunch, and agree that they have a good product and run their business well. I am always impressed by the attitude and efficiency of their teenage staff.

But we both know the values they are talking about are not the freedom to decide who to bring on campus. I suspect it is because the owners of CFA have a strong Christian ethic. If I am wrong, show me the error of my ways.

I am a capitalist. If the students want to avoid eating at CFA as a protest against (whatever), fine, they will close and move. Problem solved.

I agree they can chose what the Hoot can chose what they want to serve. I am just curious as to why they find CFA objectionable.

help me here with some real answers. Or somebody else explain it to me.

You know why they find Chick-fil-A objectionable - it is the historical corporate support for groups that opposed same sex marriage, as well as the public statements from corporate leaders. However, I don't believe they donate to those orgs anymore and I don't see any comments entering the public realm.

So I am at a loss for why the students are making the change now. Chick-fil-A has been very silent for a while.

yeah, if the Hoot s making the point that students shouldn't eat food from a place that opposed same sex marriage, I think they are out of line. Let the students decide.

Of course, maybe President Buttigieg will ban them from the USA. Along with all other companies that do not toe the PC line. (J/K)

Even if the Hoot is making that point (which they are), their business model is based upon buying food from vendors X, Y, and Z and then making a profit off the markup associated with providing a service that brings the food to campus.

The only way for them to affect that change, is to stop selling it themselves...

And not sure why you made the comment about Mayor Pete - has he been outspoken about Chick-fil-A?

Unlike "some" people, I will address your questions, not dodge them.

It is not the job of the Hoot to affect social change. It is their job to bring reasonably priced food that people want to campus. It is NOT their job to police the thinking on campus by restricting choices.

I made the comment about Mayor Pete because he is in a same sex marriage and is running for president. The comment was made as a joke, thus the "J/K' at the end. Does J/K not mean what I think it means, or did you just miss it?

I feel that some will now attribute certain attitudes to me, so I will just cut that off at the pass by saying I have always supported gay marriage, though perhaps not for politically correct reasons.

Sometimes J/K doesnt serve as a sufficiently prophylactic indication of jest around some prone to the virtue signalling set. I learned that one in Cali....
04-24-2019 03:52 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Chik-fil-A
lad, as for 'what will Mayor Pete do', perhaps you should call him up and ask.

His oppositions to the bills are on record, but he has been strangely quiet and resistant on any follow up, elaboration, or nuance on this for the last year or so. I wonder why.

But knock yourself out to get your answers.
04-24-2019 03:55 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Chik-fil-A
(04-24-2019 03:43 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:32 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:28 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:13 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:03 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  yeah, if the Hoot s making the point that students shouldn't eat food from a place that opposed same sex marriage, I think they are out of line. Let the students decide.

Of course, maybe President Buttigieg will ban them from the USA. Along with all other companies that do not toe the PC line. (J/K)

Even if the Hoot is making that point (which they are), their business model is based upon buying food from vendors X, Y, and Z and then making a profit off the markup associated with providing a service that brings the food to campus.

The only way for them to affect that change, is to stop selling it themselves...

And not sure why you made the comment about Mayor Pete - has he been outspoken about Chick-fil-A?

Mayor Pete has been pretty forthcoming that in a Mayor Pete administration one will be forced by law to bake the cake for the marriage, since he is an ardent opponent of various religious freedom laws.

Has he said he will ban those businesses? Or are you extrapolating from his position that a business can't discriminate on who it serves?

He has voiced his explicit opposition to a state version of the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act, and been an ardent critic of the Federal RFRA act and various other religious freedom acts over the last number of years.

Buttigieg is also an outspoken advocate of the Equality Act.

It would strike down religious freedom protections for private citizens if they exercised their consciences in running their own businesses. It is seemingly designed to explicitly trump Religious Freedom Restoration Acts at the state and federal level, and also to explicitly overturn Hobby Lobby and a raft of other court cases on RFRA.

So yes, Mayor Pete is seemingly on the 'force the bakers to bake a cake' train.

The comment including Mayor Pete in this discussion is fairly on point, especially considering the San Antonio city council decision to bar CFA from the airport solely on grounds wholly at odds with the 1st Amendment.

The Hoot is a ostensibly a private entity, not subject to the First Amendment restrictions on their conduct and speech, and can (and should) be able to do business with whomever they wish on whatever terms they wish.

You know, those same principles not afforded to Masterpiece Bakery. Or the New Mexico photographer..... etc., etc., etc.

And I too wish to stop the virtue signalling/ deplorable train in its tracks by noting that I am probably one of the very few people on this board to actually have a chance to vote on gay marriage provision, and voted against a state constitutional amendment to bar it. But probably for far too nuanced of a rationale.....

There are limits to that First Amendment rights of the Hoot - they cannot discriminate against customers because of their race. You're looking at the issue incorrectly here, because the Hoot is procuring a service in this instance, and not providing one. So that baker comparison isn't quite right, because the bakery was trying to limit who they served (just like how a hotel could not discriminate from housing a person of color for the night).

I do agree that the Hoot should be 100% able to procure services from whoever they feel they should, and reap the consequences of those actions, and am very much opposed to OO's idea about what the Hoot's job is to do. They are a SRB - their job is to run the Hoot in any manner they see fit. They are not policing campus thought, in fact, their decision to remove Chick-fil-A from their inventory creates an opportunity for other students to open up a competitive business, if they would like, that serves Chick-fil-A late at night.

On a similar note, do protected classes such as race have any impact on who a company procures business from? As in, have there been lawsuits won by people who said that someone did not do business with them because they were of a protected class?
04-24-2019 03:58 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Chik-fil-A
(04-24-2019 03:55 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  lad, as for 'what will Mayor Pete do', perhaps you should call him up and ask.

His oppositions to the bills are on record, but he has been strangely quiet and resistant on any follow up, elaboration, or nuance on this for the last year or so. I wonder why.

But knock yourself out to get your answers.

I was asking because I had not seen any indications that Mayor Pete would ban businesses because of their beliefs or causes they support, which is a rather far cry from saying it's illegal to refuse service.
04-24-2019 04:00 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Chik-fil-A
(04-24-2019 03:58 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:43 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:32 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:28 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:13 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Even if the Hoot is making that point (which they are), their business model is based upon buying food from vendors X, Y, and Z and then making a profit off the markup associated with providing a service that brings the food to campus.

The only way for them to affect that change, is to stop selling it themselves...

And not sure why you made the comment about Mayor Pete - has he been outspoken about Chick-fil-A?

Mayor Pete has been pretty forthcoming that in a Mayor Pete administration one will be forced by law to bake the cake for the marriage, since he is an ardent opponent of various religious freedom laws.

Has he said he will ban those businesses? Or are you extrapolating from his position that a business can't discriminate on who it serves?

He has voiced his explicit opposition to a state version of the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act, and been an ardent critic of the Federal RFRA act and various other religious freedom acts over the last number of years.

Buttigieg is also an outspoken advocate of the Equality Act.

It would strike down religious freedom protections for private citizens if they exercised their consciences in running their own businesses. It is seemingly designed to explicitly trump Religious Freedom Restoration Acts at the state and federal level, and also to explicitly overturn Hobby Lobby and a raft of other court cases on RFRA.

So yes, Mayor Pete is seemingly on the 'force the bakers to bake a cake' train.

The comment including Mayor Pete in this discussion is fairly on point, especially considering the San Antonio city council decision to bar CFA from the airport solely on grounds wholly at odds with the 1st Amendment.

The Hoot is a ostensibly a private entity, not subject to the First Amendment restrictions on their conduct and speech, and can (and should) be able to do business with whomever they wish on whatever terms they wish.

You know, those same principles not afforded to Masterpiece Bakery. Or the New Mexico photographer..... etc., etc., etc.

And I too wish to stop the virtue signalling/ deplorable train in its tracks by noting that I am probably one of the very few people on this board to actually have a chance to vote on gay marriage provision, and voted against a state constitutional amendment to bar it. But probably for far too nuanced of a rationale.....

There are limits to that First Amendment rights of the Hoot - they cannot discriminate against customers because of their race.

And those limits are Constitutional in nature as well. Try the post 1865 amendments, and that gives you your answer there in your exception.

Quote:You're looking at the issue incorrectly here, because the Hoot is procuring a service in this instance, and not providing one. So that baker comparison isn't quite right, because the bakery was trying to limit who they served (just like how a hotel could not discriminate from housing a person of color for the night).

Actually the issue is the freedom of anyone to do business with anyone else. The polarity isnt an issue. The act of each party is the act of limiting whom they do business with based on some distinction.

Your hotel example is the outlier, because racial discrimination is based directly on the text of the Constitution. Your mix and match is just that for that reason.

Please feel free to make up some more jurisprudence and context as we go along, though.

Quote:On a similar note, do protected classes such as race have any impact on who a company procures business from?

Short answer -- yes. Longer answer -- much harder to prove 'discriminatory intent'. Much easier to prove intent when you refuse to 'provide' a class with a service or product. The act of accepting solicitations for business is much more opaque in the fact pattern.

It is easy to note when a diner puts out a 'Blacks not allowed at tables' sign, or refuses to serve anyone of color walking in the door.

To prove up the opposite polarity, one would have to have a much deeper and much more insightful view of the complete business.

The laws are written not in the terms of 'refusing to serve' but for 'acts of discrimination.'
04-24-2019 04:18 PM
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illiniowl Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Chik-fil-A
(04-24-2019 03:58 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:43 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:32 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:28 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(04-24-2019 03:13 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Even if the Hoot is making that point (which they are), their business model is based upon buying food from vendors X, Y, and Z and then making a profit off the markup associated with providing a service that brings the food to campus.

The only way for them to affect that change, is to stop selling it themselves...

And not sure why you made the comment about Mayor Pete - has he been outspoken about Chick-fil-A?

Mayor Pete has been pretty forthcoming that in a Mayor Pete administration one will be forced by law to bake the cake for the marriage, since he is an ardent opponent of various religious freedom laws.

Has he said he will ban those businesses? Or are you extrapolating from his position that a business can't discriminate on who it serves?

He has voiced his explicit opposition to a state version of the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act, and been an ardent critic of the Federal RFRA act and various other religious freedom acts over the last number of years.

Buttigieg is also an outspoken advocate of the Equality Act.

It would strike down religious freedom protections for private citizens if they exercised their consciences in running their own businesses. It is seemingly designed to explicitly trump Religious Freedom Restoration Acts at the state and federal level, and also to explicitly overturn Hobby Lobby and a raft of other court cases on RFRA.

So yes, Mayor Pete is seemingly on the 'force the bakers to bake a cake' train.

The comment including Mayor Pete in this discussion is fairly on point, especially considering the San Antonio city council decision to bar CFA from the airport solely on grounds wholly at odds with the 1st Amendment.

The Hoot is a ostensibly a private entity, not subject to the First Amendment restrictions on their conduct and speech, and can (and should) be able to do business with whomever they wish on whatever terms they wish.

You know, those same principles not afforded to Masterpiece Bakery. Or the New Mexico photographer..... etc., etc., etc.

And I too wish to stop the virtue signalling/ deplorable train in its tracks by noting that I am probably one of the very few people on this board to actually have a chance to vote on gay marriage provision, and voted against a state constitutional amendment to bar it. But probably for far too nuanced of a rationale.....

There are limits to that First Amendment rights of the Hoot - they cannot discriminate against customers because of their race. You're looking at the issue incorrectly here, because the Hoot is procuring a service in this instance, and not providing one. So that baker comparison isn't quite right, because the bakery was trying to limit who they served (just like how a hotel could not discriminate from housing a person of color for the night).

I do agree that the Hoot should be 100% able to procure services from whoever they feel they should, and reap the consequences of those actions, and am very much opposed to OO's idea about what the Hoot's job is to do. They are a SRB - their job is to run the Hoot in any manner they see fit. They are not policing campus thought, in fact, their decision to remove Chick-fil-A from their inventory creates an opportunity for other students to open up a competitive business, if they would like, that serves Chick-fil-A late at night.

On a similar note, do protected classes such as race have any impact on who a company procures business from? As in, have there been lawsuits won by people who said that someone did not do business with them because they were of a protected class?

Actually, what's needed here is a little nuance 03-wink: the bakery (Masterpiece Cakeshop) actually was not trying to limit who they served, they were trying to limit what they served. LGBTQ customers were/are free to buy cakes off the shelf (even ones that say Just Married or Happy Anniversary or some such), and were/are free to contract for the making of custom cakes celebrating birthdays, promotions, softball league championships and any and every occasion under the sun except the one that the owner had/has a religious objection to. I hope you would agree that "nuance" actually makes all the difference in the world.
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2019 05:11 PM by illiniowl.)
04-24-2019 05:11 PM
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