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NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
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pesik Online
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NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
attempting to pass a new rule that would make grad transfers count for 2 years of scholarship, even if the player has only 1 year of eligibility ..

(example: Texas tech who had 3 grad transfers this season with 1 year eligibility, could only have 10 players next season)..this would essentially kill grad transfers

will be voted on Friday by all d1 conferences (transfer committee)

https://apnews.com/e4fbc74f9e7a454bb4f83954b243271e

every known opinion from a p5 school is that they are against it ..the MAC, Sunbelt and numerous mid-majors support it..no clue where us and the mwc stand
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2019 10:02 AM by pesik.)
04-17-2019 10:01 AM
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HuskyU Offline
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RE: NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
I hope we vote against this dumb proposal.
04-17-2019 10:03 AM
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RE: NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
Somebody is really pissed that their grads want to compete. I see grad transfers as a very good thing for the student. If they finish their degree in three years, its most likely because they stayed on campus and took summer classes so they could practice. If they finish in four and took a red shirt, they gave that program 4 years already. Reward them and let them play for someone else.
04-17-2019 10:07 AM
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StillJonesing Offline
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RE: NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
(04-17-2019 10:07 AM)MTXE Wrote:  Somebody is really pissed that their grads want to compete. I see grad transfers as a very good thing for the student. If they finish their degree in three years, its most likely because they stayed on campus and took summer classes so they could practice. If they finish in four and took a red shirt, they gave that program 4 years already. Reward them and let them play for someone else.

Not really. When you take out the obvious injured guys that missed more than 10 games in a year and medical redshirted and graduate if 4, what seems to be happening more and more with these grad transfers is many were the guys that were already previously transfers and it makes sense. These would be the guys that don't mind bouncing around from school to school.

You have a guy that starts out at one school, transfers and sits out ends up graduating and then transfers again for his senior year. There are many guys playing at 3 schools and really gaming the system. That's pretty problematic and almost makes the normal undergrade transfer list do at your own risk. At this point I don't even like the idea of taking most of those because you invest that redshirt year in him sitting out and get no use out of that scholarship only to have a higher likely hood you will losing them for that 5th year senior season to transfer so sometimes you are spending 2 years of scholarship just to get one year of play.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2019 10:20 AM by StillJonesing.)
04-17-2019 10:16 AM
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Attackcoog Online
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RE: NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
(04-17-2019 10:16 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  
(04-17-2019 10:07 AM)MTXE Wrote:  Somebody is really pissed that their grads want to compete. I see grad transfers as a very good thing for the student. If they finish their degree in three years, its most likely because they stayed on campus and took summer classes so they could practice. If they finish in four and took a red shirt, they gave that program 4 years already. Reward them and let them play for someone else.

Not really. When you take out the obvious injured guys that missed more than 10 games in a year and medical redshirted and graduate if 4, what seems to be happening more and more with these grad transfers is many were the guys that were already previously transfers and it makes sense. These would be the guys that don't mind bouncing around from school to school.

You have a guy that starts out at one school, transfers and sits out ends up graduating and then transfers again for his senior year. There are many guys playing at 3 schools and really gaming the system. That's pretty problematic and almost makes the normal undergrade transfer list do at your own risk. At this point I don't even like the idea of taking most of those because you invest that redshirt year in him sitting out and get no use out of that scholarship only to have a higher likely hood you will losing them for that 5th year senior season to transfer so sometimes you are spending 2 years of scholarship just to get one year of play.

A grad transfer is a different animal in my opinion. The kid graduates. He finished his undergrad studies successfully. All bets should be off at that point. He agreed to play for "State U" and "State U" offered an undergrad degree scholarship in exchange for his play. Upon graduation, to me, the deal is complete. If the player wants to go elsewhere with whatever time he has left--he should be able to go where ever he wishes and no extra hurdles should be placed in his way by the school he's leaving, the coach he's leaving, or the NCAA. The current grad transfer rules are just fine.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2019 10:53 AM by Attackcoog.)
04-17-2019 10:34 AM
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Nevadanatural Offline
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RE: NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
^this. Once you graduate where you go to school next should be your choice.
04-17-2019 10:49 AM
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RE: NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
(04-17-2019 10:34 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-17-2019 10:16 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  
(04-17-2019 10:07 AM)MTXE Wrote:  Somebody is really pissed that their grads want to compete. I see grad transfers as a very good thing for the student. If they finish their degree in three years, its most likely because they stayed on campus and took summer classes so they could practice. If they finish in four and took a red shirt, they gave that program 4 years already. Reward them and let them play for someone else.

Not really. When you take out the obvious injured guys that missed more than 10 games in a year and medical redshirted and graduate if 4, what seems to be happening more and more with these grad transfers is many were the guys that were already previously transfers and it makes sense. These would be the guys that don't mind bouncing around from school to school.

You have a guy that starts out at one school, transfers and sits out ends up graduating and then transfers again for his senior year. There are many guys playing at 3 schools and really gaming the system. That's pretty problematic and almost makes the normal undergrade transfer list do at your own risk. At this point I don't even like the idea of taking most of those because you invest that redshirt year in him sitting out and get no use out of that scholarship only to have a higher likely hood you will losing them for that 5th year senior season to transfer so sometimes you are spending 2 years of scholarship just to get one year of play.

A grad transfer is a different animal in my opinion. The kid graduates. He finished his undergrad studies successfully. All bets should be off at that point. He agreed to play for "State U" and "State U" offered an undergrad degree scholarship in exchange for his play. Upon graduation, to me, the deal is complete. If the player wants to go elsewhere with whatever time he has left--he should be able to go where ever he wishes and no extra hurdles should be placed in his way by the school he's leaving, the coach he's leaving, or the NCAA. The current grad transfer rules are just fine.

Agree.
04-17-2019 11:03 AM
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RE: NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
Anything that limits the freedom of movement of the students is idiotic. The fact that scholarships are for 1 year and can not be renewed at the whim of the program but a kid has to sit out if he wants to pursue his education elsewhere is antithetical to everything that makes us Americans.
04-17-2019 11:05 AM
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RE: NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
The grad transfer rule also helps in situations where the player's undergraduate school does not offer a Master's course.

Bottom line all of this pushback is due to the fact the transfer wires have actually helped the non-elite schools compete with the big dogs.
04-17-2019 03:00 PM
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RE: NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
(04-17-2019 03:00 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  The grad transfer rule also helps in situations where the player's undergraduate school does not offer a Master's course.

Bottom line all of this pushback is due to the fact the transfer wires have actually helped the non-elite schools compete with the big dogs.

Yeah, our football staff said this has been a major boon for SMU. Why they are recruiting 4 and 5* kids now even when they will go to major programs - get them when they undergraduate transfer or become a graduate transfer.
04-17-2019 03:02 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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RE: NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
Dennis Dodd says it’s unlikely to pass.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...ssion=true
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2019 09:03 PM by Attackcoog.)
04-17-2019 09:02 PM
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NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
Grad transfers should be able to do as they choose. If they want to constrain transfers, go after the rest leave the grads alone.


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04-17-2019 11:28 PM
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RE: NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
(04-17-2019 03:00 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  The grad transfer rule also helps in situations where the player's undergraduate school does not offer a Master's course.

Bottom line all of this pushback is due to the fact the transfer wires have actually helped the non-elite schools compete with the big dogs.

Then why are the big schools opposing the proposal? Grad Transfers hurts smaller schools way more as their best players can easily be scooped up by major programs for their last and theoretically best year.
04-18-2019 06:45 AM
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RE: NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
(04-17-2019 03:00 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  The grad transfer rule also helps in situations where the player's undergraduate school does not offer a Master's course.

Challenge is many are NOT earning their Master's Degree....they are just taking a few classes in the Fall Semester and not coming close to earning their Master's Degree...so its a "sham" that schools are trying to help them earn these grad degrees.

Also, since these players have already earned their Undergrad degree...the school that these grad players transfer to don't get dinged if said players don't earn their Master's Degrees.

What some are trying to accomplish is that it normally takes TWO years for said players to earn their Master's Degree so make the scholarship "fit" the academic mission and not the Athletic one...which in many cases, is just one fall semester.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2019 06:51 AM by KnightLight.)
04-18-2019 06:50 AM
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RE: NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
(04-18-2019 06:50 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  
(04-17-2019 03:00 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  The grad transfer rule also helps in situations where the player's undergraduate school does not offer a Master's course.

Challenge is many are NOT earning their Master's Degree....they are just taking a few classes in the Fall Semester and not coming close to earning their Master's Degree...so its a "sham" that schools are trying to help them earn these grad degrees.

Also, since these players have already earned their Undergrad degree...the school that these grad players transfer to don't get dinged if said players don't earn their Master's Degrees.

What some are trying to accomplish is that it normally takes TWO years for said players to earn their Master's Degree so make the scholarship "fit" the academic mission and not the Athletic one...which in many cases, is just one fall semester.

Then give them an extra year of eligibility to complete their masters.
04-18-2019 09:20 AM
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RE: NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Footbal
(04-18-2019 06:50 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  
(04-17-2019 03:00 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  The grad transfer rule also helps in situations where the player's undergraduate school does not offer a Master's course.

Challenge is many are NOT earning their Master's Degree....they are just taking a few classes in the Fall Semester and not coming close to earning their Master's Degree...so its a "sham" that schools are trying to help them earn these grad degrees.

Also, since these players have already earned their Undergrad degree...the school that these grad players transfer to don't get dinged if said players don't earn their Master's Degrees.

What some are trying to accomplish is that it normally takes TWO years for said players to earn their Master's Degree so make the scholarship "fit" the academic mission and not the Athletic one...which in many cases, is just one fall semester.

They aren’t trying to do that at all. It’s simply a ham fisted clumsy way of trying to prevent transfers. If they were really worried about the completion of post grad work then they would require EVERY school with grad players to commit to 2 years post grad education for any player who graduates with one of more years of eligibility left. This rule only requires schools accepting a grad transfer to commit a scholarship for the 2 years it typically takes to complete a post grad degree—-but teams are NOT required to do the same for thier players who remain on the team after completing thier undergrad degree prior to using up their eligibility (these players are simply using post grad studies as an excuse to play an additional year—zero difference if they stay or transfer---as there is no real expectation they will obtain a post grad degree in one year if they stay at their original school).
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2019 01:50 PM by Attackcoog.)
04-18-2019 10:01 AM
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RE: NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
We've been pretty fortunate at Cincinnati in having a couple guys who got their undergrad in three years. The past two years, we had Kyle Trout (OL) who transferred here after he graduated from Ohio State. He got his Master's here, but the primary reason for the transfer was because his wife was in the area for medical school.

We also still have Cam Jeffries, who will start at corner for the second year in a row after graduating in three at Bowling Green.
04-18-2019 10:14 AM
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RE: NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
(04-17-2019 10:34 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-17-2019 10:16 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  
(04-17-2019 10:07 AM)MTXE Wrote:  Somebody is really pissed that their grads want to compete. I see grad transfers as a very good thing for the student. If they finish their degree in three years, its most likely because they stayed on campus and took summer classes so they could practice. If they finish in four and took a red shirt, they gave that program 4 years already. Reward them and let them play for someone else.

Not really. When you take out the obvious injured guys that missed more than 10 games in a year and medical redshirted and graduate if 4, what seems to be happening more and more with these grad transfers is many were the guys that were already previously transfers and it makes sense. These would be the guys that don't mind bouncing around from school to school.

You have a guy that starts out at one school, transfers and sits out ends up graduating and then transfers again for his senior year. There are many guys playing at 3 schools and really gaming the system. That's pretty problematic and almost makes the normal undergrade transfer list do at your own risk. At this point I don't even like the idea of taking most of those because you invest that redshirt year in him sitting out and get no use out of that scholarship only to have a higher likely hood you will losing them for that 5th year senior season to transfer so sometimes you are spending 2 years of scholarship just to get one year of play.

A grad transfer is a different animal in my opinion. The kid graduates. He finished his undergrad studies successfully. All bets should be off at that point. He agreed to play for "State U" and "State U" offered an undergrad degree scholarship in exchange for his play. Upon graduation, to me, the deal is complete. If the player wants to go elsewhere with whatever time he has left--he should be able to go where ever he wishes and no extra hurdles should be placed in his way by the school he's leaving, the coach he's leaving, or the NCAA. The current grad transfer rules are just fine.

Don't get me wrong. I don't care either, I am just acknowledging the system is starting to get played with many players playing at 3 different schools over eligible 4 years and seeming to do it on purpose to game the system. If they want to as a player great go for it but I can see why the NCAA would be looking into it. They aren't giving one school 4 years then transferring in many cases like the guy I posted at. It's basically become a way to bounce around like a free agent for many and the middle school usually gets shafted with the sit out year to get a year.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2019 10:25 AM by StillJonesing.)
04-18-2019 10:23 AM
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pesik Online
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RE: NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
(04-18-2019 06:50 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  
(04-17-2019 03:00 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  The grad transfer rule also helps in situations where the player's undergraduate school does not offer a Master's course.

Challenge is many are NOT earning their Master's Degree....they are just taking a few classes in the Fall Semester and not coming close to earning their Master's Degree...so its a "sham" that schools are trying to help them earn these grad degrees.

Also, since these players have already earned their Undergrad degree...the school that these grad players transfer to don't get dinged if said players don't earn their Master's Degrees.

What some are trying to accomplish is that it normally takes TWO years for said players to earn their Master's Degree so make the scholarship "fit" the academic mission and not the Athletic one...which in many cases, is just one fall semester.

but why chose it to affect the athletic side..

why not offers a 2nd year academic scholarship that doesnt count towards the limits when you are a grad transfer

and according to the data 30% finish their masters....are we supposed to condemn those 30%??
04-18-2019 11:51 AM
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Attackcoog Online
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RE: NCAA attempting to constrain Grad Transfers (Basketball & Football)
(04-18-2019 10:23 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  
(04-17-2019 10:34 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-17-2019 10:16 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  
(04-17-2019 10:07 AM)MTXE Wrote:  Somebody is really pissed that their grads want to compete. I see grad transfers as a very good thing for the student. If they finish their degree in three years, its most likely because they stayed on campus and took summer classes so they could practice. If they finish in four and took a red shirt, they gave that program 4 years already. Reward them and let them play for someone else.

Not really. When you take out the obvious injured guys that missed more than 10 games in a year and medical redshirted and graduate if 4, what seems to be happening more and more with these grad transfers is many were the guys that were already previously transfers and it makes sense. These would be the guys that don't mind bouncing around from school to school.

You have a guy that starts out at one school, transfers and sits out ends up graduating and then transfers again for his senior year. There are many guys playing at 3 schools and really gaming the system. That's pretty problematic and almost makes the normal undergrade transfer list do at your own risk. At this point I don't even like the idea of taking most of those because you invest that redshirt year in him sitting out and get no use out of that scholarship only to have a higher likely hood you will losing them for that 5th year senior season to transfer so sometimes you are spending 2 years of scholarship just to get one year of play.

A grad transfer is a different animal in my opinion. The kid graduates. He finished his undergrad studies successfully. All bets should be off at that point. He agreed to play for "State U" and "State U" offered an undergrad degree scholarship in exchange for his play. Upon graduation, to me, the deal is complete. If the player wants to go elsewhere with whatever time he has left--he should be able to go where ever he wishes and no extra hurdles should be placed in his way by the school he's leaving, the coach he's leaving, or the NCAA. The current grad transfer rules are just fine.

Don't get me wrong. I don't care either, I am just acknowledging the system is starting to get played with many players playing at 3 different schools over eligible 4 years and seeming to do it on purpose to game the system. If they want to as a player great go for it but I can see why the NCAA would be looking into it. They aren't giving one school 4 years then transferring in many cases like the guy I posted at. It's basically become a way to bounce around like a free agent for many and the middle school usually gets shafted with the sit out year to get a year.

Here's the thing for me---given all the time and effort requirements that playing football or basketball demands---any kid who graduates early with eligibility left has worked his tail off to get to that position. If he wishes to go elsewhere in his final year or two---so be it.

The reality is this affects only a tiny percentage of the kids who play D1 sports. Furthermore, it almost always is a situation that is mutually beneficial fo the kid (he gets playing time he wouldn't get at his present school) and the new school (they probably get a starter or a major contributor in an area of need). Basically, the NCAA is addressing an issue that isn't really a problem. The real question is--why is this proposal even being brought up?

If your really want to help the kid---require all schools to provide 2 years of grad degree study for kids who graduate with elligibility left---but dont have players who are out of eligibility, but still on grad-school scholarships count against the 25 per year or 85 total scholarship totals. That might even serve as an incentive for every player to try to graduate before his eligibility expires.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2019 02:02 PM by Attackcoog.)
04-18-2019 01:56 PM
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