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Jones gets a two year extension
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Cyniclone Online
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Post: #61
RE: Jones gets a two year extension
(04-29-2019 11:40 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  They also get more NCAA units than we do because of the conference. Just one extra revenue source.

I think the bigger benefit is that A-10 schools keep a much larger chunk of the NCAA units compared to most other conferences, which distribute unit monies equally among all schools. It's something like 70, 75 percent of the unit, I believe, though I can't find the exact number. VCU, making the NCAAs in all but one year in its A-10 tenure, gets a lot more benefit from tournament units than Fordham and Duquesne.

So they get a little extra money for each additional school that the A-10 sends but for the most part, it's the fact that they're in the tournament (and occasionally winning a game) that provides the oomph in their budget.
04-29-2019 12:41 PM
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Post: #62
RE: Jones gets a two year extension
(04-29-2019 09:58 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  
(04-29-2019 09:30 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  Mike Rhodes upped to $1.5 million a year.

Also...think about this: VCU charters to EVERY away game that requires air travel. ODU chartered to 2 maybe 3 games last year. So we need another $800k/year to make this happen VCU probably spends about $1.5M more on basketball than we do. That is a huge advantage when it comes to recruiting. Also their Asst. Coaches make more than ours. We need to up the Salaries of our assistants as well. Now is the time to really think about giving more $ to basketball so our upward trend can continue.

I don't know man. I'm getting the sense the ODU faithful are about tapped out. I know I cant justify paying much more. Its time for the admin to get some more corporate dollars in here, sell some more naming rights, sell more tickets and fire Judy so we can get some media dollars and exposure. If CUSA schools were brining in $2million per school off media rights, that would help. Of course, that would require actually being on TV.
04-29-2019 12:42 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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Post: #63
RE: Jones gets a two year extension
(04-29-2019 12:42 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(04-29-2019 09:58 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  
(04-29-2019 09:30 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  Mike Rhodes upped to $1.5 million a year.

Also...think about this: VCU charters to EVERY away game that requires air travel. ODU chartered to 2 maybe 3 games last year. So we need another $800k/year to make this happen VCU probably spends about $1.5M more on basketball than we do. That is a huge advantage when it comes to recruiting. Also their Asst. Coaches make more than ours. We need to up the Salaries of our assistants as well. Now is the time to really think about giving more $ to basketball so our upward trend can continue.

I don't know man. I'm getting the sense the ODU faithful are about tapped out. I know I cant justify paying much more. Its time for the admin to get some more corporate dollars in here, sell some more naming rights, sell more tickets and fire Judy so we can get some media dollars and exposure. If CUSA schools were brining in $2million per school off media rights, that would help. Of course, that would require actually being on TV.

Everything you want is easy to imagine but considerably harder to pull off. Corporate dollars in a region that has less of a big business presence than similarly sized metros has always been tricky, and one of the main reasons why a major-league franchise never gets much further than the dream-the-impossible-dream stage. Judy MacLeod's a popular scapegoat for CUSA's lacking media-rights deals, but wasn't Britton Banowsky the one to pull the conference out of the ESPN family? And let's call it like we see it — based on the way things stand now, if you were a power broker for a sports network, would you pay $2 million a year for what CUSA provides? I think there's a sense among some people here and on the CUSA board that there's a jackpot just out of reach that conference management refuses to pursue, but even though I think CUSA has more potential than it appears today, I don't see anyone beating down the door to add their content.
04-29-2019 12:56 PM
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Monarchblue Online
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Post: #64
RE: Jones gets a two year extension
I wouldn't say people are upset with Judy so much about the deal that is out there that she has failed to get, but rather that she has failed to properly manage the conference brand in a manner that would allow it to build a reputation that may eventually lead to better media deals. Example... the embarrassing conference tournament that makes the league look like it is the absolute bottom of the barrel. How do you hope to ever improve the image or grow the brand of the league when you do things that make the league look even smaller that it already is?
04-29-2019 01:41 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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Post: #65
RE: Jones gets a two year extension
(04-29-2019 01:41 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I wouldn't say people are upset with Judy so much about the deal that is out there that she has failed to get, but rather that she has failed to properly manage the conference brand in a manner that would allow it to build a reputation that may eventually lead to better media deals. Example... the embarrassing conference tournament that makes the league look like it is the absolute bottom of the barrel. How do you hope to ever improve the image or grow the brand of the league when you do things that make the league look even smaller that it already is?

I suspect that management decided to make some unconventional moves with media rights (Bein Sports), scheduling (pods) and the tournament because the conventional options weren't compelling.

I think most of us would agree that forcing the men's and women's tournaments to run simultaneously and in the same city is counterproductive and prevents many cities from putting bids in for one or the other, but it is what it is and within those confines, you have to get creative. I don't think the multiple-court setup worked as well as they hoped it would, but it did get them a little more attention than it would have otherwise, just for the novelty of it. It's a risk that didn't pay off, but going to Birmingham or El Paso (presuming they even bid this time) is never going to pay off. Realistically, CUSA has no business running a conventional tournament with the league footprint being what it is, but my guess is that not running a tournament at all would to them be bad optics, like it was the only conference that couldn't generate interest in one.

Ultimately, reputation is earned on the courts and fields. If the conference gets beaten down in OOC, can't sniff the NY6 bid and comes up with few good basketball wins, then all the marketing and communications wizardry won't amount to a hill of squat.
04-29-2019 02:04 PM
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Post: #66
RE: Jones gets a two year extension
(04-29-2019 02:04 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(04-29-2019 01:41 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I wouldn't say people are upset with Judy so much about the deal that is out there that she has failed to get, but rather that she has failed to properly manage the conference brand in a manner that would allow it to build a reputation that may eventually lead to better media deals. Example... the embarrassing conference tournament that makes the league look like it is the absolute bottom of the barrel. How do you hope to ever improve the image or grow the brand of the league when you do things that make the league look even smaller that it already is?

I suspect that management decided to make some unconventional moves with media rights (Bein Sports), scheduling (pods) and the tournament because the conventional options weren't compelling.

I think most of us would agree that forcing the men's and women's tournaments to run simultaneously and in the same city is counterproductive and prevents many cities from putting bids in for one or the other, but it is what it is and within those confines, you have to get creative. I don't think the multiple-court setup worked as well as they hoped it would, but it did get them a little more attention than it would have otherwise, just for the novelty of it. It's a risk that didn't pay off, but going to Birmingham or El Paso (presuming they even bid this time) is never going to pay off. Realistically, CUSA has no business running a conventional tournament with the league footprint being what it is, but my guess is that not running a tournament at all would to them be bad optics, like it was the only conference that couldn't generate interest in one.

Ultimately, reputation is earned on the courts and fields. If the conference gets beaten down in OOC, can't sniff the NY6 bid and comes up with few good basketball wins, then all the marketing and communications wizardry won't amount to a hill of squat.

The two bolded points...

1. It is the commissioner's job to lead the members in the right direction. The requirement of holding the men's and women's tournaments in the same location at the same time is a terrible idea that inhibits good locations from making a bid and should be at the top of the commissioner's list of things to change.

2. The tournament situation at the football practice field was not a gamble that didn't pay off. It was an obvious bad decision, that never had a chance of "paying off". Bad decisions do not equal bad luck.
04-29-2019 02:42 PM
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Post: #67
RE: Jones gets a two year extension
(04-29-2019 02:04 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(04-29-2019 01:41 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I wouldn't say people are upset with Judy so much about the deal that is out there that she has failed to get, but rather that she has failed to properly manage the conference brand in a manner that would allow it to build a reputation that may eventually lead to better media deals. Example... the embarrassing conference tournament that makes the league look like it is the absolute bottom of the barrel. How do you hope to ever improve the image or grow the brand of the league when you do things that make the league look even smaller that it already is?

Ultimately, reputation is earned on the courts and fields. If the conference gets beaten down in OOC, can't sniff the NY6 bid and comes up with few good basketball wins, then all the marketing and communications wizardry won't amount to a hill of squat.

This is simply not true. The basketball league has done enough in recent years to have improved its perception. Prior to this year, CUSA had 3 consecutive 1st round upsets.

Let's face it, many people, including "experts" don't pay any attention to leagues like ours until March. If you are playing in the Booplex with 12 people in attendance when they tune in, that affects perception.

To further explore the point, do you think that if we were playing to a sold out MSG in our conference tournament that the league's perception would not get a huge bump from that? Of course it would.

By the same token, finding a way to present the league's product in a better light, with full stadiums that look like places where college basketball should be played would, to a smaller degree, improve the overall perception of the league. Winning games in November leaves an impression that is not nearly as lasting as putting on a good show when the eyes are actually on the league.
04-29-2019 02:51 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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Post: #68
RE: Jones gets a two year extension
(04-29-2019 02:42 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  1. It is the commissioner's job to lead the members in the right direction. The requirement of holding the men's and women's tournaments in the same location at the same time is a terrible idea that inhibits good locations from making a bid and should be at the top of the commissioner's list of things to change.

Presumably there's a reason that the league administration wants this; CUSA has used the two-site, one-city setup since 2010. Personally I don't get it, but that doesn't mean it's not to be gotten. If she was insisting on the status quo in the face of overwhelming or unanimous opposition without a good reason, then that's a major concern.

Quote:2. The tournament situation at the football practice field was not a gamble that didn't pay off. It was an obvious bad decision, that never had a chance of "paying off". Bad decisions do not equal bad luck.

It was a high-risk attempt to do something different and it hasn't worked out the way we wanted it to. I gave it a chance but was unimpressed and can't imagine that changing in the next two years. But at the same time, I highly doubt that they knew it was a bad idea but decided to do it for funsies. They were trying something different. It almost certainly will be remembered as a failure barring anything miraculous. But they're professional administrators who work at the pleasure of the conference's school presidents, they're not going to make knowingly stupid decisions just because.

Quote:The basketball league has done enough in recent years to have improved its perception. Prior to this year, CUSA had 3 consecutive 1st round upsets.

That's enough to make people think of CUSA as an incubator of NCAA upsets, but it's not enough to elevate them to the level of the A-10 or AAC. When you're losing a large chunk of your OOC games while getting few quality wins, that speaks to the quality, of lack thereof, of the league.

Quote:Let's face it, many people, including "experts" don't pay any attention to leagues like ours until March. If you are playing in the Booplex with 12 people in attendance when they tune in, that affects perception.

At this level, a lot of conference-tournament games play out in front of sparse crowds unless they involve the home team and/or a team that travels well. I wish the title game got a far better butts-in-seats crowd, but short of playing it at the site of the higher seed, I don't see how that happens no matter where you play the tournament. And as we've seen with the football title game, even that's not always enough.

Quote:To further explore the point, do you think that if we were playing to a sold out MSG in our conference tournament that the league's perception would not get a huge bump from that? Of course it would.

If CUSA could attract MSG as a tournament host, its perception would already be beyond question.

Quote:By the same token, finding a way to present the league's product in a better light, with full stadiums that look like places where college basketball should be played would, to a smaller degree, improve the overall perception of the league. Winning games in November leaves an impression that is not nearly as lasting as putting on a good show when the eyes are actually on the league.

Full stadiums are the responsibility of the schools, not the conference. Everyone should either increase their attendance or play in smaller arenas so their crowds look better. Meanwhile, being consistently better in all metrics helps reputation, but you're underestimating what a strong start can do to build credibility in football and basketball. If March was all that mattered, CUSA would already be considered an upper-mid-major. It takes more than a string of first-weekend upsets to get there.
04-29-2019 03:39 PM
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mac Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Jones gets a two year extension
(04-29-2019 02:51 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(04-29-2019 02:04 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(04-29-2019 01:41 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I wouldn't say people are upset with Judy so much about the deal that is out there that she has failed to get, but rather that she has failed to properly manage the conference brand in a manner that would allow it to build a reputation that may eventually lead to better media deals. Example... the embarrassing conference tournament that makes the league look like it is the absolute bottom of the barrel. How do you hope to ever improve the image or grow the brand of the league when you do things that make the league look even smaller that it already is?

Ultimately, reputation is earned on the courts and fields. If the conference gets beaten down in OOC, can't sniff the NY6 bid and comes up with few good basketball wins, then all the marketing and communications wizardry won't amount to a hill of squat.

This is simply not true. The basketball league has done enough in recent years to have improved its perception. Prior to this year, CUSA had 3 consecutive 1st round upsets.

Let's face it, many people, including "experts" don't pay any attention to leagues like ours until March. If you are playing in the Booplex with 12 people in attendance when they tune in, that affects perception.

To further explore the point, do you think that if we were playing to a sold out MSG in our conference tournament that the league's perception would not get a huge bump from that? Of course it would.

By the same token, finding a way to present the league's product in a better light, with full stadiums that look like places where college basketball should be played would, to a smaller degree, improve the overall perception of the league. Winning games in November leaves an impression that is not nearly as lasting as putting on a good show when the eyes are actually on the league.

And yet didn’t the CUSA directors just approve a two year extension of having the tournament in that football practice joint? So it’s not just Judy, it’s the whole league. Sure wish we were in the A-10 too.
04-29-2019 03:41 PM
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Post: #70
RE: Jones gets a two year extension
(04-29-2019 12:38 PM)monarx Wrote:  From what we've read in the past, ODU football was actually making a little money, so at worst it is about a break even venture. If thats the case, we cant say football is taking any money from basketball since it's self sufficient. So yeah, they're in a slightly better hoops conference, but how much can an extra NCAA credit bring in? Maybe a couple 100k per school? Yet somehow VCU has found a way to pay their coach nearly $1million MORE than ours while they are paying for a crazy nice practice facility. That doesnt sit well with me.
They play in a bus league with minimal travel expenses and they have a large season ticket waiting list. Don't underestimate the travel. It isn't just the revenue sports. We have to pay for the 40 person women's basket weaving team and they 5 coaches plus Big Blue to go to El Paso every year too.

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04-29-2019 08:04 PM
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Post: #71
Jones gets a two year extension
Clearly communicated? There was no mention of Basketball except to say there were no plans to have seat licenses for basketball. I attended a town hall prior to which I met one on one with an ODAF rep. Never saw it mentioned in the info video or any written or emailed material. I did have back surgery and was a bit out of it the two weeks prior to Christmas but still checked email and opened snail mail.


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04-29-2019 11:45 PM
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Post: #72
Jones gets a two year extension
Oops meant to reply to basketball re-seating thread! First time replying with Tapatalk! Sorry!


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04-29-2019 11:48 PM
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Post: #73
RE: Jones gets a two year extension
(04-29-2019 08:04 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(04-29-2019 12:38 PM)monarx Wrote:  From what we've read in the past, ODU football was actually making a little money, so at worst it is about a break even venture. If thats the case, we cant say football is taking any money from basketball since it's self sufficient. So yeah, they're in a slightly better hoops conference, but how much can an extra NCAA credit bring in? Maybe a couple 100k per school? Yet somehow VCU has found a way to pay their coach nearly $1million MORE than ours while they are paying for a crazy nice practice facility. That doesnt sit well with me.
They play in a bus league with minimal travel expenses and they have a large season ticket waiting list. Don't underestimate the travel. It isn't just the revenue sports. We have to pay for the 40 person women's basket weaving team and they 5 coaches plus Big Blue to go to El Paso every year too.

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The A-10 a bus league? They're obviously busing to UR, Mason and GW, but no way they're busing to St. Louis, Dayton, UMass and URI. Probably not to Duquesne, Fordham or St. Bonaventure either. Maybe the Philly schools. No clue about Davidson. Plus they had road OOC games at MSG and Texas. They might spend less on travel than ODU, but they're not in the 2000-era CAA either.
04-30-2019 12:01 AM
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Post: #74
RE: Jones gets a two year extension
(04-30-2019 12:01 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(04-29-2019 08:04 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(04-29-2019 12:38 PM)monarx Wrote:  From what we've read in the past, ODU football was actually making a little money, so at worst it is about a break even venture. If thats the case, we cant say football is taking any money from basketball since it's self sufficient. So yeah, they're in a slightly better hoops conference, but how much can an extra NCAA credit bring in? Maybe a couple 100k per school? Yet somehow VCU has found a way to pay their coach nearly $1million MORE than ours while they are paying for a crazy nice practice facility. That doesnt sit well with me.
They play in a bus league with minimal travel expenses and they have a large season ticket waiting list. Don't underestimate the travel. It isn't just the revenue sports. We have to pay for the 40 person women's basket weaving team and they 5 coaches plus Big Blue to go to El Paso every year too.

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The A-10 a bus league? They're obviously busing to UR, Mason and GW, but no way they're busing to St. Louis, Dayton, UMass and URI. Probably not to Duquesne, Fordham or St. Bonaventure either. Maybe the Philly schools. No clue about Davidson. Plus they had road OOC games at MSG and Texas. They might spend less on travel than ODU, but they're not in the 2000-era CAA either.

They chartered to 11 games this past year at an avg of $95K / charter. That is close to $1M. ODU chartered to 2 maybe 3 game.
04-30-2019 07:01 AM
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