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Big 12 future Smart FB & BB additions
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MrCincy Offline
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Post: #1
Big 12 future Smart FB & BB additions
The Big 12 should add the following schools for future growth:
1. Colorado State
2. Houston Univ.
3. Memphis Univ.
4. Univ. of Cincinnati
5. USF
6. UCF
South Div.: 1. Texas 2. Texas Tech 3. Baylor 4. Houston 5. Oklahoma
6. Oklahoma State 7. Colorado State 8. TCU

North Div.; 1. West Virginia 2. UCF 3. USF 4. Memphis 5. Cincinnati 6. Iowa Stat 7. Kansas U. 8. Kansas State
Strong FB and BB conference with Millions of TV sets added to enhance the value of the entire conference.
04-16-2019 12:42 PM
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panite Offline
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RE: Big 12 future Smart FB & BB additions
Cinn and UConn for 12 - for 14 throw in UCF and BYU or USF. Don't think the Texas schools would want another Texas school such as Houston or SMU as that market is saturated with Texas, T. Tech, Baylor, and TCU already. 07-coffee3
06-10-2019 08:44 AM
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GE and MTS Offline
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RE: Big 12 future Smart FB & BB additions
I think the Big 12 needs to accomplish two goals in any realignment: get a travel partner(s) for West Virginia, and increase the demographics/base of the conference.

Let me begin by saying I don't expect the conference to be able to poach another P5 conference so any assumption will exclude current P5 schools. I think the best candidate for a travel partner is Cincinnati. They are about the only nearby school to WVU to be a credible P5 program and are a former BCS school. They have one of the strongest G5 brands and come from an excellent recruiting state. They provide some marketability as a brief former rival to WVU. They will infringe on Big Ten territory, with minor effect on SEC and ACC regions (Kentucky/Pittsburgh).

If the conference wants to stop at 12, I believe the last addition should be BYU. I would argue only adding as a football-only addition so as to avoid another WVU island issue and any potential Sunday scheduling issues. Regardless, they are arguably the top G5 brand with national appeal. Adding them will add eyeballs.

If the conference goes to 14 or more, I would add UCF and USF. Adding both solves another island situation that would occur if only adding one. In addition, they have something like a combined 100,000 undergraduates, the most likely future donors and rabid fans. Putting those two schools in a P5 conference could unlock their potential. They are already doing well recently. Adding both brings a homemade rivalry and infringes on the SEC and ACC territory.

BYU can be school #14 as mentioned above or they could add another. I would recommend Houston as the last choice if not BYU. I know that doesn't help the demographics that they need help with but the existing members may not want to give up games in Texas. 5 of 14 members in Texas is a lower percentage than 4 of 10.

I imagine divisions would be Texas and Oklahoma schools for a 12 team conference. BYU or Houston would be the 7th should they expand to 14 as I hypothesize above.

I think UConn is too far away from WVU to make sense as a travel partner unless added with Temple but that isn't as strong as the other pairs. Memphis doesn't really help the WVU situation, nor do they provide the demographics of the FL schools. Boise State just isn't close enough geographically. Colorado State has potential but is so far behind the other schools and kind of feels like a much inferior Colorado. Of course, my top choice is Liberty but that's an unrealistic choice behind so many others.
06-10-2019 09:18 PM
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Keswick_Crusaders_Forever51 Offline
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RE: Big 12 future Smart FB & BB additions
(06-10-2019 09:18 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I think the Big 12 needs to accomplish two goals in any realignment: get a travel partner(s) for West Virginia, and increase the demographics/base of the conference.

Let me begin by saying I don't expect the conference to be able to poach another P5 conference so any assumption will exclude current P5 schools. I think the best candidate for a travel partner is Cincinnati. They are about the only nearby school to WVU to be a credible P5 program and are a former BCS school. They have one of the strongest G5 brands and come from an excellent recruiting state. They provide some marketability as a brief former rival to WVU. They will infringe on Big Ten territory, with minor effect on SEC and ACC regions (Kentucky/Pittsburgh).

If the conference wants to stop at 12, I believe the last addition should be BYU. I would argue only adding as a football-only addition so as to avoid another WVU island issue and any potential Sunday scheduling issues. Regardless, they are arguably the top G5 brand with national appeal. Adding them will add eyeballs.

If the conference goes to 14 or more, I would add UCF and USF. Adding both solves another island situation that would occur if only adding one. In addition, they have something like a combined 100,000 undergraduates, the most likely future donors and rabid fans. Putting those two schools in a P5 conference could unlock their potential. They are already doing well recently. Adding both brings a homemade rivalry and infringes on the SEC and ACC territory.

BYU can be school #14 as mentioned above or they could add another. I would recommend Houston as the last choice if not BYU. I know that doesn't help the demographics that they need help with but the existing members may not want to give up games in Texas. 5 of 14 members in Texas is a lower percentage than 4 of 10.

I imagine divisions would be Texas and Oklahoma schools for a 12 team conference. BYU or Houston would be the 7th should they expand to 14 as I hypothesize above.

I think UConn is too far away from WVU to make sense as a travel partner unless added with Temple but that isn't as strong as the other pairs. Memphis doesn't really help the WVU situation, nor do they provide the demographics of the FL schools. Boise State just isn't close enough geographically. Colorado State has potential but is so far behind the other schools and kind of feels like a much inferior Colorado. Of course, my top choice is Liberty but that's an unrealistic choice behind so many others.

I would agree with this sentiment. You want to start pulling from Big 10, SEC, & ACC territory, as they have a great market.

On top of that, one issue that could really come back to bite the Big 12's expansion is turning down Houston & BYU previously, should you want them. If I'm those two schools, I'm looking at any & all offers (should they exist) before the Big 12 because of the embarrassment of nearly making the P5 & then being thrown to the side after all the hard work put in.

UCF, USF, & Cincinnati, however, do not have that to hold against you, & they want to join the big boys to have a shot at the big time. They are your first targets, in my opinion.
06-12-2019 02:05 PM
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panite Offline
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RE: Big 12 future Smart FB & BB additions
(06-12-2019 02:05 PM)Keswick_Crusaders_Forever51 Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 09:18 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I think the Big 12 needs to accomplish two goals in any realignment: get a travel partner(s) for West Virginia, and increase the demographics/base of the conference.

Let me begin by saying I don't expect the conference to be able to poach another P5 conference so any assumption will exclude current P5 schools. I think the best candidate for a travel partner is Cincinnati. They are about the only nearby school to WVU to be a credible P5 program and are a former BCS school. They have one of the strongest G5 brands and come from an excellent recruiting state. They provide some marketability as a brief former rival to WVU. They will infringe on Big Ten territory, with minor effect on SEC and ACC regions (Kentucky/Pittsburgh).

If the conference wants to stop at 12, I believe the last addition should be BYU. I would argue only adding as a football-only addition so as to avoid another WVU island issue and any potential Sunday scheduling issues. Regardless, they are arguably the top G5 brand with national appeal. Adding them will add eyeballs.

If the conference goes to 14 or more, I would add UCF and USF. Adding both solves another island situation that would occur if only adding one. In addition, they have something like a combined 100,000 undergraduates, the most likely future donors and rabid fans. Putting those two schools in a P5 conference could unlock their potential. They are already doing well recently. Adding both brings a homemade rivalry and infringes on the SEC and ACC territory.

BYU can be school #14 as mentioned above or they could add another. I would recommend Houston as the last choice if not BYU. I know that doesn't help the demographics that they need help with but the existing members may not want to give up games in Texas. 5 of 14 members in Texas is a lower percentage than 4 of 10.

I imagine divisions would be Texas and Oklahoma schools for a 12 team conference. BYU or Houston would be the 7th should they expand to 14 as I hypothesize above.

I think UConn is too far away from WVU to make sense as a travel partner unless added with Temple but that isn't as strong as the other pairs. Memphis doesn't really help the WVU situation, nor do they provide the demographics of the FL schools. Boise State just isn't close enough geographically. Colorado State has potential but is so far behind the other schools and kind of feels like a much inferior Colorado. Of course, my top choice is Liberty but that's an unrealistic choice behind so many others.

I would agree with this sentiment. You want to start pulling from Big 10, SEC, & ACC territory, as they have a great market.

On top of that, one issue that could really come back to bite the Big 12's expansion is turning down Houston & BYU previously, should you want them. If I'm those two schools, I'm looking at any & all offers (should they exist) before the Big 12 because of the embarrassment of nearly making the P5 & then being thrown to the side after all the hard work put in.

UCF, USF, & Cincinnati, however, do not have that to hold against you, & they want to join the big boys to have a shot at the big time. They are your first targets, in my opinion.

Houston and BYU would jump in a heart beat despite any previous rejections. Any school not named P5 would also jump at an invitation.
06-17-2019 11:57 AM
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panite Offline
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RE: Big 12 future Smart FB & BB additions
(06-10-2019 09:18 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I think the Big 12 needs to accomplish two goals in any realignment: get a travel partner(s) for West Virginia, and increase the demographics/base of the conference.

Let me begin by saying I don't expect the conference to be able to poach another P5 conference so any assumption will exclude current P5 schools. I think the best candidate for a travel partner is Cincinnati. They are about the only nearby school to WVU to be a credible P5 program and are a former BCS school. They have one of the strongest G5 brands and come from an excellent recruiting state. They provide some marketability as a brief former rival to WVU. They will infringe on Big Ten territory, with minor effect on SEC and ACC regions (Kentucky/Pittsburgh).

If the conference wants to stop at 12, I believe the last addition should be BYU. I would argue only adding as a football-only addition so as to avoid another WVU island issue and any potential Sunday scheduling issues. Regardless, they are arguably the top G5 brand with national appeal. Adding them will add eyeballs.

If the conference goes to 14 or more, I would add UCF and USF. Adding both solves another island situation that would occur if only adding one. In addition, they have something like a combined 100,000 undergraduates, the most likely future donors and rabid fans. Putting those two schools in a P5 conference could unlock their potential. They are already doing well recently. Adding both brings a homemade rivalry and infringes on the SEC and ACC territory.

BYU can be school #14 as mentioned above or they could add another. I would recommend Houston as the last choice if not BYU. I know that doesn't help the demographics that they need help with but the existing members may not want to give up games in Texas. 5 of 14 members in Texas is a lower percentage than 4 of 10.

I imagine divisions would be Texas and Oklahoma schools for a 12 team conference. BYU or Houston would be the 7th should they expand to 14 as I hypothesize above.

I think UConn is too far away from WVU to make sense as a travel partner unless added with Temple but that isn't as strong as the other pairs. Memphis doesn't really help the WVU situation, nor do they provide the demographics of the FL schools. Boise State just isn't close enough geographically. Colorado State has potential but is so far behind the other schools and kind of feels like a much inferior Colorado. Of course, my top choice is Liberty but that's an unrealistic choice behind so many others.

I don't think UConn is too far away. They travel to Florida, Texas, and Louisiana now in their current conference. Put them in a North Division with Cinn (if your stopping at 12) and you have captured a great BB rivalry with Kansas, Cinn, and WV. You have also expanded your markets to the Midwest - B10 country, and the NE - ACC country for a potential raise in TV revenue. Going to 14 with the UCF and USF would not only by pass another island issue but it would also put the B-12 in another top notch recruiting ground going against the SEC and ACC. 04-cheers Biggest miss in the last realignment was L'Ville. If the B-12 had taken L'Ville along with WV to get back to 12 along with TCU in the last cycle, any further expansion would be moot at this point in time. 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 06-17-2019 12:09 PM by panite.)
06-17-2019 12:08 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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RE: Big 12 future Smart FB & BB additions
(06-17-2019 12:08 PM)panite Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 09:18 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I think the Big 12 needs to accomplish two goals in any realignment: get a travel partner(s) for West Virginia, and increase the demographics/base of the conference.

Let me begin by saying I don't expect the conference to be able to poach another P5 conference so any assumption will exclude current P5 schools. I think the best candidate for a travel partner is Cincinnati. They are about the only nearby school to WVU to be a credible P5 program and are a former BCS school. They have one of the strongest G5 brands and come from an excellent recruiting state. They provide some marketability as a brief former rival to WVU. They will infringe on Big Ten territory, with minor effect on SEC and ACC regions (Kentucky/Pittsburgh).

If the conference wants to stop at 12, I believe the last addition should be BYU. I would argue only adding as a football-only addition so as to avoid another WVU island issue and any potential Sunday scheduling issues. Regardless, they are arguably the top G5 brand with national appeal. Adding them will add eyeballs.

If the conference goes to 14 or more, I would add UCF and USF. Adding both solves another island situation that would occur if only adding one. In addition, they have something like a combined 100,000 undergraduates, the most likely future donors and rabid fans. Putting those two schools in a P5 conference could unlock their potential. They are already doing well recently. Adding both brings a homemade rivalry and infringes on the SEC and ACC territory.

BYU can be school #14 as mentioned above or they could add another. I would recommend Houston as the last choice if not BYU. I know that doesn't help the demographics that they need help with but the existing members may not want to give up games in Texas. 5 of 14 members in Texas is a lower percentage than 4 of 10.

I imagine divisions would be Texas and Oklahoma schools for a 12 team conference. BYU or Houston would be the 7th should they expand to 14 as I hypothesize above.

I think UConn is too far away from WVU to make sense as a travel partner unless added with Temple but that isn't as strong as the other pairs. Memphis doesn't really help the WVU situation, nor do they provide the demographics of the FL schools. Boise State just isn't close enough geographically. Colorado State has potential but is so far behind the other schools and kind of feels like a much inferior Colorado. Of course, my top choice is Liberty but that's an unrealistic choice behind so many others.

I don't think UConn is too far away. They travel to Florida, Texas, and Louisiana now in their current conference. Put them in a North Division with Cinn (if your stopping at 12) and you have captured a great BB rivalry with Kansas, Cinn, and WV. You have also expanded your markets to the Midwest - B10 country, and the NE - ACC country for a potential raise in TV revenue. Going to 14 with the UCF and USF would not only by pass another island issue but it would also put the B-12 in another top notch recruiting ground going against the SEC and ACC. 04-cheers Biggest miss in the last realignment was L'Ville. If the B-12 had taken L'Ville along with WV to get back to 12 along with TCU in the last cycle, any further expansion would be moot at this point in time. 07-coffee3

I agree with most here but I can't agree that UConn would be an acceptable travel partner to WVU. It is an 8 hour 30 minute drive between the two.
06-17-2019 07:04 PM
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panite Offline
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RE: Big 12 future Smart FB & BB additions
(06-17-2019 07:04 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  
(06-17-2019 12:08 PM)panite Wrote:  
(06-10-2019 09:18 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I think the Big 12 needs to accomplish two goals in any realignment: get a travel partner(s) for West Virginia, and increase the demographics/base of the conference.

Let me begin by saying I don't expect the conference to be able to poach another P5 conference so any assumption will exclude current P5 schools. I think the best candidate for a travel partner is Cincinnati. They are about the only nearby school to WVU to be a credible P5 program and are a former BCS school. They have one of the strongest G5 brands and come from an excellent recruiting state. They provide some marketability as a brief former rival to WVU. They will infringe on Big Ten territory, with minor effect on SEC and ACC regions (Kentucky/Pittsburgh).

If the conference wants to stop at 12, I believe the last addition should be BYU. I would argue only adding as a football-only addition so as to avoid another WVU island issue and any potential Sunday scheduling issues. Regardless, they are arguably the top G5 brand with national appeal. Adding them will add eyeballs.

If the conference goes to 14 or more, I would add UCF and USF. Adding both solves another island situation that would occur if only adding one. In addition, they have something like a combined 100,000 undergraduates, the most likely future donors and rabid fans. Putting those two schools in a P5 conference could unlock their potential. They are already doing well recently. Adding both brings a homemade rivalry and infringes on the SEC and ACC territory.

BYU can be school #14 as mentioned above or they could add another. I would recommend Houston as the last choice if not BYU. I know that doesn't help the demographics that they need help with but the existing members may not want to give up games in Texas. 5 of 14 members in Texas is a lower percentage than 4 of 10.

I imagine divisions would be Texas and Oklahoma schools for a 12 team conference. BYU or Houston would be the 7th should they expand to 14 as I hypothesize above.

I think UConn is too far away from WVU to make sense as a travel partner unless added with Temple but that isn't as strong as the other pairs. Memphis doesn't really help the WVU situation, nor do they provide the demographics of the FL schools. Boise State just isn't close enough geographically. Colorado State has potential but is so far behind the other schools and kind of feels like a much inferior Colorado. Of course, my top choice is Liberty but that's an unrealistic choice behind so many others.

I don't think UConn is too far away. They travel to Florida, Texas, and Louisiana now in their current conference. Put them in a North Division with Cinn (if your stopping at 12) and you have captured a great BB rivalry with Kansas, Cinn, and WV. You have also expanded your markets to the Midwest - B10 country, and the NE - ACC country for a potential raise in TV revenue. Going to 14 with the UCF and USF would not only by pass another island issue but it would also put the B-12 in another top notch recruiting ground going against the SEC and ACC. 04-cheers Biggest miss in the last realignment was L'Ville. If the B-12 had taken L'Ville along with WV to get back to 12 along with TCU in the last cycle, any further expansion would be moot at this point in time. 07-coffee3

I agree with most here but I can't agree that UConn would be an acceptable travel partner to WVU. It is an 8 hour 30 minute drive between the two.

UConn wouldn't be the travel partner for WV if both UConn and Cinn were added to get to 12 members again. Cinn would be the so called "travel partner" if that's the terminology you want to use. UConn would be the new outlier / island replacing WV in that regard. However they would bring a new NE market as well as another great BB program to match with Kansas in the North Division when they get back to where they were in the Old Big East. Travel to the SW should not matter to them since they travel there and to Florida on a regular basis now in the AAC. The B-12 revenue in their pockets would certainly offset the travel costs for FB, BB, and the Olympic Sports. 04-cheers
06-20-2019 11:13 AM
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Steel Dragon Offline
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RE: Big 12 future Smart FB & BB additions
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(This post was last modified: 07-22-2019 11:03 PM by Steel Dragon.)
07-16-2019 08:29 PM
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RE: Big 12 future Smart FB & BB additions
Meh. For "smart" adds, the list should only include teams that increase the average value of the conference... that means a school that would be #3 or #4 behind Oklahoma and Texas. Only current P5 schools fit that mould. Otherwise there is no reason to expand. The island of West Virginia is 1 school's problem... no need to make it worse for the other 9 by adding schools in Florida or Connecticut.

10 works great for football and basketball... though there is an opportunity for increasing the number/quality of non-conference football games. A 3-way football scheduling agreement with the ACC and SEC is the best scenario I could see for the B12 that does not involve teams leaving for a P4 conference.
08-03-2019 11:55 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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RE: Big 12 future Smart FB & BB additions
(08-03-2019 11:55 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Meh. For "smart" adds, the list should only include teams that increase the average value of the conference... that means a school that would be #3 or #4 behind Oklahoma and Texas. Only current P5 schools fit that mould. Otherwise there is no reason to expand. The island of West Virginia is 1 school's problem... no need to make it worse for the other 9 by adding schools in Florida or Connecticut.

The island of West Virginia is not a "1-school" problem. It's a problem for everyone but West Virginia. Anytime they play at WVU in a sport other than football, they aren't able to save time and money by making it a two-school trip. For example, fly to WVU for a Thursday basketball game, then bus to Cincinnati or a Saturday game, then fly home. That's why it makes sense to add USF with UCF, or why it doesn't make sense to add BYU unless it is football-only since they have nobody nearby.

I don't know who would leave a P5 conference to join the Big 12. I don't think anyone who left would come back. Nobody is leaving the SEC and the ACC is bound together until 2036 or so. Maybe the Pac 12 but they are very distant from the Big 12 and are pretty tight-knit.
08-04-2019 06:13 AM
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