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UVU hires Laker asst. Mark Madsen
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LopesUp Offline
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Post: #21
RE: UVU hires Laker asst. Mark Madsen
(04-14-2019 08:04 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-14-2019 02:45 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  Yes, an amazing hire. He is not just a Coach... he is a Linguist, a Baker, and a Dancer. He is the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe he can teach his team the Madsen dance? Well, hopefully he is a better coach than dancer. 02-13-banana

Highlight video: Just MADSEN

It's an amazing hire because I did not think UVU could hire someone like Madsen. He was a star at Stanford, a first round pick in the NBA, a two-time NBA champion and has been an assistant in the NBA for the last seven seasons. He was a assistant at Stanford for one season under Johnny Dawkins, before the Lakers called. He was also in the final four for the BYU job that eventually went to Pope.

Wyatt Lowell, the freshman of the year in the WAC, is a Mormon. Jake Toolson, nephew of Danny Ainge, is a Mormon. I think Madsen can help convince these kids and others that the environment created under Pope will not change. Madsen can bring an energy and experience that might not only win a few more games, but also help these kids in any basketball career they may have after UVU. He can also show them that you can have other talents besides just being a good basketball player.

One more thing. Unlike Dan Majerle, I think he is a better fit for college basketball.
I'm interested in why you believe this? They have had similar coaching experience mostly stemming from the NBA. Dan had much more personal success in the NBA, it's not even close, while Mark, played on a Championship team. What do you believe is the difference that allows for Mark to be a better fit for the college game than Dan?
04-15-2019 06:22 PM
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LopesUp Offline
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Post: #22
RE: UVU hires Laker asst. Mark Madsen
(04-15-2019 08:42 AM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  
(04-15-2019 03:24 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  
(04-14-2019 09:45 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  Madsen has his work cut out for him. Pope won 26 games and had 300 fans in a 8500 seat arena for their CBI game. Pope couldn’t wake up a fanbase with 26 wins not sure Madsen can unless he plays the Majerle hype card.

Dude, UVU averaged 2K-3K fans per game or so. It's the CBI (where practically every teams fan base stopped caring) against a 13-21 Cal State Northridge team, not even the NIT.

Freaking DePaul could barely get 1,000+ to their CBI games.

Sure they did. If you watch any of their games all you see are empty chairs. UVU has probably 100 hardcore fans. Pope couldn't get out of there fast enough.
Agreed, I watched a lot of UVU games and the arena always looked so empty.
04-15-2019 06:25 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: UVU hires Laker asst. Mark Madsen
(04-15-2019 06:22 PM)LopesUp Wrote:  
(04-14-2019 08:04 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-14-2019 02:45 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  Yes, an amazing hire. He is not just a Coach... he is a Linguist, a Baker, and a Dancer. He is the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe he can teach his team the Madsen dance? Well, hopefully he is a better coach than dancer. 02-13-banana

Highlight video: Just MADSEN

It's an amazing hire because I did not think UVU could hire someone like Madsen. He was a star at Stanford, a first round pick in the NBA, a two-time NBA champion and has been an assistant in the NBA for the last seven seasons. He was a assistant at Stanford for one season under Johnny Dawkins, before the Lakers called. He was also in the final four for the BYU job that eventually went to Pope.

Wyatt Lowell, the freshman of the year in the WAC, is a Mormon. Jake Toolson, nephew of Danny Ainge, is a Mormon. I think Madsen can help convince these kids and others that the environment created under Pope will not change. Madsen can bring an energy and experience that might not only win a few more games, but also help these kids in any basketball career they may have after UVU. He can also show them that you can have other talents besides just being a good basketball player.

One more thing. Unlike Dan Majerle, I think he is a better fit for college basketball.
I'm interested in why you believe this? They have had similar coaching experience mostly stemming from the NBA. Dan had much more personal success in the NBA, it's not even close, while Mark, played on a Championship team. What do you believe is the difference that allows for Mark to be a better fit for the college game than Dan?

Majerle was an NBA star and Madsen was an NBA role player. Obviously, they both know basketball. Majerle has been a disappointment as a D1 head coach. His teams are good defensively and the recruiting has been very good. But do the recruited players fit whatever he is trying to do on offense? In the WAC Championship loss to NMSU, all of GCU's issues were apparent. They were out-rebounded 47-28. They shot 22% on threes, 7 for 31. NMSU had 18 assists, GCU only 7. Soft on the boards, bad three point field goal shooting and lack of ball movement were constant issues for GCU.

If Majerle wants to play isolation ball on offense, he should go back to the NBA. If he wants to compete with NMSU, he needs a Jemerrio Jones type of player. A Mark Madsen type of player would help. Guys that will do the dirty work. Majerle is not recruiting these types of players. Carlos Johnson is a terrific one-on-one talent and he destroyed Seattle and UVU, but NMSU just was not going to let that happen. They needed to be tougher and they needed better ball movement to beat NMSU. Maybe Majerle will eventually figure it out, but right now it has been disappointing.

I like Madsen's energy and enthusiasm. I think it is perfect for the college game. He spent a year at Stanford as an assistant coach and recruiter. Playing for Mike Montgomery and Phil Jackson helps. He was hired by Mike D'Antoni as an assistant, then by Byron Scott and then by Luke Walton. Like Majerle, he has an incredible array of contacts in the basketball world. Unlike Majerle, I think he knows what he wants to run offensively and what he wants to recruit for his team. Pope did not leave the cupboard bare, either.
04-16-2019 12:23 PM
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LopesUp Offline
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Post: #24
RE: UVU hires Laker asst. Mark Madsen
(04-16-2019 12:23 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-15-2019 06:22 PM)LopesUp Wrote:  
(04-14-2019 08:04 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-14-2019 02:45 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  Yes, an amazing hire. He is not just a Coach... he is a Linguist, a Baker, and a Dancer. He is the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe he can teach his team the Madsen dance? Well, hopefully he is a better coach than dancer. 02-13-banana

Highlight video: Just MADSEN

It's an amazing hire because I did not think UVU could hire someone like Madsen. He was a star at Stanford, a first round pick in the NBA, a two-time NBA champion and has been an assistant in the NBA for the last seven seasons. He was a assistant at Stanford for one season under Johnny Dawkins, before the Lakers called. He was also in the final four for the BYU job that eventually went to Pope.

Wyatt Lowell, the freshman of the year in the WAC, is a Mormon. Jake Toolson, nephew of Danny Ainge, is a Mormon. I think Madsen can help convince these kids and others that the environment created under Pope will not change. Madsen can bring an energy and experience that might not only win a few more games, but also help these kids in any basketball career they may have after UVU. He can also show them that you can have other talents besides just being a good basketball player.

One more thing. Unlike Dan Majerle, I think he is a better fit for college basketball.
I'm interested in why you believe this? They have had similar coaching experience mostly stemming from the NBA. Dan had much more personal success in the NBA, it's not even close, while Mark, played on a Championship team. What do you believe is the difference that allows for Mark to be a better fit for the college game than Dan?

Majerle was an NBA star and Madsen was an NBA role player. Obviously, they both know basketball. Majerle has been a disappointment as a D1 head coach. His teams are good defensively and the recruiting has been very good. But do the recruited players fit whatever he is trying to do on offense? In the WAC Championship loss to NMSU, all of GCU's issues were apparent. They were out-rebounded 47-28. They shot 22% on threes, 7 for 31. NMSU had 18 assists, GCU only 7. Soft on the boards, bad three point field goal shooting and lack of ball movement were constant issues for GCU.

If Majerle wants to play isolation ball on offense, he should go back to the NBA. If he wants to compete with NMSU, he needs a Jemerrio Jones type of player. A Mark Madsen type of player would help. Guys that will do the dirty work. Majerle is not recruiting these types of players. Carlos Johnson is a terrific one-on-one talent and he destroyed Seattle and UVU, but NMSU just was not going to let that happen. They needed to be tougher and they needed better ball movement to beat NMSU. Maybe Majerle will eventually figure it out, but right now it has been disappointing.

I like Madsen's energy and enthusiasm. I think it is perfect for the college game. He spent a year at Stanford as an assistant coach and recruiter. Playing for Mike Montgomery and Phil Jackson helps. He was hired by Mike D'Antoni as an assistant, then by Byron Scott and then by Luke Walton. Like Majerle, he has an incredible array of contacts in the basketball world. Unlike Majerle, I think he knows what he wants to run offensively and what he wants to recruit for his team. Pope did not leave the cupboard bare, either.

I know most of you don't like Dan for various reasons, some valid. But to say that "Majerle has been a disappointment as a D1 head coach" might be the most naive thing I have ever seen posted here and that's saying a lot (See Frank's Posts). Dan is 123–72 (.631) and has four consecutive 20 win seasons and his teams have made it to the WAC championship game the last two years they have been eligible. Coaching a team that has only been D1 for six seasons, four of those ineligible to participate in post season play due to NCAA rules. If any other coach has had this record you would call is a success. Shoot, people are falling all over themselves for Mark Pope who has two 20 win seasons and is 2-10 against Majerle coached teams. Majerle is a lot of things, disappointing, is not one.
Majerle does not run an ISO offense, it looked that way at the end of the season because of Los's success and others not playing to their ability. He adjusted. He doesn’t run a motion offense. He runs an offense for mismatches and quick-hitters and put guys in position where they can really succeed. He run's NBA pro sets, which can look like Iso ball at times, but it's because he tries to put guys in the right spot.
You seem like a newer poster, so you may not have seen all of Dan's teams, but he has had guys like you describe i.e. (Grandy Glaze and Kenota Vernon).
Look, I'm not saying I don't have my own issues with Dan and not meeting the expectations that have been set. Do I wish he would keep his mouth shut at time, yes. Do I wish he was not so honest (something everyone says they want, but when it happens...) on the radio broadcast, absolutely. Does he have to learn about coaching the college game, you bet your ass. I know it, you know it, he knows it. He needs to improve, I think all head coaches would say them about themselves.
A disappointment... he is not. 05-nono
04-16-2019 01:06 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: UVU hires Laker asst. Mark Madsen
LopesUp, I think Majerle has been a disappointment. First, as I said earlier, his teams play good defense and he has recruited well. He has done a heck of a job of scheduling non-conference opponents. To get a home-and-home with San Diego State is impressive. To get a home-and-home with Louisville is off the charts impressive.

The thing is, Majerle has a bunch of advantages coaching at GCU. The basketball budget of $5.3 million is much larger than any other WAC school. As a comparison, UVU had a basketball budget of $1.8 million. Could Majerle do what Pope did at UVU? I really doubt it.

The facilities and the fan support are outstanding for a mid-major. So how does GCU lose to Texas by 38? Or NMSU by 32? Over the past two seasons, there have been few quality wins outside of conference and zero wins over rival NMSU in six games. I thought GCU had the best roster going into the season. Then Frayer and Lever regressed.

I realize they are running pro sets, but they are running a lot of isolation off of that. Carlos Johnson took nine shots against NMSU in the WAC Championship and seven were three pointers. They kept him out of the paint. After scoring 35 against UVU and 31 against Seattle, the Aggies shut him down, held him to nine points and that was it. With no player or ball movement, they became a stagnant offense launching shots from the outside.

I liked Majerle as a player and I thought he did a good job the first four seasons as a head coach at GCU. The past two seasons I thought his team underperformed and considering the financial advantages that GCU has, it can't be seen as anything but disappointing.

By the way, I am not a new poster on the WAC Board. I would imagine that I have been here longer than you have. If you think my post is the worst you have ever seen on the WAC board, then that may be the must naïve post that I have seen posted here.
04-16-2019 04:22 PM
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LopesUp Offline
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Post: #26
RE: UVU hires Laker asst. Mark Madsen
(04-16-2019 04:22 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  LopesUp, I think Majerle has been a disappointment. First, as I said earlier, his teams play good defense and he has recruited well. He has done a heck of a job of scheduling non-conference opponents. To get a home-and-home with San Diego State is impressive. To get a home-and-home with Louisville is off the charts impressive.

The thing is, Majerle has a bunch of advantages coaching at GCU. The basketball budget of $5.3 million is much larger than any other WAC school. As a comparison, UVU had a basketball budget of $1.8 million. Could Majerle do what Pope did at UVU? I really doubt it.

The facilities and the fan support are outstanding for a mid-major. So how does GCU lose to Texas by 38? Or NMSU by 32? Over the past two seasons, there have been few quality wins outside of conference and zero wins over rival NMSU in six games. I thought GCU had the best roster going into the season. Then Frayer and Lever regressed.

I realize they are running pro sets, but they are running a lot of isolation off of that. Carlos Johnson took nine shots against NMSU in the WAC Championship and seven were three pointers. They kept him out of the paint. After scoring 35 against UVU and 31 against Seattle, the Aggies shut him down, held him to nine points and that was it. With no player or ball movement, they became a stagnant offense launching shots from the outside.

I liked Majerle as a player and I thought he did a good job the first four seasons as a head coach at GCU. The past two seasons I thought his team underperformed and considering the financial advantages that GCU has, it can't be seen as anything but disappointing.

By the way, I am not a new poster on the WAC Board. I would imagine that I have been here longer than you have. If you think my post is the worst you have ever seen on the WAC board, then that may be the must naïve post that I have seen posted here.

I don't know man. I have been posting here since we switched to this forum. I had been posting since we were in whatever that other forum was since 2014. I'm pretty sure I was the first GCU poster here. I was giving the board updates on GCU playing Pacific in GCU's first season as a D1 when they played in the CIT. Back when Dancing still liked us ha ha.

Anyway, I suppose we disagree on verbiage. I guess you can say he has under performed? I just don't think any coach who has a team in D1 for only 6 years, who wins the majority of his games and beats everyone in the WAC except NMSU and has made it to two WAC Finals (though they have been destroyed) is a disappointment.

I will never see how the fan support has anything to do with Wins and Losses. It's a great story for the media, but I think real sports fans realize it's cool and all, but does not mean a damn thing.

As far as budget goes, I don't really know what that buys you? Facilities? Pay your coaches more? Does that even matter? All coaches have to follow the sames rules as far as contact with players in recruiting and practicing, so money can't buy you that. I'm sure money helps, but I am not one for blanket statements saying, well you have more money, so you should always win and if you don't you suck.

NMSU has a lower budget then their in-state rival and look how they have whooped UNM's ass for years and GCU's for that matter. I think they will tell you that budget don't mean a thing.

So you can't have it both ways.

I never said your post was the worst... go back and take a look friend.

Also, you stated that this team was his "supposed" to be his best team. No GCU fan I know believed that. We all thought GCU would finish 4th. We got a glimmer of hope when Los was approved to play this season and thought maybe they cold make a run. We all thought the 19/20 team would be better with Los (who was able to play earlier) JJ Rhymes, Isaih Brown, Mikey Dixon, and Freshmen Jovan Blacksher.

Neither of these teams have been Majerle's best team. His best team was the 15/16 season. 27-7 (11-3) in WAC Play. Won the Global Sports Classic in Vegas beating Houston and Marshall. Beat SDSU and Central Michigan. Went to the third round of the CIT. That was GCU's best team to date.
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2019 06:02 PM by LopesUp.)
04-16-2019 05:44 PM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #27
RE: UVU hires Laker asst. Mark Madsen
(04-16-2019 12:23 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-15-2019 06:22 PM)LopesUp Wrote:  
(04-14-2019 08:04 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-14-2019 02:45 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  Yes, an amazing hire. He is not just a Coach... he is a Linguist, a Baker, and a Dancer. He is the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe he can teach his team the Madsen dance? Well, hopefully he is a better coach than dancer. 02-13-banana

Highlight video: Just MADSEN

It's an amazing hire because I did not think UVU could hire someone like Madsen. He was a star at Stanford, a first round pick in the NBA, a two-time NBA champion and has been an assistant in the NBA for the last seven seasons. He was a assistant at Stanford for one season under Johnny Dawkins, before the Lakers called. He was also in the final four for the BYU job that eventually went to Pope.

Wyatt Lowell, the freshman of the year in the WAC, is a Mormon. Jake Toolson, nephew of Danny Ainge, is a Mormon. I think Madsen can help convince these kids and others that the environment created under Pope will not change. Madsen can bring an energy and experience that might not only win a few more games, but also help these kids in any basketball career they may have after UVU. He can also show them that you can have other talents besides just being a good basketball player.

One more thing. Unlike Dan Majerle, I think he is a better fit for college basketball.
I'm interested in why you believe this? They have had similar coaching experience mostly stemming from the NBA. Dan had much more personal success in the NBA, it's not even close, while Mark, played on a Championship team. What do you believe is the difference that allows for Mark to be a better fit for the college game than Dan?

Majerle was an NBA star and Madsen was an NBA role player. Obviously, they both know basketball. Majerle has been a disappointment as a D1 head coach. His teams are good defensively and the recruiting has been very good. But do the recruited players fit whatever he is trying to do on offense? In the WAC Championship loss to NMSU, all of GCU's issues were apparent. They were out-rebounded 47-28. They shot 22% on threes, 7 for 31. NMSU had 18 assists, GCU only 7. Soft on the boards, bad three point field goal shooting and lack of ball movement were constant issues for GCU.

If Majerle wants to play isolation ball on offense, he should go back to the NBA. If he wants to compete with NMSU, he needs a Jemerrio Jones type of player. A Mark Madsen type of player would help. Guys that will do the dirty work. Majerle is not recruiting these types of players. Carlos Johnson is a terrific one-on-one talent and he destroyed Seattle and UVU, but NMSU just was not going to let that happen. They needed to be tougher and they needed better ball movement to beat NMSU. Maybe Majerle will eventually figure it out, but right now it has been disappointing.

I like Madsen's energy and enthusiasm. I think it is perfect for the college game. He spent a year at Stanford as an assistant coach and recruiter. Playing for Mike Montgomery and Phil Jackson helps. He was hired by Mike D'Antoni as an assistant, then by Byron Scott and then by Luke Walton. Like Majerle, he has an incredible array of contacts in the basketball world. Unlike Majerle, I think he knows what he wants to run offensively and what he wants to recruit for his team. Pope did not leave the cupboard bare, either.

What is this comment based on? He has never been a college HC, so how can you make this statement?
04-17-2019 11:21 AM
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PojoaquePosse Offline
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Post: #28
RE: UVU hires Laker asst. Mark Madsen
(04-16-2019 01:06 PM)LopesUp Wrote:  
(04-16-2019 12:23 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-15-2019 06:22 PM)LopesUp Wrote:  
(04-14-2019 08:04 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-14-2019 02:45 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  Yes, an amazing hire. He is not just a Coach... he is a Linguist, a Baker, and a Dancer. He is the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe he can teach his team the Madsen dance? Well, hopefully he is a better coach than dancer. 02-13-banana

Highlight video: Just MADSEN

It's an amazing hire because I did not think UVU could hire someone like Madsen. He was a star at Stanford, a first round pick in the NBA, a two-time NBA champion and has been an assistant in the NBA for the last seven seasons. He was a assistant at Stanford for one season under Johnny Dawkins, before the Lakers called. He was also in the final four for the BYU job that eventually went to Pope.

Wyatt Lowell, the freshman of the year in the WAC, is a Mormon. Jake Toolson, nephew of Danny Ainge, is a Mormon. I think Madsen can help convince these kids and others that the environment created under Pope will not change. Madsen can bring an energy and experience that might not only win a few more games, but also help these kids in any basketball career they may have after UVU. He can also show them that you can have other talents besides just being a good basketball player.

One more thing. Unlike Dan Majerle, I think he is a better fit for college basketball.
I'm interested in why you believe this? They have had similar coaching experience mostly stemming from the NBA. Dan had much more personal success in the NBA, it's not even close, while Mark, played on a Championship team. What do you believe is the difference that allows for Mark to be a better fit for the college game than Dan?

Majerle was an NBA star and Madsen was an NBA role player. Obviously, they both know basketball. Majerle has been a disappointment as a D1 head coach. His teams are good defensively and the recruiting has been very good. But do the recruited players fit whatever he is trying to do on offense? In the WAC Championship loss to NMSU, all of GCU's issues were apparent. They were out-rebounded 47-28. They shot 22% on threes, 7 for 31. NMSU had 18 assists, GCU only 7. Soft on the boards, bad three point field goal shooting and lack of ball movement were constant issues for GCU.

If Majerle wants to play isolation ball on offense, he should go back to the NBA. If he wants to compete with NMSU, he needs a Jemerrio Jones type of player. A Mark Madsen type of player would help. Guys that will do the dirty work. Majerle is not recruiting these types of players. Carlos Johnson is a terrific one-on-one talent and he destroyed Seattle and UVU, but NMSU just was not going to let that happen. They needed to be tougher and they needed better ball movement to beat NMSU. Maybe Majerle will eventually figure it out, but right now it has been disappointing.

I like Madsen's energy and enthusiasm. I think it is perfect for the college game. He spent a year at Stanford as an assistant coach and recruiter. Playing for Mike Montgomery and Phil Jackson helps. He was hired by Mike D'Antoni as an assistant, then by Byron Scott and then by Luke Walton. Like Majerle, he has an incredible array of contacts in the basketball world. Unlike Majerle, I think he knows what he wants to run offensively and what he wants to recruit for his team. Pope did not leave the cupboard bare, either.

I know most of you don't like Dan for various reasons, some valid. But to say that "Majerle has been a disappointment as a D1 head coach" might be the most naive thing I have ever seen posted here and that's saying a lot (See Frank's Posts). Dan is 123–72 (.631) and has four consecutive 20 win seasons and his teams have made it to the WAC championship game the last two years they have been eligible. Coaching a team that has only been D1 for six seasons, four of those ineligible to participate in post season play due to NCAA rules. If any other coach has had this record you would call is a success. Shoot, people are falling all over themselves for Mark Pope who has two 20 win seasons and is 2-10 against Majerle coached teams. Majerle is a lot of things, disappointing, is not one.
Majerle does not run an ISO offense, it looked that way at the end of the season because of Los's success and others not playing to their ability. He adjusted. He doesn’t run a motion offense. He runs an offense for mismatches and quick-hitters and put guys in position where they can really succeed. He run's NBA pro sets, which can look like Iso ball at times, but it's because he tries to put guys in the right spot.
You seem like a newer poster, so you may not have seen all of Dan's teams, but he has had guys like you describe i.e. (Grandy Glaze and Kenota Vernon).
Look, I'm not saying I don't have my own issues with Dan and not meeting the expectations that have been set. Do I wish he would keep his mouth shut at time, yes. Do I wish he was not so honest (something everyone says they want, but when it happens...) on the radio broadcast, absolutely. Does he have to learn about coaching the college game, you bet your ass. I know it, you know it, he knows it. He needs to improve, I think all head coaches would say them about themselves.
A disappointment... he is not. 05-nono

I agree with pretty much all of this. I don't get the people that say Thunder Tan is a bad coach. His record speaks for itself. Now do I believe he can take GCU to the next level? I think the jury is out on that claim and I suspect he is pretty darn close to his ceiling. But 20 win seasons and appearances in conference title games would seem to denote he's a decent coach. He has also played NMSU very close in several games and even snuck out a couple wins. I agree that he has under performed but don't think he is a disappointment. LopesUp, I though you had won the argument until...
04-17-2019 11:27 AM
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Post: #29
RE: UVU hires Laker asst. Mark Madsen
(04-16-2019 04:22 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  LopesUp, I think Majerle has been a disappointment. First, as I said earlier, his teams play good defense and he has recruited well. He has done a heck of a job of scheduling non-conference opponents. To get a home-and-home with San Diego State is impressive. To get a home-and-home with Louisville is off the charts impressive.

The thing is, Majerle has a bunch of advantages coaching at GCU. The basketball budget of $5.3 million is much larger than any other WAC school. As a comparison, UVU had a basketball budget of $1.8 million. Could Majerle do what Pope did at UVU? I really doubt it.

The facilities and the fan support are outstanding for a mid-major. So how does GCU lose to Texas by 38? Or NMSU by 32? Over the past two seasons, there have been few quality wins outside of conference and zero wins over rival NMSU in six games. I thought GCU had the best roster going into the season. Then Frayer and Lever regressed.

I realize they are running pro sets, but they are running a lot of isolation off of that. Carlos Johnson took nine shots against NMSU in the WAC Championship and seven were three pointers. They kept him out of the paint. After scoring 35 against UVU and 31 against Seattle, the Aggies shut him down, held him to nine points and that was it. With no player or ball movement, they became a stagnant offense launching shots from the outside.

I liked Majerle as a player and I thought he did a good job the first four seasons as a head coach at GCU. The past two seasons I thought his team underperformed and considering the financial advantages that GCU has, it can't be seen as anything but disappointing.

By the way, I am not a new poster on the WAC Board. I would imagine that I have been here longer than you have. If you think my post is the worst you have ever seen on the WAC board, then that may be the must naïve post that I have seen posted here.

...I read this post. Very valid points. The budget and resources that GCU has are a big advantage. But the way I look at it, those advantages helped GCU to immediately make an impact in the WAC in their D1 move up. I think it is unrealistic to expect them to make annual runs to the NCAA when they have only been D1 for 6 years and eligible for 2. Yet in those 2 years, they were a win away form the NCAA tourney. But their OOC schedule has been underwhelming and bad losses on the P5 stage is not a good look.
04-17-2019 11:31 AM
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LopesUp Offline
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Post: #30
RE: UVU hires Laker asst. Mark Madsen
(04-17-2019 11:27 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(04-16-2019 01:06 PM)LopesUp Wrote:  
(04-16-2019 12:23 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(04-15-2019 06:22 PM)LopesUp Wrote:  
(04-14-2019 08:04 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  It's an amazing hire because I did not think UVU could hire someone like Madsen. He was a star at Stanford, a first round pick in the NBA, a two-time NBA champion and has been an assistant in the NBA for the last seven seasons. He was a assistant at Stanford for one season under Johnny Dawkins, before the Lakers called. He was also in the final four for the BYU job that eventually went to Pope.

Wyatt Lowell, the freshman of the year in the WAC, is a Mormon. Jake Toolson, nephew of Danny Ainge, is a Mormon. I think Madsen can help convince these kids and others that the environment created under Pope will not change. Madsen can bring an energy and experience that might not only win a few more games, but also help these kids in any basketball career they may have after UVU. He can also show them that you can have other talents besides just being a good basketball player.

One more thing. Unlike Dan Majerle, I think he is a better fit for college basketball.
I'm interested in why you believe this? They have had similar coaching experience mostly stemming from the NBA. Dan had much more personal success in the NBA, it's not even close, while Mark, played on a Championship team. What do you believe is the difference that allows for Mark to be a better fit for the college game than Dan?

Majerle was an NBA star and Madsen was an NBA role player. Obviously, they both know basketball. Majerle has been a disappointment as a D1 head coach. His teams are good defensively and the recruiting has been very good. But do the recruited players fit whatever he is trying to do on offense? In the WAC Championship loss to NMSU, all of GCU's issues were apparent. They were out-rebounded 47-28. They shot 22% on threes, 7 for 31. NMSU had 18 assists, GCU only 7. Soft on the boards, bad three point field goal shooting and lack of ball movement were constant issues for GCU.

If Majerle wants to play isolation ball on offense, he should go back to the NBA. If he wants to compete with NMSU, he needs a Jemerrio Jones type of player. A Mark Madsen type of player would help. Guys that will do the dirty work. Majerle is not recruiting these types of players. Carlos Johnson is a terrific one-on-one talent and he destroyed Seattle and UVU, but NMSU just was not going to let that happen. They needed to be tougher and they needed better ball movement to beat NMSU. Maybe Majerle will eventually figure it out, but right now it has been disappointing.

I like Madsen's energy and enthusiasm. I think it is perfect for the college game. He spent a year at Stanford as an assistant coach and recruiter. Playing for Mike Montgomery and Phil Jackson helps. He was hired by Mike D'Antoni as an assistant, then by Byron Scott and then by Luke Walton. Like Majerle, he has an incredible array of contacts in the basketball world. Unlike Majerle, I think he knows what he wants to run offensively and what he wants to recruit for his team. Pope did not leave the cupboard bare, either.

I know most of you don't like Dan for various reasons, some valid. But to say that "Majerle has been a disappointment as a D1 head coach" might be the most naive thing I have ever seen posted here and that's saying a lot (See Frank's Posts). Dan is 123–72 (.631) and has four consecutive 20 win seasons and his teams have made it to the WAC championship game the last two years they have been eligible. Coaching a team that has only been D1 for six seasons, four of those ineligible to participate in post season play due to NCAA rules. If any other coach has had this record you would call is a success. Shoot, people are falling all over themselves for Mark Pope who has two 20 win seasons and is 2-10 against Majerle coached teams. Majerle is a lot of things, disappointing, is not one.
Majerle does not run an ISO offense, it looked that way at the end of the season because of Los's success and others not playing to their ability. He adjusted. He doesn’t run a motion offense. He runs an offense for mismatches and quick-hitters and put guys in position where they can really succeed. He run's NBA pro sets, which can look like Iso ball at times, but it's because he tries to put guys in the right spot.
You seem like a newer poster, so you may not have seen all of Dan's teams, but he has had guys like you describe i.e. (Grandy Glaze and Kenota Vernon).
Look, I'm not saying I don't have my own issues with Dan and not meeting the expectations that have been set. Do I wish he would keep his mouth shut at time, yes. Do I wish he was not so honest (something everyone says they want, but when it happens...) on the radio broadcast, absolutely. Does he have to learn about coaching the college game, you bet your ass. I know it, you know it, he knows it. He needs to improve, I think all head coaches would say them about themselves.
A disappointment... he is not. 05-nono

I agree with pretty much all of this. I don't get the people that say Thunder Tan is a bad coach. His record speaks for itself. Now do I believe he can take GCU to the next level? I think the jury is out on that claim and I suspect he is pretty darn close to his ceiling. But 20 win seasons and appearances in conference title games would seem to denote he's a decent coach. He has also played NMSU very close in several games and even snuck out a couple wins. I agree that he has under performed but don't think he is a disappointment. LopesUp, I though you had won the argument until...

I'm getting close to feeling the same way here. I think Dan has done a fine job and is far from a disappointment. That being said Dan needs to make some strides in the next two years. Those strides being walk the talk. If you going to say being WAC champ is the goal, then you have to get there sooner than later. In my mind Dan has two more seasons to accomplish that. If he doesn't, may be time to move on.
04-17-2019 12:39 PM
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LopesUp Offline
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Post: #31
RE: UVU hires Laker asst. Mark Madsen
(04-17-2019 11:31 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  
(04-16-2019 04:22 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  LopesUp, I think Majerle has been a disappointment. First, as I said earlier, his teams play good defense and he has recruited well. He has done a heck of a job of scheduling non-conference opponents. To get a home-and-home with San Diego State is impressive. To get a home-and-home with Louisville is off the charts impressive.

The thing is, Majerle has a bunch of advantages coaching at GCU. The basketball budget of $5.3 million is much larger than any other WAC school. As a comparison, UVU had a basketball budget of $1.8 million. Could Majerle do what Pope did at UVU? I really doubt it.

The facilities and the fan support are outstanding for a mid-major. So how does GCU lose to Texas by 38? Or NMSU by 32? Over the past two seasons, there have been few quality wins outside of conference and zero wins over rival NMSU in six games. I thought GCU had the best roster going into the season. Then Frayer and Lever regressed.

I realize they are running pro sets, but they are running a lot of isolation off of that. Carlos Johnson took nine shots against NMSU in the WAC Championship and seven were three pointers. They kept him out of the paint. After scoring 35 against UVU and 31 against Seattle, the Aggies shut him down, held him to nine points and that was it. With no player or ball movement, they became a stagnant offense launching shots from the outside.

I liked Majerle as a player and I thought he did a good job the first four seasons as a head coach at GCU. The past two seasons I thought his team underperformed and considering the financial advantages that GCU has, it can't be seen as anything but disappointing.

By the way, I am not a new poster on the WAC Board. I would imagine that I have been here longer than you have. If you think my post is the worst you have ever seen on the WAC board, then that may be the must naïve post that I have seen posted here.

...I read this post. Very valid points. The budget and resources that GCU has are a big advantage. But the way I look at it, those advantages helped GCU to immediately make an impact in the WAC in their D1 move up. I think it is unrealistic to expect them to make annual runs to the NCAA when they have only been D1 for 6 years and eligible for 2. Yet in those 2 years, they were a win away form the NCAA tourney. But their OOC schedule has been underwhelming and bad losses on the P5 stage is not a good look.

Obviously money helps, but it doesn't translate into wins. All it means is that GCU pays their head coach and staff way more money than the rest of the WAC. Most of the WAC should be happy about that since they think Dan sucks and it's wasted money.

As a NMSU fan, you know that well. What your athletic department does with its budget is impressive. I am a big fan of Super Mario. Money is cool, and all, but living on a budget and succeeding in life is rewarding.

As for the other WAC schools. Money matters only to the man with the small mind.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2019 12:49 PM by LopesUp.)
04-17-2019 12:47 PM
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gleadley Offline
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Post: #32
RE: UVU hires Laker asst. Mark Madsen
As so eloquently stated by noted 21st century poet Kanye West, "Having money's not everything, and not having it is."
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2019 01:43 PM by gleadley.)
04-17-2019 01:29 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: UVU hires Laker asst. Mark Madsen
(04-16-2019 05:44 PM)LopesUp Wrote:  
(04-16-2019 04:22 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  LopesUp, I think Majerle has been a disappointment. First, as I said earlier, his teams play good defense and he has recruited well. He has done a heck of a job of scheduling non-conference opponents. To get a home-and-home with San Diego State is impressive. To get a home-and-home with Louisville is off the charts impressive.

The thing is, Majerle has a bunch of advantages coaching at GCU. The basketball budget of $5.3 million is much larger than any other WAC school. As a comparison, UVU had a basketball budget of $1.8 million. Could Majerle do what Pope did at UVU? I really doubt it.

The facilities and the fan support are outstanding for a mid-major. So how does GCU lose to Texas by 38? Or NMSU by 32? Over the past two seasons, there have been few quality wins outside of conference and zero wins over rival NMSU in six games. I thought GCU had the best roster going into the season. Then Frayer and Lever regressed.

I realize they are running pro sets, but they are running a lot of isolation off of that. Carlos Johnson took nine shots against NMSU in the WAC Championship and seven were three pointers. They kept him out of the paint. After scoring 35 against UVU and 31 against Seattle, the Aggies shut him down, held him to nine points and that was it. With no player or ball movement, they became a stagnant offense launching shots from the outside.

I liked Majerle as a player and I thought he did a good job the first four seasons as a head coach at GCU. The past two seasons I thought his team underperformed and considering the financial advantages that GCU has, it can't be seen as anything but disappointing.

By the way, I am not a new poster on the WAC Board. I would imagine that I have been here longer than you have. If you think my post is the worst you have ever seen on the WAC board, then that may be the must naïve post that I have seen posted here.

I don't know man. I have been posting here since we switched to this forum. I had been posting since we were in whatever that other forum was since 2014. I'm pretty sure I was the first GCU poster here. I was giving the board updates on GCU playing Pacific in GCU's first season as a D1 when they played in the CIT. Back when Dancing still liked us ha ha.

Anyway, I suppose we disagree on verbiage. I guess you can say he has under performed? I just don't think any coach who has a team in D1 for only 6 years, who wins the majority of his games and beats everyone in the WAC except NMSU and has made it to two WAC Finals (though they have been destroyed) is a disappointment.

I will never see how the fan support has anything to do with Wins and Losses. It's a great story for the media, but I think real sports fans realize it's cool and all, but does not mean a damn thing.

As far as budget goes, I don't really know what that buys you? Facilities? Pay your coaches more? Does that even matter? All coaches have to follow the sames rules as far as contact with players in recruiting and practicing, so money can't buy you that. I'm sure money helps, but I am not one for blanket statements saying, well you have more money, so you should always win and if you don't you suck.

NMSU has a lower budget then their in-state rival and look how they have whooped UNM's ass for years and GCU's for that matter. I think they will tell you that budget don't mean a thing.

So you can't have it both ways.

I never said your post was the worst... go back and take a look friend.

Also, you stated that this team was his "supposed" to be his best team. No GCU fan I know believed that. We all thought GCU would finish 4th. We got a glimmer of hope when Los was approved to play this season and thought maybe they cold make a run. We all thought the 19/20 team would be better with Los (who was able to play earlier) JJ Rhymes, Isaih Brown, Mikey Dixon, and Freshmen Jovan Blacksher.

Neither of these teams have been Majerle's best team. His best team was the 15/16 season. 27-7 (11-3) in WAC Play. Won the Global Sports Classic in Vegas beating Houston and Marshall. Beat SDSU and Central Michigan. Went to the third round of the CIT. That was GCU's best team to date.

Here are the 2017-2018 basketball revenue numbers provided to the Department of Education:

Grand Canyon - $5,337,280
Seattle - $2,993,341
NMSU - $2,485,019
CSUB - $2,172,991
UVU - $1,861,238
UMKC - $1,859,426
CBU - $1,768,970
UTRGV - $1,589,120
Chicago State - $1,192,542

Money is everything. It determines what kind of head coach you can hire. It has a big impact on recruiting. It helps with the cost of attendance, travel, accommodations, nutrition. The quality of your assistant coaches and training staff. It is hard to keep a good head coach at a mid-major school because of the money schools with bigger budgets can offer. If you think NMSU is tough to beat right now, give them another $3 million in basketball to spend and find out how tough they can really be.

The facilities have enhanced recruiting at GCU. GCU has a five-star practice facility that features three courts, offices for men's and women's basketball, a lounge for each team and a film room. Majerle can watch practice from the second-floor balcony outside his office. Very impressive. From Dan Majerle, "Our ultimate goal is to be a top-25 team, to be the next Gonzaga or a Butler. And we have all the tools to do that."

You may think your team was no better than 4th place, but the media and coaches in the WAC would disagree:

https://www.wacsports.com/sports/mbkb/20...1009lu3j57

Grand Canyon was picked for 2nd in the WAC and got two first place votes from WAC coaches. Frayer and Lever were selected first team All-WAC. Lever was selected preseason WAC POY. So what happened?

You guys had a good 2015-2016 season. I was thinking that in two years you guys are going to give opponents a lot of headaches. As Majerle said, "We have all the tools." A new arena packed with enthusiastic fans. As Rick Pitino said after the game at GCU, "Whether we go to Duke, Kentucky... nothing was as tough as that environment tonight. They orchestrated on a timeout with music and the band so you can't hear one word in the timeout. They have more students that come to one of our games. So I'm extremely grateful we won. And I'm really impressed with what you have here." He added, "This in college basketball in my 40-plus years was the toughest crowd I ever faced."

So everything is set-up to win, to be the next Gonzaga. Weak excuses like "We all thought GCU would finish 4th" should not be acceptable. You guys are recruiting three and four star players. You are competing with Pac-12 schools.

In 2016-2017, GCU beats San Diego State at home. Nice win. But they also have losses that season to a 6-24 SIU-Edwardsville team (76-64) and a 20 point road loss at UCR, a team that went 8-21. How do you lose those games? You have to win those games to reach the goal of being a top mid-major. GCU set the goal as being the next Gonzaga, the next Butler. So when does Majerle take the team to the next level?
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2019 01:13 AM by SoCalBobcat78.)
04-17-2019 02:58 PM
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gleadley Offline
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Post: #34
RE: UVU hires Laker asst. Mark Madsen
If GCU has Gonzaga-size goals, why try to do it on a WAC-size budget? Wouldn't a better comparison for a team with Butler-type ambitions actually be Butler, who has a basketball budget of... any guesses? Oh, yeah. $5.5M.
04-17-2019 04:37 PM
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Post: #35
RE: UVU hires Laker asst. Mark Madsen
I'm too tired but look at Majerles record vs. winning teams and road games. He padded his wins with crap competition during the OCC schedule for five years and of course at home in front of all the zombies. This was the first year he scheduled better competition across the board and he was barely over .500 during the OCC schedule. He has ended in 3rd place in the WAC 4 times and has not won in all the pay in tournaments GCU has played in, including several 1st round games at home. I know here and there he scheduled good teams like Louisville (which we never hear the end of), and other teams in the MWC, but generally speaking, crap. For what Majerle is getting paid and with GCUs ridiculous basketball budget Majerle hasn't performed that well. A 32 point loss in the WAC championship is not progress.
04-17-2019 10:20 PM
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