(04-10-2019 08:43 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Just saw it
https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Dail...ig-12.aspx

covers
2019,2021,2023 conference championship football games
from all schools but Texas and Oklahoma- games that aren't on linear TV will be on ESPN+- to include spring game, and at least 1 football game.

Big 12 is screwed, they agreed to put stuff on ESPN+

So, in other words, ESPN is buying the Big 12 Tier 3 rights from everyone but OU and UT. This stuff had been Fox RSN (and/or maybe the Fox sports app) content and putting it on ESPN+.

I don't think that's a huge deal.

For 10 million dollars over 5 yrs
LHN could have been quesa B12N
And made a lot more money

(04-10-2019 08:54 AM)zoocrew Wrote:  How does Oklahoma and Texas continuously get away with screwing the rest of the Big 12? Get the hell out of that conference it’s the least level playing field I’ve ever seen.

This contract makes it clear every non UT/OU school is basically a AAC school and I now fully expect ESPN has the ability to influence these 2 leagues futures.

2024/25 is coming.

I may be incorrect but it seems that Texas & Oklahoma T1 & T2 media rights are already owned by the B12 under the GOR so they are "shared " and are already under contract with ESPN & Fox. Texas & Oklahoma both have T3 rights that are NOT shared (as do each of the other B12 teams). As Texas' T3 are tied to the LHN and Oklahoma's T3 to Fox from pre-existing contracts I'm not sure how this arrangement could have been done otherwise. ESPN already held T3 rights to KU so it appears that the other B12 schools simply were able and did sell their T3 to ESPN (probably the reason why teams start providing content in different years) and that the conference added the title games which Fox had opted out of. And, the article notes, while some Texas & Oklahoma content will appear on ABC as Big12 content under T1 & T2 of the B12 conference contract , some may appear on ESPN+ as T3 when they play other B12 teams. So, if your assessment is that just because any team that appears on ESPN+ it is an AAC team, then it appears you're going to have to widen your definition to include Texas & Oklahoma.

Additionally, since there wouldn't/won't be a B12 network (yes, Texas doesn't always play nice) before at least 2031 (if ever), and since all the other P5s have a network [though some (read Pac12) certainly have distribution problems] this gives some B12 teams ready-made national exposure which they otherwise might not have (and from ESPN's perspective, gives fans of those teams a "reason" to subscribe to ESPN+).

(04-10-2019 09:20 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  When ESPN+ was launched, they claimed that it would consist of almost entirely *new* content, with very little shifting of content from existing formats that cable TV subscribers already get.

No, they said they wouldn't shift any of their live sports content in current deals from ESPN channels to ESPN+. They did not say that a particular sport or league or college conference would never have games on Plus.

(04-10-2019 08:59 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  People that hate ESPN+ must have had a really hard time when the Milk man stopped deliveries.

yeah ... really ... uh is that a mirror ...

(04-10-2019 11:01 AM)ICThawk Wrote:  

(04-10-2019 08:54 AM)zoocrew Wrote:  How does Oklahoma and Texas continuously get away with screwing the rest of the Big 12? Get the hell out of that conference it’s the least level playing field I’ve ever seen.

This contract makes it clear every non UT/OU school is basically a AAC school and I now fully expect ESPN has the ability to influence these 2 leagues futures.

2024/25 is coming.

I may be incorrect but it seems that Texas & Oklahoma T1 & T2 media rights are already owned by the B12 under the GOR so they are "shared " and are already under contract with ESPN & Fox. Texas & Oklahoma both have T3 rights that are NOT shared (as do each of the other B12 teams). As Texas' T3 are tied to the LHN and Oklahoma's T3 to Fox from pre-existing contracts I'm not sure how this arrangement could have been done otherwise. ESPN already held T3 rights to KU so it appears that the other B12 schools simply were able and did sell their T3 to ESPN (probably the reason why teams start providing content in different years) and that the conference added the title games which Fox had opted out of. And, the article notes, while some Texas & Oklahoma content will appear on ABC as Big12 content under T1 & T2 of the B12 conference contract , some may appear on ESPN+ as T3 when they play other B12 teams. So, if your assessment is that just because any team that appears on ESPN+ it is an AAC team, then it appears you're going to have to widen your definition to include Texas & Oklahoma.

Additionally, since there wouldn't/won't be a B12 network (yes, Texas doesn't always play nice) before at least 2031 (if ever), and since all the other P5s have a network [though some (read Pac12) certainly have distribution problems] this gives some B12 teams ready-made national exposure which they otherwise might not have (and from ESPN's perspective, gives fans of those teams a "reason" to subscribe to ESPN+).

You are on the right track. It's the rest of the posters who don't play chess.

This isn't bad news for the Big 12. It's a pivotal move by ESPN in order to create a reality in which the present Big 12 has many more options at their disposal. If my thoughts on this are correct then there is only 1 tell left out there that would reveal it. If ESPN goes after Oklahoma's T3 (currently held by FOX), which I believe they will, then through the end of the existing Big 12 contract ESPN will have 1/2 of all of the Big 12's T1 and T2 rights, all of their CCG rights, and all of their T3 rights (if they land OU).

What this does is to put ESPN in a much stronger position for any of the following options which are all favorable to the Big 12:

1. Purchase the remaining T1 and T2 rights in 2025 and convert the LHN into a Big 12N by continuing to pay Texas its advantage in revenue through 2031 and turning the LHN into a marketable product to enhance its own package with the SECN and ACCN.

2. The kind of stability the Big 12 would project through such a move (should OU and UT remain committed) might make it a more attractive option for some current PAC 12 schools which are not old core PAC 8.

3. If Texas and/or Oklahoma did indeed defect and OU's T3 rights were in the hands of ESPN instead of FOX it would make it far easier to rebuild the Big 12 into an enhanced version of the AAC, keep it P5, and still utilize the old LHN which Texas would not need in any other P5 conference they decided to join. 5 years of the LHN's value would easily cover exit fees and the remainder would be easy for ESPN to absorb if needed.

So regardless of what UT and OU do, this move likely insures that the remaining 6-8 schools would remain a P5 and since ESPN holds rights to the AAC it would be easy to move some of their best into the Big 12 and have a more valuable overall product.

Now for this view of the future to have legs then after today's contract announcment all that need be done is for ESPN to rest OU's T3 rights renewal from FOX.

So I see this as anything but doom and gloom for the 8 schools of the Big 12 not named Texas and Oklahoma. And such a move doesn't restrict Texas and Oklahoma's ability to move should they desire to, as it actually will make it easier.

P.S.: The ACC and SEC have many baseball, softball, and some basketball games on ESPN+. The contract seemed only to be one more example of how ESPN might be lining them up for conversion to a conference network. It is why OU is now the only key piece missing.

(04-10-2019 08:54 AM)zoocrew Wrote:  How does Oklahoma and Texas continuously get away with screwing the rest of the Big 12? Get the hell out of that conference it’s the least level playing field I’ve ever seen.

This contract makes it clear every non UT/OU school is basically a AAC school and I now fully expect ESPN has the ability to influence these 2 leagues futures.

2024/25 is coming.

How is it "screwing them" by keeping their Tier 3 separate just as every school in the country did 10 years ago? Is Ohio St. screwing the Big 10 by not sharing their licensing revenue? Is Louisville screwing the ACC by not sharing their YUM center revenue? Did Texas and OU ask for guaranteed revenues from the Big 12 as Texas A&M did? Or as USC and UCLA insisted on with the Pac 12? Or as USC and UCLA are doing by refuses to pool licensing revenue as Commissioner Scott is trying to get schools to do?

(04-10-2019 08:56 AM)zoocrew Wrote:  

(04-10-2019 08:48 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-10-2019 08:43 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Just saw it
https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Dail...ig-12.aspx

covers
2019,2021,2023 conference championship football games
from all schools but Texas and Oklahoma- games that aren't on linear TV will be on ESPN+- to include spring game, and at least 1 football game.

Big 12 is screwed, they agreed to put stuff on ESPN+

ESPN+ becomes the de facto Big 12 network.

"...Eight of the 10 schools will provide more than 50 exclusive events per year, including at least one football game, any spring football game and any basketball game that is not on an ESPN linear network. Texas, which has Longhorn Network, and Oklahoma, which has its own local rights deal, will not provide content to ESPN+.

Starting in '19, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State and Oklahoma State will provide games for ESPN+. The following year, Iowa State, TCU, West Virginia and Texas Tech will participate...."

You’re not a power league if your “defacto network” is ESPN+ LMAO you’re the AAC.

Goodnight Big 12

Well the Big 12 seems to be making more on it than the Pac 12 is on theirs. And the ACC's used to be Raycom which has gone out of business. No revenue yet from ESPN.

I think conference networks are going away. You will see more ESPN+ type deals.

Maybe the SECN and BTN linger a little longer. But not indefinitely.

LOL.

Certain posters after AAC signs with ESPN plus: "This is the worst deal ever"

Same posters after B12 signs with ESPN plus: "ESPN plus isn't that bad, in fact it's a pretty good deal"

LOL, the hypocrisy.

(04-10-2019 12:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-10-2019 11:01 AM)ICThawk Wrote:  

(04-10-2019 08:54 AM)zoocrew Wrote:  How does Oklahoma and Texas continuously get away with screwing the rest of the Big 12? Get the hell out of that conference it’s the least level playing field I’ve ever seen.

This contract makes it clear every non UT/OU school is basically a AAC school and I now fully expect ESPN has the ability to influence these 2 leagues futures.

2024/25 is coming.

I may be incorrect but it seems that Texas & Oklahoma T1 & T2 media rights are already owned by the B12 under the GOR so they are "shared " and are already under contract with ESPN & Fox. Texas & Oklahoma both have T3 rights that are NOT shared (as do each of the other B12 teams). As Texas' T3 are tied to the LHN and Oklahoma's T3 to Fox from pre-existing contracts I'm not sure how this arrangement could have been done otherwise. ESPN already held T3 rights to KU so it appears that the other B12 schools simply were able and did sell their T3 to ESPN (probably the reason why teams start providing content in different years) and that the conference added the title games which Fox had opted out of. And, the article notes, while some Texas & Oklahoma content will appear on ABC as Big12 content under T1 & T2 of the B12 conference contract , some may appear on ESPN+ as T3 when they play other B12 teams. So, if your assessment is that just because any team that appears on ESPN+ it is an AAC team, then it appears you're going to have to widen your definition to include Texas & Oklahoma.

Additionally, since there wouldn't/won't be a B12 network (yes, Texas doesn't always play nice) before at least 2031 (if ever), and since all the other P5s have a network [though some (read Pac12) certainly have distribution problems] this gives some B12 teams ready-made national exposure which they otherwise might not have (and from ESPN's perspective, gives fans of those teams a "reason" to subscribe to ESPN+).

You are on the right track. It's the rest of the posters who don't play chess.

This isn't bad news for the Big 12. It's a pivotal move by ESPN in order to create a reality in which the present Big 12 has many more options at their disposal. If my thoughts on this are correct then there is only 1 tell left out there that would reveal it. If ESPN goes after Oklahoma's T3 (currently held by FOX), which I believe they will, then through the end of the existing Big 12 contract ESPN will have 1/2 of all of the Big 12's T1 and T2 rights, all of their CCG rights, and all of their T3 rights (if they land OU).

What this does is to put ESPN in a much stronger position for any of the following options which are all favorable to the Big 12:

1. Purchase the remaining T1 and T2 rights in 2025 and convert the LHN into a Big 12N by continuing to pay Texas its advantage in revenue through 2031 and turning the LHN into a marketable product to enhance its own package with the SECN and ACCN.

2. The kind of stability the Big 12 would project through such a move (should OU and UT remain committed) might make it a more attractive option for some current PAC 12 schools which are not old core PAC 8.

3. If Texas and/or Oklahoma did indeed defect and OU's T3 rights were in the hands of ESPN instead of FOX it would make it far easier to rebuild the Big 12 into an enhanced version of the AAC, keep it P5, and still utilize the old LHN which Texas would not need in any other P5 conference they decided to join. 5 years of the LHN's value would easily cover exit fees and the remainder would be easy for ESPN to absorb if needed.

So regardless of what UT and OU do, this move likely insures that the remaining 6-8 schools would remain a P5 and since ESPN holds rights to the AAC it would be easy to move some of their best into the Big 12 and have a more valuable overall product.

Now for this view of the future to have legs then after today's contract announcment all that need be done is for ESPN to rest OU's T3 rights renewal from FOX.

So I see this as anything but doom and gloom for the 8 schools of the Big 12 not named Texas and Oklahoma. And such a move doesn't restrict Texas and Oklahoma's ability to move should they desire to, as it actually will make it easier.

P.S.: The ACC and SEC have many baseball, softball, and some basketball games on ESPN+. The contract seemed only to be one more example of how ESPN might be lining them up for conversion to a conference network. It is why OU is now the only key piece missing.

That would be a pretty slick move. I wonder if they would have to give UT sports an oversized representation or some sort of major concession on the network in order to win their approval of such a deal.

the article is not well written and does not give the numbers clearly, except the part where they say the conference will average $22 million for the remainder of the deal

the prior deal (really not prior just the deal that has been added to) averaged $20 million per year so there is a per year bump in average of $2 million per team over 6 years or $12 million total per team for the remainder of the contract

it does not mention if the deal renegotiated the prior CCGs that ESPN already owned or if those deals are still in place and paying like they already would have

those games were paying about $20 million a year X 3 years ESPN owned or about $6 million per team

so if those games are included in this new deal then the end result is the Big 12 gets all of their CCGs on ESPN or ABC now for another $6 million per member AND 8 of the 10 members tossed in some content for ESPN+ basically free

if the deal does not include those three CCGs ESPN already owned and the Big 12 still gets paid for them under a past contract then the deal is the Big 12 getting their 3 additional CCGs on ESPN or ABC for about the same money and all the members get about $1 million a year for some third tier content going to ESPN+ including two members that do not have to place any content on ESPN+

that would basically mean that 8 of the 10 Big 12 members would be getting about $1 million a year for their 3rd tier which is a little less than some were getting and in the case of Kansas specifically one has to wonder what happens with the deal they had with Metro, Time Warner and Comcast

in the case of several other Big 12 members their original 3rd tier deals were only for 3 or 4 years anyway so some of those deals are ending as it is and it looks like the Fox regionals (where most were) are not in a position to do anything

so if those members with deals ending are getting $1 million a year for third tier to go over to ESPN+ well that is what they get......but if the new deal includes the payments for the three CCGs ESPN already had then it is a net break even with members getting no additional money for some content shifting to ESPN+ only getting money for the additional CCGs at about the same rate as people expected them to get before Fox passed and could be looked at as a net loss on third tier payments

also ESPN does not have to shift any content over to ESPN+ although they probably will because they are ignorant of how markets work outside of a market where you can try and cram things on people with leverage against cable MSOs.....streaming does not afford you that leverage

http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArticle.d...=211799146

All the Big 12 bigwigs are talking up this B12 deal like it's the greatest thing ever, and is literally their own conf. network on ESPN+.

LOL. Same exact thing Aresco was saying a few days ago, which was belittled by some here.

Oh, the hypocrisy.

(04-10-2019 08:58 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I'd look at the deal- 40 million over 6 years- it'd be basically about 10 million for the 3 title games and then 10 million for the ESPN+ stuff.

This is how I read it.

The Big 12 wanted $20M per title game, but Fox said no and withdrew in January. Quite a paycut. I believe Fox paid $25M for the 2017 game.

Meanwhile, Texas makes $15M a year from Tier 3, and the 8 dwarfs share $10M over 6 years for their Tier 3, or a little over $200K per year.

(04-10-2019 12:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-10-2019 11:01 AM)ICThawk Wrote:  

(04-10-2019 08:54 AM)zoocrew Wrote:  How does Oklahoma and Texas continuously get away with screwing the rest of the Big 12? Get the hell out of that conference it’s the least level playing field I’ve ever seen.

This contract makes it clear every non UT/OU school is basically a AAC school and I now fully expect ESPN has the ability to influence these 2 leagues futures.

2024/25 is coming.

I may be incorrect but it seems that Texas & Oklahoma T1 & T2 media rights are already owned by the B12 under the GOR so they are "shared " and are already under contract with ESPN & Fox. Texas & Oklahoma both have T3 rights that are NOT shared (as do each of the other B12 teams). As Texas' T3 are tied to the LHN and Oklahoma's T3 to Fox from pre-existing contracts I'm not sure how this arrangement could have been done otherwise. ESPN already held T3 rights to KU so it appears that the other B12 schools simply were able and did sell their T3 to ESPN (probably the reason why teams start providing content in different years) and that the conference added the title games which Fox had opted out of. And, the article notes, while some Texas & Oklahoma content will appear on ABC as Big12 content under T1 & T2 of the B12 conference contract , some may appear on ESPN+ as T3 when they play other B12 teams. So, if your assessment is that just because any team that appears on ESPN+ it is an AAC team, then it appears you're going to have to widen your definition to include Texas & Oklahoma.

Additionally, since there wouldn't/won't be a B12 network (yes, Texas doesn't always play nice) before at least 2031 (if ever), and since all the other P5s have a network [though some (read Pac12) certainly have distribution problems] this gives some B12 teams ready-made national exposure which they otherwise might not have (and from ESPN's perspective, gives fans of those teams a "reason" to subscribe to ESPN+).

You are on the right track. It's the rest of the posters who don't play chess.

This isn't bad news for the Big 12. It's a pivotal move by ESPN in order to create a reality in which the present Big 12 has many more options at their disposal. If my thoughts on this are correct then there is only 1 tell left out there that would reveal it. If ESPN goes after Oklahoma's T3 (currently held by FOX), which I believe they will, then through the end of the existing Big 12 contract ESPN will have 1/2 of all of the Big 12's T1 and T2 rights, all of their CCG rights, and all of their T3 rights (if they land OU).

What this does is to put ESPN in a much stronger position for any of the following options which are all favorable to the Big 12:

1. Purchase the remaining T1 and T2 rights in 2025 and convert the LHN into a Big 12N by continuing to pay Texas its advantage in revenue through 2031 and turning the LHN into a marketable product to enhance its own package with the SECN and ACCN.

2. The kind of stability the Big 12 would project through such a move (should OU and UT remain committed) might make it a more attractive option for some current PAC 12 schools which are not old core PAC 8.

3. If Texas and/or Oklahoma did indeed defect and OU's T3 rights were in the hands of ESPN instead of FOX it would make it far easier to rebuild the Big 12 into an enhanced version of the AAC, keep it P5, and still utilize the old LHN which Texas would not need in any other P5 conference they decided to join. 5 years of the LHN's value would easily cover exit fees and the remainder would be easy for ESPN to absorb if needed.

So regardless of what UT and OU do, this move likely insures that the remaining 6-8 schools would remain a P5 and since ESPN holds rights to the AAC it would be easy to move some of their best into the Big 12 and have a more valuable overall product.

Now for this view of the future to have legs then after today's contract announcment all that need be done is for ESPN to rest OU's T3 rights renewal from FOX.

So I see this as anything but doom and gloom for the 8 schools of the Big 12 not named Texas and Oklahoma. And such a move doesn't restrict Texas and Oklahoma's ability to move should they desire to, as it actually will make it easier.

P.S.: The ACC and SEC have many baseball, softball, and some basketball games on ESPN+. The contract seemed only to be one more example of how ESPN might be lining them up for conversion to a conference network. It is why OU is now the only key piece missing.

This seems likely to me. Even if OU/UT/KU and OSU or whoever else people think leaves, I think the Big 12 is still considered a power conference if you add teams like Cincy, Temple, UConn, UCF, USF, Memphis, Houston to it. That’s still a better football and especially basketball conference than the PAC and if ESPN has a huge investment in it which I tend to think they will.....well then they’re gonna tout their product.

Big 12 Fans a few weeks ago: “Lol! Poor AAC! Their games are on ESPN+! So much for “Power 6”!

Big 12 fans today: “This is a bold and amazing move! ESPN+ is the wave of the future! So much better than grandpa watching his B1G 10 network or SECN!”

(04-10-2019 01:47 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Big 12 Fans a few weeks ago: “Lol! Poor AAC! Their games are on ESPN+! So much for “Power 6”!

Big 12 fans today: “This is a bold and amazing move! ESPN+ is the wave of the future! So much better than grandpa watching his B1G 10 network or SECN!”

This is literally the funniest thing about this whole deal. The complete hypocrisy. If you read the B12 release, every single AD is talking up this deal like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. "Our own network on ESPN+".

What changed in the few weeks since the AAC signed their deal?

(04-10-2019 01:54 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(04-10-2019 01:47 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Big 12 Fans a few weeks ago: “Lol! Poor AAC! Their games are on ESPN+! So much for “Power 6”!

Big 12 fans today: “This is a bold and amazing move! ESPN+ is the wave of the future! So much better than grandpa watching his B1G 10 network or SECN!”

This is literally the funniest thing about this whole deal. The complete hypocrisy. If you read the B12 release, every single AD is talking up this deal like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. "Our own network on ESPN+".

What changed in the few weeks since the AAC signed their deal?

ESPN+ sucks mainly because ESPN sucks at streaming, but also because the cost Vs content delivered is way out of line

it is ESPN/Disney thinking they can slow roll people into moving over to streaming and still pay way too much for the sum total of mostly crap that ESPN and Disney produce

If 2025 comes around and this Big 12 remnant-MWC(TCU)-Big East(West Virginia,UConn,Temple)-Conference USA(UC,UH,Memphis, USF,UCF) mashup happens I want it directly injected into my bloodstream.

Please ESPN make it happen.