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Duling is transferring
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cschierh Offline
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Post: #1
Duling is transferring
From Stater sporrs editor Henry Palattella on Twitter:

BJ Duling has announced via Instagram that he will be transferring from the Kent State’s men’s basketball team. Duling averaged 2.9 points in 27 games last year as a sophomore. Story to come on @kentwired.

Link to Henry's tweet, which includes Duling's post.
https://twitter.com/HellaPalattella

--

It's sad things never worked out with Duling.
04-02-2019 05:05 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Duling is transferring
Amazing that such a highly regarded recruit was able to contribute so little. It will be interesting to see where he lands, and what he does there..
04-02-2019 05:19 PM
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thanksjim Online
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RE: Duling is transferring
Allen Moff of RC is saying Kain Harris is leaving as well.
04-02-2019 09:37 PM
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Albert Flasher Offline
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RE: Duling is transferring
Kain Harris has also left the program.
04-02-2019 09:46 PM
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GFlash68 Offline
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RE: Duling is transferring
I am upset at this as I thought that BJ was not given the chance to develop. I am sure that he feels the same. This kid had too much ability to let get away.
04-02-2019 09:53 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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RE: Duling is transferring
That's a shame but from his point of view I definitely get it. Assuming he doesn't get a waiver (the NCAA gives them out like crazy now) he could really benefit from a redshirt season. Looks like Givens and Harris are out too. Wish them all the best. Hate to lose Duling but if these are the only transfers this season I'll be pretty happy with what we have coming back.

I believe we were one over the scholarship limit when Felder committed so Harris and Duling means we've got one to give out. I'm guessing they'll be looking for a JUCO PF/C as currently next year's roster will have two proven posts in Pippen and Whittington and two unproven freshmen in Bennett and Bainbridge. Especially after how this season went I would be surprised to see us content with not adding another post.
04-02-2019 10:35 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Duling is transferring
I've seen no statistics, but I wouldn't be surprised if roster turnover throughout D I is at a record high between turning professional early, "normal" transfers, JUCO. grad school transfers and "graduation". Odd, you don't hear much any more about players becoming academically ineligible. I've been following the NCAA tournament since the mid-1950's when hardly any games were televised. Watching some games this past weekend I was thinking about how different the game has become with the 30-second shot clock, the 3-point shot and not many teams playing like a well-oiled machine you used to see ages ago with players playing together 3 or 4 years.
04-03-2019 08:47 AM
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FlashPan Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Duling is transferring
A fashion degree from Kent State is worth quite a bit. I'm surprised he's leaving everything that the fashion school has to offer. 01-lauramac2
04-03-2019 01:48 PM
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cleveland Offline
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RE: Duling is transferring
(04-03-2019 01:48 PM)FlashPan Wrote:  A fashion degree from Kent State is worth quite a bit. I'm surprised he's leaving everything that the fashion school has to offer. 01-lauramac2

Depending how he has done so far ... could easily transfer back after two years somewhere else and finish it up. Even do summer school at Kent to keep building credits ... so much of this stuff is online these days it's a wonder there are any bodies walking around campus at all. Any Campus.

Although, one would think a fashion degree would have to be pretty intensive w/regard to student-teacher interaction.

Either way, best to him. Just never quite seemed like a good fit at Kent.
04-03-2019 03:42 PM
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Albert Flasher Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Duling is transferring
Duling leaving is a bit hard to take. Appeared to be a team player with a positive attitude. IMHO, there always appeared to be tension between Duling & the head coach with Duling being overly cautious. And it was pretty obvious the HC was not happy with his play. And this cycle continued to spin faster.

I would not be surprised at all if Duling does much better at another school where he has better chemistry with his HC.

All the best to him.
04-03-2019 07:26 PM
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JimJoyce Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Duling is transferring
Just spit-balling this but I wonder if he even likes basketball. I know that sounds crazy but a lot of times guys play something only because they’re good at it.
04-03-2019 07:42 PM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Duling is transferring
(04-03-2019 07:42 PM)JimJoyce Wrote:  Just spit-balling this but I wonder if he even likes basketball. I know that sounds crazy but a lot of times guys play something only because they’re good at it.

There may be something to this ... as a comparison, for all his warts few would question if Jaylin Walker 'loved' playing basketball. Duling may like the game, but I also wonder if he loves it in the same way Walker, or Williams or Avery for example do.

Maybe he'll find that love of the game somewhere else.
04-03-2019 08:02 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Duling is transferring
"Basketball has been the love of my life since the moment one was put into my hands...." BJ Duling

That quotation is from the Twitter post mentioned in the initial post on this thread, So, I imagine he likes basketball, and just wants to go somewhere where he will average considerably more minutes. Best of luck to him.
04-04-2019 07:10 AM
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ksu315 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Duling is transferring
Couple factors here:

1) Duling is a tweener position wise. athletic freak at the high school level who could completely take over a game. But at this level he wasn't big enough to play the 4 or 5 and didn't have the guards skills or shot to play the 3.

2) Rob is trying to win now and relies heavily on juniors and seniors. So i'd guess if your defense is suspect, take poor shots and body language runs hot and cold that's probably not a good recipe for a budding relationship with the HC.
04-04-2019 08:12 AM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Duling is transferring
Agree KSU315. It's easier for HS bigs that aren't tall enough for D I to transition to guard than it was long ago, but it's still a transition that not everyone can make.
04-04-2019 12:31 PM
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fallsdog Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Duling is transferring
Whittington, Roberts and Pippen. Other than those three I believe that every returner on the current roster is replaceable. This is nothing against the other returning players and it would take one heck of recruiting job to fill a roster by the time basketball gets underway. This is more a comment on how I didn't see (nearly enough) consistency or a tremendous amount of growth potential from anyone who suited up last season with the exception of Whittington and Roberts. As for Pippen, somehow we convinced ourselves that he is really good.
04-04-2019 01:49 PM
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cleveland Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Duling is transferring
(04-04-2019 01:49 PM)fallsdog Wrote:  Whittington, Roberts and Pippen. Other than those three I believe that every returner on the current roster is replaceable. This is nothing against the other returning players and it would take one heck of recruiting job to fill a roster by the time basketball gets underway. This is more a comment on how I didn't see (nearly enough) consistency or a tremendous amount of growth potential from anyone who suited up last season with the exception of Whittington and Roberts. As for Pippen, somehow we convinced ourselves that he is really good.


My top three would be Whittington, Williams and Roberts in that order .. with both a question mark and an exclamation point for the unproven (consistency) Pippen, hoping he is the more of an exclamation than a question as a junior next season.

The real question is Peterson ... at this point he is what he is, an very good role player on an overall talented team, but a black hole offensively, otherwise.

To think he has the makeup/ability to even average 10 points a game is out the window ... but as an opportunistic rebounder, defender and passer, who can make a shot when you least expect it ... I'll take him. The perfect proverbial 'glue guy.'

But he's got to be surrounded by much better players at every other spot. Otherwise, he hurts Kent instead of helping.
04-04-2019 03:34 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Duling is transferring
Agree, fallsdog. Roberts and Whittington look to me like the two most important returning players. As for Pippen, he is an example of the old saying "Absence makes the heart grow fonder." He's good, that's for sure. But, he hasn't yet proven he's REALLY good.
04-04-2019 04:09 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Duling is transferring
I'm going to go on a little tangent here, but I'll bring it back to Duling, I promise...

I feel the classic 3/4 tweener is the most misunderstood player in basketball and maybe the most interesting. Very few seem to truly understand what attributes are needed to be a successful 3/4 tweener. Most think the key is the guy has to be fast enough off the dribble to beat bigs and be a good outside shooter. This is really not the truth though. Hands down the most important attributes for a successful 3/4 tweener are 1) physical strength to hold his own defensively against bigger opponents and 2) he has to be a good to great defender.

Notice I'm entirely talking about defense where normally people focus on offense. It's actually pretty simple when you think about it. A tweener is going to have to make some adjustments when moving up a level, so if their physical attributes and skillset translate to defense better then they're more likely to be able to stay on the court and eventually find their niche defensively. On offense you can dictate where a player gets the ball and what you want him to do with it. On defense the other team is trying to exploit your weak spots. So if you're a defensive liability you're going to have a harder time staying on the court.

It's actually remarkable how poorly understood this fact is from people at high levels. To illustrate this, let's look at some of the more notable 3/4 tweeners in recent memory in the NBA that were 6'8" or under. The six that come to mind are Jae Crowder (6'6"), Draymond Green (6'7"), Derrick Williams (6'8"), Paul Millsap (6'8"), Anthony Bennett (6'8"), and Jabari Parker (6'8"). When looking at how good a player's career has been I like to look at total Win Shares because it shows playing well and sticking in the league. Then for comparing players who have different durations comparing Win Shares per 48 minutes is a good metric. So here's some career numbers on these guys...

Millsap: 88.1 WS; 0.153 WS/48; 0.073 DWS/48; 33.4 3PT%; 942 games.
Green: 42.9 WS; 0.138 WS/48; 0.088 DWS/48; 32.2 3PT%; 529 games.
Crowder: 28.5 WS; 0.105 WS/48; 0.055 DWS/48; 33.9 3PT%; 539 games.
Williams: 14.1 WS; 0.076 WS/48; 0.037 DWS/48; 30.0 3PT%; 428 games.
Parker: 11.7 WS; 0.076 WS/48; 0.037 DWS/48; 33.7 3PT%; 247 games.
Bennett: 0.5 WS; 0.013 WS/48; 0.035 DWS/48; 26.1 3PT%; 151 games.

Millsap and Green are unquestionably the best players NBA from this group. As of right now it's safe to say Crowder has had the 3rd best career from this group. Bennett was out of the NBA real fast and while Williams' career was a long one on the Anthony Bennett scale, he didn't play very long either. Parker's been injury proned, but it's safe to say he has not come close to living up to his draft slot thus far.

Well, now let's look at where these guys were picked. Millsap was the 47th pick in his draft. Green was the 35th in his draft. Crowder was 34th. Williams and Parker were both 2nd and Bennett was 1st. So at the time they were being drafted you would've been called crazy if you said Bennett and Williams weren't going to stick in the league but Millsap and Green would be perennial all-stars with some HOF potential. But the trend is clear, the guys who defend are the guys who succeed. The guys who struggle defensively are the guys who struggle to stay in the league. According to DW/48, Millsap is roughly twice as good defensively as Williams, Parker, and Bennett. Green is even better and while Crowder isn't quite the defender that Millsap and Green are he's certainly not a liability.

You don't have to look far to see a great example of NBA teams not understanding what makes a good 3/4 tweener. One year before the Cavs made Anthony Bennett the worst first overall pick in NBA history they traded the 33rd and 34th picks to move up and take Tyler Zeller. That just so happened to be the same year that Crowder went 34th and Green went 35th. Just think how different the last few years would've been for the Cavs if they understood how to evaluate 3/4 tweeners.

So anyways, let's get back to Duling...

To start, I'm not actually convinced he's a 3/4 tweener in the MAC. 6'7" 235 is not really undersized to play the 4 in the MAC. How many MAC teams this year often ran lineups with 2 players significantly bigger than that? But for arguments sake, let's say he is the classic 3/4 tweener as some of you feel he is. Of our rotation players Duling had the highest DWS/40 (it's per 40 in college per 48 in the NBA) on the team at 0.0625. That's what frustrates me about his lack of minutes. We were a bad defensive team. He was one of our best defenders and he has the proper attributes that generally lead to successful 3/4 tweeners, but he didn't get the minutes. Heck, Peterson's defense kept him in the rotation for 3 years and he's probably not as good of a defender as Duling. Now I do understand that Duling fouled a lot. So planning to play him 25+ minutes a night might not have been a good idea. But he made a difference defensively when he was in there and we didn't have a 3rd big. So I really will never understand why he didn't get minutes. Now I do really like Sendy, so while I don't agree with Duling's usage I do usually agree with him and I do still think he's a very good coach. Just my thoughts.
04-04-2019 07:08 PM
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burden Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Duling is transferring
(04-04-2019 07:08 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  I'm going to go on a little tangent here, but I'll bring it back to Duling, I promise...

I feel the classic 3/4 tweener is the most misunderstood player in basketball and maybe the most interesting. Very few seem to truly understand what attributes are needed to be a successful 3/4 tweener. Most think the key is the guy has to be fast enough off the dribble to beat bigs and be a good outside shooter. This is really not the truth though. Hands down the most important attributes for a successful 3/4 tweener are 1) physical strength to hold his own defensively against bigger opponents and 2) he has to be a good to great defender.

Notice I'm entirely talking about defense where normally people focus on offense. It's actually pretty simple when you think about it. A tweener is going to have to make some adjustments when moving up a level, so if their physical attributes and skillset translate to defense better then they're more likely to be able to stay on the court and eventually find their niche defensively. On offense you can dictate where a player gets the ball and what you want him to do with it. On defense the other team is trying to exploit your weak spots. So if you're a defensive liability you're going to have a harder time staying on the court.

It's actually remarkable how poorly understood this fact is from people at high levels. To illustrate this, let's look at some of the more notable 3/4 tweeners in recent memory in the NBA that were 6'8" or under. The six that come to mind are Jae Crowder (6'6"), Draymond Green (6'7"), Derrick Williams (6'8"), Paul Millsap (6'8"), Anthony Bennett (6'8"), and Jabari Parker (6'8"). When looking at how good a player's career has been I like to look at total Win Shares because it shows playing well and sticking in the league. Then for comparing players who have different durations comparing Win Shares per 48 minutes is a good metric. So here's some career numbers on these guys...

Millsap: 88.1 WS; 0.153 WS/48; 0.073 DWS/48; 33.4 3PT%; 942 games.
Green: 42.9 WS; 0.138 WS/48; 0.088 DWS/48; 32.2 3PT%; 529 games.
Crowder: 28.5 WS; 0.105 WS/48; 0.055 DWS/48; 33.9 3PT%; 539 games.
Williams: 14.1 WS; 0.076 WS/48; 0.037 DWS/48; 30.0 3PT%; 428 games.
Parker: 11.7 WS; 0.076 WS/48; 0.037 DWS/48; 33.7 3PT%; 247 games.
Bennett: 0.5 WS; 0.013 WS/48; 0.035 DWS/48; 26.1 3PT%; 151 games.

Millsap and Green are unquestionably the best players NBA from this group. As of right now it's safe to say Crowder has had the 3rd best career from this group. Bennett was out of the NBA real fast and while Williams' career was a long one on the Anthony Bennett scale, he didn't play very long either. Parker's been injury proned, but it's safe to say he has not come close to living up to his draft slot thus far.

Well, now let's look at where these guys were picked. Millsap was the 47th pick in his draft. Green was the 35th in his draft. Crowder was 34th. Williams and Parker were both 2nd and Bennett was 1st. So at the time they were being drafted you would've been called crazy if you said Bennett and Williams weren't going to stick in the league but Millsap and Green would be perennial all-stars with some HOF potential. But the trend is clear, the guys who defend are the guys who succeed. The guys who struggle defensively are the guys who struggle to stay in the league. According to DW/48, Millsap is roughly twice as good defensively as Williams, Parker, and Bennett. Green is even better and while Crowder isn't quite the defender that Millsap and Green are he's certainly not a liability.

You don't have to look far to see a great example of NBA teams not understanding what makes a good 3/4 tweener. One year before the Cavs made Anthony Bennett the worst first overall pick in NBA history they traded the 33rd and 34th picks to move up and take Tyler Zeller. That just so happened to be the same year that Crowder went 34th and Green went 35th. Just think how different the last few years would've been for the Cavs if they understood how to evaluate 3/4 tweeners.

So anyways, let's get back to Duling...

To start, I'm not actually convinced he's a 3/4 tweener in the MAC. 6'7" 235 is not really undersized to play the 4 in the MAC. How many MAC teams this year often ran lineups with 2 players significantly bigger than that? But for arguments sake, let's say he is the classic 3/4 tweener as some of you feel he is. Of our rotation players Duling had the highest DWS/40 (it's per 40 in college per 48 in the NBA) on the team at 0.0625. That's what frustrates me about his lack of minutes. We were a bad defensive team. He was one of our best defenders and he has the proper attributes that generally lead to successful 3/4 tweeners, but he didn't get the minutes. Heck, Peterson's defense kept him in the rotation for 3 years and he's probably not as good of a defender as Duling. Now I do understand that Duling fouled a lot. So planning to play him 25+ minutes a night might not have been a good idea. But he made a difference defensively when he was in there and we didn't have a 3rd big. So I really will never understand why he didn't get minutes. Now I do really like Sendy, so while I don't agree with Duling's usage I do usually agree with him and I do still think he's a very good coach. Just my thoughts.


Don’t misunderstand me because I think your analysis is great when it comes to Duling. However the Cavs went to four NBA Finals winning one. Do you really think Crowder and Green would have made that much better? They had no chance the year Love and Irving went down and once Durant went to GS I doubt anything other than another superstar would have put them over the hump (instead they lost one).
04-04-2019 09:58 PM
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