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Buc66 Offline
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ETSU State Funding
The more things change, the more they remain the same.

https://www.johnsoncitypress.com/Educati...U-projects
03-31-2019 04:29 PM
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bucfan81 Online
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RE: ETSU State Funding
Yes I hope they get our funding back. They have to understand that regional, state universities can only do so much fund raising. Public school means public funding. That Humanities building is needed as well as everything else Dr. Noland said.
03-31-2019 05:25 PM
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etsubuc Offline
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RE: ETSU State Funding
I'm not sure how "get our funding back" is accurate. It sounds like the university received an increase in funds from the outcome-based funding as well as a 2 percent faculty/staff raise but isn't currently set to receive funding for some of the additional requests. There are requests throughout the state from every direction that must be prioritized. Bill Lee's funding related to higher education seems to be much more focused on technical schools than universities.
04-01-2019 08:10 AM
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posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Offline
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RE: ETSU State Funding
(04-01-2019 08:10 AM)etsubuc Wrote:  I'm not sure how "get our funding back" is accurate. It sounds like the university received an increase in funds from the outcome-based funding as well as a 2 percent faculty/staff raise but isn't currently set to receive funding for some of the additional requests. There are requests throughout the state from every direction that must be prioritized. Bill Lee's funding related to higher education seems to be much more focused on technical schools than universities.

Correct. How many years did we wait for funding for the arts building (and even then ETSU was required to raise a large percentage from donations)? How many years for the 'new' library? Etc., etc. It's how the 'game' is played. You *always* ask for more than you'll get. It's not that those requests are excessive; it's just that the state of TN doesn't fund (higher) education very well. Without a state income tax (not trying to get political), education is just one of those things which goes wanting. Bluntly - and history of course shows this - TN has failed to grasp the incredible return on investing in education. Don't know what the more recent stats show, but for the longest time it was about an 11-to-1 ROI. How can a state NOT invest in that!?!? Yes, there are places worse, but we all know TN generally comes in in the bottom 10 of state funding for education/capita. (I think we discussed this once or more on the old board.)

There is a news story, or several, every single year of this flavor - going back to my days as a student. The big difference is that back then, the state would pay 100% of every building project. Now, they try to get the individual universities and colleges to share the funding burden by self-raising funds for as many projects as they can. There is a "list" of projects the state has 'agreed' to fund, and it can only go down so far on that list each year. The key is getting highly-placed projects on that list - and Rusty and Noland and all involved know that. That's where influence and lobbying come in. Our humanities building might have cost Austin Peay or Martin an English building. Etc. It'd be a hard sell to raise money for a humanities building, but the arts center made at least some sense. It goes hand-in-hand with moving the costs of higher education from the state to individuals, whether for better and/or worse. Historically, the st. of TN paid for about 2/3 of a student's education (based on costs incurred vs. tuition, fees, etc.). And of course that heavily depended on which department; 2/3 was the round number overall. And I think we know that has been sliding away from that model at about a 1-2%/year (on average) rate. Now, the students bear more than half (think it's well more than half, but not gonna take the time to look it up) the cost of their education, making it closer to (but still far from) the model used by private schools, of course. Which is why tuitions have skyrocketed much faster than inflation.

BucDoctor likely knows more current and specific info on this subject; I'm just painting a rough picture.
04-01-2019 10:48 AM
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bucfan81 Online
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RE: ETSU State Funding
(04-01-2019 08:10 AM)etsubuc Wrote:  I'm not sure how "get our funding back" is accurate. It sounds like the university received an increase in funds from the outcome-based funding as well as a 2 percent faculty/staff raise but isn't currently set to receive funding for some of the additional requests. There are requests throughout the state from every direction that must be prioritized. Bill Lee's funding related to higher education seems to be much more focused on technical schools than universities.

I am not sure either. I was just responding to what I thought the article said. If history has taught us anything it is that if there is anyway for ETSU to get the short end of funding then it will. Been that way forever.
04-01-2019 12:32 PM
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BucDoctor Offline
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RE: ETSU State Funding
(04-01-2019 10:48 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  
(04-01-2019 08:10 AM)etsubuc Wrote:  I'm not sure how "get our funding back" is accurate. It sounds like the university received an increase in funds from the outcome-based funding as well as a 2 percent faculty/staff raise but isn't currently set to receive funding for some of the additional requests. There are requests throughout the state from every direction that must be prioritized. Bill Lee's funding related to higher education seems to be much more focused on technical schools than universities.

Correct. How many years did we wait for funding for the arts building (and even then ETSU was required to raise a large percentage from donations)? How many years for the 'new' library? Etc., etc. It's how the 'game' is played. You *always* ask for more than you'll get. It's not that those requests are excessive; it's just that the state of TN doesn't fund (higher) education very well. Without a state income tax (not trying to get political), education is just one of those things which goes wanting. Bluntly - and history of course shows this - TN has failed to grasp the incredible return on investing in education. Don't know what the more recent stats show, but for the longest time it was about an 11-to-1 ROI. How can a state NOT invest in that!?!? Yes, there are places worse, but we all know TN generally comes in in the bottom 10 of state funding for education/capita. (I think we discussed this once or more on the old board.)

There is a news story, or several, every single year of this flavor - going back to my days as a student. The big difference is that back then, the state would pay 100% of every building project. Now, they try to get the individual universities and colleges to share the funding burden by self-raising funds for as many projects as they can. There is a "list" of projects the state has 'agreed' to fund, and it can only go down so far on that list each year. The key is getting highly-placed projects on that list - and Rusty and Noland and all involved know that. That's where influence and lobbying come in. Our humanities building might have cost Austin Peay or Martin an English building. Etc. It'd be a hard sell to raise money for a humanities building, but the arts center made at least some sense. It goes hand-in-hand with moving the costs of higher education from the state to individuals, whether for better and/or worse. Historically, the st. of TN paid for about 2/3 of a student's education (based on costs incurred vs. tuition, fees, etc.). And of course that heavily depended on which department; 2/3 was the round number overall. And I think we know that has been sliding away from that model at about a 1-2%/year (on average) rate. Now, the students bear more than half (think it's well more than half, but not gonna take the time to look it up) the cost of their education, making it closer to (but still far from) the model used by private schools, of course. Which is why tuitions have skyrocketed much faster than inflation.

BucDoctor likely knows more current and specific info on this subject; I'm just painting a rough picture.

As thedoctor noted, not too long ago (maybe 15 -18 years and that is not long ago a public policy planning), Tennessee had a goal to provide 2/3 of the funding required for a student's higher education and the student to provide 1/3. That trend has reversed and I have seen data that indicates that, at ETSU, the state provides somewhere around 25%, and I have seen 21% in some reports. While the tuition at ETSU is relatively low, every dollar that the state fails to provide, the student must. That is just the reality of public higher education.

The frustrating issue from a perspective of perception (how's that for working in the p words?) is that John Q Public believes Tennessee's public universities are just soaking the students and overly funded. Adjusted for inflation, ETSU has less dollars per student than it had in the early 1990s.

On to the issue of capital funding. In the past THEC had a priority list and the projects on that list were addressed as they rotated up. Beginning last year that list was bypassed and lower priority funding projects were approved. You may see a term used "predictability in funding projects", that is what it refers to, following that list. It is somewhat difficult to raise matching funds when university leaders don't know the timeline/see the timeline changed.

I could talk about this a great deal, but if anyone has questions feel free to PM me.
04-01-2019 01:05 PM
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BucDoctor Offline
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RE: ETSU State Funding
(04-01-2019 12:32 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  
(04-01-2019 08:10 AM)etsubuc Wrote:  I'm not sure how "get our funding back" is accurate. It sounds like the university received an increase in funds from the outcome-based funding as well as a 2 percent faculty/staff raise but isn't currently set to receive funding for some of the additional requests. There are requests throughout the state from every direction that must be prioritized. Bill Lee's funding related to higher education seems to be much more focused on technical schools than universities.

I am not sure either. I was just responding to what I thought the article said. If history has taught us anything it is that if there is anyway for ETSU to get the short end of funding then it will. Been that way forever.

Just one more note. When the state indicates a 2% faculty/staff raise, they only fund a portion of it. The remainder must be funded by the institution and of course at a university that means from student tuition/fees. In effect is is somewhat of an un/underfunded mandate.
04-01-2019 04:29 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: ETSU State Funding
When dealing with politicians, what makes sense to them often makes no sense 01-wingedeagle

https://www.johnsoncitypress.com/Editori...ts-a-break
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2019 02:41 PM by Buc66.)
04-04-2019 02:37 PM
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bucfan81 Online
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RE: ETSU State Funding
(04-04-2019 02:37 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  When dealing with politicians, what makes sense to them often makes no sense 01-wingedeagle

https://www.johnsoncitypress.com/Editori...ts-a-break

Yes I was there during the 70's viscous fight against our medical school. What is scary is how much absolute power and control that they over the politics of Tennessee. I have always wondered by a "great" university would try so hard to stop programs at a smaller, regional school. My total dislike of them continues to this day and nothing has happened to change things. They are just flat out scared of competition our programs would give them and instead of just letting students decide which school to attend they just try to shut down our programs. Go Florida!
04-04-2019 04:17 PM
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BucDoctor Offline
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RE: ETSU State Funding
(04-04-2019 04:17 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  
(04-04-2019 02:37 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  When dealing with politicians, what makes sense to them often makes no sense 01-wingedeagle

https://www.johnsoncitypress.com/Editori...ts-a-break

Yes I was there during the 70's viscous fight against our medical school. What is scary is how much absolute power and control that they over the politics of Tennessee. I have always wondered by a "great" university would try so hard to stop programs at a smaller, regional school. My total dislike of them continues to this day and nothing has happened to change things. They are just flat out scared of competition our programs would give them and instead of just letting students decide which school to attend they just try to shut down our programs. Go Florida!

This has always been baffling to me. Prior to the ETSU pharmacy school, the region's students weren't going to UTHSC in Memphis. They were going to University of Kentucky, VCU, Shenandoah, Mercer, etc. (Two pharmacists in my family, Memphis was never on their radar). If there was no ETSU pharmacy school I suspect they would revert to the previous pattern.

I've never done the research but East Tennessee is purportedly closer to Canada than it is to Memphis (reportedly by approximately 100 "straight line" miles). Folks here don't go to Memphis for anything except possibly St. Judes care.
04-04-2019 06:43 PM
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