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President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #101
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
(04-21-2019 03:47 AM)WMUslappy1 Wrote:  
(04-19-2019 11:24 PM)Rasser Wrote:  
(04-19-2019 10:42 PM)WMUslappy1 Wrote:  
(04-19-2019 06:57 PM)Rasser Wrote:  
(04-19-2019 06:28 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  Or a man who knows what the naming of a special counsel brings with it- regardless of being innocent or guilty. I'd be using alot of expletives if someone tried to pull this kind of crap on me.

Please. Go to any site and just read the report. He's dirty AF.

So many ways, and Barr was flat out lying for the last three weeks.

Honestly, what could Barr possibly gain by lying? Money, prestige, a place in history? Someone did up anything in this past? Obviously no. If you believe he is lying, give us a legitimate supportive reason. I’ll wait

A REASON why he lied?! How about I don’t care WHY, but he did. He purposely misstated the findings of the report. As to why? That’s anyone’s guess, but facts matter. Not motive.

Keep beating that hollow drum. Barr has no reason to lie. BTW the poster child for lying is that nut bag Hillary. You being an expert on the subject should be able to site numerous Hillary examples If you need help,let me know. I’m no fan you trump as a person. To disrespect Barr as a lier and site no specifics?

Wow, that’s a cool deflection. “But Hillary”04-rock how new.

We aren’t talking about Hillary. We are talking about a POTUS who is caught, documented, and repeatedly verified as a dirty, dishonest and unethical president.

Barr’s lies? Where do you start? How about his four page, flat out lie of a summary that legal people saw right though before even seeing the redacted report? They all said, “I’m willing to bet there’s a big omission that begins with ‘Although’ or ‘However’. Baghdad Bob Kellyanne’s husband himself called that one.

His testimony before Congress he flat out lied. The man wrote an opinion over a year before he had the job saying Trump can’t be guilty of obstruction because he’s the POTUS and can’t be indicted. That right there should signal that he should recuse himself, not run a smokescreen interference.

I’m still curious why you have to have motive to argue IF he lied. Makes no sense. If you read the report, and watch and listen to his actions leading up, he’s lying and covering up. I don’t care as to why.
(This post was last modified: 04-21-2019 08:40 AM by Rasser.)
04-21-2019 08:20 AM
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ess Offline
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Post: #102
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
(04-20-2019 09:13 PM)pono Wrote:  #3 Sanders, AOC, etc... are popular because they tap into the truth that capitalism in it's current form is unsustainable and responsible for many of the social issues we misunderstand.

Sanders, AOC, etc...are popular because they appeal to people's sense of envy (they attempt to legitimize this negative emotion by appealing to an undefined "sense of fairness") ,and because they promise to give people stuff for "free".

It is (very) legitimate to point out problems in our society.

And you can blame our current economic system

But it is inaccurate (or dishonest) to label our current system as capitalism ("capitalism in it's current form")

Our economic system in no way represents capitalism.

Even our resident "socialist" on the board (Haymond) admits this.

A capitalist society would not allow government/bankers to monopolize the money supply, and short term interest rates.

Nor would it allow government (enforced) cronyism.

Or government (enforced) corporatism

Or government promoted moral hazard.

Or a BLOATED bureaucracy, and a (broke/broken) welfare state.

Or millions (tens of millions, hundreds of millions...???) federal laws that attempt to regulate every nook and cranny of our lives.

A more accurate assessment would be that Sanders and AOC dislike our current MIXED economic system. And that they both desire more government intervention, more centralized power, a bigger welfare state, more government enforced cronyism/corporatism, and more regulations as the way to fix what ails us.

Their position may be correct.

I (strongly) disagree with them.

Either way.

They (absolutely) are NOT attempting to remedy shortcomings or problems caused by "capitalism".
(This post was last modified: 04-21-2019 08:50 AM by ess.)
04-21-2019 08:38 AM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #103
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
I’d say Sanders, AOC, and even the orangeidiot in the 2016 campaign touched less on a “sense of envy” and more on something is really wrong with our current application of capitalism and voters weren’t in on the secret.
(This post was last modified: 04-21-2019 09:01 AM by Rasser.)
04-21-2019 08:45 AM
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ess Offline
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Post: #104
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
(04-21-2019 08:45 AM)Rasser Wrote:  I’d say Sanders, AOC, and even the orangeidiot in the 2016 campaign touched less on a “sense of envy” and more on something is really wrong with our current application of capitalism and they weren’t in on the secret.

Anytime a politician appeals to "fairness" (never actually defined), they are attempting to harness and take advantage of envy.

We could just as easily say our that our problems are due to the current application of socialism in our mixed economy.
(This post was last modified: 04-21-2019 09:13 AM by ess.)
04-21-2019 09:01 AM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #105
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
(04-21-2019 09:01 AM)ess Wrote:  
(04-21-2019 08:45 AM)Rasser Wrote:  I’d say Sanders, AOC, and even the orangeidiot in the 2016 campaign touched less on a “sense of envy” and more on something is really wrong with our current application of capitalism and they weren’t in on the secret.

We could just as easily say our that our problems are due to the current application of socialism in our mixed economy.

Saying there’s even a problem would be a good start. That’s been suppressed for decades.
04-21-2019 09:10 AM
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Broncos83 Offline
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Post: #106
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
(04-21-2019 03:51 AM)WMUslappy1 Wrote:  
(04-20-2019 07:45 PM)Broncos83 Wrote:  I’ve just begun reading the actual Mueller report. Quick observation...if you Trump suckups can’t see that this is written as a road map for an obstruction indictment the day he leaves office, you’re even further gone than it appears. He’s so toast it’s not even funny. And, the fact that he needs to win in 2020 to avoid charges will make him even bat **** crazier that I’d ever imagined. Couple that with the fact that his few “sane” inside White House advisors (that ultimately have saved his ass to date) are gone, while pathetic, this could be an even more unbelievable couple of years ahead. His ass is on the line and he knows it better than anyone (and, he also knows better than anyone his history of shady dealings). He’s sweating profusely as we speak...and not because he’s golfing again and again at his overpriced club.

Jealous much?

Jealous? Of that piece of garbage? Wouldn’t change spots with that man in a million years. I sleep peacefully at night. I imagine he does too just because he has no common sense and feels no guilt. I suspect he is seriously mentally ill.
(This post was last modified: 04-21-2019 10:37 AM by Broncos83.)
04-21-2019 10:36 AM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #107
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
(04-21-2019 09:01 AM)ess Wrote:  
(04-21-2019 08:45 AM)Rasser Wrote:  I’d say Sanders, AOC, and even the orangeidiot in the 2016 campaign touched less on a “sense of envy” and more on something is really wrong with our current application of capitalism and they weren’t in on the secret.

Anytime a politician appeals to "fairness" (never actually defined), they are attempting to harness and take advantage of envy.

We could just as easily say our that our problems are due to the current application of socialism in our mixed economy.

Fair/Unfair is one thing, "life ain't fair". I get that. HOWEVER, playing/living against a stacked deck, a now conspicuous group making the rules, then breaking those roles, and hiding behind the same rules when you are caught is more than unfair. See - "Crash of 2008" and what has transpired since. I believe we're seeing symptoms of just that.

THAT is what those guys touched on, the realization that it's a zero sum game and many are on the wrong end of things. Whether they touched on it intentionally or not in their political doings, they being AOC, Sanders, 45 and the like, it's starting to catch big time. Now we're getting all kinds of crazy proposals to remedy, without really addressing the not communicated root cause.

We really as a society haven't even agreed there is a problem, let alone gone about defining it, which has to happen if we'll ever address. I'm not holding out much hope in my lifetime of ever seeing that.

Which is why I don't get to wrapped around the axle when I see AOC or anyone else make their crazy proposals. Just more noise in "the space".
(This post was last modified: 04-21-2019 11:47 AM by Rasser.)
04-21-2019 11:44 AM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #108
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
(04-21-2019 10:36 AM)Broncos83 Wrote:  
(04-21-2019 03:51 AM)WMUslappy1 Wrote:  
(04-20-2019 07:45 PM)Broncos83 Wrote:  I’ve just begun reading the actual Mueller report. Quick observation...if you Trump suckups can’t see that this is written as a road map for an obstruction indictment the day he leaves office, you’re even further gone than it appears. He’s so toast it’s not even funny. And, the fact that he needs to win in 2020 to avoid charges will make him even bat **** crazier that I’d ever imagined. Couple that with the fact that his few “sane” inside White House advisors (that ultimately have saved his ass to date) are gone, while pathetic, this could be an even more unbelievable couple of years ahead. His ass is on the line and he knows it better than anyone (and, he also knows better than anyone his history of shady dealings). He’s sweating profusely as we speak...and not because he’s golfing again and again at his overpriced club.

Jealous much?

Jealous? Of that piece of garbage? Wouldn’t change spots with that man in a million years. I sleep peacefully at night. I imagine he does too just because he has no common sense and feels no guilt. I suspect he is seriously mentally ill.

He's one warped individual who has an ability to gain and keep followers like I have never seen in my lifetime. Scary.
04-21-2019 11:48 AM
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GullLake Offline
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Post: #109
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
Here is a column from the Detroit News that is appropriate for Easter Sunday:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinio...519381002/

Go Broncos!
04-21-2019 01:41 PM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #110
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
(04-21-2019 01:41 PM)GullLake Wrote:  Here is a column from the Detroit News that is appropriate for Easter Sunday:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinio...519381002/

Go Broncos!

Yes, in the spirit of Easter, don't have contempt for Trump being a rotten SOB, liar, criminal conspirator against his country or our democratic process, and pay no attention to the 11 charges outlined in the Mueller Report for congress to act on, explaining that he was unable because of the DOJ ruling. Instead, be a sport, take it like an adult, just be kind.

In other words, "Don't act like we did to get him elected" 03-phew
(This post was last modified: 04-21-2019 03:36 PM by Rasser.)
04-21-2019 03:26 PM
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MajorHoople Offline
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Post: #111
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
To paraphrase a famous man:

"Crooked Donald!!"

"Lock him up!!"
04-21-2019 03:35 PM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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Post: #112
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
(04-25-2019 10:28 PM)Rasser Wrote:  Trump's personal friend on Fox, Judge Napolitano.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019...stice.html via @slate

Of course Napolitano hates Trump. Dershowitz said the Mueller Report fails to mention the Bush Case(precedent) . According to Dershowitz, Mueller couldn't charge Trump(the President) with obstruction, when he has the Constitutional right to fire Comey, etc.
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2019 11:07 PM by Boca Rocket.)
04-25-2019 11:04 PM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #113
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
(04-25-2019 11:04 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(04-25-2019 10:28 PM)Rasser Wrote:  Trump's personal friend on Fox, Judge Napolitano.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019...stice.html via @slate

Of course Napolitano hates Trump. Dershowitz said the Mueller Report fails to mention the Bush Case(precedent) . According to Dershowitz, Mueller couldn't charge Trump(the President) with obstruction, when he has the Constitutional right to fire Comey, etc.

Nap has been in Trumps corner, irrationally supporting him and all in on Fox and Friends and on Fox News. Until now. Gee, what changed?!

Dersh is old news and irrelevant , he and his pal Epstein have bigger problems.
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2019 07:12 AM by Rasser.)
04-26-2019 07:07 AM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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Post: #114
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
(04-26-2019 07:07 AM)Rasser Wrote:  
(04-25-2019 11:04 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(04-25-2019 10:28 PM)Rasser Wrote:  Trump's personal friend on Fox, Judge Napolitano.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019...stice.html via @slate

Of course Napolitano hates Trump. Dershowitz said the Mueller Report fails to mention the Bush Case(precedent) . According to Dershowitz, Mueller couldn't charge Trump(the President) with obstruction, when he has the Constitutional right to fire Comey, etc.

Nap has been in Trumps corner, irrationally supporting him and all in on Fox and Friends and on Fox News. Until now. Gee, what changed?!

Dersh is old news and irrelevant , he and his pal Epstein have bigger problems.

Epstein has problems, not Dershowitz. He has problems like Hillary did porn videos and Obama gave it up for drugs. Fairy tales.
04-28-2019 08:41 AM
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Broncos83 Offline
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Post: #115
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
Gee, I wonder when President Tanning Bed will send troops/government support, etc. to protect these churches, mosques, synagogues and other gathering places from the effect of our white supremacist “invasion”? Or, will he continue to avoid calling out his unquestioned supporters? Obama wouldn’t call out “radical Muslim extremists”...how will Trump respond to this growing DOMESTIC threat?
04-28-2019 09:28 AM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #116
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
(04-28-2019 08:41 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(04-26-2019 07:07 AM)Rasser Wrote:  
(04-25-2019 11:04 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  
(04-25-2019 10:28 PM)Rasser Wrote:  Trump's personal friend on Fox, Judge Napolitano.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019...stice.html via @slate

Of course Napolitano hates Trump. Dershowitz said the Mueller Report fails to mention the Bush Case(precedent) . According to Dershowitz, Mueller couldn't charge Trump(the President) with obstruction, when he has the Constitutional right to fire Comey, etc.

Nap has been in Trumps corner, irrationally supporting him and all in on Fox and Friends and on Fox News. Until now. Gee, what changed?!

Dersh is old news and irrelevant , he and his pal Epstein have bigger problems.

Epstein has problems, not Dershowitz. He has problems like Hillary did porn videos and Obama gave it up for drugs. Fairy tales.

He just got sued by one of Epstein's victims, Maria Farmer.

Dersh isn't acting like an innocent person in that mess. Plus, since OJ, he's been largely irrelevant and discounted. Lawrence Tribe has replaced him in terms of legal academic relevance.

I care less what Dersh has to weigh on about his smoke screen defenses of Trump when he's on the outside and clueless about what's really happening.

Nap drastically changed his tune when he read the Mueller report and laid out exactly why he feels the way he does. Trump is dirty, and it's starting to stick.

Trump's unhinged speech last night in Wisconsin was something for the ages, if his band of sycophants can't see through his sick rhetoric, our culture and Republic is doomed to third world status.
(This post was last modified: 04-28-2019 09:46 AM by Rasser.)
04-28-2019 09:39 AM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #117
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
(04-28-2019 09:28 AM)Broncos83 Wrote:  Gee, I wonder when President Tanning Bed will send troops/government support, etc. to protect these churches, mosques, synagogues and other gathering places from the effect of our white supremacist “invasion”? Or, will he continue to avoid calling out his unquestioned supporters? Obama wouldn’t call out “radical Muslim extremists”...how will Trump respond to this growing DOMESTIC threat?

He doubled down on his Charlottesville rhetoric.

So I'm sure he'll just say there are good people on both sides of the shooting. Orange idiot.
04-28-2019 09:40 AM
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HaymondAtThe4 Offline
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Post: #118
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
[/quote]
But it is inaccurate (or dishonest) to label our current system as capitalism ("capitalism in it's current form")

Our economic system in no way represents capitalism.

Even our resident "socialist" on the board (Haymond) admits this.
[/quote]

Hold up. I definitely believe the current system is a great representation of capitalism. All the monopoly, corruption, and cronyism you describe is an inevitable feature of capitalism, not a bug. Without strong protections against it, capital inevitably concentrates. And concentrated capital is concentrated power. That power inevitably targets the state in order to capture it and promote capital's interests.
04-29-2019 12:37 PM
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Rasser Offline
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Post: #119
RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
But it is inaccurate (or dishonest) to label our current system as capitalism ("capitalism in it's current form")

Our economic system in no way represents capitalism.

Even our resident "socialist" on the board (Haymond) admits this.
[/quote]

Hold up. I definitely believe the current system is a great representation of capitalism. All the monopoly, corruption, and cronyism you describe is an inevitable feature of capitalism, not a bug. Without strong protections against it, capital inevitably concentrates. And concentrated capital is concentrated power. That power inevitably targets the state in order to capture it and promote capital's interests.
[/quote]

So in that respect, you feel that Karl Marx was right about capitalism?
04-29-2019 04:34 PM
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HaymondAtThe4 Offline
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RE: President dumb*** Lying his Ass off in GR!
Man I messed up that quote function bad. But yeah. I haven't read a ton of Marx, but I know he writes about capitalism's trajectory toward monopoly, and I think that's right. And I know he writes about the state serving the interests of capital, and I think that's right.

I just got done teaching 7th graders about the Gilded Age and the parallels to today were striking. Eventually that economic system, laissez faire capitalism, led to the Great Depression. That brand of capitalism became so massively unpopular that the state busted up monopolies, passed the New Deal, and promoted a seat at the table for organized labor. That new version of capitalism worked much better for working people and was very popular, but the whole time capital was plotting the overthrow of that New Deal consensus. And when it comes to politics they have a huge advantage over labor. They can pay people to do their political bidding while working people have to do it either on nights and weekends or through their unions.

I have a cousin who is thinking about running for state senate as a moderate democrat (I'm working on him lol) in Iowa. He said he was told he'd have to raise $100k to be able to compete. If he gets that $100k it will probably have come mostly from capital. Maybe he'll get some from the teacher's union, as that's one of the last that hasn't been totally crushed, but most of it will come from capital, from employers.

Sometimes (often) employers' and employees' interests on certain topics (monopoly, wages, collective bargaining, tax rate, etc.) will naturally diverge. If voters, who are overwhelmingly employees, are just coming off a Great Depression, maybe they can still push that state senator to work in their interest. Maybe when he floats the idea of slashing public spending and corporate tax rates, they'll recognize that as the type of thinking that led to the Depression. But maybe 40 decent years go by and things seem pretty ok and the working class becomes a little less vigilant and organized. Then that state senator becomes more likely to side with the people who supplied him the $100k he needed to compete.

For me that's how the people who own all the stuff always end up dominating the state under capitalism. That tendency can be reigned in as it was under the New Deal, and that's great while it lasts, but my impression is that that kinder capitalism can never last very long because capital has enormous advantages when it comes to influencing the state. And capital will use that influence to eventually erode any gains the working class was able to eek out of whatever crisis laissez faire capitalism led to.

So it just goes unchecked capitalism, huge levels of inequality and poverty, economic crisis, activism against unchecked capitalism, checked capitalism, development of a middle class and a raised standard of living for workers, content and less vigilant workers (and a middle class that maybe doesn't see themselves as part of the working class anymore politically thus eroding solidarity), resurgence of capital's influence relative to labor, unchecked capitalism, huge levels of inequality and poverty, economic crisis, activism against unchecked capitalism, checked capitalism, and so on and so forth.

In order to arrive at this place ideologically it took me a long time, a lot of study, a front-row seat to a decline in the standard of living of a lot of families like mine, the rise of a nakedly corrupt, incompetent, authoritarian, dystopian right-wing, and a toothless, technocratic response from a mainstream liberalism that, to me, appears all too willingly hamstrung by the influence of capital. And now the choice seems to be between socialism, which to me means the workers owning the means of production, and barbarism.

I cannot believe I rambled on for this long. May God have mercy on my soul.
04-29-2019 09:31 PM
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