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OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
(06-07-2019 11:20 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(06-07-2019 10:08 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Pay for Buckhantz become the voice of Jmu. Will
Immediately add to the product on flo sports, with the new arena etc and elevate us.

While I conceptually like the idea of this, it adds to the "overheads" of the department.

We already seem to struggle to pay coaches in line with what our peers do who have similar sized budgets. In some ways, I'd prefer the department to operate a little leaner, and reserve those funds for hiring/retaining top coaches.

Make him an offer- couple hundred K to come back to his Alma mater and be the voice of the Dukes. it’s a bold move and on brand in terms of being a nationally relevant sports program with a new arena. Buckhantz is without a gig- he may take it. There is some recent precedent Andy Katz took a job for a time post espn with UConn. Jay Crawford after being let go from espn just took a job as a news anchor back him in Cleveland. No offense to Curt Dudley but to me he’s emblematic of where we have been. We need someone at a different level to reflect where we are going and aspire to be .
(This post was last modified: 06-09-2019 07:35 AM by NJDuke97.)
06-08-2019 09:23 PM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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Post: #22
RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
(06-07-2019 05:21 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  
(06-07-2019 11:20 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(06-07-2019 10:08 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Pay for Buckhantz become the voice of Jmu. Will
Immediately add to the product on flo sports, with the new arena etc and elevate us.

While I conceptually like the idea of this, it adds to the "overheads" of the department.

We already seem to struggle to pay coaches in line with what our peers do who have similar sized budgets. In some ways, I'd prefer the department to operate a little leaner, and reserve those funds for hiring/retaining top coaches.

Man I get so frustrated when I read posts like this. You don’t pay coaches according to your budget. You pay according to what the market is and hope it fits within your budget. We are an FCS school. A top 5-10 FCS school. I expect the JMU football coach to be among the top 10 FCS coaches in salary as long as his performance warrants that type of pay.

Nation, mostly I agree, but in reality it's easy to say NDSU and JMU are perienial top 10 FCS schools, who else? Maybe EWU? Maybe SDSU? Maybe SHDU? You can't take a team who simply has a couple good seasons and say they're a top 10 program and use what they pay as a measuring stick. Maine's coach is not going to have the same expectations placed on his shoulders as the NDSU and JMU coach must carry around. At the FCS level there's certainly market value but it will have more to do with ticket sales and whether the crowd wants him in charge.
06-08-2019 09:49 PM
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JMUNation Offline
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Post: #23
RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
(06-08-2019 09:49 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  
(06-07-2019 05:21 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  
(06-07-2019 11:20 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(06-07-2019 10:08 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Pay for Buckhantz become the voice of Jmu. Will
Immediately add to the product on flo sports, with the new arena etc and elevate us.

While I conceptually like the idea of this, it adds to the "overheads" of the department.

We already seem to struggle to pay coaches in line with what our peers do who have similar sized budgets. In some ways, I'd prefer the department to operate a little leaner, and reserve those funds for hiring/retaining top coaches.

Man I get so frustrated when I read posts like this. You don’t pay coaches according to your budget. You pay according to what the market is and hope it fits within your budget. We are an FCS school. A top 5-10 FCS school. I expect the JMU football coach to be among the top 10 FCS coaches in salary as long as his performance warrants that type of pay.

Nation, mostly I agree, but in reality it's easy to say NDSU and JMU are perienial top 10 FCS schools, who else? Maybe EWU? Maybe SDSU? Maybe SHDU? You can't take a team who simply has a couple good seasons and say they're a top 10 program and use what they pay as a measuring stick. Maine's coach is not going to have the same expectations placed on his shoulders as the NDSU and JMU coach must carry around. At the FCS level there's certainly market value but it will have more to do with ticket sales and whether the crowd wants him in charge.

Who is paying more at the FCS level then JMU at this time?
06-08-2019 11:23 PM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
I’m not complaining about the Cignetti hire- I like it and like him and I think we will be very good under his watch but Jmu football I think with our other advantages could become like a North Dakota State in the sense that you just promote from within if Cignetti ever leaves for a pay day at a P6 school. In doing so you may not need to pay your head football coach as much as Jmu is paying Cignetti and still be very high level in terms of program. If and when that time comes use that money elsewhere where you may need to overpay to get results like men’s hoops.
(This post was last modified: 06-09-2019 07:34 AM by NJDuke97.)
06-09-2019 01:36 AM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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Post: #25
RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
(06-08-2019 11:23 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  
(06-08-2019 09:49 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  
(06-07-2019 05:21 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  
(06-07-2019 11:20 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(06-07-2019 10:08 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Pay for Buckhantz become the voice of Jmu. Will
Immediately add to the product on flo sports, with the new arena etc and elevate us.

While I conceptually like the idea of this, it adds to the "overheads" of the department.

We already seem to struggle to pay coaches in line with what our peers do who have similar sized budgets. In some ways, I'd prefer the department to operate a little leaner, and reserve those funds for hiring/retaining top coaches.

Man I get so frustrated when I read posts like this. You don’t pay coaches according to your budget. You pay according to what the market is and hope it fits within your budget. We are an FCS school. A top 5-10 FCS school. I expect the JMU football coach to be among the top 10 FCS coaches in salary as long as his performance warrants that type of pay.

Nation, mostly I agree, but in reality it's easy to say NDSU and JMU are perienial top 10 FCS schools, who else? Maybe EWU? Maybe SDSU? Maybe SHDU? You can't take a team who simply has a couple good seasons and say they're a top 10 program and use what they pay as a measuring stick. Maine's coach is not going to have the same expectations placed on his shoulders as the NDSU and JMU coach must carry around. At the FCS level there's certainly market value but it will have more to do with ticket sales and whether the crowd wants him in charge.

Who is paying more at the FCS level then JMU at this time?

What's that got to do with my post? I'm responding to your thoughts.
06-09-2019 07:47 AM
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JMad03 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
(06-09-2019 01:36 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  I’m not complaining about the Cignetti hire- I like it and like him and I think we will be very good under his watch but Jmu football I think with our other advantages could become like a North Dakota State in the sense that you just promote from within if Cignetti ever leaves for a pay day at a P6 school. In doing so you may not need to pay your head football coach as much as Jmu is paying Cignetti and still be very high level in terms of program. If and when that time comes use that money elsewhere where you may need to overpay to get results like men’s hoops.

That works in a scenario where CC doesn't take all of his assistants with him, but if he pulls a Houston then that is incredibly risky. If he leaves a high profile coach behind then I think that is a possibility.
At the same time, at good coordinator does not equal good head coach. Many wanted Kirkpatrick as our HC due to what he did here, but his history as a head coach was not too impressive.
You also get what you pay for. If you are paying less to get a head coach, most likely you are taking a risk. Otherwise why aren't you paying the same? And if we're taking a risk, it's taking a risk that doesn't have to be made. If there's a better coach out there where we would have to pay a little more, then by all means go after that guy.
Let's not forget what happens when JMU tries to get cute and pay less for a coach. They do that for football, and it could set us back years. I'm not adverse to hiring from within, but that hiring has to make sense. He has to be good enough to beat out other possible candidates.
06-09-2019 09:31 AM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
It helps to start with younger coordinators. Houston’s coordinators were older guys who really weren’t head coaching material at this stage. If they were viable head guys they would have been considered and taken the Jmu job over being an assistant at Ecu.
06-09-2019 02:20 PM
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JMUNation Offline
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Post: #28
RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
(06-09-2019 07:47 AM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  
(06-08-2019 11:23 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  
(06-08-2019 09:49 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  
(06-07-2019 05:21 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  
(06-07-2019 11:20 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  While I conceptually like the idea of this, it adds to the "overheads" of the department.

We already seem to struggle to pay coaches in line with what our peers do who have similar sized budgets. In some ways, I'd prefer the department to operate a little leaner, and reserve those funds for hiring/retaining top coaches.

Man I get so frustrated when I read posts like this. You don’t pay coaches according to your budget. You pay according to what the market is and hope it fits within your budget. We are an FCS school. A top 5-10 FCS school. I expect the JMU football coach to be among the top 10 FCS coaches in salary as long as his performance warrants that type of pay.

Nation, mostly I agree, but in reality it's easy to say NDSU and JMU are perienial top 10 FCS schools, who else? Maybe EWU? Maybe SDSU? Maybe SHDU? You can't take a team who simply has a couple good seasons and say they're a top 10 program and use what they pay as a measuring stick. Maine's coach is not going to have the same expectations placed on his shoulders as the NDSU and JMU coach must carry around. At the FCS level there's certainly market value but it will have more to do with ticket sales and whether the crowd wants him in charge.

Who is paying more at the FCS level then JMU at this time?

What's that got to do with my post? I'm responding to your thoughts.

It is an honest question. Who in FCS is paying more than JMU is paying Cig? If Cig is the highest paid coach in FCS, why should JMU be paying more? Cig is already being paid above market. If Cig is the highest paid FCS coach, then there is no measuring stick. JMU is it. Numero uno.
06-09-2019 10:36 PM
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Post: #29
RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
(06-09-2019 10:36 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  
(06-09-2019 07:47 AM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  
(06-08-2019 11:23 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  
(06-08-2019 09:49 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  
(06-07-2019 05:21 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  Man I get so frustrated when I read posts like this. You don’t pay coaches according to your budget. You pay according to what the market is and hope it fits within your budget. We are an FCS school. A top 5-10 FCS school. I expect the JMU football coach to be among the top 10 FCS coaches in salary as long as his performance warrants that type of pay.

Nation, mostly I agree, but in reality it's easy to say NDSU and JMU are perienial top 10 FCS schools, who else? Maybe EWU? Maybe SDSU? Maybe SHDU? You can't take a team who simply has a couple good seasons and say they're a top 10 program and use what they pay as a measuring stick. Maine's coach is not going to have the same expectations placed on his shoulders as the NDSU and JMU coach must carry around. At the FCS level there's certainly market value but it will have more to do with ticket sales and whether the crowd wants him in charge.

Who is paying more at the FCS level then JMU at this time?

What's that got to do with my post? I'm responding to your thoughts.

It is an honest question. Who in FCS is paying more than JMU is paying Cig? If Cig is the highest paid coach in FCS, why should JMU be paying more? Cig is already being paid above market. If Cig is the highest paid FCS coach, then there is no measuring stick. JMU is it. Numero uno.

I haven't heard anyone calling for Cig to be paid more currently. If he matches or tops Houston's results, and we sell out BFS on a regular basis it may be warranted. Doubt it will be easy to find another coach of that caliber. There aren't dozens of Houstons and Cigs floating around.

Rocco is *likely* paid more at UD. He was making 437k in the 2015 timeframe at RU. UD does not release this information, but likely paid more to lure him away.
https://www.aseaofred.com/scanning-fcs-c...-salaries/

Huesman at RU may also make more. According to the below article, he was offered around $430k by RU, but RU also does not release salary.
https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/spor...se/402934/

Not sure why the focus on football salary. In the post you reacted to, I said "top coaches" not football coaches. Most recently I have mentioned basketball and softball coaches with respect to pay. We apparently couldn't afford a more experienced/"proven" coach for MBB, and are at risk of losing our softball coach. We also lost a solid WBB coach, though that was slightly more understandable (but as others said, JMU was too slow to reward KB for success).

I'd like to see JMU hire and retain winning coaches, rather than spend more money on auxiliary staff like a big name announcer. Our athletic overheads seem high relative to our budget, given we spend less on coaches relative to other schools with similar budgets. We spend almost identical money to ECU in published reports, and more than anyone outside the P5 + AAC (P6) schools. We spend FBS money.
https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

It makes sense that schools with larger budgets will eventually hire some of our successful coaches. Schools with smaller fanbases and smaller budgets shouldn't be able to poach our staff.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2019 05:26 AM by JMURocks.)
06-10-2019 05:11 AM
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Deez Nuts Offline
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Post: #30
RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
(06-08-2019 09:23 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  ...
Make him an offer- couple hundred K to come back to his Alma mater and be the voice of the Dukes. ...

that's a good one. JMU - the land where money grows on trees!
06-10-2019 07:27 AM
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AssyrianDuke Offline
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Post: #31
RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
(06-08-2019 09:23 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Make him an offer- couple hundred K to come back to his Alma mater and be the voice of the Dukes. it’s a bold move and on brand in terms of being a nationally relevant sports program with a new arena. Buckhantz is without a gig- he may take it. There is some recent precedent Andy Katz took a job for a time post espn with UConn. Jay Crawford after being let go from espn just took a job as a news anchor back him in Cleveland. No offense to Curt Dudley but to me he’s emblematic of where we have been. We need someone at a different level to reflect where we are going and aspire to be .

Why does it have to be one or the other? I would love to watch a JMU game with Buck doing play by play and Dudley doing some color commentary. I would even love to hear their banter during some of the downtime in the games, reminiscing about JMU/Harrisonburg from before my time (aka when all you old timers went to school here 04-cheers).
06-10-2019 08:25 AM
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Dukester Offline
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Post: #32
RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
(06-08-2019 11:23 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  
(06-08-2019 09:49 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  
(06-07-2019 05:21 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  
(06-07-2019 11:20 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(06-07-2019 10:08 AM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Pay for Buckhantz become the voice of Jmu. Will
Immediately add to the product on flo sports, with the new arena etc and elevate us.

While I conceptually like the idea of this, it adds to the "overheads" of the department.

We already seem to struggle to pay coaches in line with what our peers do who have similar sized budgets. In some ways, I'd prefer the department to operate a little leaner, and reserve those funds for hiring/retaining top coaches.

Man I get so frustrated when I read posts like this. You don’t pay coaches according to your budget. You pay according to what the market is and hope it fits within your budget. We are an FCS school. A top 5-10 FCS school. I expect the JMU football coach to be among the top 10 FCS coaches in salary as long as his performance warrants that type of pay.

Nation, mostly I agree, but in reality it's easy to say NDSU and JMU are perienial top 10 FCS schools, who else? Maybe EWU? Maybe SDSU? Maybe SHDU? You can't take a team who simply has a couple good seasons and say they're a top 10 program and use what they pay as a measuring stick. Maine's coach is not going to have the same expectations placed on his shoulders as the NDSU and JMU coach must carry around. At the FCS level there's certainly market value but it will have more to do with ticket sales and whether the crowd wants him in charge.

Who is paying more at the FCS level then JMU at this time?

Who is paying less in FBS or FCS that averages 23,000 in attandance?

I think the answer would be the same for both questions.
06-10-2019 08:31 AM
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PGJMU2 Offline
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RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
I think we would be surprised at what Buck made as the voice of the wizards. I would be surprised if it was more than $500k. I thought I heard he rec'd about $5k a game. so when the dont make the playoffs or the game is picked up nationally, Buck misssed checks.
06-10-2019 03:59 PM
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chicagoduke Offline
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RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
Guys, Coach Cig isn't going anywhere. He's 58 years old, and would be in his early 60's by the time a team would be tempted to lure him away. We've seen that P5's aren't going to be willing to hire a guy straight from JMU. He'd have to take his next step at a G5 that honestly probably wouldn't pay him that much more than what he's making at JMU. Also, money isn't what motivates Coach Cig. Recall that he took a huge pay cut to go to IUP.

I see him looking to stay at JMU long-term....maybe for 10+ years, banking $500Kish the whole time. He'll pick up 2-3 Natty's along the way and we'll crown him the best football coach JMU has ever had.
06-10-2019 07:04 PM
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Ashby Hall Offline
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RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
(06-10-2019 07:04 PM)chicagoduke Wrote:  Guys, Coach Cig isn't going anywhere. He's 58 years old, and would be in his early 60's by the time a team would be tempted to lure him away. We've seen that P5's aren't going to be willing to hire a guy straight from JMU. He'd have to take his next step at a G5 that honestly probably wouldn't pay him that much more than what he's making at JMU. Also, money isn't what motivates Coach Cig. Recall that he took a huge pay cut to go to IUP.

I see him looking to stay at JMU long-term....maybe for 10+ years, banking $500Kish the whole time. He'll pick up 2-3 Natty's along the way and we'll crown him the best football coach JMU has ever had.

04-cheers
06-10-2019 07:09 PM
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NJDuke97 Offline
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RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
(06-10-2019 08:25 AM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  
(06-08-2019 09:23 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  Make him an offer- couple hundred K to come back to his Alma mater and be the voice of the Dukes. it’s a bold move and on brand in terms of being a nationally relevant sports program with a new arena. Buckhantz is without a gig- he may take it. There is some recent precedent Andy Katz took a job for a time post espn with UConn. Jay Crawford after being let go from espn just took a job as a news anchor back him in Cleveland. No offense to Curt Dudley but to me he’s emblematic of where we have been. We need someone at a different level to reflect where we are going and aspire to be .

Why does it have to be one or the other? I would love to watch a JMU game with Buck doing play by play and Dudley doing some color commentary. I would even love to hear their banter during some of the downtime in the games, reminiscing about JMU/Harrisonburg from before my time (aka when all you old timers went to school here 04-cheers).

Fair point- I didn’t mean to shovel dirt on Curt. You know how pro teams have loyalty contracts with ex players for special events- everything from spring training instructor to ambassador to shaking hands in luxury suites? Get creative Jmu and look at something like that in the budget for Szanaiak and Buck- have them on had to call a few games a year- gives the games some extra juice, keeps them in the regional spot light and not as big a commitment on the wallet for Jmu. Would give the program a bigger time feel for the bigger time venue and bigger time opponent.
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2019 08:50 PM by NJDuke97.)
06-10-2019 08:49 PM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #37
RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
(06-10-2019 07:27 AM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  
(06-08-2019 09:23 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  ...
Make him an offer- couple hundred K to come back to his Alma mater and be the voice of the Dukes. ...

that's a good one. JMU - the land where money grows on trees!

You know I 100% agree with you, but hear me out. It sure didn’t seem like money was an issue in the salary negotiations between Mr. Bolling and Mr. King. I think JMU has quite the budget to spend on staff. It’s just a matter of what Mr. King has decided people are worth.
06-10-2019 09:37 PM
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RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
Obligatory follow-up: No, I don’t think paying Buckhantz is money well-spent.
06-10-2019 09:38 PM
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OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
(06-09-2019 10:36 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  
(06-09-2019 07:47 AM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  
(06-08-2019 11:23 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  
(06-08-2019 09:49 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  
(06-07-2019 05:21 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  Man I get so frustrated when I read posts like this. You don’t pay coaches according to your budget. You pay according to what the market is and hope it fits within your budget. We are an FCS school. A top 5-10 FCS school. I expect the JMU football coach to be among the top 10 FCS coaches in salary as long as his performance warrants that type of pay.

Nation, mostly I agree, but in reality it's easy to say NDSU and JMU are perienial top 10 FCS schools, who else? Maybe EWU? Maybe SDSU? Maybe SHDU? You can't take a team who simply has a couple good seasons and say they're a top 10 program and use what they pay as a measuring stick. Maine's coach is not going to have the same expectations placed on his shoulders as the NDSU and JMU coach must carry around. At the FCS level there's certainly market value but it will have more to do with ticket sales and whether the crowd wants him in charge.

Who is paying more at the FCS level then JMU at this time?

What's that got to do with my post? I'm responding to your thoughts.

It is an honest question. Who in FCS is paying more than JMU is paying Cig? If Cig is the highest paid coach in FCS, why should JMU be paying more? Cig is already being paid above market. If Cig is the highest paid FCS coach, then there is no measuring stick. JMU is it. Numero uno.

I know at least a handful of Ivies are paying more than JMU’s HC. I know the Columbia coach is north of $400k base salary.
06-11-2019 05:00 AM
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Anders Offline
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RE: OT: Steve Buckhantz might be gone?
https://www.bulletsforever.com/2019/12/4...in-kutcher

The article mentions a number of reasons for this but safe to say we're lucky to have Steve Buckhantz calling some games for us.
12-04-2019 07:41 PM
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