(03-27-2019 08:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I wouldn't mind if the NCAA would permit FCS schools to come up. If just 4 schools came up they could have a decent scheduling alliance, joining Liberty, NMSU, and UMass. BYU and Army don't need as much scheduling help but might benefit from having a larger pool of schools looking for October and November games.

There are certainly several schools who aren't full members of FCS conferences that wouldn't be encumbered if they tried to be FBS independents.

I can think of four, if I really stretch it, who aren't rooted in an FCS conference who could make it work.

North Dakota State is the only firm "yes." They raised more money in FY 2017 than anyone in the MAC, C-USA, or Sun Belt with the exception of Arkansas State. They have great fan support, a strong donor base, and I think there would be an appetite for a new challenge. They already recruit a broad swathe of the country and travel well for football, meaning bowl tie-ins could be more favorable than other independents. Just look at the economic impact they've had on Frisco to see what they would do for a bowl city.

South Dakota State also has strong facilities, but fan support and donations are less robust, plus they're an hour from the nearest commercial airport. The location makes it a tough sell, I think.

Missouri State, if they ever got it together on the field, could probably make a go of it. They're right outside of Kansas City and are putting money into facilities. People do seem to give a rip about the program... but they haven't won 7 games in a season in over 20 years and haven't made the playoffs in almost 30.

UC Davis is another with the facilities and clout that I think could make it work. They would have to subsidize it pretty heavily, though, and they already pay quite a bit to finance athletics with not a lot to show for it. Not sure what kind of appetite there is for spending even more, even if it means a better chance of getting on the field against academic peers in the Pac-12.

Of course, this is all hypothetical because the NCAA will never grant waivers to any of these schools the way they did for Liberty. They would need conference invites.

(03-28-2019 08:49 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 08:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I wouldn't mind if the NCAA would permit FCS schools to come up. If just 4 schools came up they could have a decent scheduling alliance, joining Liberty, NMSU, and UMass. BYU and Army don't need as much scheduling help but might benefit from having a larger pool of schools looking for October and November games.

There are certainly several schools who aren't full members of FCS conferences that wouldn't be encumbered if they tried to be FBS independents.

I can think of four, if I really stretch it, who aren't rooted in an FCS conference who could make it work.

North Dakota State is the only firm "yes." They raised more money in FY 2017 than anyone in the MAC, C-USA, or Sun Belt with the exception of Arkansas State. They have great fan support, a strong donor base, and I think there would be an appetite for a new challenge. They already recruit a broad swathe of the country and travel well for football, meaning bowl tie-ins could be more favorable than other independents. Just look at the economic impact they've had on Frisco to see what they would do for a bowl city.

South Dakota State also has strong facilities, but fan support and donations are less robust, plus they're an hour from the nearest commercial airport. The location makes it a tough sell, I think.

Missouri State, if they ever got it together on the field, could probably make a go of it. They're right outside of Kansas City and are putting money into facilities. People do seem to give a rip about the program... but they haven't won 7 games in a season in over 20 years and haven't made the playoffs in almost 30.

UC Davis is another with the facilities and clout that I think could make it work. They would have to subsidize it pretty heavily, though, and they already pay quite a bit to finance athletics with not a lot to show for it. Not sure what kind of appetite there is for spending even more, even if it means a better chance of getting on the field against academic peers in the Pac-12.

Of course, this is all hypothetical because the NCAA will never grant waivers to any of these schools the way they did for Liberty. They would need conference invites.

I actually don't think the NCAA would be a big impediment. If NDSU comes out and say "we have the money to do this, we have the fans, we have all these teams willing to play us, let us do this" then I think the NCAA would let them have a go of it.

The real obstacle is will any schools actually make the push for this?

Missouri State would be on deck for the Sun Belt if they weren't so bad at football. In fact, they probably still are. No need for Indy.

(03-28-2019 08:49 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  Missouri State, if they ever got it together on the field, could probably make a go of it. They're right outside of Kansas City and are putting money into facilities. People do seem to give a rip about the program... but they haven't won 7 games in a season in over 20 years and haven't made the playoffs in almost 30.

Just to this point, there's about a 3-hour drive between KC and Missouri State.

(03-28-2019 09:20 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 08:49 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 08:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I wouldn't mind if the NCAA would permit FCS schools to come up. If just 4 schools came up they could have a decent scheduling alliance, joining Liberty, NMSU, and UMass. BYU and Army don't need as much scheduling help but might benefit from having a larger pool of schools looking for October and November games.

There are certainly several schools who aren't full members of FCS conferences that wouldn't be encumbered if they tried to be FBS independents.

I can think of four, if I really stretch it, who aren't rooted in an FCS conference who could make it work.

North Dakota State is the only firm "yes." They raised more money in FY 2017 than anyone in the MAC, C-USA, or Sun Belt with the exception of Arkansas State. They have great fan support, a strong donor base, and I think there would be an appetite for a new challenge. They already recruit a broad swathe of the country and travel well for football, meaning bowl tie-ins could be more favorable than other independents. Just look at the economic impact they've had on Frisco to see what they would do for a bowl city.

South Dakota State also has strong facilities, but fan support and donations are less robust, plus they're an hour from the nearest commercial airport. The location makes it a tough sell, I think.

Missouri State, if they ever got it together on the field, could probably make a go of it. They're right outside of Kansas City and are putting money into facilities. People do seem to give a rip about the program... but they haven't won 7 games in a season in over 20 years and haven't made the playoffs in almost 30.

UC Davis is another with the facilities and clout that I think could make it work. They would have to subsidize it pretty heavily, though, and they already pay quite a bit to finance athletics with not a lot to show for it. Not sure what kind of appetite there is for spending even more, even if it means a better chance of getting on the field against academic peers in the Pac-12.

Of course, this is all hypothetical because the NCAA will never grant waivers to any of these schools the way they did for Liberty. They would need conference invites.

I actually don't think the NCAA would be a big impediment. If NDSU comes out and say "we have the money to do this, we have the fans, we have all these teams willing to play us, let us do this" then I think the NCAA would let them have a go of it.

The real obstacle is will any schools actually make the push for this?

Exactly. Schools that want to be FBS dont want to be independent. They want the security that a conference provides

(03-28-2019 12:22 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 09:20 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 08:49 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 08:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I wouldn't mind if the NCAA would permit FCS schools to come up. If just 4 schools came up they could have a decent scheduling alliance, joining Liberty, NMSU, and UMass. BYU and Army don't need as much scheduling help but might benefit from having a larger pool of schools looking for October and November games.

There are certainly several schools who aren't full members of FCS conferences that wouldn't be encumbered if they tried to be FBS independents.

I can think of four, if I really stretch it, who aren't rooted in an FCS conference who could make it work.

North Dakota State is the only firm "yes." They raised more money in FY 2017 than anyone in the MAC, C-USA, or Sun Belt with the exception of Arkansas State. They have great fan support, a strong donor base, and I think there would be an appetite for a new challenge. They already recruit a broad swathe of the country and travel well for football, meaning bowl tie-ins could be more favorable than other independents. Just look at the economic impact they've had on Frisco to see what they would do for a bowl city.

South Dakota State also has strong facilities, but fan support and donations are less robust, plus they're an hour from the nearest commercial airport. The location makes it a tough sell, I think.

Missouri State, if they ever got it together on the field, could probably make a go of it. They're right outside of Kansas City and are putting money into facilities. People do seem to give a rip about the program... but they haven't won 7 games in a season in over 20 years and haven't made the playoffs in almost 30.

UC Davis is another with the facilities and clout that I think could make it work. They would have to subsidize it pretty heavily, though, and they already pay quite a bit to finance athletics with not a lot to show for it. Not sure what kind of appetite there is for spending even more, even if it means a better chance of getting on the field against academic peers in the Pac-12.

Of course, this is all hypothetical because the NCAA will never grant waivers to any of these schools the way they did for Liberty. They would need conference invites.

I actually don't think the NCAA would be a big impediment. If NDSU comes out and say "we have the money to do this, we have the fans, we have all these teams willing to play us, let us do this" then I think the NCAA would let them have a go of it.

The real obstacle is will any schools actually make the push for this?

Exactly. Schools that want to be FBS dont want to be independent. They want the security that a conference provides

Yes.

Now if suddenly NDSU decides they don't care about a conference and can prove they have everything in place to go FBS? I don't think the NCAA would stop them.

(03-28-2019 08:49 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 08:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I wouldn't mind if the NCAA would permit FCS schools to come up. If just 4 schools came up they could have a decent scheduling alliance, joining Liberty, NMSU, and UMass. BYU and Army don't need as much scheduling help but might benefit from having a larger pool of schools looking for October and November games.

There are certainly several schools who aren't full members of FCS conferences that wouldn't be encumbered if they tried to be FBS independents.

I can think of four, if I really stretch it, who aren't rooted in an FCS conference who could make it work.

North Dakota State is the only firm "yes." They raised more money in FY 2017 than anyone in the MAC, C-USA, or Sun Belt with the exception of Arkansas State. They have great fan support, a strong donor base, and I think there would be an appetite for a new challenge. They already recruit a broad swathe of the country and travel well for football, meaning bowl tie-ins could be more favorable than other independents. Just look at the economic impact they've had on Frisco to see what they would do for a bowl city.

South Dakota State also has strong facilities, but fan support and donations are less robust, plus they're an hour from the nearest commercial airport. The location makes it a tough sell, I think.

Missouri State, if they ever got it together on the field, could probably make a go of it. They're right outside of Kansas City and are putting money into facilities. People do seem to give a rip about the program... but they haven't won 7 games in a season in over 20 years and haven't made the playoffs in almost 30.

UC Davis is another with the facilities and clout that I think could make it work. They would have to subsidize it pretty heavily, though, and they already pay quite a bit to finance athletics with not a lot to show for it. Not sure what kind of appetite there is for spending even more, even if it means a better chance of getting on the field against academic peers in the Pac-12.

Of course, this is all hypothetical because the NCAA will never grant waivers to any of these schools the way they did for Liberty. They would need conference invites.

I may put James Madison on the list. They would be a school on the list that P5 schools would want to play because they are much stronger in football than other G5 schools in the G5. They just like ODU, could schedule Virginia and Virginia Tech so easily. They could play Liberty and Maryland as well. Marshall and West Virginia not so far off either. That is 6 there already. Add ODU gets them 7. They may get Army and UMass. brings them 9. They could actually give an SEC school an option to play late in the season instead of a FCS school. AAC or ACC schools could fill out the last 2 spots and a Delaware game. They do have fan support and raised money to get upgrades to their facilities already. They are ready to go FBS. They just need the window to go if they are already in talks to schedule 11 FBS opponents for 3 straight years.

(03-28-2019 02:38 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 08:49 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 08:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I wouldn't mind if the NCAA would permit FCS schools to come up. If just 4 schools came up they could have a decent scheduling alliance, joining Liberty, NMSU, and UMass. BYU and Army don't need as much scheduling help but might benefit from having a larger pool of schools looking for October and November games.

There are certainly several schools who aren't full members of FCS conferences that wouldn't be encumbered if they tried to be FBS independents.

I can think of four, if I really stretch it, who aren't rooted in an FCS conference who could make it work.

North Dakota State is the only firm "yes." They raised more money in FY 2017 than anyone in the MAC, C-USA, or Sun Belt with the exception of Arkansas State. They have great fan support, a strong donor base, and I think there would be an appetite for a new challenge. They already recruit a broad swathe of the country and travel well for football, meaning bowl tie-ins could be more favorable than other independents. Just look at the economic impact they've had on Frisco to see what they would do for a bowl city.

South Dakota State also has strong facilities, but fan support and donations are less robust, plus they're an hour from the nearest commercial airport. The location makes it a tough sell, I think.

Missouri State, if they ever got it together on the field, could probably make a go of it. They're right outside of Kansas City and are putting money into facilities. People do seem to give a rip about the program... but they haven't won 7 games in a season in over 20 years and haven't made the playoffs in almost 30.

UC Davis is another with the facilities and clout that I think could make it work. They would have to subsidize it pretty heavily, though, and they already pay quite a bit to finance athletics with not a lot to show for it. Not sure what kind of appetite there is for spending even more, even if it means a better chance of getting on the field against academic peers in the Pac-12.

Of course, this is all hypothetical because the NCAA will never grant waivers to any of these schools the way they did for Liberty. They would need conference invites.

I may put James Madison on the list. They would be a school on the list that P5 schools would want to play because they are much stronger in football than other G5 schools in the G5. They just like ODU, could schedule Virginia and Virginia Tech so easily. They could play Liberty and Maryland as well. Marshall and West Virginia not so far off either. That is 6 there already. Add ODU gets them 7. They may get Army and UMass. brings them 9. They could actually give an SEC school an option to play late in the season instead of a FCS school. AAC or ACC schools could fill out the last 2 spots and a Delaware game. They do have fan support and raised money to get upgrades to their facilities already. They are ready to go FBS. They just need the window to go if they are already in talks to schedule 11 FBS opponents for 3 straight years.

I think if the whole "two bye weeks every season" thing happens, we'll basically see the end of the late season FCS games. Most schools would probably prefer to just have a bye before their rivalry game and use the FCS game for an easy win in September.

The reason for the invite rule is to make sure an independent can meet FBS scheduling requirements.
Having NMSU, U Mass and Liberty agree to play them yearly helps.
Liberty needed three home games year one .
So a hybrid schedule year one and two are possible half FBS half FCS.
Stockpile a few home games maybe play NMSU and Liberty H & H a couple years.
I could see a Youngstown St taking the leap probably playing three or four MAC games a year .
A couple money games and an FCS home game along with other independents .
The risk goes down as more independents jump.
If six were working together so three more BYU and Army would enjoy the option but not commit .
Then seven does not have all that much risk.

(03-28-2019 09:20 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  I actually don't think the NCAA would be a big impediment. If NDSU comes out and say "we have the money to do this, we have the fans, we have all these teams willing to play us, let us do this" then I think the NCAA would let them have a go of it.

The real obstacle is will any schools actually make the push for this?

It would require a groundswell of enthusiasm from teams that don't make sense in a conference together. You would probably need other FCS big-spenders with big (for FCS) venues to make it work like Montana, MSU, JMU, and Delaware... but those teams would likely have to find new homes for their other sports like Liberty did, which makes the move a lot less desirable.

(03-28-2019 09:34 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Missouri State would be on deck for the Sun Belt if they weren't so bad at football. In fact, they probably still are. No need for Indy.

I think they absolutely are; they've been flirting with it for going on two decades. They allegedly turned them down in 2005, but that was a different time in the MVC and the all-sports argument against the move is no longer there. If the Belt was considering Eastern Kentucky and admitted Coastal Carolina of all schools, I have to think they'd love to snag Missouri State.

Here's a thought, and this is purely spitballing here - does being FBS in the first place make a team more palatable to a conference? I kinda feel like the Mountain West would reach out to NMSU for membership before it looks at Montana because they can jump in immediately, despite the fact that Montana is probably in better financial shape, has way more fan support and has their own T. Boone Pickens to bankroll such a move. If jumping up as an independent is a viable step on the path to the ever-nebulous "what's next," a lot of teams could make a run at it.

Consider, 30 years ago, these were the independent FBS teams:

Akron
Army
BC
Cincinnati
East Carolina
Florida State
Louisiana
Louisiana Tech
Louisville
Memphis
Miami
Navy
Northern Illinois
Notre Dame
Penn State
Pitt
Rutgers
South Carolina
Southern Miss
Syracuse
Temple
Tulane
Tulsa
Virginia Tech
West Virginia

Most of those teams eventually found homes in conferences and are now more or less stable FBS schools; some of those schools were real powerhouses as independents. Granted, the economics of the sport are different now, and everyone was still dealing with the fallout of the FBS/FCS split from the decade prior, but an Indie-heavy ecosystem has existed before.

(03-28-2019 09:59 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 08:49 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  Missouri State, if they ever got it together on the field, could probably make a go of it. They're right outside of Kansas City and are putting money into facilities. People do seem to give a rip about the program... but they haven't won 7 games in a season in over 20 years and haven't made the playoffs in almost 30.

Just to this point, there's about a 3-hour drive between KC and Missouri State.

It's a little less than that, isn't it? I thought it was closer to two and a half. Still, that's closer than NDSU is to the Twin Cities and they have a substantial recruiting/alumni presence there. Springfield is not super-hard to get in and out of, I guess was my main point.

(03-29-2019 07:11 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 09:59 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 08:49 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  Missouri State, if they ever got it together on the field, could probably make a go of it. They're right outside of Kansas City and are putting money into facilities. People do seem to give a rip about the program... but they haven't won 7 games in a season in over 20 years and haven't made the playoffs in almost 30.

Just to this point, there's about a 3-hour drive between KC and Missouri State.

It's a little less than that, isn't it? I thought it was closer to two and a half. Still, that's closer than NDSU is to the Twin Cities and they have a substantial recruiting/alumni presence there. Springfield is not super-hard to get in and out of, I guess was my main point.

In any case, Missouri State is not right outside KC. Springfield is southwest MO, KC is northwest MO.

(03-29-2019 07:11 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 09:20 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  I actually don't think the NCAA would be a big impediment. If NDSU comes out and say "we have the money to do this, we have the fans, we have all these teams willing to play us, let us do this" then I think the NCAA would let them have a go of it.

The real obstacle is will any schools actually make the push for this?

It would require a groundswell of enthusiasm from teams that don't make sense in a conference together. You would probably need other FCS big-spenders with big (for FCS) venues to make it work like Montana, MSU, JMU, and Delaware... but those teams would likely have to find new homes for their other sports like Liberty did, which makes the move a lot less desirable.

Perhaps, but I'm just not sure the NCAA has the energy to fight a battle they'll likely lose. Either way, I'm not sure we'll see this in the foreseeable future.

(03-28-2019 12:29 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 12:22 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 09:20 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 08:49 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 08:16 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I wouldn't mind if the NCAA would permit FCS schools to come up. If just 4 schools came up they could have a decent scheduling alliance, joining Liberty, NMSU, and UMass. BYU and Army don't need as much scheduling help but might benefit from having a larger pool of schools looking for October and November games.

There are certainly several schools who aren't full members of FCS conferences that wouldn't be encumbered if they tried to be FBS independents.

I can think of four, if I really stretch it, who aren't rooted in an FCS conference who could make it work.

North Dakota State is the only firm "yes." They raised more money in FY 2017 than anyone in the MAC, C-USA, or Sun Belt with the exception of Arkansas State. They have great fan support, a strong donor base, and I think there would be an appetite for a new challenge. They already recruit a broad swathe of the country and travel well for football, meaning bowl tie-ins could be more favorable than other independents. Just look at the economic impact they've had on Frisco to see what they would do for a bowl city.

South Dakota State also has strong facilities, but fan support and donations are less robust, plus they're an hour from the nearest commercial airport. The location makes it a tough sell, I think.

Missouri State, if they ever got it together on the field, could probably make a go of it. They're right outside of Kansas City and are putting money into facilities. People do seem to give a rip about the program... but they haven't won 7 games in a season in over 20 years and haven't made the playoffs in almost 30.

UC Davis is another with the facilities and clout that I think could make it work. They would have to subsidize it pretty heavily, though, and they already pay quite a bit to finance athletics with not a lot to show for it. Not sure what kind of appetite there is for spending even more, even if it means a better chance of getting on the field against academic peers in the Pac-12.

Of course, this is all hypothetical because the NCAA will never grant waivers to any of these schools the way they did for Liberty. They would need conference invites.

I actually don't think the NCAA would be a big impediment. If NDSU comes out and say "we have the money to do this, we have the fans, we have all these teams willing to play us, let us do this" then I think the NCAA would let them have a go of it.

The real obstacle is will any schools actually make the push for this?

Exactly. Schools that want to be FBS dont want to be independent. They want the security that a conference provides

Yes.

Now if suddenly NDSU decides they don't care about a conference and can prove they have everything in place to go FBS? I don't think the NCAA would stop them.

NDSU is actually one of the few schools that could make FBS independent work if they wanted. Since the Summit is non football, their football program is not tied to their future in that league for all other sports. The Summit wouldn't care if NDSU was an affiliate of the MVC for football or FBS independent.

But going FBS independent would mean giving up games against the other Dakotas, playing a mishmash of Sunbelt, MAC and MWC schools at home, and going on the road for more buy games then they have now. The fanbase would really have to be bought in

Unless a stable FBS conference opportunity presented itself why take such a risk for FBS, especially when they are so successful at FCS level

(03-29-2019 09:18 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 12:29 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 12:22 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 09:20 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 08:49 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  I can think of four, if I really stretch it, who aren't rooted in an FCS conference who could make it work.

North Dakota State is the only firm "yes." They raised more money in FY 2017 than anyone in the MAC, C-USA, or Sun Belt with the exception of Arkansas State. They have great fan support, a strong donor base, and I think there would be an appetite for a new challenge. They already recruit a broad swathe of the country and travel well for football, meaning bowl tie-ins could be more favorable than other independents. Just look at the economic impact they've had on Frisco to see what they would do for a bowl city.

South Dakota State also has strong facilities, but fan support and donations are less robust, plus they're an hour from the nearest commercial airport. The location makes it a tough sell, I think.

Missouri State, if they ever got it together on the field, could probably make a go of it. They're right outside of Kansas City and are putting money into facilities. People do seem to give a rip about the program... but they haven't won 7 games in a season in over 20 years and haven't made the playoffs in almost 30.

UC Davis is another with the facilities and clout that I think could make it work. They would have to subsidize it pretty heavily, though, and they already pay quite a bit to finance athletics with not a lot to show for it. Not sure what kind of appetite there is for spending even more, even if it means a better chance of getting on the field against academic peers in the Pac-12.

Of course, this is all hypothetical because the NCAA will never grant waivers to any of these schools the way they did for Liberty. They would need conference invites.

I actually don't think the NCAA would be a big impediment. If NDSU comes out and say "we have the money to do this, we have the fans, we have all these teams willing to play us, let us do this" then I think the NCAA would let them have a go of it.

The real obstacle is will any schools actually make the push for this?

Exactly. Schools that want to be FBS dont want to be independent. They want the security that a conference provides

Yes.

Now if suddenly NDSU decides they don't care about a conference and can prove they have everything in place to go FBS? I don't think the NCAA would stop them.

NDSU is actually one of the few schools that could make FBS independent work if they wanted. Since the Summit is non football, their football program is not tied to their future in that league for all other sports. The Summit wouldn't care if NDSU was an affiliate of the MVC for football or FBS independent.

But going FBS independent would mean giving up games against the other Dakotas, playing a mishmash of Sunbelt, MAC and MWC schools at home, and going on the road for more buy games then they have now. The fanbase would really have to be bought in

Unless a stable FBS conference opportunity presented itself why take such a risk for FBS, especially when they are so successful at FCS level

All of MVFC could do it since they all are not tied to a conference.

North Dakota
North Dakota State
Western Illinois
Missouri State
Northern Iowa
Southern Illinois
Illinois State
Indiana State
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Youngstown State

ASUN's Kennesaw State and North Alabama are not tied with their other sports. CAA seems to be the same way. CAA is basically more about sports than football. You have more affiliates for football than you do with CAA schools.

Albany
Stony Brook
Maine
New Hampshire
URI
Richmond
Villanova

(03-29-2019 07:11 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 09:20 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  I actually don't think the NCAA would be a big impediment. If NDSU comes out and say "we have the money to do this, we have the fans, we have all these teams willing to play us, let us do this" then I think the NCAA would let them have a go of it.

The real obstacle is will any schools actually make the push for this?

It would require a groundswell of enthusiasm from teams that don't make sense in a conference together. You would probably need other FCS big-spenders with big (for FCS) venues to make it work like Montana, MSU, JMU, and Delaware... but those teams would likely have to find new homes for their other sports like Liberty did, which makes the move a lot less desirable.

(03-28-2019 09:34 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Missouri State would be on deck for the Sun Belt if they weren't so bad at football. In fact, they probably still are. No need for Indy.

I think they absolutely are; they've been flirting with it for going on two decades. They allegedly turned them down in 2005, but that was a different time in the MVC and the all-sports argument against the move is no longer there. If the Belt was considering Eastern Kentucky and admitted Coastal Carolina of all schools, I have to think they'd love to snag Missouri State.

Here's a thought, and this is purely spitballing here - does being FBS in the first place make a team more palatable to a conference? I kinda feel like the Mountain West would reach out to NMSU for membership before it looks at Montana because they can jump in immediately, despite the fact that Montana is probably in better financial shape, has way more fan support and has their own T. Boone Pickens to bankroll such a move. If jumping up as an independent is a viable step on the path to the ever-nebulous "what's next," a lot of teams could make a run at it.

Consider, 30 years ago, these were the independent FBS teams:

Akron
Army
BC
Cincinnati
East Carolina
Florida State
Louisiana
Louisiana Tech
Louisville
Memphis
Miami
Navy
Northern Illinois
Notre Dame
Penn State
Pitt
Rutgers
South Carolina
Southern Miss
Syracuse
Temple
Tulane
Tulsa
Virginia Tech
West Virginia

Most of those teams eventually found homes in conferences and are now more or less stable FBS schools; some of those schools were real powerhouses as independents. Granted, the economics of the sport are different now, and everyone was still dealing with the fallout of the FBS/FCS split from the decade prior, but an Indie-heavy ecosystem has existed before.

(03-28-2019 09:59 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 08:49 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  Missouri State, if they ever got it together on the field, could probably make a go of it. They're right outside of Kansas City and are putting money into facilities. People do seem to give a rip about the program... but they haven't won 7 games in a season in over 20 years and haven't made the playoffs in almost 30.

Just to this point, there's about a 3-hour drive between KC and Missouri State.

It's a little less than that, isn't it? I thought it was closer to two and a half. Still, that's closer than NDSU is to the Twin Cities and they have a substantial recruiting/alumni presence there. Springfield is not super-hard to get in and out of, I guess was my main point.

St. Louis is the bigger market for us actually. Its a bigger market than KC anyways. KC is fractured, more schools in the general area.

(03-29-2019 09:18 AM)solohawks Wrote:  NDSU is actually one of the few schools that could make FBS independent work if they wanted. Since the Summit is non football, their football program is not tied to their future in that league for all other sports. The Summit wouldn't care if NDSU was an affiliate of the MVC for football or FBS independent.

But going FBS independent would mean giving up games against the other Dakotas, playing a mishmash of Sunbelt, MAC and MWC schools at home, and going on the road for more buy games then they have now. The fanbase would really have to be bought in

I think they would be. They went Division 1 to get away from the North Central Conference in the first place. I think the only one they'd miss is SDSU, and there's no reason that game can't continue to be played if both teams want it. Certainly NDSU would love to still have one regional fixture on the schedule, and they would probably prefer it be SDSU.

They've won 7 of the last 8 titles. More than anyone has ever won in FCS. Some of their games have been so lopsided that the stadium empties out at halftime. It's tough to imagine being numb to success, but there does seem to be a bit of that. There's a cache to having Big Ten schools or Mountain West schools on the schedule on the regular that I think would resonate with people. It would feel more "big time," even if they win less.

(03-29-2019 09:18 AM)solohawks Wrote:  NDSU is actually one of the few schools that could make FBS independent work if they wanted. Since the Summit is non football, their football program is not tied to their future in that league for all other sports. The Summit wouldn't care if NDSU was an affiliate of the MVC for football or FBS independent.

But going FBS independent would mean giving up games against the other Dakotas, playing a mishmash of Sunbelt, MAC and MWC schools at home, and going on the road for more buy games then they have now. The fanbase would really have to be bought in

Unless a stable FBS conference opportunity presented itself why take such a risk for FBS, especially when they are so successful at FCS level

Ohh, I totally agree. I think they're happy where they are and now that North Dakota is coming into the conference they really are in a perfect situation.

(03-29-2019 12:21 PM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  

(03-29-2019 09:18 AM)solohawks Wrote:  NDSU is actually one of the few schools that could make FBS independent work if they wanted. Since the Summit is non football, their football program is not tied to their future in that league for all other sports. The Summit wouldn't care if NDSU was an affiliate of the MVC for football or FBS independent.

But going FBS independent would mean giving up games against the other Dakotas, playing a mishmash of Sunbelt, MAC and MWC schools at home, and going on the road for more buy games then they have now. The fanbase would really have to be bought in

I think they would be. They went Division 1 to get away from the North Central Conference in the first place. I think the only one they'd miss is SDSU, and there's no reason that game can't continue to be played if both teams want it. Certainly NDSU would love to have at least one regional fixture on the schedule.

They've won 7 of the last 8 titles. More than anyone has ever won in FCS. Some of their games have been so lopsided that the stadium empties out at halftime. It's tough to imagine being numb to success, but there does seem to be a bit of that. There's a cache to having Big Ten schools or Mountain West schools on the schedule on the regular that I think would resonate with people. It would feel more "big time," even if they win less.

I do also think they could pull it off if they wanted to, especially if they got SDSU to go all in with them and go up as a unit.

Could easily schedule home and homes with NMSU and probably Liberty, BYU, and UMass most years. Take two Big Ten buy games. Maybe get a few one off MWC 2 for 1s or home and homes. Then play South Dakota and North Dakota as FCS games.

Imagine an NDSU schedule like this:

@Minnesota
Wyoming
@Nebraska
North Dakota
Northern Illinois
@Liberty
BYE
@Colorado State
NMSU
@Fresno State
UMass
@BYU
SDSU

No current conference is adding

Liberty
NDSU
SDSU
Montana
Montana St
Geography kills these well supported programs except Liberty .
U Mass , JMU and Missouri St like their all sports conference better than SBC.

UC Davis needs a starter conference MWC wont call them up.
YSU and JSU look like MAC and SBC schools facilities wise but are locked out.

Maybe none of them take the risk.
Times change so do priorities.
If we had eight or nine independents BYU and Army being high profile.
I could see independents gaining access to the Access bowl and more money in the next contract.
Each independent getting half what a G5 does so 600k plus APR 300k.
Money games are double sometimes triple if FBS .
Bowl game tie ins could be worked out easily depending on which schools moved up.

(03-29-2019 07:23 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(03-29-2019 07:11 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 09:59 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 08:49 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  Missouri State, if they ever got it together on the field, could probably make a go of it. They're right outside of Kansas City and are putting money into facilities. People do seem to give a rip about the program... but they haven't won 7 games in a season in over 20 years and haven't made the playoffs in almost 30.

Just to this point, there's about a 3-hour drive between KC and Missouri State.

It's a little less than that, isn't it? I thought it was closer to two and a half. Still, that's closer than NDSU is to the Twin Cities and they have a substantial recruiting/alumni presence there. Springfield is not super-hard to get in and out of, I guess was my main point.

In any case, Missouri State is not right outside KC. Springfield is southwest MO, KC is northwest MO.

Missouri State is closer to the University of Arkansas than it is to Kansas City or St. Louis.