Tribeheart- Thanks for this post and positive perspective on the current situation. Patience can provide calm and peace until facts are decided.
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Ah, yes, patience. Patience would be letting Coach Shaver lead the team he built - those five returning starters who signed to play for him, the team that would have been the favorite to win the CAA next year.

What I like is that each one whose said they’re looking at transferring very clearly also says I’m open to staying. The transfer world moves fast and you have to let people know you’re open, so I get that. Everyone is also open to returning, so I hope we’re able to keep some (maybe all? But even I don’t have that much kool aid).

As of right now we have two big guys to build a tram around. Keep a couple guards and it could still be a really good (albeit not deep) team.


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Patience? Can you imagine the kind of stress these players and their families are under right now? They signed on to play for Shaver and his assistants and that's been taken away. The campus housing lottery is happening this week, they have classes to attend every day and they have exams right around the corner. Transferring will be a huge upheaval for these young men and their families and I don't think any of them expected or wanted to be in this situation. No matter how anyone tries to spin this, five players in the transfer portal is not normal and for these players to be put in this situation is horrible. They deserve better.

(03-27-2019 07:29 AM)88tribefan Wrote:  Patience? Can you imagine the kind of stress these players and their families are under right now? They signed on to play for Shaver and his assistants and that's been taken away. The campus housing lottery is happening this week, they have classes to attend every day and they have exams right around the corner. Transferring will be a huge upheaval for these young men and their families and I don't think any of them expected or wanted to be in this situation. No matter how anyone tries to spin this, five players in the transfer portal is not normal and for these players to be put in this situation is horrible. They deserve better.

You would be hard pressed to find anyone on these boards who disagree with you. I think that all that Tribeheart is doing is encouraging all of us here to breathe. Patience and postal are our only choices at this point. I, for one, am just plain exhausted.

(03-27-2019 07:54 AM)WMTRIBE75 Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 07:29 AM)88tribefan Wrote:  Patience? Can you imagine the kind of stress these players and their families are under right now? They signed on to play for Shaver and his assistants and that's been taken away. The campus housing lottery is happening this week, they have classes to attend every day and they have exams right around the corner. Transferring will be a huge upheaval for these young men and their families and I don't think any of them expected or wanted to be in this situation. No matter how anyone tries to spin this, five players in the transfer portal is not normal and for these players to be put in this situation is horrible. They deserve better.

You would be hard pressed to find anyone on these boards who disagree with you. I think that all that Tribeheart is doing is encouraging all of us here to breathe. Patience and postal are our only choices at this point. I, for one, am just plain exhausted.

Me too, but at the same time I wish there was something we could DO about it.

I know people don't like to hear patience as fans and especially regarding the kids it effects.
We've also talked about how important this hire is. It does no good to rush into a hire to make people feel better if it isnt the right guy. Get the hire right. Rerecruit the guys that do actually want to stay here. Start the process of building.

(03-27-2019 09:18 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  We've also talked about how important this hire is. It does no good to rush into a hire to make people feel better if it isnt the right guy. Get the hire right. Rerecruit the guys that do actually want to stay here. Start the process of building.

I don’t disagree.

But I can’t agree because of how W&M finds itself in this situation.

Your last word- “building”- brought a good analogy to mind.

Giants Stadium was a great place to watch an event. They tore it down and replaced it with Met Life. In the process of doing that, the Jets and Giants eviscerated their waiting lists as the teams got greedy with seat selection in the new stadium, Met Life, and also lost a lot of loyal fans that had supported them through the years for the same reason. The kicker? Giants Stadium (the old one) was a better stadium for the fans than Met Life (the new stadium).

In W&M’s situation, the fan base is ticked off. The level of the fury awaits the naming of the new coach.

So, we simmer ... patiently.

(03-27-2019 09:18 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  I know people don't like to hear patience as fans and especially regarding the kids it effects.
We've also talked about how important this hire is. It does no good to rush into a hire to make people feel better if it isnt the right guy. Get the hire right. Rerecruit the guys that do actually want to stay here. Start the process of building.

Agreed. Rebooting the program is going to require a longer-term perspective.

This is part of the anger at firing Shaver--realistically, by changing coaches, we all know we're blowing up the 2020 season and whatever promise it may have held.

But now that we've crossed that Rubicon, I don't think we should measure the success of the hire based on whether our current players and recruits are retained. The measuring stick is whether the new staff can ultimately build the program higher than Shaver & Co. did. That is not going to happen in year one. Any success in 2020 would be a bonus. For the sake of the players who stick around, I hope they have a nice season.

Yes, and you’ll probably be paying higher ticket prices as we build towards the Dance with a new coach, never knowing whether you could have gotten to the Dance in 2020 with the old coach, and lower prices.

Like buying new cars, refrig., washers, dryers, etc. .... the old one worked just fine, got the job done, all at a lower cost.

(03-27-2019 11:29 AM)nj alum Wrote:  Yes, and you’ll probably be paying higher ticket prices as we build towards the Dance with a new coach, never knowing whether you could have gotten to the Dance in 2020 with the old coach, and lower prices.

Like buying new cars, refrig., washers, dryers, etc. .... the old one worked just fine, got the job done, all at a lower cost.

Spot on!!

I'm all for semantics, but...

Doesn't read like he's on the fence.




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I think that is Verbal Commits standard tweet for transfers - nothing to read into.

This hurts for the kids and their families even more than for Coach Shaver. At least Coach thanks to the prior administration will get a 1.7 million retirement package. But, when this decision was made, there is no other realistic message sent to the players than we don't think you can get this done. It is bad for all of the players even if some or many stay. For Andy Van Vliet it might be the worst. He never even got to play in one game with the coaches he transferred in to work with. Now, he is basically trapped here with whoever is left. For Nathan, he just had one of the best Tribe seasons ever and his next season and final season(if he even stays) may be with 3-4 returning basketball players and a couple football players. I just cannot believe that another option wasn't attempted. Look, we all get to move on. Some of us can stop following Tribe sports and do something else, some can look at it as a long term new project starting over. But those guys on that team have lost more than that. Feel terrible for all of them.

IF a decisionmaker felt the players had no blame, then there were other options than the one we took. There were lots of ways it could have been done that would have provided more stability and less chance guys would leave. Perhaps, ultimately, some think it is good that they go. I'll just say that if a hypothetical program were able to sign all 5 and have them play immediately(I know that can't happen since Pierce and Milon will play in 19-20 and the others cannot). that team would look very, very solid. Hope the Tribe baseball turns things around tonight.

Can we please stop with this "the kids are victims!" narrative? For one thing, they're adults; this infantilizing is nauseating. They still have their scholarship to a top university in exchange for playing basketball. They have the option to transfer if they so choose. It takes a tremendous lack of perspective to be able to look at their situation with pity.

(03-27-2019 04:20 PM)WillaMary08 Wrote:  I think that is Verbal Commits standard tweet for transfers - nothing to read into.

Yep, Verbal Commits has already wiped all the guys off our roster (where they show our depth). Means nothing.


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(03-27-2019 04:29 PM)TribePride91 Wrote:  But, when this decision was made, there is no other realistic message sent to the players than we don't think you can get this done.

How about this for a realistic message: "We think the coach is holding you back." Regardless of whether that's the case or not, that's a completely reasonable message for the players to receive, and they very well may have gotten that specific message in their meeting with Huge.

I would agree that the post means nothing but Luke liking this post, and by extension the wording "is leaving the program", does mean something. All the potential transfers on their twitter pages have their transfer messages pinned to the top, with the exception of Milon.

(03-27-2019 05:23 PM)GameOfTribes Wrote:  I would agree that the post means nothing but Luke liking this post, and by extension the wording "is leaving the program", does mean something. All the potential transfers on their twitter pages have their transfer messages pinned to the top, with the exception of Milon.

That was my point. Thanks.



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(03-27-2019 05:23 PM)GameOfTribes Wrote:  I would agree that the post means nothing but Luke liking this post, and by extension the wording "is leaving the program", does mean something. All the potential transfers on their twitter pages have their transfer messages pinned to the top, with the exception of Milon.

I think you're overestimating what likes mean for people under 20. "William and Mary Mens basketball" is still in his profile too, but people rarely change their profiles so that's probably also not meaningful.

(03-27-2019 05:20 PM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 04:29 PM)TribePride91 Wrote:  But, when this decision was made, there is no other realistic message sent to the players than we don't think you can get this done.

How about this for a realistic message: "We think the coach is holding you back." Regardless of whether that's the case or not, that's a completely reasonable message for the players to receive, and they very well may have gotten that specific message in their meeting with Huge.

If the W&M AD had walked into the baseball locker room in the late 70’s and told us that “we think the coach is holding you back”, he would have been jeered out of the room. Why? Because the support given by the Administration to the coach was perceived as being non-existent by the players. The players had the coach’s back, and rightfully so.

If Huge gave the same message to this group of basketball players, the response should have been the same- the support given to this coach by the Administration over 16 years was laughable, and she should have been jeered out of the room. No dedicated practice time. Sharing with other teams. Passing the hat for a foreign trip. No summer classes until recently, and largely due to donor initiative. Etc., etc., etc.

On the other hand, if this group didn’t have the coach’s back, kind of shines some light on this situation.

Sorry, that was not a reasonable message for the players to receive. If that message was given, that would take a lot of chutzpah re: this coach and this sport at W&M.