(04-06-2019 09:40 AM)ken d Wrote:  Folks on the internet often refer to Buffalo as the flagship university of the State of New York. What they usually omit is the "de facto" part of that appelation. What they mean is that Buffalo is the oldest and largest part of a system created after World War II. The headquarters of that system is in Albany, not Buffalo. There simply isn't a true "flagship" university in the state, though Cornell was designated as a land grant university long before the concept of a SUNY arose.

UB as part of the BE, B1G or ACC is just pure fantasy - now and always.

The system HQ in Albany is just a function of it being the capital, as is the case in many states. UC's system HQ is Oakland, not even in Berkeley or LA. UB and SBU are truly de facto flagships, being the largest, the most funding, the only AAU's, and having the most political clout. Changes to tuition, funding awards, and allowing companies to operate on campus land, were spearheaded in tandem between UB and SBU. Meanwhile, UAlbany is so weak it could not stop it's Nano college from splitting off on it's own.

'Now and always' is quite far to go. In 1990, if asked, I'd assume you would say the same disbelief that Rutgers would ever join the Big10..Butler would be in the same league as Villanova and Georgetown...South Florida would be a full member of the Big East for a time.

(04-06-2019 01:05 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  The school should just rebrand itself as SUNY Buffalo. It sounds less provincial than University of Buffalo or just Buffalo.

"It's always Sunny in Buffalo," man, that's brilliant, they should grab it before some other city steals it.

(04-09-2019 10:50 PM)RecoveringHillbilly Wrote:  

(04-06-2019 09:40 AM)ken d Wrote:  Folks on the internet often refer to Buffalo as the flagship university of the State of New York. What they usually omit is the "de facto" part of that appelation. What they mean is that Buffalo is the oldest and largest part of a system created after World War II. The headquarters of that system is in Albany, not Buffalo. There simply isn't a true "flagship" university in the state, though Cornell was designated as a land grant university long before the concept of a SUNY arose.

UB as part of the BE, B1G or ACC is just pure fantasy - now and always.

The system HQ in Albany is just a function of it being the capital, as is the case in many states. UC's system HQ is Oakland, not even in Berkeley or LA. UB and SBU are truly de facto flagships, being the largest, the most funding, the only AAU's, and having the most political clout. Changes to tuition, funding awards, and allowing companies to operate on campus land, were spearheaded in tandem between UB and SBU. Meanwhile, UAlbany is so weak it could not stop it's Nano college from splitting off on it's own.

'Now and always' is quite far to go. In 1990, if asked, I'd assume you would say the same disbelief that Rutgers would ever join the Big10..Butler would be in the same league as Villanova and Georgetown...South Florida would be a full member of the Big East for a time.

If you think you have two flagships, then you have no flagships. If you want to redefine "flagship" as being the biggest or best funded, I would prefer using the term "quasi flagship" rather than "de facto flagship".

But this is a sports forum. And no matter what you call Buffalo, the chances of them finding their way into a P5 conference are truly slim to none.

For the P5, the sky is the ceiling.

For Buffalo and the rest of the G5, the ceiling is the sky.

(04-09-2019 10:50 PM)RecoveringHillbilly Wrote:  

(04-06-2019 09:40 AM)ken d Wrote:  Folks on the internet often refer to Buffalo as the flagship university of the State of New York. What they usually omit is the "de facto" part of that appelation. What they mean is that Buffalo is the oldest and largest part of a system created after World War II. The headquarters of that system is in Albany, not Buffalo. There simply isn't a true "flagship" university in the state, though Cornell was designated as a land grant university long before the concept of a SUNY arose.

UB as part of the BE, B1G or ACC is just pure fantasy - now and always.

The system HQ in Albany is just a function of it being the capital, as is the case in many states. UC's system HQ is Oakland, not even in Berkeley or LA. UB and SBU are truly de facto flagships, being the largest, the most funding, the only AAU's, and having the most political clout. Changes to tuition, funding awards, and allowing companies to operate on campus land, were spearheaded in tandem between UB and SBU. Meanwhile, UAlbany is so weak it could not stop it's Nano college from splitting off on it's own.

'Now and always' is quite far to go. In 1990, if asked, I'd assume you would say the same disbelief that Rutgers would ever join the Big10..Butler would be in the same league as Villanova and Georgetown...South Florida would be a full member of the Big East for a time.

Rutgers is probably the only one I would have believed. There was talk about the Big Ten back then because of Penn State. Rutgers could have played major games in Giants Stadium (which they were already doing).

UB's only hope for P5 status is if the Bill's left town. They are in their correct level of league at the moment.

Even if the Bills left I really think the AAC might be their ceiling until they improve facilities and attendance.

(04-12-2019 08:15 AM)ken d Wrote:  If you think you have two flagships, then you have no flagships. If you want to redefine "flagship" as being the biggest or best funded, I would prefer using the term "quasi flagship" rather than "de facto flagship".

Or "leading public university" ...
... as the Flagship university in New York is really Columbia, while the Land Grant university is Cornell (which has this confederation of colleges structure where a college can be private or public, in order to be able to get land grant funding for Cornell's college of agriculture even though there are colleges in Cornell that refuse to go public).

Flagship University is not just about status of the University, it's about the RANGE of programs that are high status in their field, so if we don't add a "public" qualifier, Harvard is the Flagship University of Massachusetts, but Tulane is not the Flagship University of Louisiana despite having some specific departments that would outrank LSU.

(04-12-2019 10:11 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-09-2019 10:50 PM)RecoveringHillbilly Wrote:  

(04-06-2019 09:40 AM)ken d Wrote:  Folks on the internet often refer to Buffalo as the flagship university of the State of New York. What they usually omit is the "de facto" part of that appelation. What they mean is that Buffalo is the oldest and largest part of a system created after World War II. The headquarters of that system is in Albany, not Buffalo. There simply isn't a true "flagship" university in the state, though Cornell was designated as a land grant university long before the concept of a SUNY arose.

UB as part of the BE, B1G or ACC is just pure fantasy - now and always.

The system HQ in Albany is just a function of it being the capital, as is the case in many states. UC's system HQ is Oakland, not even in Berkeley or LA. UB and SBU are truly de facto flagships, being the largest, the most funding, the only AAU's, and having the most political clout. Changes to tuition, funding awards, and allowing companies to operate on campus land, were spearheaded in tandem between UB and SBU. Meanwhile, UAlbany is so weak it could not stop it's Nano college from splitting off on it's own.

'Now and always' is quite far to go. In 1990, if asked, I'd assume you would say the same disbelief that Rutgers would ever join the Big10..Butler would be in the same league as Villanova and Georgetown...South Florida would be a full member of the Big East for a time.

Rutgers is probably the only one I would have believed. There was talk about the Big Ten back then because of Penn State. Rutgers could have played major games in Giants Stadium (which they were already doing).

Here is an article from 1993 about Rutgers to the Big Ten
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-x...story.html

I think I saw one from 1992 somewhere.

(04-12-2019 09:23 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  For the P5, the sky is the ceiling.

For Buffalo and the rest of the G5, the ceiling is the sky.

Are you saying P5 and G5 are the same?

(04-13-2019 10:23 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(04-12-2019 09:23 AM)Z-Fly Wrote:  For the P5, the sky is the ceiling.

For Buffalo and the rest of the G5, the ceiling is the sky.

Are you saying P5 and G5 are the same?

We are all the same in the eyes of the creator.

UB delivered some pretty good local TV ratings this year.

I think a wildcard for them could be if the Bills / Sabres owner Terry Pegula ever gave them a nice donation. It probably wouldn't happen but he's put hundreds of millions into developments in downtown Buffalo. I wish he'd cut a nice check so we could sign good coaches (definitely wishful thinking though).

Their ratings rapidly drop off outside the Buffalo TV market. Syracuse is the ratings draw in the rest of Upstate and it goes without saying they blowout UB over the rest of the country.

(04-14-2019 10:32 AM)SUisBigEast4ever Wrote:  UB delivered some pretty good local TV ratings this year.

I think a wildcard for them could be if the Bills / Sabres owner Terry Pegula ever gave them a nice donation. It probably wouldn't happen but he's put hundreds of millions into developments in downtown Buffalo. I wish he'd cut a nice check so we could sign good coaches (definitely wishful thinking though).

No chance. He's a Penn State alum and his wife is from Rochester, not Buffalo.

(04-14-2019 11:40 AM)whittx Wrote:  No chance. He's a Penn State alum and his wife is from Rochester, not Buffalo.

She still considers Buffalo just as much her home. It doesn't mean they'd ever financially help UB but you never know.