The unofficial online home for fans of the University of Cincinnati Bearcats. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(03-25-2019 12:11 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 09:29 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 06:51 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 06:32 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  If all we ever do is win a mid major conference and lose our March opener, people will just say, "see, if they played in a real conference they wouldn't even be in the tourney".

Didn't the 3rd best team in our conference just lose by 1 to Duke in a nail-biter (and I'm not even bringing up the officiating)? I get that it's a loss, but we'll see how the teams from "real" conferences do against them the rest of the way (we've seen how they've done against them so far when Duke is healthy). Point is it's all just spin.

C'mon #1, "people" are always going to say something negative in this anonymous online world. Is "haters gonna hate" still a saying? Win too much and they're just going to say you're cheating

Maybe I'm using too much anecdotal evidence for my theory....but I know a ton of people that think our conference is mid major and so winning it and then flaming out in March only reinforces their notion.

Either way, if we want to get to Gonzaga's level, we have to do something in March. They have the respect they do, not because they win that crap conference but because they beat the big boys OOC and esp in March.

If we want to get to Gonazaga's level we have to do something in March. And then do it again, and again.

We can't even get through the front door.

this...so much this

(03-24-2019 09:29 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 06:51 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 06:32 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  If all we ever do is win a mid major conference and lose our March opener, people will just say, "see, if they played in a real conference they wouldn't even be in the tourney".

Didn't the 3rd best team in our conference just lose by 1 to Duke in a nail-biter (and I'm not even bringing up the officiating)? I get that it's a loss, but we'll see how the teams from "real" conferences do against them the rest of the way (we've seen how they've done against them so far when Duke is healthy). Point is it's all just spin.

C'mon #1, "people" are always going to say something negative in this anonymous online world. Is "haters gonna hate" still a saying? Win too much and they're just going to say you're cheating

Maybe I'm using too much anecdotal evidence for my theory....but I know a ton of people that think our conference is mid major and so winning it and then flaming out in March only reinforces their notion.

Either way, if we want to get to Gonzaga's level, we have to do something in March. They have the respect they do, not because they win that crap conference but because they beat the big boys OOC and esp in March.

Help me understand how national respect (or the lack of it) re: one's favorite team effects one's life?

My assumption - and I could be wrong on this - is that one must be very shallow to tie one's self esteem to the activities of 18-22 year olds playing a game.

(03-27-2019 11:59 AM)QSECOFR Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 09:29 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 06:51 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 06:32 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  If all we ever do is win a mid major conference and lose our March opener, people will just say, "see, if they played in a real conference they wouldn't even be in the tourney".

Didn't the 3rd best team in our conference just lose by 1 to Duke in a nail-biter (and I'm not even bringing up the officiating)? I get that it's a loss, but we'll see how the teams from "real" conferences do against them the rest of the way (we've seen how they've done against them so far when Duke is healthy). Point is it's all just spin.

C'mon #1, "people" are always going to say something negative in this anonymous online world. Is "haters gonna hate" still a saying? Win too much and they're just going to say you're cheating

Maybe I'm using too much anecdotal evidence for my theory....but I know a ton of people that think our conference is mid major and so winning it and then flaming out in March only reinforces their notion.

Either way, if we want to get to Gonzaga's level, we have to do something in March. They have the respect they do, not because they win that crap conference but because they beat the big boys OOC and esp in March.

Help me understand how national respect (or the lack of it) re: one's favorite team effects one's life?

My assumption - and I could be wrong on this - is that one must be very shallow to tie one's self esteem to the activities of 18-22 year olds playing a game.

huh?

Where did I say this was my life?

We are discussing the merit of national reputation vs march runs vs regular season only success.

(03-27-2019 12:18 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 11:59 AM)QSECOFR Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 09:29 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 06:51 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 06:32 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  If all we ever do is win a mid major conference and lose our March opener, people will just say, "see, if they played in a real conference they wouldn't even be in the tourney".

Didn't the 3rd best team in our conference just lose by 1 to Duke in a nail-biter (and I'm not even bringing up the officiating)? I get that it's a loss, but we'll see how the teams from "real" conferences do against them the rest of the way (we've seen how they've done against them so far when Duke is healthy). Point is it's all just spin.

C'mon #1, "people" are always going to say something negative in this anonymous online world. Is "haters gonna hate" still a saying? Win too much and they're just going to say you're cheating

Maybe I'm using too much anecdotal evidence for my theory....but I know a ton of people that think our conference is mid major and so winning it and then flaming out in March only reinforces their notion.

Either way, if we want to get to Gonzaga's level, we have to do something in March. They have the respect they do, not because they win that crap conference but because they beat the big boys OOC and esp in March.

Help me understand how national respect (or the lack of it) re: one's favorite team effects one's life?

My assumption - and I could be wrong on this - is that one must be very shallow to tie one's self esteem to the activities of 18-22 year olds playing a game.

huh?

Where did I say this was my life?

We are discussing the merit of national reputation vs march runs vs regular season only success.

You said you want national respect for the team you root for. Do you really care what others think? I could see it if you were a member of the team. As a fan?

(03-27-2019 12:34 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 12:18 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 11:59 AM)QSECOFR Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 09:29 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 06:51 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  Didn't the 3rd best team in our conference just lose by 1 to Duke in a nail-biter (and I'm not even bringing up the officiating)? I get that it's a loss, but we'll see how the teams from "real" conferences do against them the rest of the way (we've seen how they've done against them so far when Duke is healthy). Point is it's all just spin.

C'mon #1, "people" are always going to say something negative in this anonymous online world. Is "haters gonna hate" still a saying? Win too much and they're just going to say you're cheating

Maybe I'm using too much anecdotal evidence for my theory....but I know a ton of people that think our conference is mid major and so winning it and then flaming out in March only reinforces their notion.

Either way, if we want to get to Gonzaga's level, we have to do something in March. They have the respect they do, not because they win that crap conference but because they beat the big boys OOC and esp in March.

Help me understand how national respect (or the lack of it) re: one's favorite team effects one's life?

My assumption - and I could be wrong on this - is that one must be very shallow to tie one's self esteem to the activities of 18-22 year olds playing a game.

huh?

Where did I say this was my life?

We are discussing the merit of national reputation vs march runs vs regular season only success.

You said you want national respect for the team you root for. Do you really care what others think? I could see it if you were a member of the team. As a fan?

The national respect comment is true but its more geared towards the program, not me. IE, pre season rankings, which fuel recruiting, recruiting signings, etc. Things that would also possible fuel UC getting a seat at the big boy table, etc.

The national respect for UC is for everything. I want to see the school keep climbing in the US News and World rankings, AAU membership would be great. All tie in with national respect for our alma mater.

(03-27-2019 01:12 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 12:34 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 12:18 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 11:59 AM)QSECOFR Wrote:  

(03-24-2019 09:29 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Maybe I'm using too much anecdotal evidence for my theory....but I know a ton of people that think our conference is mid major and so winning it and then flaming out in March only reinforces their notion.

Either way, if we want to get to Gonzaga's level, we have to do something in March. They have the respect they do, not because they win that crap conference but because they beat the big boys OOC and esp in March.

Help me understand how national respect (or the lack of it) re: one's favorite team effects one's life?

My assumption - and I could be wrong on this - is that one must be very shallow to tie one's self esteem to the activities of 18-22 year olds playing a game.

huh?

Where did I say this was my life?

We are discussing the merit of national reputation vs march runs vs regular season only success.

You said you want national respect for the team you root for. Do you really care what others think? I could see it if you were a member of the team. As a fan?

The national respect comment is true but its more geared towards the program, not me. IE, pre season rankings, which fuel recruiting, recruiting signings, etc. Things that would also possible fuel UC getting a seat at the big boy table, etc.

The national respect for UC is for everything. I want to see the school keep climbing in the US News and World rankings, AAU membership would be great. All tie in with national respect for our alma mater.

LOL, you don't believe this sh!t, you want them to hire Pitino for godsakes.

(03-27-2019 02:24 PM)levydl Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 01:12 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 12:34 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 12:18 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 11:59 AM)QSECOFR Wrote:  Help me understand how national respect (or the lack of it) re: one's favorite team effects one's life?

My assumption - and I could be wrong on this - is that one must be very shallow to tie one's self esteem to the activities of 18-22 year olds playing a game.

huh?

Where did I say this was my life?

We are discussing the merit of national reputation vs march runs vs regular season only success.

You said you want national respect for the team you root for. Do you really care what others think? I could see it if you were a member of the team. As a fan?

The national respect comment is true but its more geared towards the program, not me. IE, pre season rankings, which fuel recruiting, recruiting signings, etc. Things that would also possible fuel UC getting a seat at the big boy table, etc.

The national respect for UC is for everything. I want to see the school keep climbing in the US News and World rankings, AAU membership would be great. All tie in with national respect for our alma mater.

LOL, you don't believe this sh!t, you want them to hire Pitino for godsakes.

lol I DO believe it!

(03-27-2019 02:24 PM)levydl Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 01:12 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 12:34 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 12:18 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(03-27-2019 11:59 AM)QSECOFR Wrote:  Help me understand how national respect (or the lack of it) re: one's favorite team effects one's life?

My assumption - and I could be wrong on this - is that one must be very shallow to tie one's self esteem to the activities of 18-22 year olds playing a game.

huh?

Where did I say this was my life?

We are discussing the merit of national reputation vs march runs vs regular season only success.

You said you want national respect for the team you root for. Do you really care what others think? I could see it if you were a member of the team. As a fan?

The national respect comment is true but its more geared towards the program, not me. IE, pre season rankings, which fuel recruiting, recruiting signings, etc. Things that would also possible fuel UC getting a seat at the big boy table, etc.

The national respect for UC is for everything. I want to see the school keep climbing in the US News and World rankings, AAU membership would be great. All tie in with national respect for our alma mater.

LOL, you don't believe this sh!t, you want them to hire Pitino for godsakes.

It all depends on what you want respect for. For a University, it's top flight research, cutting edge medical facilities, a solid law and engineering program, growing enrollment, and job placement along with significant achievements by alumni.

For an AD....it's one thing...winning.

If you don't want to invest in creating a winning program, then revenue sports will suffer, and it will be a drag on the AD budget and the University general fund as well.

What gets conflated is the idea that a deficiency in one impacts the quality of the other. Scandals at DI AD's generally have zero impact on the academic side of the University in terms of quality.

A losing program in the AD will impact the budget if it is a revenue sport because of the increased need for support from the general fund requiring a tuition increase. The bottom line, however, is that students enroll in a University for the quality of the program in their field of interest and not the profile of the AD....save for the student athletes.

“A losing program in the AD will impact the budget if it is a revenue sport because of the increased need for support from the general fund requiring a tuition increase. The bottom line, however, is that students enroll in a University for the quality of the program in their field of interest and not the profile of the AD....save for the student athletes.”

Wrong. Many factors drive the selection decision. Our athletics raise the profile of our university and make it a more attractive destination. Record enrollment trends prove this.

(03-28-2019 07:28 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  “A losing program in the AD will impact the budget if it is a revenue sport because of the increased need for support from the general fund requiring a tuition increase. The bottom line, however, is that students enroll in a University for the quality of the program in their field of interest and not the profile of the AD....save for the student athletes.”

Wrong. Many factors drive the selection decision. Our athletics raise the profile of our university and make it a more attractive destination. Record enrollment trends prove this.

Could you show and explain this proof? How do you isolate athletics from all the other factors that go into enrollment? I'm genuinely interested in the data and the proof. Thanks.

(03-28-2019 07:45 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 07:28 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  “A losing program in the AD will impact the budget if it is a revenue sport because of the increased need for support from the general fund requiring a tuition increase. The bottom line, however, is that students enroll in a University for the quality of the program in their field of interest and not the profile of the AD....save for the student athletes.”

Wrong. Many factors drive the selection decision. Our athletics raise the profile of our university and make it a more attractive destination. Record enrollment trends prove this.

Could you show and explain this proof? How do you isolate athletics from all the other factors that go into enrollment? I'm genuinely interested in the data and the proof. Thanks.

Winning at sports actually does increase application, enrollment, donations, and licensed apparel sales. I think remember this being discussed at a few higher ed events I attended as well the IP conference from a few years back.

Basically a college or university needs really good academics or sports, preferably both to drive enrollment and donations.

Schools that have neither are in a difficult spot.

(03-28-2019 07:53 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Basically a college or university needs really good academics or sports, preferably both to drive enrollment and donations.

Schools that have neither are in a difficult spot.

Schools that have neither, in Ohio such as Wright State and Akron.

(03-28-2019 07:53 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 07:45 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 07:28 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  “A losing program in the AD will impact the budget if it is a revenue sport because of the increased need for support from the general fund requiring a tuition increase. The bottom line, however, is that students enroll in a University for the quality of the program in their field of interest and not the profile of the AD....save for the student athletes.”

Wrong. Many factors drive the selection decision. Our athletics raise the profile of our university and make it a more attractive destination. Record enrollment trends prove this.

Could you show and explain this proof? How do you isolate athletics from all the other factors that go into enrollment? I'm genuinely interested in the data and the proof. Thanks.

Winning at sports actually does increase application, enrollment, donations, and licensed apparel sales. I think remember this being discussed at a few higher ed events I attended as well the IP conference from a few years back.

Basically a college or university needs really good academics or sports, preferably both to drive enrollment and donations.

Schools that have neither are in a difficult spot.

I'm not saying it's false. I was just curious to see actual data. The post I was responding to first says many factors drive the selection decision, then seems to claim that rising enrollment proves it is athletically driven. I'm not sure how to reconcile those.

Google “The Flutie Effect”. There’s been actual studies on this.

Quality athletics improves campus life. It brings alumni back on campus. As Bruce mentioned, drive up to Fairborn and check out Wright State’s campus. It is what they call a suitcase campus- kids pack up and go back to their hometown on the weekends. If they are on campus they are in their dorm rooms watching the OSU game on TV. Alumni have no reason to come back to campus.

When kids go on campus visits and see the atmosphere here vs schools with a vibrant sports culture the choice is not that difficult.

Anecdotally, a good friend was on a tour at Butler this past weekend, and he was telling me how the dean of admissions (or whoever I don't remember) was speaking very candidly about the spike in applications when they started making runs with Matta and Lickliter. It was reinforced with an explosion of applications and enrollment after the back to back finals appearances. They acknowledge the impact, and it influences how much attention and funding the AD gets.

(03-22-2019 05:59 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  I’ll ride or die with whoever decides to wear the red and black but good god we should be better than 40-100 ranked classes

Most top 10 recruiting classes usually don't have a great graduation rate. Still wonders if UK gives 4 year degrees to their one and dones because you never hear of them being penalized of a dismal graduation rate. Makes one wonder, doesn't it?

(03-29-2019 05:21 AM)Teakwood Wrote:  Anecdotally, a good friend was on a tour at Butler this past weekend, and he was telling me how the dean of admissions (or whoever I don't remember) was speaking very candidly about the spike in applications when they started making runs with Matta and Lickliter. It was reinforced with an explosion of applications and enrollment after the back to back finals appearances. They acknowledge the impact, and it influences how much attention and funding the AD gets.

We took a tour of Duke with our daughter about 7 years ago. The video they showed us started with a Duke basketball player making all kinds of trick shots. Every restroom (and I mean EVERY) had a magazine with Coach K on the cover inside, and the tour guides all talked about how they time their study abroad, or their internships, to make sure they were on campus for basketball season.

Duke certainly thinks their basketball program makes the institution more attractive. (In contrast, my daughter was interested in the band, and the tour guide did not know if Duke had one, and did not know where the football stadium was when we asked her. Turns out it is behind Cameron Indoor, but we never saw it during our visit.)

(03-22-2019 06:33 PM)jarr Wrote:  $100 million arena renovation. To win games, especially in March.

follow diligently and they will come.

(03-28-2019 07:56 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  

(03-28-2019 07:53 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Basically a college or university needs really good academics or sports, preferably both to drive enrollment and donations.

Schools that have neither are in a difficult spot.

Schools that have neither, in Ohio such as Wright State and Akron.

I worked with a number of Akron engineers. They co-op like we do - and are hence solid practical professionals.

(03-28-2019 07:28 PM)Bcatbog Wrote:  “A losing program in the AD will impact the budget if it is a revenue sport because of the increased need for support from the general fund requiring a tuition increase. The bottom line, however, is that students enroll in a University for the quality of the program in their field of interest and not the profile of the AD....save for the student athletes.”

Wrong. Many factors drive the selection decision. Our athletics raise the profile of our university and make it a more attractive destination. Record enrollment trends prove this.

Wait...is that why the cream of the crop in engineering go to MIT? Because of their vibrant AD?

Is that why Harvard Law pulls in the top candidates in their profession...their thriving AD?

Yale?
Penn?
Columbia?

How about UCal Berkley?
UCSF?
NYU?
Northwestern?
Emory?
Carnagie Mellon?
California Institute of Technology?
Cornell?

Johns Hopkins?
Case Western?
Juilliard?

Correct me if I'm wrong...but I think those institutions draw because of the quality of their academic offerings and not their vibrant AD....

You can find schools with both...but the ultimate pick comes down to who has the top academic program for that student's career track....Not the W-L record for MBB or FB.