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Niu baskerball and ncaa
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OldTtimeNIU Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
03-23-2019 08:12 PM
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dc1 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
Top shelf, you actually forgot to add Nick Wagner to that list. He red shirted two years ago as a freshman than left the program.
03-23-2019 09:26 PM
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uiniu57 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
(03-23-2019 04:16 PM)BDB5yp Wrote:  At some point we have to stop bringing up Ricardo Patton. Montgomery came off his best coaching year. He’s trending in the right direction. Guys wanting to leave and transfer programs is as big of an issue to college basketball as one and dones. Everyone loses people. Duke, Kentucky, UNC will have to replace there entire starting lineup next season. Mid majors get hit with the transfers. Same problem at a different level. Nader was our biggest loss since he moved on to the NBA, but it’s part of the game now. Maybe we can replace these guys with hungry juco guys.

How can so many of you accept mediocrity?
IF this was Montgomery's "best coaching year" then NIU is doomed to never make even the MAC championship let alone a post-season tournament.
IF it takes eight years to be "trending in the right direction" then when -- IF EVER -- can Huskie fans anticipate being good enough to go into the season as a true title contender and then either fall just short or actually win.
While some on this board are no longer content with winning seasons in football IF they don't include a MAC title or a bowl victory, then why are there some so willing to just shrug at NIU's basketball inadequacy?

In another thread there was a supposed ranking of MAC basketball programs to "determine the best JOBS in each league, all the way down to the ones that are most difficult."
Understand the need for anonymity but when it says they "polled a handful of veteran coaches" how many is that? Four of 12, six, seven, etc. of the MAC. How objective are some of them since they likely believe and took their job in the MAC thinking it was a good opportunity. Debated in another thread is whether Monty fully understood the challenges he undertook coming to DeKalb.

Even the categories are open to debate based on perspective. Tradition, meaning the history of the program. Buffalo has barely been in the league and it ranked 11th. Certainly hasn't stood in their way for a few years now. Miami and Ohio were ranked 1-2 in this category, which of those two were in the 2019 semifinals?
Media exposure had NIU ranked 12th. When Hammel's team made the NCAA tourney the Chicago papers and TV were all over us in coverage. As someone working in media for decades don't even challenge this before you ask Mike Korcek or his staff for the multitude of clips from the Tribune, Sun-Times, Daily Herald, Rockford Register-Star, Daily Southtown, etc. IF -- yes it's now a huge IF -- NIU made the NCAA hoops tourney the Huskies would get treatment similar to Bradley, hopefully minus the embarrassment of the poor PR the Braves got.
Akron is ranked 1 and Kent State is 2 -- why because they're close to Cleveland? How many people even know the name of the paper in Akron?
Game atmosphere had NIU ranked 11th. No argument, actually surprised we weren't 12th considering the lack of attendance and the obnoxious DJ.
Recruiting base had NIU's best ranking of fourth. The only argument there is why not higher since as pointed out in another thread, virtually every MAC team has players from Illinois. The cream of the P5s, the middle of the P5s, the bottom of the P5s, every mid-major recruits Chicago. The best recruiting bases were supposedly Toledo and Muncie. One of UT's go-to players was from Geneva and BSU had zero hometown kids.
Selling Pros was another category and NIU was ranked 12th. Ohio and Akron were 1 and 2. Utter B.S. There isn't a single recruit in the MAC who chose his school based on thinking it's a pipeline to the NBA. The Ron Harpers, Dan Majerles and Bonzi Wells are exceptions to the rule. IF you're a standout actually expecting to play NBA, you're being recruited by someone well above the MAC.
Buy Games was supposedly based on "programs who are bought the fewest number of times will rank first." Since NIU was ranked 12th shouldn't that mean every one of our road games was worth tons of money. Unlike football, I doubt NIU basketball gets far more than the transportation (plane or bus) and hotel costs (rooms and meals).
The only two truly relevant categories were: most importantly budget/resources, plus facilities. NIU's second-best rating was fifth for facilities with some MAC assistant coach commenting "quality practice facility and decent arena." Without knowing if a Freedom of Information Act was used, another MAC assistant said of NIU "general apathy towards basketball from both the administration and also the fan base, and bottom of the league resources." Not going to debate the resources but the general apathy, just like game atmosphere and media exposure were all sunk to the bottom of the well by the now needing to be nameless individual with the first name Ricardo.

Bradley's coach was hired in May 2015 for the 2015-16 season -- not 2011-12 -- and they made the NCAA in 2018-19. Mark Huger was hired the same season as Bradley coach and Bowling Green was a step closer to a MAC title than NIU. Ohio hired Saul Phillips the season before (2014-15) and he just got let go. Apparently the OU AD had a short list in mind because they immediately got a replacement. That is an answer to someone's question in a previous thread about the chances of getting an upgrade --- that all depends on the AD.
IF -- and again this is a huge IF at NIU -- the AD is any good, they'll have a short list in mind in case of either success leading to someone being hired away or in case mediocrity isn't to be tolerated with unnecessary extensions.

Sorry to be redundant, but that's inherent in defining mediocrity.
Every single significant measure of Monty's record minus home games which include Carthage, Rockford, Aurora, Judson, St. Joseph's IN, Eureka, IU Northwest, Chicago State, Olivet Nazarene, UI Springfield, St. Francis IL, and Illinois Tech, -- overall, conference, away, neutral, MAC post-season -- is under .500.

Monty's eight-season records are as follows:
Overall: 105-150 (.412)
MAC regular season: 51-89 (.364)
MAC Post-season: 2-4 (.333)


2011-12 / NIU 5-26 ---- h 4-11 / a 1-14 / n 0-1
MAC 3-13 ---- h 3-5 / a 0-8
2012-13 / NIU 5-25 ---- h 3-11 / a 2-14
MAC 3-13 ---- h 1-7 / a 2-6
2013-14 / NIU 15-17---- h 10-7 / a 5-9 / n 0-1
MAC 8-10 ---- h 5-4 / a 3-6
2014-15 / NIU 14-16 ---- h 10-5 / a 4-11
MAC 8-10 ---- h 4-5 / a 4-5
2015-16 / NIU 21-13 ---- h 17-1 / a 3-10 / n 0-2 ****
MAC 9-9 ---- h 8-1 / a 1-8
2016-17 / NIU 15-17 --- h 9-8 / a 6-9
MAC 7-11 --- h 3-6 / a 4-5
2017-18 / NIU 13-19 --- h 11-4 / a 1-13 / n 1-2
MAC 6-12 --- h 6-3 / 0-9
2018-19/ NIU 17-17 --- h 10-6 / a 5-9 / n 2-2
MAC 7-11 --- h 4-5 / a 3-6

Overall / 105-150 (.412) h 75-53 / a 27-89 / n 3-8
MAC 51-89 (.364) --- h 34-36 / a 17-53

**** -- Indicates the single worst schedule in NIU men's basketball history. Monty's one shining year began with the team 16-3 overall and 5-1 in the MAC during the first 19 games. The last 12 of that season saw NIU 4-8 overall and 4-8 in MAC play.
03-23-2019 09:47 PM
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chihuskie Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
Great post uiniu57.

If you see good teams that I think we should be able to legitimately say are at our level in terms of facilities, recruiting area, etc, and you see how far ahead they are -- it is surprising. The huskies finished the year with a couple or three pretty good games. Playing 3-4 good games in a season-- or in other words- playing up to expectations 3-4 times in a season is underperforming in my book. And I would always compare myself to the better teams-- not the mediocre or bad teams. So, I think looking at teams in the tourney and drawing comparisons is exactly want we want to be doing. I don't want to be like a 7th place MAC or even Big ten team. I want to be like any one of the teams I previously mentioned. And the question is, why shouldn't that be the goal? And if it is the goal, then what are the consequences of not meeting or coming close for the 8th? year in a row?
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2019 02:14 PM by chihuskie.)
03-23-2019 10:06 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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Post: #25
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
We draw <1k people to games. It is a herculean task to sell the program to recruits when fan support isn’t there (Coach K’s final year at Army was 9-17). It is also incredibly difficult to attract good candidates. Bradley draws 5700 and Ohio 5600. http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...ndance.pdf

Here are the programs between 700-1300:
Alabama State 1296
Canisius 1280
SIU-Edwardsville 1268
Appalachian St 1268
FIU 1267
North Carolina Central 1263
Army 1253
SEMO 1251
Longwood 1248
Abilene Christian 1246
Detroit Mercy 1240
Loyola Maramount 1238
Marist 1224
EIU 1216
UMKC 1210
Alabama A&M 1209
Denver 1204
FAU 1188
High Point 1181
Northwestern St 1180
Samford 1159
Pepperdine 1156
Maryland-Baltimore County 1155
Niagara 1148
Coppin St 1146
Kennesaw 1146
San Antonio 1146
Northeastern 1142
Southern 1124
UMass Lowell 1119
Gardner-Webb 1110
Incarnate Word 1095
Manhattan 1094
Lehigh 1076
IUPUI 1056
Maine 1028
NIU 998
Drexel 989
Long Island-Brooklyn 989
Sam Houston State 944
Saint Francis PA 930
Brown 882
Dartmouth 868
New Orleans 863
Rio Grande Valley 845
SELA 837
Jacksonville 810
McNeese 793
Bethune-Cookman 776
Northridge 768
Robert Morris 765
American 761
Citadel 757
NJIT 756
Loyola Maryland 700


Teams with a better NET than NIU? 1 (Northeastern)

Teams with a top 25 win? 1 (NIU)
03-23-2019 11:41 PM
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BDB5yp Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
(03-23-2019 09:47 PM)uiniu57 Wrote:  
(03-23-2019 04:16 PM)BDB5yp Wrote:  At some point we have to stop bringing up Ricardo Patton. Montgomery came off his best coaching year. He’s trending in the right direction. Guys wanting to leave and transfer programs is as big of an issue to college basketball as one and dones. Everyone loses people. Duke, Kentucky, UNC will have to replace there entire starting lineup next season. Mid majors get hit with the transfers. Same problem at a different level. Nader was our biggest loss since he moved on to the NBA, but it’s part of the game now. Maybe we can replace these guys with hungry juco guys.

How can so many of you accept mediocrity?
IF this was Montgomery's "best coaching year" then NIU is doomed to never make even the MAC championship let alone a post-season tournament.
IF it takes eight years to be "trending in the right direction" then when -- IF EVER -- can Huskie fans anticipate being good enough to go into the season as a true title contender and then either fall just short or actually win.
While some on this board are no longer content with winning seasons in football IF they don't include a MAC title or a bowl victory, then why are there some so willing to just shrug at NIU's basketball inadequacy?

In another thread there was a supposed ranking of MAC basketball programs to "determine the best JOBS in each league, all the way down to the ones that are most difficult."
Understand the need for anonymity but when it says they "polled a handful of veteran coaches" how many is that? Four of 12, six, seven, etc. of the MAC. How objective are some of them since they likely believe and took their job in the MAC thinking it was a good opportunity. Debated in another thread is whether Monty fully understood the challenges he undertook coming to DeKalb.

Even the categories are open to debate based on perspective. Tradition, meaning the history of the program. Buffalo has barely been in the league and it ranked 11th. Certainly hasn't stood in their way for a few years now. Miami and Ohio were ranked 1-2 in this category, which of those two were in the 2019 semifinals?
Media exposure had NIU ranked 12th. When Hammel's team made the NCAA tourney the Chicago papers and TV were all over us in coverage. As someone working in media for decades don't even challenge this before you ask Mike Korcek or his staff for the multitude of clips from the Tribune, Sun-Times, Daily Herald, Rockford Register-Star, Daily Southtown, etc. IF -- yes it's now a huge IF -- NIU made the NCAA hoops tourney the Huskies would get treatment similar to Bradley, hopefully minus the embarrassment of the poor PR the Braves got.
Akron is ranked 1 and Kent State is 2 -- why because they're close to Cleveland? How many people even know the name of the paper in Akron?
Game atmosphere had NIU ranked 11th. No argument, actually surprised we weren't 12th considering the lack of attendance and the obnoxious DJ.
Recruiting base had NIU's best ranking of fourth. The only argument there is why not higher since as pointed out in another thread, virtually every MAC team has players from Illinois. The cream of the P5s, the middle of the P5s, the bottom of the P5s, every mid-major recruits Chicago. The best recruiting bases were supposedly Toledo and Muncie. One of UT's go-to players was from Geneva and BSU had zero hometown kids.
Selling Pros was another category and NIU was ranked 12th. Ohio and Akron were 1 and 2. Utter B.S. There isn't a single recruit in the MAC who chose his school based on thinking it's a pipeline to the NBA. The Ron Harpers, Dan Majerles and Bonzi Wells are exceptions to the rule. IF you're a standout actually expecting to play NBA, you're being recruited by someone well above the MAC.
Buy Games was supposedly based on "programs who are bought the fewest number of times will rank first." Since NIU was ranked 12th shouldn't that mean every one of our road games was worth tons of money. Unlike football, I doubt NIU basketball gets far more than the transportation (plane or bus) and hotel costs (rooms and meals).
The only two truly relevant categories were: most importantly budget/resources, plus facilities. NIU's second-best rating was fifth for facilities with some MAC assistant coach commenting "quality practice facility and decent arena." Without knowing if a Freedom of Information Act was used, another MAC assistant said of NIU "general apathy towards basketball from both the administration and also the fan base, and bottom of the league resources." Not going to debate the resources but the general apathy, just like game atmosphere and media exposure were all sunk to the bottom of the well by the now needing to be nameless individual with the first name Ricardo.

Bradley's coach was hired in May 2015 for the 2015-16 season -- not 2011-12 -- and they made the NCAA in 2018-19. Mark Huger was hired the same season as Bradley coach and Bowling Green was a step closer to a MAC title than NIU. Ohio hired Saul Phillips the season before (2014-15) and he just got let go. Apparently the OU AD had a short list in mind because they immediately got a replacement. That is an answer to someone's question in a previous thread about the chances of getting an upgrade --- that all depends on the AD.
IF -- and again this is a huge IF at NIU -- the AD is any good, they'll have a short list in mind in case of either success leading to someone being hired away or in case mediocrity isn't to be tolerated with unnecessary extensions.

Sorry to be redundant, but that's inherent in defining mediocrity.
Every single significant measure of Monty's record minus home games which include Carthage, Rockford, Aurora, Judson, St. Joseph's IN, Eureka, IU Northwest, Chicago State, Olivet Nazarene, UI Springfield, St. Francis IL, and Illinois Tech, -- overall, conference, away, neutral, MAC post-season -- is under .500.

Monty's eight-season records are as follows:
Overall: 105-150 (.412)
MAC regular season: 51-89 (.364)
MAC Post-season: 2-4 (.333)


2011-12 / NIU 5-26 ---- h 4-11 / a 1-14 / n 0-1
MAC 3-13 ---- h 3-5 / a 0-8
2012-13 / NIU 5-25 ---- h 3-11 / a 2-14
MAC 3-13 ---- h 1-7 / a 2-6
2013-14 / NIU 15-17---- h 10-7 / a 5-9 / n 0-1
MAC 8-10 ---- h 5-4 / a 3-6
2014-15 / NIU 14-16 ---- h 10-5 / a 4-11
MAC 8-10 ---- h 4-5 / a 4-5
2015-16 / NIU 21-13 ---- h 17-1 / a 3-10 / n 0-2 ****
MAC 9-9 ---- h 8-1 / a 1-8
2016-17 / NIU 15-17 --- h 9-8 / a 6-9
MAC 7-11 --- h 3-6 / a 4-5
2017-18 / NIU 13-19 --- h 11-4 / a 1-13 / n 1-2
MAC 6-12 --- h 6-3 / 0-9
2018-19/ NIU 17-17 --- h 10-6 / a 5-9 / n 2-2
MAC 7-11 --- h 4-5 / a 3-6

Overall / 105-150 (.412) h 75-53 / a 27-89 / n 3-8
MAC 51-89 (.364) --- h 34-36 / a 17-53

**** -- Indicates the single worst schedule in NIU men's basketball history. Monty's one shining year began with the team 16-3 overall and 5-1 in the MAC during the first 19 games. The last 12 of that season saw NIU 4-8 overall and 4-8 in MAC play.

I didn’t read your whole post...... Finding a decent basketball coach is way harder than finding a good football coach. There isn’t a Coach Hammock version of basketball for our Huskies. What I’m getting at though is that people keep bringing up Patton. Patton didn’t lose talent. Montgomery does. It’s not just Montgomery though..... This is a nationwide issue. So does firing him fix the basketball program that’s been broken for decades? We were two games shy of playing Arizona State on the big stage. We’ve seen way worst guys. So how do we make changes without losing all the ground we’ve made up....?
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2019 12:10 AM by BDB5yp.)
03-24-2019 12:10 AM
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uiniu57 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
(03-24-2019 12:10 AM)BDB5yp Wrote:  I didn’t read your whole post...... Finding a decent basketball coach is way harder than finding a good football coach. There isn’t a Coach Hammock version of basketball for our Huskies. What I’m getting at though is that people keep bringing up Patton. Patton didn’t lose talent. Montgomery does. It’s not just Montgomery though..... This is a nationwide issue. So does firing him fix the basketball program that’s been broken for decades? We were two games shy of playing Arizona State on the big stage. We’ve seen way worst guys. So how do we make changes without losing all the ground we’ve made up....?

Why is finding a decent basketball coach "way harder" than finding a good football coach? Percentage-wise there are far more candidates trying to make the move up in basketball; say the coach of NCAA's Prairie View A&M, a school of 9,000, who knows he's not getting to a major program from there but could get hired to a "major" job from a higher-regarded conference like the MAC; ala Hurley, Groce, etc. NIU once hit a home run hiring one of the state's best high school coaches in John McDougal, there are Division II or III coaches looking to move up, big-time program assistants hoping for a chance to run their own program. Granted it takes a good AD and not just an executive search firm to find them.
Patton didn't lose talent because he could neither recruit or develop talent and he was a bad fit.
Why do you accept the premise that the nationwide issue has to work against us? Find a coach who can minimize the defections or draw in talent from other programs to replace the losses.
You asked "so does firing him fix the basketball program that's been broken for decades?" Whether it's been broken for decades or not, you just want to accept the status quo? Standing in place is a great idea for progress.
Sorry but saying we were two games shy of playing Arizona State on the big stage is completely insane. No. 1, two games shy is still two games shy. No. 2, pretend we did win the MAC tourney, NIU would not have been seeded as Buffalo was because we didn't have 30 wins with victories over West Virginia, San Francisco, St. Bonaventure, or Syracuse with a loss to Marquette.
You say "we've seen way worst guys"; yes ala Patton, but we've also seen far better. If you can't see the gap in talent from Arizona State to Buffalo then you won't see the gap from NIU to Arizona State.
Then you ask "So how do we make changes without losing all the ground we’ve made up....?" HOW MUCH GROUND HAS BEEN MADE UP when you can't get above .500?!? Sorry, but sometimes you have to take one step back in order to make two steps forward. Bottom line BD5yp, you are content with this mediocrity and some of us want more because we've experienced more and have seen other mid-major or MAC programs do better. Guess it's kind of like arguing against a post you haven't bothered to read.
03-24-2019 08:15 AM
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BDB5yp Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
(03-24-2019 08:15 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:  
(03-24-2019 12:10 AM)BDB5yp Wrote:  I didn’t read your whole post...... Finding a decent basketball coach is way harder than finding a good football coach. There isn’t a Coach Hammock version of basketball for our Huskies. What I’m getting at though is that people keep bringing up Patton. Patton didn’t lose talent. Montgomery does. It’s not just Montgomery though..... This is a nationwide issue. So does firing him fix the basketball program that’s been broken for decades? We were two games shy of playing Arizona State on the big stage. We’ve seen way worst guys. So how do we make changes without losing all the ground we’ve made up....?

Why is finding a decent basketball coach "way harder" than finding a good football coach? Percentage-wise there are far more candidates trying to make the move up in basketball; say the coach of NCAA's Prairie View A&M, a school of 9,000, who knows he's not getting to a major program from there but could get hired to a "major" job from a higher-regarded conference like the MAC; ala Hurley, Groce, etc. NIU once hit a home run hiring one of the state's best high school coaches in John McDougal, there are Division II or III coaches looking to move up, big-time program assistants hoping for a chance to run their own program. Granted it takes a good AD and not just an executive search firm to find them.
Patton didn't lose talent because he could neither recruit or develop talent and he was a bad fit.
Why do you accept the premise that the nationwide issue has to work against us? Find a coach who can minimize the defections or draw in talent from other programs to replace the losses.
You asked "so does firing him fix the basketball program that's been broken for decades?" Whether it's been broken for decades or not, you just want to accept the status quo? Standing in place is a great idea for progress.
Sorry but saying we were two games shy of playing Arizona State on the big stage is completely insane. No. 1, two games shy is still two games shy. No. 2, pretend we did win the MAC tourney, NIU would not have been seeded as Buffalo was because we didn't have 30 wins with victories over West Virginia, San Francisco, St. Bonaventure, or Syracuse with a loss to Marquette.
You say "we've seen way worst guys"; yes ala Patton, but we've also seen far better. If you can't see the gap in talent from Arizona State to Buffalo then you won't see the gap from NIU to Arizona State.
Then you ask "So how do we make changes without losing all the ground we’ve made up....?" HOW MUCH GROUND HAS BEEN MADE UP when you can't get above .500?!? Sorry, but sometimes you have to take one step back in order to make two steps forward. Bottom line BD5yp, you are content with this mediocrity and some of us want more because we've experienced more and have seen other mid-major or MAC programs do better. Guess it's kind of like arguing against a post you haven't bothered to read.

I agree with most of your arguments, but firing Montgomery might cost us another 10 years of mediocrity, if we don’t nail this next hire. We suck at hiring B-ball coaches. Lol. Continuity is our best gamble right now. Unless you have this list of ready to go candidates.( still a risk) Much easier said than done. I believe that when Montgomery does have that breakthrough season for us he will take the first opportunity out. This might be the toughest place to coach basketball in America.
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2019 08:35 AM by BDB5yp.)
03-24-2019 08:32 AM
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dc1 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
this past season easily should’ve ended with 20 wins and some crappy postseason tournament. NKU at home, Ball St at home, A game in the Oakland tournament and Toledo there all should’ve been NIU victory. In the history of NIU basketball how many 20 win seasons has their been?
03-24-2019 09:01 AM
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Milwaukee Pilot Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
I don't care who the coach is, who the next one will be, blah, blah, blah.....whomever it is--the CULTURE of this program has to change!!

Like it or not, we are bottom tier of the MAC----and nothing, and I mean NOTHING has been built in the last 15 years.

How many times has a player come in and walked onto the floor on Senior Day playing his last game. Someone please list them. I will start with Levi Bradley. No Porter, Wilson, Pauga...etc that afternoon.

I read here that Jaylon may transfer. Tommy is transferring, and heck, he came in as a transfer.

Bowie, Maric, Highsmith???

You cannot build if you cannot sustain (sound familiar). I'd be more than willing to sit and suffer some more if I knew three years down the road what the lineup would be. Look what Loyola did with a senior laced team....look at Nevada....look at Buffalo.....and I'm not saying we need to be Final Four, top 20, etc.....we need to be competitive in our own conference.

I have no idea about the inner workings of the program---but something has to give.

And, please, don't get cute and tell me that Duke doesn't trot out many seniors on senior day also.
03-24-2019 10:18 AM
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17Huskies Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
I was not under the impression that Key was going to be anything great next year, the injuries have side-tracked his career. That being said, he had a starting position or significant time right in front of him...someone like that, that's been in the program for 4 years, not sticking around...just kills you...and its Monty's biggest Achilles heel...Every program has guys that transfer after 1 year...but the after 3 or 4 years transfers hurt bad.
03-24-2019 01:50 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
(03-23-2019 11:41 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  We draw <1k people to games. It is a herculean task to sell the program to recruits when fan support isn’t there (Coach K’s final year at Army was 9-17). It is also incredibly difficult to attract good candidates. Bradley draws 5700 and Ohio 5600. http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...ndance.pdf

Here are the programs between 700-1300:
Alabama State 1296
Canisius 1280
SIU-Edwardsville 1268
Appalachian St 1268
FIU 1267
North Carolina Central 1263
Army 1253
SEMO 1251
Longwood 1248
Abilene Christian 1246
Detroit Mercy 1240
Loyola Maramount 1238
Marist 1224
EIU 1216
UMKC 1210
Alabama A&M 1209
Denver 1204
FAU 1188
High Point 1181
Northwestern St 1180
Samford 1159
Pepperdine 1156
Maryland-Baltimore County 1155
Niagara 1148
Coppin St 1146
Kennesaw 1146
San Antonio 1146
Northeastern 1142
Southern 1124
UMass Lowell 1119
Gardner-Webb 1110
Incarnate Word 1095
Manhattan 1094
Lehigh 1076
IUPUI 1056
Maine 1028
NIU 998
Drexel 989
Long Island-Brooklyn 989
Sam Houston State 944
Saint Francis PA 930
Brown 882
Dartmouth 868
New Orleans 863
Rio Grande Valley 845
SELA 837
Jacksonville 810
McNeese 793
Bethune-Cookman 776
Northridge 768
Robert Morris 765
American 761
Citadel 757
NJIT 756
Loyola Maryland 700


Teams with a better NET than NIU? 1 (Northeastern)

Teams with a top 25 win? 1 (NIU)
That seems inconsistent. You say NIU can't attract a "good candidate" and then you also throw in Coach K and his record his last year at Army. I draw from that that 1) Duke reached "down to a lower level" when they hired Coach K, and 2) despite coming from a "lower level" and despite coming off a season with a lackluster record, nonetheless, the man could coach, and was the right man for the situation at the time.

So …. no. I don't think we are going to get Izzo or Coach K or any similar coach. But, we certainly CAN give an opportunity to a enthusiastic coach -- maybe a coach "from a lower level" with local ties and coaching ability that just may be able to attract some players, win some games, and bring back the enthusiasm to the program that MANY of us know is possible. The current leader certainly has had a fair shot at doing it, and has he? Can we say the current coach is the right guy for the job? At this time next year will NIU be closer to its goal (which I hope is a MAC Championship) with him at the helm? If not, perhaps NIU should save the money it invests in the basketball program and reinvest that money in football. Then move basketball games to the fieldhouse with temp bleachers for game nights. Pack it with students, and rebuild from the bottom up.
03-27-2019 02:25 PM
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klake87 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
(03-23-2019 11:41 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  We draw <1k people to games. It is a herculean task to sell the program to recruits when fan support isn’t there (Coach K’s final year at Army was 9-17). It is also incredibly difficult to attract good candidates. Bradley draws 5700 and Ohio 5600. http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...ndance.pdf

Here are the programs between 700-1300:
Alabama State 1296
Canisius 1280
SIU-Edwardsville 1268
Appalachian St 1268
FIU 1267
North Carolina Central 1263
Army 1253
SEMO 1251
Longwood 1248
Abilene Christian 1246
Detroit Mercy 1240
Loyola Maramount 1238
Marist 1224
EIU 1216
UMKC 1210
Alabama A&M 1209
Denver 1204
FAU 1188
High Point 1181
Northwestern St 1180
Samford 1159
Pepperdine 1156
Maryland-Baltimore County 1155
Niagara 1148
Coppin St 1146
Kennesaw 1146
San Antonio 1146
Northeastern 1142
Southern 1124
UMass Lowell 1119
Gardner-Webb 1110
Incarnate Word 1095
Manhattan 1094
Lehigh 1076
IUPUI 1056
Maine 1028
NIU 998
Drexel 989
Long Island-Brooklyn 989
Sam Houston State 944
Saint Francis PA 930
Brown 882
Dartmouth 868
New Orleans 863
Rio Grande Valley 845
SELA 837
Jacksonville 810
McNeese 793
Bethune-Cookman 776
Northridge 768
Robert Morris 765
American 761
Citadel 757
NJIT 756
Loyola Maryland 700


Teams with a better NET than NIU? 1 (Northeastern)

Teams with a top 25 win? 1 (NIU)

I wish this list also had size of university/college. Be interested to see how large these schools are. Looking at list, most are much smaller in size than NIU
03-27-2019 03:16 PM
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uiniu57 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
(03-27-2019 02:25 PM)chihuskie Wrote:  
(03-23-2019 11:41 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  We draw <1k people to games. It is a herculean task to sell the program to recruits when fan support isn’t there (Coach K’s final year at Army was 9-17). It is also incredibly difficult to attract good candidates. Bradley draws 5700 and Ohio 5600.
That seems inconsistent. You say NIU can't attract a "good candidate" and then you also throw in Coach K and his record his last year at Army. I draw from that that 1) Duke reached "down to a lower level" when they hired Coach K, and 2) despite coming from a "lower level" and despite coming off a season with a lackluster record, nonetheless, the man could coach, and was the right man for the situation at the time.

So …. no. I don't think we are going to get Izzo or Coach K or any similar coach. But, we certainly CAN give an opportunity to a enthusiastic coach -- maybe a coach "from a lower level" with local ties and coaching ability that just may be able to attract some players, win some games, and bring back the enthusiasm to the program that MANY of us know is possible. The current leader certainly has had a fair shot at doing it, and has he? Can we say the current coach is the right guy for the job? At this time next year will NIU be closer to its goal (which I hope is a MAC Championship) with him at the helm?

Sorry IWokeUpLikeThis, but attendance is no guarantee of success or vice versa, it's a chicken or the egg. NIU's football attendance was average and Joe Novak brought optimism, interest and victories; somehow the last coach could only manage the third item (to a degree). John McDougal did the same for Huskie hoops with the same three ingredients, Molinari had two of three, fortunes dipped, Hammel with T.J. Lux got two of three back and NIU returned to the NCAA; Patton managed to bring despair into the equation.
ChiHuskie hits the nail on the head in exposing the incongruent mentality some have with analogies that involve comparisons with Duke. ChiHuskie asks the right questions and the correct answer is that a change is needed. Could things get worse? Unfortunately that's a possibility. Maybe it'll take another hire four years later, but name me a MAC program or any other mid-major that got better by staying the course when the course is mediocrity? There are coaches with winning records who have recently been let go because those schools have standards that may be unrealistic. What's unrealistic at NIU is the courage to make an obvious move.
03-28-2019 12:00 PM
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MaddDawgz02 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
There has to be a commitment from the top to push basketball and we are on a string of ADs that absolutely could not care less about basketball. Basketball has not been touched in a long time by higher level leadership and it shows
03-28-2019 12:10 PM
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klake87 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
(03-28-2019 12:10 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  There has to be a commitment from the top to push basketball and we are on a string of ADs that absolutely could not care less about basketball. Basketball has not been touched in a long time by higher level leadership and it shows

So what is your answer to the problem. You criticize but offer no ideas. Unless you going to kick in 500k a year to buy out Monty and be able to hire another coach, Frazier has little options. He seems to be at most basketball games and is working on a shoe string budget. With declining enrollment, their source of revenue is dropping. In addition, they are saving money this season in football due to Hammock salary being less than Carey's. Difficult to do much when you have no money.
03-28-2019 12:52 PM
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dogdangit Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
The University sent out an email today stating that next year's budget is $28 million short. In that same email they stated athletics has to cut 18% of their budget for next year. Now I don't know what athletics exact expenses are but it usually has hovered around $25 million. If that is true then they're looking to cut at a minimum $4 million. You can kiss the idea of firing Montgomery goodbye.
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2019 03:19 PM by dogdangit.)
03-28-2019 03:09 PM
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klake87 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
(03-28-2019 03:09 PM)dogdangit Wrote:  The University sent out an email today stating that next year's budget is $28 million short. In that same email they stated athletics has to cut 18% of their budget for next year. Now I don't know what athletics exact expenses are but it usually has hovered around $25 million. If that is true then they're looking to cut at a minimum $4 million. You can kiss the idea of firing Montgomery goodbye.

Donors are even more important. Student fees way down from years ago.
03-28-2019 03:23 PM
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Dog Fan Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
(03-28-2019 03:09 PM)dogdangit Wrote:  The University sent out an email today stating that next year's budget is $28 million short. In that same email they stated athletics has to cut 18% of their budget for next year. Now I don't know what athletics exact expenses are but it usually has hovered around $25 million. If that is true then they're looking to cut at a minimum $4 million. You can kiss the idea of firing Montgomery goodbye.

Does this consider all the revenue that NIU generates? Revenue from the big games, donations, ticket revenue, sponsorships, licensures, etc. Does NIU expect Athletics to generate enough revenue to subsidize the academic side?

The bottom line is this: Everyone keeps saying that NIU is destitute and can't find enough money even for deodorant cakes in the urinals. If this were truly the case, then NIU and Athletics should seriously consider dropping athletics completely. Yes, that means loss of a lot of revenue, but apparently that never enters the equation anyway. If they are running at a such a loss and are destitute as some people claim, they need to shut down athletics at NIU, because we will never stop hearing about "budget issues".
03-28-2019 03:28 PM
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Dog Fan Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Niu baskerball and ncaa
(03-28-2019 03:23 PM)klake87 Wrote:  
(03-28-2019 03:09 PM)dogdangit Wrote:  The University sent out an email today stating that next year's budget is $28 million short. In that same email they stated athletics has to cut 18% of their budget for next year. Now I don't know what athletics exact expenses are but it usually has hovered around $25 million. If that is true then they're looking to cut at a minimum $4 million. You can kiss the idea of firing Montgomery goodbye.

Donors are even more important. Student fees way down from years ago.

Exactly! If there is truly a budget "crisis", it seems like Athletics has done little to address it.

Unlike an academic department, Athletics has the ability to generate lots of money. Have they worked their current donor base (i.e., ALL donors) to request additional donations in a respectful and appreciative manner, complete with thank you letters for everyone who donates and personalized thank you letters for donations above a certain level? They should also be working every damn business from the Mississippi to Chicago for sponsorships or donations. I don't think there's a business that exists that cannot afford a small donation such as $100. Those add up, people! They should work the local population with donation mailings and ads in the Chronicle. Also, they should consider more informal fundraising events that won't cost $400 per person like the Victor E. Huskie Ball.

There has always been a lack of aggressiveness to generate gifts and donations. Look how they dropped the ball after all that huge Orange Bowl sizzle. Donations should have been way, way up after that. Were they?

What about hiring a fundraiser to mount a professional fundraising campaign? They may be able to find a fundraising company that will work on a contingency basis where they earn a percentage of the donations generated.

There are many ways money can be generated, but they need to want to do it. With declining State resources, the generation of revenue is critically important for the present and future.
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2019 03:53 PM by Dog Fan.)
03-28-2019 03:50 PM
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