They'll be back in 6 months, in some form or another. Shias and Sunnis hate each other, in many cases more than either of them hates Jews. The government of Iraq is Shia. The government of Iran is Shia. The government of Syria is Alawite (Shia sect). The people in eastern Syria and western Iraq are 80-90% Sunni. Until they are ruled by Sunnis, there will always be a strong underlying desire for revolt, and the Saudis will find ways to fund it.

I say let's get out while the getting is good, and leave them to sort out their own problems going forward.

(03-22-2019 10:18 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  They'll be back in 6 months, in some form or another. The government of Iraq is Shia. The government of Iran is Shia. The government of Syria is Alawite (Shia sect). The people in eastern Syria and western Iraq are 80-90% Sunni. Until they are ruled by Sunnis, there will always be a strong underlying desire for revolt, and the Saudis will find ways to fund it.

I say let's get out while the getting is good, and leave them to sort out their own problems going forward.

With the poor Kurds just wishing everyone would leave them the f alone

(03-22-2019 10:18 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  They'll be back in 6 months, in some form or another. The government of Iraq is Shia. The government of Iran is Shia. The government of Syria is Alawite (Shia sect). The people in eastern Syria and western Iraq are 80-90% Sunni. Until they are ruled by Sunnis, there will always be a strong underlying desire for revolt, and the Saudis will find ways to fund it.

I say let's get out while the getting is good, and leave them to sort out their own problems going forward.

Might as well. Not many Christians left to murder....

They’re coming back.

(03-22-2019 10:21 AM)bobdizole Wrote:  

(03-22-2019 10:18 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  They'll be back in 6 months, in some form or another. The government of Iraq is Shia. The government of Iran is Shia. The government of Syria is Alawite (Shia sect). The people in eastern Syria and western Iraq are 80-90% Sunni. Until they are ruled by Sunnis, there will always be a strong underlying desire for revolt, and the Saudis will find ways to fund it.
I say let's get out while the getting is good, and leave them to sort out their own problems going forward.

With the poor Kurds just wishing everyone would leave them the f alone

I'm no fan of Crazy Joe, but like a stopped watch he did have one good idea years ago.

If we were going to go into Iraq and overthrow Saddam (and I still have my questions about the advisability of that), then what we should have done is to split it into three countries--Kurdistan in the north, Shia Mesopotamia between the rivers in the east, and Sunni Iraq in the west. The problem was getting Turkey to sign off on Kurdistan. But at the time (not now) Turkey really, really wanted into the EU. So I would have given the Halliburtion contact for the Kurdistan area to Schlumberger, and told the French that they finally get influence over the area that are still pissed off about having it taken away from them at San Remo, but that the price would be convincing Turkey that Kurdistan is the price of EU membership. I would have made Kurdistan big enough to absorb returning Kurdish refugees, and done whatever we could to convince Kurds in Turkey and Syria to return to their homeland. This is sorta similar to what was done with Palestine after WWI, except this time we would just deal with one nationality instead of mixing two. And you'd have to keep some kind of provisional military government in place until enough Kurds returned, or else you'd risk making them a minority in their own country. And arm the crap out of them, so they can take care of themselves.

Mesopotamia would probably be the easier one. That area is heavily Shia and something like the present Iraqi government would probably have emerged. And they have enough oil and agriculture to have a stable economy.

I'd have left some of Saddam's Baathists in power in Sunni Iraq, only kept them on a fairly short leash. One of our mistakes was totally dismantling the old Baathist infrastructure. Let it stay in place, just over a smaller and more cohesive area. As they got established and consolidated power, I would expect that they would have tried to ally with the Sunnis in eastern Syria. I'd expect something like what has happened, but I think we could keep enough of a lid on the Baathists that they wouldn't have gone as destructive as ISIS did. And I think the Baathist army would be able to hold onto territory against the Syrians, unless Russia came in a much bigger way than they have shown any inclination to do. There'd be a war, but we wouldn't have to be in the middle of it.

Obama never cared, they were JV anyways ya know. No biggie.

(03-22-2019 10:37 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I'd have left some of Saddam's Baathists in power in Sunni Iraq, only kept them on a fairly short leash. One of our mistakes was totally dismantling the old Baathist infrastructure.

One would think that after the cluster**** that the governance of Post WWII Germany was we would have learned our lesson. We don't tend to learn lessons very well.

Purge the bad people responsible for the atrocities and let the people who joined the party simply to get a job do the work they know how to do.