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cmett003 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Future of ODU Basketball
(03-22-2019 10:01 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  
(03-22-2019 09:41 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  We should be able to compete moving forward, but I don't see us improving from a 13/14 seed team if we can get out of CUSA. We have too many weaknesses. Dickens can't score. Carver can't score. Reece couldn't get on the court this year. Zip is undersized if we are playing a big team like Purdue instead of a positionless team. Wade can't shoot. X and Kith are streaky and inconsistent. Team will be young. Granted, some of these areas could improve, but unless Oliver is the next coming of Ja Morant, I'm having trouble seeing any improvement over this year. We need better players to take the next step.

Dickens has shown that he can be a scorer. He just seemed to hit a wall late in the year. I think he's going to be a good one.

That baby jumper is Dickens bread and butter. When they stopped running that play for him things got harder and he lost his touch. Also put 25 lbs on him and he would be a monster.
03-22-2019 10:30 AM
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Petey Hodge Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Future of ODU Basketball
Can we sign a euro big that can shoot?

More like Gerald... and less like Anton?
03-22-2019 10:32 AM
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Post: #23
RE: Future of ODU Basketball
(03-22-2019 08:56 AM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  
(03-22-2019 08:19 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  We have a solid young core with Green, Kithcart, Dickens, Wade, Kalu, Godwin, Oliver and Reese. These young guys gained a ton of experience this year and learned what its like to play in a NCAA Tournament game. We still have questions on the offensive side of the ball but I think the future is bright. We could use a couple pieces to fill in but the core is intact.

I'm excited for the future of ODU basketball!

We need some offense. I am not sure if it is the skill of the players, or the offensive scheme, but something needs to change. We need to replace an average of 32 points per-game in BJ and Caver and I don't see where that is coming from?


Look at ODU's avg scoring for the last years under Blaine and the years under JJ. You know what you'll see? A reasonably flat level of scoring. Every time kids graduate many people ask that same question. Where will the scoring come from? How will we replace that scoring? We do. Pure and simple we DO. We always DO.
Here are the averages for many recent seasons:
06-07 69.4
07-08 66.6
08-09 66.7
09-10 67.1
10-11 65.6 (27-7 record) Lee and Hassell graduated made the NCAAs
11-12 65.6 (22-10 record) made the NCAAs
12-13 64.9 (5-25 record)
13-14 64.2 (18-18)
14-15 64.9 (27-8)
15-16 68.5 (25-13)
16-17 64.5
17-18 73.3
18-19 65.7 - made the NCAAs

that is a 13 year average of 66.7. It does not matter who plays for us, who graduates, who returns. We'll score at about the same rate every year. Every year. The year after Gerald, Frank and Carter graduated the world was coming to an end. We could NEVER replace that scoring. We scored the exact same amount of points the very next year. The same average.
03-22-2019 10:46 AM
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odu09 Online
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Post: #24
RE: Future of ODU Basketball
No offense meant by this please but just putting the average scoring numbers is kind of meaningless if you don't also include points against. Being defensive and keeping the opponents low scoring is our bread and butter. So I'm not critiquing your post per se, more critiquing the question as well since it doesn't tell the full story.

Also, 73 the year before was a nice little jump.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2019 10:59 AM by odu09.)
03-22-2019 10:58 AM
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Gilesfan Online
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RE: Future of ODU Basketball
The offense did struggle this year. They had the best defense of the Jones era though. They turned the ball over too often for a team that plays slow and doesn't shoot lights out.

The good news is we are shooting more three that we did the first 4 years under Jones so we've seen some growth with the times...way less long 2 point jump shot.
03-22-2019 11:10 AM
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Post: #26
RE: Future of ODU Basketball
(03-22-2019 10:58 AM)odu09 Wrote:  No offense meant by this please but just putting the average scoring numbers is kind of meaningless if you don't also include points against. Being defensive and keeping the opponents low scoring is our bread and butter. So I'm not critiquing your post per se, more critiquing the question as well since it doesn't tell the full story.

Also, 73 the year before was a nice little jump.

It is all there at the ODU site. If the original post has asked that I'd have written it down. The poster did the annual whine about where were the graduating points coming from. I answered. From the team. Replacing Lee, Hassell and Carter was harder than replacing Caver and Stith (offensively) will be.

I only have my memory, but those years under Blaine the teams allowed an average in the high 50s to very low 60s. We've allowed an average of low 60s in the years under JJ.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2019 11:21 AM by ODU True Blue.)
03-22-2019 11:20 AM
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EverRespect Online
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RE: Future of ODU Basketball
(03-22-2019 11:20 AM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  
(03-22-2019 10:58 AM)odu09 Wrote:  No offense meant by this please but just putting the average scoring numbers is kind of meaningless if you don't also include points against. Being defensive and keeping the opponents low scoring is our bread and butter. So I'm not critiquing your post per se, more critiquing the question as well since it doesn't tell the full story.

Also, 73 the year before was a nice little jump.

It is all there at the ODU site. If the original post has asked that I'd have written it down. The poster did the annual whine about where were the graduating points coming from. I answered. From the team. Replacing Lee, Hassell and Carter was harder than replacing Caver and Stith (offensively) will be.

I only have my memory, but those years under Blaine the teams allowed an average in the high 50s to very low 60s. We've allowed an average of low 60s in the years under JJ.

Well yes, Green, Godwin, and Kith will replace the points. The concern is we are still one-dimensional and unlikely to take the next step because there is no way we can beat a top 20 team at the end of the season that has time to prepare on a big stage. It will also mean we will continue to lose to mediocre CUSA teams because they know us and we are so easy to defend. I mean, they literally ignored Carver last night.
03-22-2019 11:32 AM
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mac Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Future of ODU Basketball
(03-22-2019 11:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(03-22-2019 11:20 AM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  
(03-22-2019 10:58 AM)odu09 Wrote:  No offense meant by this please but just putting the average scoring numbers is kind of meaningless if you don't also include points against. Being defensive and keeping the opponents low scoring is our bread and butter. So I'm not critiquing your post per se, more critiquing the question as well since it doesn't tell the full story.

Also, 73 the year before was a nice little jump.

It is all there at the ODU site. If the original post has asked that I'd have written it down. The poster did the annual whine about where were the graduating points coming from. I answered. From the team. Replacing Lee, Hassell and Carter was harder than replacing Caver and Stith (offensively) will be.

I only have my memory, but those years under Blaine the teams allowed an average in the high 50s to very low 60s. We've allowed an average of low 60s in the years under JJ.

Well yes, Green, Godwin, and Kith will replace the points. The concern is we are still one-dimensional and unlikely to take the next step because there is no way we can beat a top 20 team at the end of the season that has time to prepare on a big stage. It will also mean we will continue to lose to mediocre CUSA teams because they know us and we are so easy to defend. I mean, they literally ignored Carver last night.

“I mean, they literally ignored Carver last night.”~~ that right there is a major problem. If we could move Zip to his place and get a center who can and will score, it sure would go a long way when you put it together with the other returning players.
03-22-2019 11:47 AM
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EverRespect Online
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Post: #29
RE: Future of ODU Basketball
(03-22-2019 11:47 AM)mac Wrote:  
(03-22-2019 11:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(03-22-2019 11:20 AM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  
(03-22-2019 10:58 AM)odu09 Wrote:  No offense meant by this please but just putting the average scoring numbers is kind of meaningless if you don't also include points against. Being defensive and keeping the opponents low scoring is our bread and butter. So I'm not critiquing your post per se, more critiquing the question as well since it doesn't tell the full story.

Also, 73 the year before was a nice little jump.

It is all there at the ODU site. If the original post has asked that I'd have written it down. The poster did the annual whine about where were the graduating points coming from. I answered. From the team. Replacing Lee, Hassell and Carter was harder than replacing Caver and Stith (offensively) will be.

I only have my memory, but those years under Blaine the teams allowed an average in the high 50s to very low 60s. We've allowed an average of low 60s in the years under JJ.

Well yes, Green, Godwin, and Kith will replace the points. The concern is we are still one-dimensional and unlikely to take the next step because there is no way we can beat a top 20 team at the end of the season that has time to prepare on a big stage. It will also mean we will continue to lose to mediocre CUSA teams because they know us and we are so easy to defend. I mean, they literally ignored Carver last night.

“I mean, they literally ignored Carver last night.”~~ that right there is a major problem. If we could move Zip to his place and get a center who can and will score, it sure would go a long way when you put it together with the other returning players.

Agree, but being realistic, Jones is going to play Carver and his minutes will likely go up. He'll never be a finisher at the rim, but if he could hit an uncontested 3 at a 30% clip, a lot of these problems would solve themselves. I would think if he shot 500-1,000 per day over the next 8 months, he could contribute more than just defense next year. Not saying he could be the next Keyon Carter or anything, but that style.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2019 11:57 AM by EverRespect.)
03-22-2019 11:53 AM
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RE: Future of ODU Basketball
I think in order to take the next step (whatever that is) we need to develop a little more balanced team. Little more offense, not rely so heavily on D alone. It really does make us one dimensional and easy to plan against.
Obviously they won a bunch of games, but we all commented during the year how we were just scraping by with 2-3 point wins based primarily on D. This leaves me feeling we're not well balanced and need more O in order to become top 50 competitve.

JJ's willingness to sacrifice Offense is evident by his playing Carver heavy minutes all year.
03-22-2019 01:09 PM
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RE: Future of ODU Basketball
(03-22-2019 01:09 PM)VB Monarch Wrote:  I think in order to take the next step (whatever that is) we need to develop a little more balanced team. Little more offense, not rely so heavily on D alone. It really does make us one dimensional and easy to plan against.
Obviously they won a bunch of games, but we all commented during the year how we were just scraping by with 2-3 point wins based primarily on D. This leaves me feeling we're not well balanced and need more O in order to become top 50 competitve.

JJ's willingness to sacrifice Offense is evident by his playing Carver heavy minutes all year.

When there is nobody within 15 feet of you and you have the ball, you have to be able to shoot it. Why Jones runs an offense that has the PF catching it behind the arc when his man doesn't need to follow him there is beyond me. If he can hit the shot or draw the defender out and then throw a nice pass to Dickens or Zip, that's one thing. If he can't shoot that and make 30% of them next year, we are screwed. We will be stuck with the same offense, but without Caver running it.
03-22-2019 01:15 PM
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #32
RE: Future of ODU Basketball
Carver is not going to shoot 3s and he's not going to make 30%. I wouldn't even put that in your head.

Carvers role is going to be the same next year. Growth in offense will have to come with more interior scoring from Kalu/Dickens, Green emerging, and better shooting from Oliver/Godwin.

Carver (like Taylor) at the top of the key doesn't mean he has to be a threat to shoot. Its to get curls at the elbow from others or if the defense falls asleep, a backdoor to the center. Taylor was much better in this respect than Carver.

The reason the offense played badly had more to do with Stith/Green/Kithcart missing good looks than Carver being on the court.
03-22-2019 01:23 PM
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RE: Future of ODU Basketball
(03-22-2019 01:23 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Carver is not going to shoot 3s and he's not going to make 30%. I wouldn't even put that in your head.

Carvers role is going to be the same next year. Growth in offense will have to come with more interior scoring from Kalu/Dickens, Green emerging, and better shooting from Oliver/Godwin.

Carver (like Taylor) at the top of the key doesn't mean he has to be a threat to shoot. Its to get curls at the elbow from others or if the defense falls asleep, a backdoor to the center. Taylor was much better in this respect than Carver.

The reason the offense played badly had more to do with Stith/Green/Kithcart missing good looks than Carver being on the court.

That's my point. Offense isn't going to grow much with Kalu/Dickens. Not saying they won't have some good games depending on matchups, but last night they combined for 3 shots (missed all 3). The reason they only got 3 shots was because we couldn't even get them the ball. They were playing 1 on 2 because Carver was farting around on the perimeter and his man was on the other side of our center. Again, they will have some nice games, and if the conference is bad again, may even dominate some smaller teams or stupid coaches and they might even be able to compete for another title, but they won't be beating any real teams in March with this offense unless Carver shoots good enough for his man to follow him and Zip/Dickens inside become a viable option. Otherwise it will be X or Kith for a contested 3 at the end of the clock (and people will trash him for it just like they did Caver).
03-22-2019 01:38 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Future of ODU Basketball
(03-22-2019 01:23 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Carver is not going to shoot 3s and he's not going to make 30%. I wouldn't even put that in your head.

Carvers role is going to be the same next year. Growth in offense will have to come with more interior scoring from Kalu/Dickens, Green emerging, and better shooting from Oliver/Godwin.

Carver (like Taylor) at the top of the key doesn't mean he has to be a threat to shoot. Its to get curls at the elbow from others or if the defense falls asleep, a backdoor to the center. Taylor was much better in this respect than Carver.

The reason the offense played badly had more to do with Stith/Green/Kithcart missing good looks than Carver being on the court.
Last night they slumped 10-12 feet off of Carver and dropped into the middle. There was nowhere to pass the ball to except back out to another guard. Great coaching move on Purdue’s part. Yet we never changed just had him catch the ball 20 feet out, hold it over his head, look inside, then give it back to Caver or someone else. Trying the same thing all day when it’s not there I sure don’t get. Great move Purdue. Dumb ODU.
03-22-2019 02:02 PM
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RE: Future of ODU Basketball
(03-22-2019 02:02 PM)mac Wrote:  
(03-22-2019 01:23 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Carver is not going to shoot 3s and he's not going to make 30%. I wouldn't even put that in your head.

Carvers role is going to be the same next year. Growth in offense will have to come with more interior scoring from Kalu/Dickens, Green emerging, and better shooting from Oliver/Godwin.

Carver (like Taylor) at the top of the key doesn't mean he has to be a threat to shoot. Its to get curls at the elbow from others or if the defense falls asleep, a backdoor to the center. Taylor was much better in this respect than Carver.

The reason the offense played badly had more to do with Stith/Green/Kithcart missing good looks than Carver being on the court.
Last night they slumped 10-12 feet off of Carver and dropped into the middle. There was nowhere to pass the ball to except back out to another guard. Great coaching move on Purdue’s part. Yet we never changed just had him catch the ball 20 feet out, hold it over his head, look inside, then give it back to Caver or someone else. Trying the same thing all day when it’s not there I sure don’t get. Great move Purdue. Dumb ODU.

And our conference mates and competitors will be watching that film.
03-22-2019 02:09 PM
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RE: Future of ODU Basketball
Its not like every team we play didn't know the strength and weaknesses of our team. Teams play off Carver all year long. Dickens/Kalu will improve on getting in position to receive passes and become better at finishing. We really had no reason to even throw the ball to Dickens bc he can't score inside unless it's an open dunk. As I said at the start, Dickens is very raw offensively, he's a defense guy that can get out in transition. Carver isn't the reason Kalu and Dickens (mainly Dickens) aren't ready to be scorers.
03-22-2019 02:29 PM
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RE: Future of ODU Basketball
(03-22-2019 11:53 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(03-22-2019 11:47 AM)mac Wrote:  
(03-22-2019 11:32 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(03-22-2019 11:20 AM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  
(03-22-2019 10:58 AM)odu09 Wrote:  No offense meant by this please but just putting the average scoring numbers is kind of meaningless if you don't also include points against. Being defensive and keeping the opponents low scoring is our bread and butter. So I'm not critiquing your post per se, more critiquing the question as well since it doesn't tell the full story.

Also, 73 the year before was a nice little jump.

It is all there at the ODU site. If the original post has asked that I'd have written it down. The poster did the annual whine about where were the graduating points coming from. I answered. From the team. Replacing Lee, Hassell and Carter was harder than replacing Caver and Stith (offensively) will be.

I only have my memory, but those years under Blaine the teams allowed an average in the high 50s to very low 60s. We've allowed an average of low 60s in the years under JJ.

Well yes, Green, Godwin, and Kith will replace the points. The concern is we are still one-dimensional and unlikely to take the next step because there is no way we can beat a top 20 team at the end of the season that has time to prepare on a big stage. It will also mean we will continue to lose to mediocre CUSA teams because they know us and we are so easy to defend. I mean, they literally ignored Carver last night.

“I mean, they literally ignored Carver last night.”~~ that right there is a major problem. If we could move Zip to his place and get a center who can and will score, it sure would go a long way when you put it together with the other returning players.

Agree, but being realistic, Jones is going to play Carver and his minutes will likely go up. He'll never be a finisher at the rim, but if he could hit an uncontested 3 at a 30% clip, a lot of these problems would solve themselves. I would think if he shot 500-1,000 per day over the next 8 months, he could contribute more than just defense next year. Not saying he could be the next Keyon Carter or anything, but that style.
If he could just shoot well enough to attempt unguarded, top of the key jumpers, it would make a huge difference and that should be achievable. Hell I half way believe he could hit that shot enough now to pull the trigger from time to time.

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03-22-2019 02:33 PM
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RE: Future of ODU Basketball
(03-22-2019 01:09 PM)VB Monarch Wrote:  I think in order to take the next step (whatever that is) we need to develop a little more balanced team. Little more offense, not rely so heavily on D alone. It really does make us one dimensional and easy to plan against.
Obviously they won a bunch of games, but we all commented during the year how we were just scraping by with 2-3 point wins based primarily on D. This leaves me feeling we're not well balanced and need more O in order to become top 50 competitve.

JJ's willingness to sacrifice Offense is evident by his playing Carver heavy minutes all year.
Agree. The one thing that mid majors who win tournament games have in common is they can shoot. We will never take the next step forward until JJ or our next coach commit to having a good shooting team rather than sacrificing offense for defense.

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03-22-2019 02:36 PM
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RE: Future of ODU Basketball
FWIW, Carver shot 5.9% on 2 point shots away from the rim (49% at the rim). Wade hot s6.7% on 2 point shots away from the rim (52% at the rim).

So no, I don't think he should shoot top of the key jumpers.
03-22-2019 02:38 PM
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RE: Future of ODU Basketball
(03-22-2019 02:02 PM)mac Wrote:  
(03-22-2019 01:23 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Carver is not going to shoot 3s and he's not going to make 30%. I wouldn't even put that in your head.

Carvers role is going to be the same next year. Growth in offense will have to come with more interior scoring from Kalu/Dickens, Green emerging, and better shooting from Oliver/Godwin.

Carver (like Taylor) at the top of the key doesn't mean he has to be a threat to shoot. Its to get curls at the elbow from others or if the defense falls asleep, a backdoor to the center. Taylor was much better in this respect than Carver.

The reason the offense played badly had more to do with Stith/Green/Kithcart missing good looks than Carver being on the court.
Last night they slumped 10-12 feet off of Carver and dropped into the middle. There was nowhere to pass the ball to except back out to another guard. Great coaching move on Purdue’s part. Yet we never changed just had him catch the ball 20 feet out, hold it over his head, look inside, then give it back to Caver or someone else. Trying the same thing all day when it’s not there I sure don’t get. Great move Purdue. Dumb ODU.
I would have told him to shoot it a couple times. They would have come out on him he they thought there was any chance he would shoot even if he likely won't make it.

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03-22-2019 02:40 PM
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