The flag bearers for the Democrats are now openly pondering dismantling whatever apparatus is necessary to change how the counting is done for who wins and who loses. "Lower the voting age to 16. Stack the SCOTUS ... double it in size if necessary. Abolish the electoral college and have direct democracy." These aren't "sitting on the counter top" solutions. You have to have rummaged through a lot of cabinets before looking back behind the stove to find that sort of stuff. It smells of desperation. It smells of the knowledge of an inability to pull together a coalition on anything of substance other than "not orange man." The Democratic Party of Bill Clinton is in shambles. White working class and union types are now completely out of the coalition. The union types especially like Trump directly on his policy "merits" as far as they're concerned. Tariffs on foreign competition in both the supply chain and end products on all things automotive? You just gave everybody from the UAW to United Steel Workers a semi. In terms of Latino voters, their immigration policy, if you have to paint them with a broad and imperfect brush, is "after our family is over, shut 'er down." And while first generation Latino immigrants are liberals ... they spawn second generation conservatives. This also isn't a stable base of the currently constituted Democrat Party. Most of the rest of the core consists of factions too small to stand on their own (LGBT, single mothers, Hollywood, tenured academia, socialist).


The Republican Party is ousting most of its vanilla core and parts of the fiscal core to be replaced by Trumpian populists who don't just not care about free trade, but actively fight against.


So it feels like it's Progressives vs Populists ... and populists will win that fight handily if that's how things lock into place right now. But there's an awful lot of groups on the sideline with no home right now in either place:

Fiscal conservatives, Libertarians, Corporate/Fortune 100/Globalists, Pro-Life, Evangelical, Neoconservatives, Moderates, "Blue Dogs" ... I'm sure there are more.

A lot of these groups feel like they end up landing in the Trump camp right now because it's less icky than the far left progressives. But there's no real home for them right now at least.

Yep. Lots of unintended consequences headed our way if the electoral college is abolished. Two party system? Done.

It's remarkable how short sighted people can be.

(03-20-2019 02:20 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The flag bearers for the Democrats are now openly pondering dismantling whatever apparatus is necessary to change how the counting is done for who wins and who loses. "Lower the voting age to 16. Stack the SCOTUS ... double it in size if necessary. Abolish the electoral college and have direct democracy." These aren't "sitting on the counter top" solutions. You have to have rummaged through a lot of cabinets before looking back behind the stove to find that sort of stuff. It smells of desperation. It smells of the knowledge of an inability to pull together a coalition on anything of substance other than "not orange man." The Democratic Party of Bill Clinton is in shambles. White working class and union types are now completely out of the coalition. The union types especially like Trump directly on his policy "merits" as far as they're concerned. Tariffs on foreign competition in both the supply chain and end products on all things automotive? You just gave everybody from the UAW to United Steel Workers a semi. In terms of Latino voters, their immigration policy, if you have to paint them with a broad and imperfect brush, is "after our family is over, shut 'er down." And while first generation Latino immigrants are liberals ... they spawn second generation conservatives. This also isn't a stable base of the currently constituted Democrat Party. Most of the rest of the core consists of factions too small to stand on their own (LGBT, single mothers, Hollywood, tenured academia, socialist).


The Republican Party is ousting most of its vanilla core and parts of the fiscal core to be replaced by Trumpian populists who don't just not care about free trade, but actively fight against.


So it feels like it's Progressives vs Populists ... and populists will win that fight handily if that's how things lock into place right now. But there's an awful lot of groups on the sideline with no home right now in either place:

Fiscal conservatives, Libertarians, Corporate/Fortune 100/Globalists, Pro-Life, Evangelical, Neoconservatives, Moderates, "Blue Dogs" ... I'm sure there are more.

A lot of these groups feel like they end up landing in the Trump camp right now because it's less icky than the far left progressives. But there's no real home for them right now at least.

Excellent insight.

You're the primary mod, right? So I just got my brownie points.

Seriously, though...

As a fiscal and social, pro-life, Evangelical conservative I get your point.

I've supported Cruz for quite a while because he's the best fit to date for who I am as a voter. I supported Trump for a few reasons:

1. He's not an Establishment Politician. And that moniker applies to both Dems and RINOs.
2. He's pro-America and America First.
   

As far as where voters like me might find a home, I seriously doubt the Democrats will ever look to entice me to their camp. I do think a GOP which returns to its original core will suit me well.

Let’s just start over and make rules that everybody can get down with. Weed, gay marriage, prostitution legal. Speed limits, automatic weapons and racism illlegal.

People don't understand the need for the electoral college, or the reason why the founding fathers created it, because it isn't taught to them anymore.

The President would be chosen by California & New York. The people in the "fly-over" states would no longer matter. Candidates would campaign in the Northeast, California, Seattle, Texas, and MAYBE Florida.

It would be a disaster.

(03-20-2019 03:47 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  People don't understand the need for the electoral college, or the reason why the founding fathers created it, because it isn't taught to them anymore.

The President would be chosen by California & New York. The people in the "fly-over" states would no longer matter. Candidates would campaign in the Northeast, California, Seattle, Texas, and MAYBE Florida.

It would be a disaster.

They don’t matter.

If REAL PEOPLE choose not to live there then why should those places be more important?

My thoughts on this are much less mainstream.

The left doesn't care how they destroy the Republic. They just want it removed and replaced with some brand or another of totalitarianism. They want to see world government. The current U.S. system will never fit in there. It has to be removed.

The Obama era push failed early on to actually change the country legislatively. The push back against Obamacare made it quite clear Americans were not going to vote themselves into socialism.

What do they do then? They try to pick a fight. They have been trying for the last six years to get the old white guys riled up enough to start shooting people. When they don't get enough they fake it. Thus all the faked right-wing attacks. Their goal is to start the civil war many of us believe is coming. DON'T FALL FOR IT. That is the only way they can change this country. Don't let them win.

Just be peaceful, contribute campaign dollars, and vote. In the end, that leaves them powerless.

(03-20-2019 02:20 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The flag bearers for the Democrats are now openly pondering dismantling whatever apparatus is necessary to change how the counting is done for who wins and who loses. "Lower the voting age to 16. Stack the SCOTUS ... double it in size if necessary. Abolish the electoral college and have direct democracy." These aren't "sitting on the counter top" solutions. You have to have rummaged through a lot of cabinets before looking back behind the stove to find that sort of stuff. It smells of desperation. It smells of the knowledge of an inability to pull together a coalition on anything of substance other than "not orange man." The Democratic Party of Bill Clinton is in shambles. White working class and union types are now completely out of the coalition. The union types especially like Trump directly on his policy "merits" as far as they're concerned. Tariffs on foreign competition in both the supply chain and end products on all things automotive? You just gave everybody from the UAW to United Steel Workers a semi. In terms of Latino voters, their immigration policy, if you have to paint them with a broad and imperfect brush, is "after our family is over, shut 'er down." And while first generation Latino immigrants are liberals ... they spawn second generation conservatives. This also isn't a stable base of the currently constituted Democrat Party. Most of the rest of the core consists of factions too small to stand on their own (LGBT, single mothers, Hollywood, tenured academia, socialist).


The Republican Party is ousting most of its vanilla core and parts of the fiscal core to be replaced by Trumpian populists who don't just not care about free trade, but actively fight against.


So it feels like it's Progressives vs Populists ... and populists will win that fight handily if that's how things lock into place right now. But there's an awful lot of groups on the sideline with no home right now in either place:

Fiscal conservatives, Libertarians, Corporate/Fortune 100/Globalists, Pro-Life, Evangelical, Neoconservatives, Moderates, "Blue Dogs" ... I'm sure there are more.

A lot of these groups feel like they end up landing in the Trump camp right now because it's less icky than the far left progressives. But there's no real home for them right now at least.

if my options are trump and a far left progressive, I'll sit this one out. I refuse to vote for someone I dislike just because I dislike the other person more.

(03-20-2019 05:18 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 02:20 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The flag bearers for the Democrats are now openly pondering dismantling whatever apparatus is necessary to change how the counting is done for who wins and who loses. "Lower the voting age to 16. Stack the SCOTUS ... double it in size if necessary. Abolish the electoral college and have direct democracy." These aren't "sitting on the counter top" solutions. You have to have rummaged through a lot of cabinets before looking back behind the stove to find that sort of stuff. It smells of desperation. It smells of the knowledge of an inability to pull together a coalition on anything of substance other than "not orange man." The Democratic Party of Bill Clinton is in shambles. White working class and union types are now completely out of the coalition. The union types especially like Trump directly on his policy "merits" as far as they're concerned. Tariffs on foreign competition in both the supply chain and end products on all things automotive? You just gave everybody from the UAW to United Steel Workers a semi. In terms of Latino voters, their immigration policy, if you have to paint them with a broad and imperfect brush, is "after our family is over, shut 'er down." And while first generation Latino immigrants are liberals ... they spawn second generation conservatives. This also isn't a stable base of the currently constituted Democrat Party. Most of the rest of the core consists of factions too small to stand on their own (LGBT, single mothers, Hollywood, tenured academia, socialist).


The Republican Party is ousting most of its vanilla core and parts of the fiscal core to be replaced by Trumpian populists who don't just not care about free trade, but actively fight against.


So it feels like it's Progressives vs Populists ... and populists will win that fight handily if that's how things lock into place right now. But there's an awful lot of groups on the sideline with no home right now in either place:

Fiscal conservatives, Libertarians, Corporate/Fortune 100/Globalists, Pro-Life, Evangelical, Neoconservatives, Moderates, "Blue Dogs" ... I'm sure there are more.

A lot of these groups feel like they end up landing in the Trump camp right now because it's less icky than the far left progressives. But there's no real home for them right now at least.

if my options are trump and a far left progressive, I'll sit this one out. I refuse to vote for someone I dislike just because I dislike the other person more.

Same here.

FTR, I was with Claw until he got to the coming civil war. I dont think there's going to be one. The citizens are too fat, lazy, hooked on their reality TV and fast food, stupid, and pacified to give it up. It's Wall-E. Only the truly committed will ever show up to fight. So really just the far right that live on compounds in Idaho, NC, and Texas.

A long ways to go to the finish line, but how Beto and Biden are doing in polls makes me think Democrats will shy away from people like Warren and Sanders. Beto is of course an even more empty suit than Obama was and Biden is a goofball, but they aren't in league with the left-wing tea party.
Both of them have a much better chance at beating Trump than the rest if the Democrat peanut gallery.

What Trump has in his favor is that the media and crazy leftists will do all they can to remind people of why they voted Trump in the first place.

(03-20-2019 05:18 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 02:20 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The flag bearers for the Democrats are now openly pondering dismantling whatever apparatus is necessary to change how the counting is done for who wins and who loses. "Lower the voting age to 16. Stack the SCOTUS ... double it in size if necessary. Abolish the electoral college and have direct democracy." These aren't "sitting on the counter top" solutions. You have to have rummaged through a lot of cabinets before looking back behind the stove to find that sort of stuff. It smells of desperation. It smells of the knowledge of an inability to pull together a coalition on anything of substance other than "not orange man." The Democratic Party of Bill Clinton is in shambles. White working class and union types are now completely out of the coalition. The union types especially like Trump directly on his policy "merits" as far as they're concerned. Tariffs on foreign competition in both the supply chain and end products on all things automotive? You just gave everybody from the UAW to United Steel Workers a semi. In terms of Latino voters, their immigration policy, if you have to paint them with a broad and imperfect brush, is "after our family is over, shut 'er down." And while first generation Latino immigrants are liberals ... they spawn second generation conservatives. This also isn't a stable base of the currently constituted Democrat Party. Most of the rest of the core consists of factions too small to stand on their own (LGBT, single mothers, Hollywood, tenured academia, socialist).
The Republican Party is ousting most of its vanilla core and parts of the fiscal core to be replaced by Trumpian populists who don't just not care about free trade, but actively fight against.
So it feels like it's Progressives vs Populists ... and populists will win that fight handily if that's how things lock into place right now. But there's an awful lot of groups on the sideline with no home right now in either place:
Fiscal conservatives, Libertarians, Corporate/Fortune 100/Globalists, Pro-Life, Evangelical, Neoconservatives, Moderates, "Blue Dogs" ... I'm sure there are more.
A lot of these groups feel like they end up landing in the Trump camp right now because it's less icky than the far left progressives. But there's no real home for them right now at least.

if my options are trump and a far left progressive, I'll sit this one out. I refuse to vote for someone I dislike just because I dislike the other person more.

I don't have a real home. But I'll definitely vote for someone I dislike over someone that scares me. And many of the democrats' ideas I find very scary to contemplate. As a 71-year-old cancer survivor, single payer health care strikes me as a death sentence. .Right now there's no democrat that I don't dislike more that Trump. Hillary comes closest. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I would rather have someone that I don't like but loves to work in my team anytime. Why would I want someone who is loved by everyone but is lazier than Rip Van Winkle? I didn't like Trump at first because of his brashness but it all changed when I discovered that he truly wants to better our country than have some smooth talking liar whose only aim was Change but not the kind I desired. He wanted Change alright but that change was what those Dum S'es who call themselves Demoncraps today want. Oblunder was the preliminary fighter to todays Socialists. He openly started the whole crazy mindset of what they call the beautiful communist agenda. Oblunder was a smarter, more wicked sort of OAF, er, OAC.

(03-20-2019 03:13 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  Let’s just start over and make rules that everybody can get down with. Weed, gay marriage, prostitution legal. Speed limits, automatic weapons and racism illegal.

You want to make opinions, "illegal"?

Given a choice between someone I dislike and a socialist/communist/collectivist, I don't dislike him that badly.

(03-20-2019 11:09 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Given a choice between someone I dislike and a socialist/communist/collectivist, I don't dislike him that badly.

We'd all be better off if Trump would switch to Vito Corleone mode. You know, "Never tell them what you are thinking!" I am well versed in what kind of mole McCain was. He spent 5 years with my uncle in Hanoi. He ratted out the grass roots movement of the Republican party by not voting to rescind Obamacare and it was all because of his life of privilege and his corporate connections. But he's dead. Just shut up about him. If the public finds out he's behind the dossier so be it. His image will tarnish in their minds. But Americans think it is out of bounds to criticize the dead. Let history deal with McCain once we have historians that actually dig for the truth instead of trying to twist history into a justification for the future.

Trump is right 90% of the time. He's accomplished some great things for us. Just shut up already and somebody get rid of his damned cell phone and close his twitter account.

In American politics we vote for ideas, wrong or right it's the image of our future that turns the voters on. Having a great vision gets you elected. Trump has the vision part down in spades. He's going to/has hurt his message by not knowing when to keep his mouth shut, and when to brush off his opposition. Retaliating in a verbal war isn't helping to accomplish his agenda.

I'm all for him going after his enemies, but do it stealthily and let those below you leak the dirty details to those who will trumpet them. Use the power of the office to stay above the fray so the message stays on point.

Johnny Isakson is a Dixiecrat hiding in the Republican party. He had an excuse to come out today. He's a jerk. There's plenty on somebody like that. Leverage him. But don't give the putz a public platform. As for the Dirty Dozen find their dirt and leak them out of office. They are all firmly in the corporate globalization camp anyway. You don't trash them, you let others do it for you.

Trumps Achilles heel is that he enjoys going after his foes. He's got to learn that the best political hit in the world is the one that can't be traced back to him.

(03-20-2019 04:32 PM)Claw Wrote:  My thoughts on this are much less mainstream.

The left doesn't care how they destroy the Republic. They just want it removed and replaced with some brand or another of totalitarianism. They want to see world government. The current U.S. system will never fit in there. It has to be removed.

I'm pretty confused by a lot in this post. So the Republicans are the defenders of Constitutional norms and structure against the Democrats? Are you seeing Trump as one of those defenders?

(03-20-2019 04:32 PM)Claw Wrote:  The Obama era push failed early on to actually change the country legislatively. The push back against Obamacare made it quite clear Americans were not going to vote themselves into socialism.

Obamacare isn't socialist, it was originally created by Romney and Republican think tanks as a free-market solution to health care. That's a big part of the reason why he used that model. When Obama pushed it, Republicans turned against the idea and have been promising a great healthcare strategy ever since.

While Obamacare was initially unpopular, it has become much more popular. So much so that Republicans couldn't vote it out even when they held both sides of Congress. It was also a large part of the messaging for the 2016 midterm, with a lot of Republicans adopting Obamacare language as their own to keep up.

(03-20-2019 04:32 PM)Claw Wrote:  What do they do then? They try to pick a fight. They have been trying for the last six years to get the old white guys riled up enough to start shooting people. When they don't get enough they fake it. Thus all the faked right-wing attacks. Their goal is to start the civil war many of us believe is coming. DON'T FALL FOR IT. That is the only way they can change this country. Don't let them win.

The Democrats are trying to stir up mass shootings by pushing gun restrictions for the mentally ill?

(03-20-2019 04:32 PM)Claw Wrote:  Just be peaceful, contribute campaign dollars, and vote. In the end, that leaves them powerless.

Agreed.

(03-20-2019 02:43 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 02:20 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The flag bearers for the Democrats are now openly pondering dismantling whatever apparatus is necessary to change how the counting is done for who wins and who loses. "Lower the voting age to 16. Stack the SCOTUS ... double it in size if necessary. Abolish the electoral college and have direct democracy." These aren't "sitting on the counter top" solutions. You have to have rummaged through a lot of cabinets before looking back behind the stove to find that sort of stuff. It smells of desperation. It smells of the knowledge of an inability to pull together a coalition on anything of substance other than "not orange man." The Democratic Party of Bill Clinton is in shambles. White working class and union types are now completely out of the coalition. The union types especially like Trump directly on his policy "merits" as far as they're concerned. Tariffs on foreign competition in both the supply chain and end products on all things automotive? You just gave everybody from the UAW to United Steel Workers a semi. In terms of Latino voters, their immigration policy, if you have to paint them with a broad and imperfect brush, is "after our family is over, shut 'er down." And while first generation Latino immigrants are liberals ... they spawn second generation conservatives. This also isn't a stable base of the currently constituted Democrat Party. Most of the rest of the core consists of factions too small to stand on their own (LGBT, single mothers, Hollywood, tenured academia, socialist).


The Republican Party is ousting most of its vanilla core and parts of the fiscal core to be replaced by Trumpian populists who don't just not care about free trade, but actively fight against.


So it feels like it's Progressives vs Populists ... and populists will win that fight handily if that's how things lock into place right now. But there's an awful lot of groups on the sideline with no home right now in either place:

Fiscal conservatives, Libertarians, Corporate/Fortune 100/Globalists, Pro-Life, Evangelical, Neoconservatives, Moderates, "Blue Dogs" ... I'm sure there are more.

A lot of these groups feel like they end up landing in the Trump camp right now because it's less icky than the far left progressives. But there's no real home for them right now at least.

Excellent insight.

You're the primary mod, right? So I just got my brownie points.

Seriously, though...

As a fiscal and social, pro-life, Evangelical conservative I get your point.

I've supported Cruz for quite a while because he's the best fit to date for who I am as a voter. I supported Trump for a few reasons:

1. He's not an Establishment Politician. And that moniker applies to both Dems and RINOs.
2. He's pro-America and America First.
   

As far as where voters like me might find a home, I seriously doubt the Democrats will ever look to entice me to their camp. I do think a GOP which returns to its original core will suit me well.

You forgot their new desire to abolish the senate.

(03-20-2019 04:28 PM)swagsurfer11 Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 03:47 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  People don't understand the need for the electoral college, or the reason why the founding fathers created it, because it isn't taught to them anymore.

The President would be chosen by California & New York. The people in the "fly-over" states would no longer matter. Candidates would campaign in the Northeast, California, Seattle, Texas, and MAYBE Florida.

It would be a disaster.

They don’t matter.

If REAL PEOPLE choose not to live there then why should those places be more important?

And here it is folks, liberal logic stupidity on full display.

(03-20-2019 05:18 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 02:20 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The flag bearers for the Democrats are now openly pondering dismantling whatever apparatus is necessary to change how the counting is done for who wins and who loses. "Lower the voting age to 16. Stack the SCOTUS ... double it in size if necessary. Abolish the electoral college and have direct democracy." These aren't "sitting on the counter top" solutions. You have to have rummaged through a lot of cabinets before looking back behind the stove to find that sort of stuff. It smells of desperation. It smells of the knowledge of an inability to pull together a coalition on anything of substance other than "not orange man." The Democratic Party of Bill Clinton is in shambles. White working class and union types are now completely out of the coalition. The union types especially like Trump directly on his policy "merits" as far as they're concerned. Tariffs on foreign competition in both the supply chain and end products on all things automotive? You just gave everybody from the UAW to United Steel Workers a semi. In terms of Latino voters, their immigration policy, if you have to paint them with a broad and imperfect brush, is "after our family is over, shut 'er down." And while first generation Latino immigrants are liberals ... they spawn second generation conservatives. This also isn't a stable base of the currently constituted Democrat Party. Most of the rest of the core consists of factions too small to stand on their own (LGBT, single mothers, Hollywood, tenured academia, socialist).


The Republican Party is ousting most of its vanilla core and parts of the fiscal core to be replaced by Trumpian populists who don't just not care about free trade, but actively fight against.


So it feels like it's Progressives vs Populists ... and populists will win that fight handily if that's how things lock into place right now. But there's an awful lot of groups on the sideline with no home right now in either place:

Fiscal conservatives, Libertarians, Corporate/Fortune 100/Globalists, Pro-Life, Evangelical, Neoconservatives, Moderates, "Blue Dogs" ... I'm sure there are more.

A lot of these groups feel like they end up landing in the Trump camp right now because it's less icky than the far left progressives. But there's no real home for them right now at least.

if my options are trump and a far left progressive, I'll sit this one out. I refuse to vote for someone I dislike just because I dislike the other person more.

I bet you didn't attend class when you didn't like your teacher. I bet you didn't do business with the convenience store closest to your house because you didn't like the clerk, did you refuse to pay your electric bill because the person who sent it out is a biatch? Sitting this one out is an option, for wusses. If we end up with a radical progressive in office I'm blaming you.

(03-20-2019 05:28 PM)king king Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 05:18 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 02:20 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The flag bearers for the Democrats are now openly pondering dismantling whatever apparatus is necessary to change how the counting is done for who wins and who loses. "Lower the voting age to 16. Stack the SCOTUS ... double it in size if necessary. Abolish the electoral college and have direct democracy." These aren't "sitting on the counter top" solutions. You have to have rummaged through a lot of cabinets before looking back behind the stove to find that sort of stuff. It smells of desperation. It smells of the knowledge of an inability to pull together a coalition on anything of substance other than "not orange man." The Democratic Party of Bill Clinton is in shambles. White working class and union types are now completely out of the coalition. The union types especially like Trump directly on his policy "merits" as far as they're concerned. Tariffs on foreign competition in both the supply chain and end products on all things automotive? You just gave everybody from the UAW to United Steel Workers a semi. In terms of Latino voters, their immigration policy, if you have to paint them with a broad and imperfect brush, is "after our family is over, shut 'er down." And while first generation Latino immigrants are liberals ... they spawn second generation conservatives. This also isn't a stable base of the currently constituted Democrat Party. Most of the rest of the core consists of factions too small to stand on their own (LGBT, single mothers, Hollywood, tenured academia, socialist).


The Republican Party is ousting most of its vanilla core and parts of the fiscal core to be replaced by Trumpian populists who don't just not care about free trade, but actively fight against.


So it feels like it's Progressives vs Populists ... and populists will win that fight handily if that's how things lock into place right now. But there's an awful lot of groups on the sideline with no home right now in either place:

Fiscal conservatives, Libertarians, Corporate/Fortune 100/Globalists, Pro-Life, Evangelical, Neoconservatives, Moderates, "Blue Dogs" ... I'm sure there are more.

A lot of these groups feel like they end up landing in the Trump camp right now because it's less icky than the far left progressives. But there's no real home for them right now at least.

if my options are trump and a far left progressive, I'll sit this one out. I refuse to vote for someone I dislike just because I dislike the other person more.

Same here.

FTR, I was with Claw until he got to the coming civil war. I dont think there's going to be one. The citizens are too fat, lazy, hooked on their reality TV and fast food, stupid, and pacified to give it up. It's Wall-E. Only the truly committed will ever show up to fight. So really just the far right that live on compounds in Idaho, NC, and Texas.

I think you under-estimate that element. They don't just live in Idaho, NC and Texas and they have plenty of sympathy. I'm no far right radical, do you think I'll sit it out if it ever does happen? (Provided it happens in the next 2-3 years, after that I'll have to do my shooting from a wheel chair or from behind a walker - which reminds me, prepare me a room at your house for when I have to come live with you and try to remember how to change a diaper)