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Jeff Jones Appreciation Thread
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Razor Ramon Monarch Offline
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Post: #241
RE: Jeff Jones Appreciation Thread
(12-05-2019 12:48 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 12:36 PM)VB Monarch Wrote:  No inside game, no offense, no FT shooters and no 3 pt shooters, The perception that kids should be better shooters than they are type same old same old. Most years a decent but entirely boring defense.

So is your point that you care more about style of play than results? Not saying I disagree with the desire to see more fun, but your point is related to how the teams plays, not whether they win or lose.

Lol what results???

1 ncaa tourney and 1 CUSA championship in 8 years is the ONLY result that matters and he’s failing.
12-05-2019 09:13 PM
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Razor Ramon Monarch Offline
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Post: #242
RE: Jeff Jones Appreciation Thread
(12-05-2019 09:04 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 09:02 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 08:44 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  They have had what 5 or 6 coaches ever?

The answer would be Jeff Capel.
1 NCAA tournament in, what, 5 years. He shouldn't have been fired by this board's standards for JJ.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

I dont judge based solely on ncaa tourney appearances

He still accomplished more than JJ in a shorter amount of time. Period.
12-05-2019 09:14 PM
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ODU BBALL Offline
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Post: #243
RE: Jeff Jones Appreciation Thread
(12-05-2019 08:44 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  They have had what 5 or 6 coaches ever?

The answer would be Jeff Capel.

My personal ranking of ODU's 6 Division I coaches would be as follows:

1). Paul Webb - 9 seasons (3 as an independent), 1 conference championship, 3 NCAA Tournaments. NOTE: 4 seniors returned from his team and played on Tom Young's team the year after Webb retired. They advanced to the NCAA Tournament 2nd round. They defeated West Virginia in the 1st round then lost in the 2nd round to Duke in Greensboro, NC.

2). Blaine Taylor - 12 seasons, 2 conference championships, 1 NIT (Final Four), 4 NCAA Tournaments (2nd round once). Note: Charismatic, solid recruiter, and other than his last season - consistent winner.

3). Oliver Pernell - 3 seasons, 2 times tied for 1st in conference, 2 NITs (2nd round both times), 1 NCAA Tournament. NOTE: Would probably have rated him higher if he had more than just 3 seasons as ODU's coach. Can't find much not to like with the success he had at ODU as both a player and a coach.

4). Jeff Capel - 7 seasons, 2 conference championships, 1 NIT, 2 NCAA Tournaments (2nd round once). NOTE: Several players recruited by Purnell returned the season after he left to play for Capel and led that team to a 1st round NCAA Tournament win in 3OT against Big East Champion Villanova. Lost in the 2nd round to Tulsa. Good person and good coach. Probably a better all around coach than some give him credit for being. Had to overcome losing star player Odell Hodge early into his first season and still coached the team to the 2nd round of the NCAA Tourney.

5). Jeff Jones - 6 seasons, 1 conference championship, 1 NIT (Final Four), 1 NCAA Tournament. NOTE: Does not count games played this season. Good defensive coach. Gets the nod over Young because of his better overall record at ODU.

6). Tom Young - 6 seasons, 1 NIT, 1 NCAA (2nd round).
12-06-2019 01:45 AM
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VB Monarch Offline
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Post: #244
RE: Jeff Jones Appreciation Thread
No argument about the order for D-1 coaches, but Sonny Allen could arguably have been the best of all. Believe he invented (or at least perfected the fast break) won national D-2 championship. Very exciting brand of ball, fans loved it.
12-06-2019 07:00 AM
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ODU BBALL Offline
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Post: #245
RE: Jeff Jones Appreciation Thread
(12-06-2019 07:00 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  No argument about the order for D-1 coaches, but Sonny Allen could arguably have been the best of all. Believe he invented (or at least perfected the fast break) won national D-2 championship. Very exciting brand of ball, fans loved it.

He did indeed do all of the things that you mentioned. I loved watching many of those teams of his play and have fond memories of several of his players, including (but not limited to) guys like Twardzik, Copeland, Washington, Fuhrmann, Ollie, Michaleson, Caruthers, Eubank, Roundtree, Nau, St. Claire, etc. I believe it was so unique that Sonny even wrote a book about his fast break. His style was studied, copied, and tweaked a bit by Coach Paul Westhead who had tremendous success (and a very high powered offense) using it at LMU from 1988-1990.

As I am sure you are aware, I had to limit this one to ODU's D1 coaches or he surely would have been high on the list.
12-06-2019 07:39 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #246
RE: Jeff Jones Appreciation Thread
Though Capel had that one team that beat Villanova, I would put Jones over Capel due to the overall stability (at least up to now). Most of Capel's success came early with Purnell's recruits then it began to unravel. Believe he had 1 NIT year later on amid several below .500 seasons. Now if Jones doesn't turn this team around and next year is a bust, I am open to changing my mind. Also, Blaine Taylor won 3 CAA championships, not 2. Only one of his NCAAs was an at-large bid. I'm not old enough to remember Webb so I am not going to rank him, but looking at Wiki, it appears he had a couple of great years and a bunch of NIT/NCAA bids with mediocre records (weak conference)? At least with what I have personally seen, Blaine had the best teams and if it weren't for his personal demons, he would have something named after him on campus.
12-06-2019 08:57 AM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #247
RE: Jeff Jones Appreciation Thread
Really like the Capel family but he won 56% of games at ODU and had 3 losing seasons after inheriting one of the better ODU teams in history.

Jones has won 66% of games and has had zero losing seasons despite taking over a team that had 5 wins the year prior.
12-06-2019 09:10 AM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #248
RE: Jeff Jones Appreciation Thread
(12-06-2019 01:45 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 08:44 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  They have had what 5 or 6 coaches ever?

The answer would be Jeff Capel.

My personal ranking of ODU's 6 Division I coaches would be as follows:

1). Paul Webb - 9 seasons (3 as an independent), 1 conference championship, 3 NCAA Tournaments. NOTE: 4 seniors returned from his team and played on Tom Young's team the year after Webb retired. They advanced to the NCAA Tournament 2nd round. They defeated West Virginia in the 1st round then lost in the 2nd round to Duke in Greensboro, NC.

2). Blaine Taylor - 12 seasons, 2 conference championships, 1 NIT (Final Four), 4 NCAA Tournaments (2nd round once). Note: Charismatic, solid recruiter, and other than his last season - consistent winner.

3). Oliver Pernell - 3 seasons, 2 times tied for 1st in conference, 2 NITs (2nd round both times), 1 NCAA Tournament. NOTE: Would probably have rated him higher if he had more than just 3 seasons as ODU's coach. Can't find much not to like with the success he had at ODU as both a player and a coach.

4). Jeff Capel - 7 seasons, 2 conference championships, 1 NIT, 2 NCAA Tournaments (2nd round once). NOTE: Several players recruited by Purnell returned the season after he left to play for Capel and led that team to a 1st round NCAA Tournament win in 3OT against Big East Champion Villanova. Lost in the 2nd round to Tulsa. Good person and good coach. Probably a better all around coach than some give him credit for being. Had to overcome losing star player Odell Hodge early into his first season and still coached the team to the 2nd round of the NCAA Tourney.

5). Jeff Jones - 6 seasons, 1 conference championship, 1 NIT (Final Four), 1 NCAA Tournament. NOTE: Does not count games played this season. Good defensive coach. Gets the nod over Young because of his better overall record at ODU.

6). Tom Young - 6 seasons, 1 NIT, 1 NCAA (2nd round).

I agree with this order, but would like to note that Tom Young, who is universally considered a failure, has nearly the exact same resume as JJ, but does have a win in the NCAAT.
12-06-2019 09:16 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #249
RE: Jeff Jones Appreciation Thread
(12-06-2019 01:45 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(12-05-2019 08:44 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  They have had what 5 or 6 coaches ever?

The answer would be Jeff Capel.

My personal ranking of ODU's 6 Division I coaches would be as follows:

1). Paul Webb - 9 seasons (3 as an independent), 1 conference championship, 3 NCAA Tournaments. NOTE: 4 seniors returned from his team and played on Tom Young's team the year after Webb retired. They advanced to the NCAA Tournament 2nd round. They defeated West Virginia in the 1st round then lost in the 2nd round to Duke in Greensboro, NC.

2). Blaine Taylor - 12 seasons, 2 conference championships, 1 NIT (Final Four), 4 NCAA Tournaments (2nd round once). Note: Charismatic, solid recruiter, and other than his last season - consistent winner.

3). Oliver Pernell - 3 seasons, 2 times tied for 1st in conference, 2 NITs (2nd round both times), 1 NCAA Tournament. NOTE: Would probably have rated him higher if he had more than just 3 seasons as ODU's coach. Can't find much not to like with the success he had at ODU as both a player and a coach.

4). Jeff Capel - 7 seasons, 2 conference championships, 1 NIT, 2 NCAA Tournaments (2nd round once). NOTE: Several players recruited by Purnell returned the season after he left to play for Capel and led that team to a 1st round NCAA Tournament win in 3OT against Big East Champion Villanova. Lost in the 2nd round to Tulsa. Good person and good coach. Probably a better all around coach than some give him credit for being. Had to overcome losing star player Odell Hodge early into his first season and still coached the team to the 2nd round of the NCAA Tourney.

5). Jeff Jones - 6 seasons, 1 conference championship, 1 NIT (Final Four), 1 NCAA Tournament. NOTE: Does not count games played this season. Good defensive coach. Gets the nod over Young because of his better overall record at ODU.

6). Tom Young - 6 seasons, 1 NIT, 1 NCAA (2nd round).

I agree with your rankings at the moment. If JJ doesnt get back to the NCAAs in the next couple of years, I'd probably swap him and Young. The other thing to consider is Capel did a lot with Purnell's recruits. His own guys never lived up to the hype IMO. So basically, Webb, Taylor, Purnell were great and Capel, Jones, Young are/were average or below. Jones is still our guy so can rise or fall on the list. If he wins CUSA in the next two years he'd leapfrog Capel for example.
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2019 09:26 AM by monarx.)
12-06-2019 09:24 AM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #250
RE: Jeff Jones Appreciation Thread
(12-06-2019 09:10 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Really like the Capel family but he won 56% of games at ODU and had 3 losing seasons after inheriting one of the better ODU teams in history.

Jones has won 66% of games and has had zero losing seasons despite taking over a team that had 5 wins the year prior.

Times have changed. W/L record comparisons are not representative. 20 win seasons are almost a given in non P5 leagues as long as you are not terrible with the increased number of games on the schedule. Scheduling is also different, the increased number of non conference games adds more bad teams to the schedule, and the 18 game conference schedule against what is easily the worst group of conference mates we have ever had adds to the win totals as well. At our level success is measured by NCAAT bids, Conference Championships, and NCAAT wins.
12-06-2019 09:38 AM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #251
RE: Jeff Jones Appreciation Thread
(12-06-2019 09:38 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 09:10 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Really like the Capel family but he won 56% of games at ODU and had 3 losing seasons after inheriting one of the better ODU teams in history.

Jones has won 66% of games and has had zero losing seasons despite taking over a team that had 5 wins the year prior.

Times have changed. W/L record comparisons are not representative. 20 win seasons are almost a given in non P5 leagues as long as you are not terrible with the increased number of games on the schedule. Scheduling is also different, the increased number of non conference games adds more bad teams to the schedule, and the 18 game conference schedule against what is easily the worst group of conference mates we have ever had adds to the win totals as well. At our level success is measured by NCAAT bids, Conference Championships, and NCAAT wins.

Win percentage by itself certainly does not, but its an enormous gap between the two.
12-06-2019 10:09 AM
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ODU BBALL Offline
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Post: #252
RE: Jeff Jones Appreciation Thread
(12-06-2019 08:57 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Though Capel had that one team that beat Villanova, I would put Jones over Capel due to the overall stability (at least up to now). Most of Capel's success came early with Purnell's recruits then it began to unravel. Believe he had 1 NIT year later on amid several below .500 seasons. Now if Jones doesn't turn this team around and next year is a bust, I am open to changing my mind. Also, Blaine Taylor won 3 CAA championships, not 2. Only one of his NCAAs was an at-large bid. I'm not old enough to remember Webb so I am not going to rank him, but looking at Wiki, it appears he had a couple of great years and a bunch of NIT/NCAA bids with mediocre records (weak conference)? At least with what I have personally seen, Blaine had the best teams and if it weren't for his personal demons, he would have something named after him on campus.

Blaine won 2 Regular Season Championships (2005 & 2010), and continued on by winning the Conference Tournament in both seasons. In 2011 George Mason won the Regular Season Championship, and ODU won the Conference Tournament (over VCU). My listing of Conference Championships is a meant to be a listing of winning the Regular Season vice winning the Conference Tournament.

Paul Webb's teams had to compete against some very strong teams during his tenure at ODU. Early on he was competing against teams like Georgetown and Syracuse in the ECAC. I was at the game when the Monarchs put an 80-58 beat down on John Thompson's Georgetown team at McDonough Gym in the 1977 Tourney, only to lose by 3 to 13th ranked Syracuse in the Tourney Final played at the ODU Field House. During Webb's last 3 or 4 seasons ODU competed in the Sun Belt which was a very strong league at the time (UAB, Charlotte, VCU, ODU, WKU, South Florida, Jacksonville, South Alabama). It was a league that got some at large NCAA Tournament bids.

Not being defensive of how I ranked the coaches as everyone is entitled to their own opinions and in 2 or 3 instances there are compelling arguments to make swaps among how I chose to list them. I had to battle those same thoughts myself before settling on my own listing order.

EDIT: I actually thought that I remembered the ODU - Georgetown match up in the Conference Tournament was played in Richmond, but looking it up it said it was in DC so that is how I listed it. I guess 40+ years in the past will at times fog up the memory.
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2019 12:41 PM by ODU BBALL.)
12-06-2019 11:41 AM
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