(03-14-2019 04:35 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(03-14-2019 02:54 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Tangentially related but Wade has his latest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT-pGCuKFf0

I'm sorry I took the time to watch the whole thing. I'm going to go buy some new tinfoil and make a better hat now.

Not generally a fan of Wade's post-Rice tirades, but one could certainly wonder the level of fraud that could exist in the documentation of foreign nationals in terms of their grades and other qualifications etc. This avenue is ripe for abuse, since they are , at least to some extent, buying their way in( by paying full freight

(03-15-2019 11:50 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-15-2019 05:44 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Cmon people -- Rice as an institution sees the writing on the wall.

China is an ascendant power with a potential of eclipsing the US in the next generation (assuming it can mitigate a whole swarm of social and economic issues). It makes absolute sense to 'recruit' in that pool for future's sake. To be blunt, everyone is.

The same reason I bought crappy houses in Montrose in the late '80's.

I actually think it has less to do with recruiting, and more to do with mining tuition dollars. One of the issues in academia regarding international students is that they graduate from American universities and then take the knowledge back home.

Rice sees a huge market of people willing to pay full tuition to help subsidize other students.

I guess the Rice Initiative will not extend to foreign nationals. Or will the China rate plummet if it does, according to your belief?

Second, do you have any stats on 'who pays what' at Rice? I certainly cant find any. Or are you assuming that Chinese pay full fare more than any other segment.

If 'paying full fare' is the goal, it seems to me that there are probably a whole raft of other 'economies' to mine as well as China for such a bevy of 'full fare passengers'. The issue is a concentration on *China* --- Chinese nationals are not the only the nationality as whole that can go 'full fare'.

The population of 'full fare' potentials is literally global -- one would surmise a 'more healthy' proportion of Saudis or Kuwaitis if that were the goal, as a first blush example. Or, even easier, hit the very-well-to-do (meaning *extremely well-to-do) in Mexico City --- at the time I was at Rice there was an, even then, very high proportion of Chilangos in that group there then.

I am not doubting there is a 'fixation' on China and Chinese students. But 'paying full fare' really doesnt go a long way to explain that fixation given the wealth distributions in the globe and the already in place inroads that Rice has or had developed in some such 'wealth concentrated' areas.

(03-16-2019 01:23 AM)HawaiiOwl Wrote:  

(03-14-2019 04:35 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(03-14-2019 02:54 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Tangentially related but Wade has his latest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT-pGCuKFf0

I'm sorry I took the time to watch the whole thing. I'm going to go buy some new tinfoil and make a better hat now.

Not generally a fan of Wade's post-Rice tirades, but one could certainly wonder the level of fraud that could exist in the documentation of foreign nationals in terms of their grades and other qualifications etc. This avenue is ripe for abuse, since they are , at least to some extent, buying their way in( by paying full freight

It is possible, but there is enough demand that there isnt a need to have to do this.

(03-16-2019 08:31 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(03-15-2019 11:50 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-15-2019 05:44 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Cmon people -- Rice as an institution sees the writing on the wall.

China is an ascendant power with a potential of eclipsing the US in the next generation (assuming it can mitigate a whole swarm of social and economic issues). It makes absolute sense to 'recruit' in that pool for future's sake. To be blunt, everyone is.

The same reason I bought crappy houses in Montrose in the late '80's.

I actually think it has less to do with recruiting, and more to do with mining tuition dollars. One of the issues in academia regarding international students is that they graduate from American universities and then take the knowledge back home.

Rice sees a huge market of people willing to pay full tuition to help subsidize other students.

I guess the Rice Initiative will not extend to foreign nationals. Or will the China rate plummet if it does, according to your belief?

Second, do you have any stats on 'who pays what' at Rice? I certainly cant find any. Or are you assuming that Chinese pay full fare more than any other segment.

If 'paying full fare' is the goal, it seems to me that there are probably a whole raft of other 'economies' to mine as well as China for such a bevy of 'full fare passengers'. The issue is a concentration on *China* --- Chinese nationals are not the only the nationality as whole that can go 'full fare'.

The population of 'full fare' potentials is literally global -- one would surmise a 'more healthy' proportion of Saudis or Kuwaitis if that were the goal, as a first blush example. Or, even easier, hit the very-well-to-do (meaning *extremely well-to-do) in Mexico City --- at the time I was at Rice there was an, even then, very high proportion of Chilangos in that group there then.

I am not doubting there is a 'fixation' on China and Chinese students. But 'paying full fare' really doesnt go a long way to explain that fixation given the wealth distributions in the globe and the already in place inroads that Rice has or had developed in some such 'wealth concentrated' areas.

The Rice Investment will not apply to foreign nationals. See the FAQ: https://financialaid.rice.edu/rice-investment-faqs

My understanding has been (from talking to faculty and staff) that international students (not just Chinese students) rarely qualify for financial assistance and are almost always paying full fare tuition. China has a huge market of students who want to come to the US for university, and I think we are focusing on tapping that market because of its growth potential - I would imagine recruiting dollars go further in China than in CDMX.

This WSJ article provides some details on the total revenue international students bring in: http://graphics.wsj.com/international-students/

This article quotes an admin echoing my comments:

Quote:But campus administrators admit that foreign students are a revenue source they’ve come to count on. “International students definitely contribute to our financial strength and health,” says Renée Romano, vice chancellor of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. “In some ways, the international students are keeping this place open and keeping it strong.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.governi...html%3FAMP

I guess we could be strategizing at a higher level, but to me it, it just seems like we identified an exploding market and want to tap that market to get the best bang for our buck.

(03-16-2019 08:31 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I am not doubting there is a 'fixation' on China and Chinese students. But 'paying full fare' really doesnt go a long way to explain that fixation given the wealth distributions in the globe and the already in place inroads that Rice has or had developed in some such 'wealth concentrated' areas.

It is a function of outreach in a wealth concentrated area. Other schools have focused their outreach efforts differently. Rice has historically been a far more "regional" top university than our peers. As a result, Rice needed to tap into a market that wasn't an already established pipeline. The Saudi to US market is well established - heck, even Wright State has something like 5% Saudi (IIRC) population.

So yes, it is a mix of mining tuition dollars, in an expanding market that Rice has focused on.

(03-16-2019 08:33 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(03-16-2019 01:23 AM)HawaiiOwl Wrote:  

(03-14-2019 04:35 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(03-14-2019 02:54 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Tangentially related but Wade has his latest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT-pGCuKFf0

I'm sorry I took the time to watch the whole thing. I'm going to go buy some new tinfoil and make a better hat now.

Not generally a fan of Wade's post-Rice tirades, but one could certainly wonder the level of fraud that could exist in the documentation of foreign nationals in terms of their grades and other qualifications etc. This avenue is ripe for abuse, since they are , at least to some extent, buying their way in( by paying full freight

It is possible, but there is enough demand that there isnt a need to have to do this.

It is because of the demand that I feel is very plausible that some wealthy families overseas would falsify grades etc to make the student appear qualified for Rice or elsewhere . It would not require any malfeasance on the part of the university ( or individuals working there).

Thanks for the link in the Initiative.

'I think we are focusing on tapping that market because of its growth potential'

Yep, pretty much what I said. China is *the* ascendant power in the globe. I would not be surprised about fixating on where the global power structure may very well be shifting to. Many institutions have been doing this for the last decade with that shift ongoing.

To be blunt, I knew the development, admissions, and administration heirarchy on a first name basis at a private college located directly in the heart of Silicon Valley. The topic of shifting foreign recruitment focus to China *because* of the direction of the Chinese country in geopolitical terms was discussed quite openly. They felt the closer they could 'tie themselves' to the Chinese at a particular strata would be highly beneficial for the long term.

And, the benefits of those ties are much more strongly realized with private universities than can be obtained at state schools.

I would not be surprised if similar conversations are at the focus of a larger institution such as Rice. I do not have the same relationships at those levels at Rice as I did there, but, to not have that insight as an institution would be ver short sighted.

*If* Rice's endowment were not so absolutely ginoromous on a per student basis, the impact of 70 students at 70k might be an issue. But, bluntly speaking, with the numbers in play, 4.9 million (at the top end) is bird cage filler material in the large scope of things.

Those are not 'insider knowledge' in the slightest from Rice's perspective, and simply are my own thoughts on the issue of Chinese national students.

(03-16-2019 09:17 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Thanks for the link in the Initiative.

'I think we are focusing on tapping that market because of its growth potential'

Yep, pretty much what I said. China is *the* ascendant power in the globe. I would not be surprised about fixating on where the global power structure may very well be shifting to. Many institutions have been doing this for the last decade with that shift ongoing.

To be blunt, I knew the development, admissions, and administration heirarchy on a first name basis at a private college located directly in the heart of Silicon Valley. The topic of shifting foreign recruitment focus to China *because* of the direction of the Chinese country in geopolitical terms was discussed quite openly. They felt the closer they could 'tie themselves' to the Chinese at a particular strata would be highly beneficial for the long term.

And, the benefits of those ties are much more strongly realized with private universities than can be obtained at state schools.

I would not be surprised if similar conversations are at the focus of a larger institution such as Rice. I do not have the same relationships at those levels at Rice as I did there, but, to not have that insight as an institution would be ver short sighted.

*If* Rice's endowment were not so absolutely ginoromous on a per student basis, the impact of 70 students at 70k might be an issue. But, bluntly speaking, with the numbers in play, 4.9 million (at the top end) is bird cage filler material in the large scope of things.

Those are not 'insider knowledge' in the slightest from Rice's perspective, and simply are my own thoughts on the issue of Chinese national students.

You are underestimating the number of international Chinese students significantly. There were 455 undergrad international students in 2018 and China made up 252 of those. That’s around $17.5 MM dollars in revenue for the university, which is not insignificant in the slightest - that could fund an entire department, without having to use endowment earnings.

I took your original comment to mean what you were saying here - that rice was targeting China from a political perspective, and I was viewing it as a purely economic move. That if the same middle-class/upper-class growth with an interest in American higher education was occurring elsewhere, we would be targeting that area too.

Perhaps these ideas are intrinsically linked - the tying of a university to a political class and targeting high growth regions of the world.

(03-16-2019 10:20 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-16-2019 09:17 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Thanks for the link in the Initiative.

'I think we are focusing on tapping that market because of its growth potential'

Yep, pretty much what I said. China is *the* ascendant power in the globe. I would not be surprised about fixating on where the global power structure may very well be shifting to. Many institutions have been doing this for the last decade with that shift ongoing.

To be blunt, I knew the development, admissions, and administration heirarchy on a first name basis at a private college located directly in the heart of Silicon Valley. The topic of shifting foreign recruitment focus to China *because* of the direction of the Chinese country in geopolitical terms was discussed quite openly. They felt the closer they could 'tie themselves' to the Chinese at a particular strata would be highly beneficial for the long term.

And, the benefits of those ties are much more strongly realized with private universities than can be obtained at state schools.

I would not be surprised if similar conversations are at the focus of a larger institution such as Rice. I do not have the same relationships at those levels at Rice as I did there, but, to not have that insight as an institution would be ver short sighted.

*If* Rice's endowment were not so absolutely ginoromous on a per student basis, the impact of 70 students at 70k might be an issue. But, bluntly speaking, with the numbers in play, 4.9 million (at the top end) is bird cage filler material in the large scope of things.

Those are not 'insider knowledge' in the slightest from Rice's perspective, and simply are my own thoughts on the issue of Chinese national students.

You are underestimating the number of international Chinese students significantly. There were 455 undergrad international students in 2018 and China made up 252 of those. That’s around $17.5 MM dollars in revenue for the university, which is not insignificant in the slightest - that could fund an entire department, without having to use endowment earnings.

I took your original comment to mean what you were saying here - that rice was targeting China from a political perspective, and I was viewing it as a purely economic move. That if the same middle-class/upper-class growth with an interest in American higher education was occurring elsewhere, we would be targeting that area too.

Perhaps these ideas are intrinsically linked - the tying of a university to a political class and targeting high growth regions of the world.

I do think it's a bit funny to hear schools and administrators flattering themselves over increasing Chinese enrollment - like they strategized this grand plan first and went out and started beating the bushes in China to get kids. I mean, this situation is no different from Bay Area Ferrari dealers in the '80s vs. the '90s/'00s. Do we credit their turnaround of fortune for shrewdly deciding to market to the previously untapped 25-year-old software engineer cohort?

I'm also not sold on the "this will be lucrative for us in the long term" justification. My understanding is that alumni giving from the international cohort is practically nil. And eventually this gusher will run dry as they all do; Illinois has already seen Chinese applications fall off by 40+% this year over last. Doesn't mean I have a problem with taking money that's being thrown at us (although I do think it's a problem if you grow overly dependent on it, as Illinois has done) but let's not call it some sort of strategic masterstroke.

(03-15-2019 11:50 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-15-2019 05:44 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Cmon people -- Rice as an institution sees the writing on the wall.

China is an ascendant power with a potential of eclipsing the US in the next generation (assuming it can mitigate a whole swarm of social and economic issues). It makes absolute sense to 'recruit' in that pool for future's sake. To be blunt, everyone is.

The same reason I bought crappy houses in Montrose in the late '80's.

I actually think it has less to do with recruiting, and more to do with mining tuition dollars. One of the issues in academia regarding international students is that they graduate from American universities and then take the knowledge back home.

Rice sees a huge market of people willing to pay full tuition to help subsidize other students.

I really don't have a problem with that. It's when someone gets a degree in the US, works and lives here, and transfers proprietary information back to their home country, or when countries like China extort companies and force the transfer of intellectual property to the state that I have a real problem with.

(03-16-2019 12:56 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(03-15-2019 11:50 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-15-2019 05:44 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Cmon people -- Rice as an institution sees the writing on the wall.

China is an ascendant power with a potential of eclipsing the US in the next generation (assuming it can mitigate a whole swarm of social and economic issues). It makes absolute sense to 'recruit' in that pool for future's sake. To be blunt, everyone is.

The same reason I bought crappy houses in Montrose in the late '80's.

I actually think it has less to do with recruiting, and more to do with mining tuition dollars. One of the issues in academia regarding international students is that they graduate from American universities and then take the knowledge back home.

Rice sees a huge market of people willing to pay full tuition to help subsidize other students.

I really don't have a problem with that. It's when someone gets a degree in the US, works and lives here, and transfers proprietary information back to their home country, or when countries like China extort companies and force the transfer of intellectual property to the state that I have a real problem with.

Agree. I think the biggest concern in academia comes with graduate students who basically develop novel technologies or knowledge here and then take it back home with them. Educating undergrads that immediately return to their home country isn’t a huge concern to me.

These two young women were admitted to USC to be on their Crew Squad.



One look at them and you can tell they have never once been on a rowboat.

The Back Page of Today's Thresher has a good spoof of this scandal:
https://issuu.com/thresher/docs/190320thresh/12

(03-20-2019 10:37 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  The Back Page of Today's Thresher has a good spoof of this scandal:
https://issuu.com/thresher/docs/190320thresh/12

Bravo. Exceptional work.

(03-18-2019 09:12 AM)WoodlandsOwl Wrote:  These two young women were admitted to USC to be on their Crew Squad.



One look at them and you can tell they have never once been on a rowboat.

Party boat, maybe.

(03-20-2019 12:13 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(03-18-2019 09:12 AM)WoodlandsOwl Wrote:  These two young women were admitted to USC to be on their Crew Squad.
One look at them and you can tell they have never once been on a rowboat.

Party boat, maybe.

Party boat, literally.

Lori Loughlin's Daughter Olivia Leaves Yacht of USC's Board of Trustees Chairman | TMZ.com

Lori Loughlin's Daughter Olivia Leaves Yacht of USC's Board of Trustees Chairman | TMZ.com Wrote:As Lori Loughlin traveled from Vancouver to L.A. Tuesday night to surrender to federal authorities in the college bribery scandal -- which got her daughter, Olivia Jade, into USC -- Olivia spent the night on the yacht of the Chairman of USC's Board of Trustees ... but she's off the boat now, TMZ has learned.

(03-20-2019 10:37 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  The Back Page of Today's Thresher has a good spoof of this scandal:
https://issuu.com/thresher/docs/190320thresh/12

Cue exowlswimmer in 3..2..1...

Another head basketball coach bites the dust - Will Wade of LSU. I hope the LSU Women soccer coach was not involved.

http://www.wafb.com/2019/04/04/si-report...d-meeting/