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New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #41
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-13-2019 07:59 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  My general thoughts about this bill and the Alston ruling is that we are going to start seeing an even greater divide within the 65 member P5. The elite programs are going to be able to offer bigger financial incentives and the slushy booster money is going to be better at the higher profile schools.

At this point I think the 2 primary revenue sports, men's basketball and football, need to be split from the universities they represent and structured as 501c3 corporations. Calling these kids student athletes is a joke. Treat them like minor league athletes and include tuition as part of their compensation package. Also, having them play regular season games against schools that can't financially keep that pace. 1 preseason game against a non-P5, 12 regular season P5 games.

The funny thing is---this wont really make any difference between the G5 and P5. The school cant pay players under this rule. The buyers of the kids "name and likeness" will be coming from outside of the school. So, the school's actual athletic budget is irrelevant. The real measuring bar for a schools ability to "keep up" is having enough highly invested "high roller" fans willing to buy players for the school.
03-13-2019 08:16 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #42
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-13-2019 08:16 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-13-2019 07:59 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  My general thoughts about this bill and the Alston ruling is that we are going to start seeing an even greater divide within the 65 member P5. The elite programs are going to be able to offer bigger financial incentives and the slushy booster money is going to be better at the higher profile schools.

At this point I think the 2 primary revenue sports, men's basketball and football, need to be split from the universities they represent and structured as 501c3 corporations. Calling these kids student athletes is a joke. Treat them like minor league athletes and include tuition as part of their compensation package. Also, having them play regular season games against schools that can't financially keep that pace. 1 preseason game against a non-P5, 12 regular season P5 games.

The funny thing is---this wont really make any difference between the G5 and P5. The school cant pay players under this rule. The buyers of the kids "name and likeness" will be coming from outside of the school. So, the school's actual athletic budget is irrelevant. The real measuring bar for a schools ability to "keep up" is having enough highly invested "high roller" fans willing to buy players for the school.

That was my point. The G5 are already way behind it now the Alabama's and Ohio St's can get even further ahead of Duke and Washington St.
03-13-2019 08:20 PM
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puck swami Offline
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Post: #43
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
Seems to me there are some wasy to do this without losing the competitive balance.

Here are my two ideas:

1) Allow Student Athletes to make money from local businesses up to the value of their yearly scholarship. If they make more than the value of the scholarship, the athlete becomes a pro and loses his/her eligibility. That should give the SAs plenty of extra "walking around" money to buy clothes, pizza and beer without boosters going overboard and buying players.

2) Let athletes major in their varsity sports if they want to, just as music performers major in music. That will end much of the academic hypocrisy. Given them grades for their work ethic and sports performance, let them take other course work related to sports (doping prevention, coaching, communications, sports marketing, nutrition, etc.).
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2019 08:47 PM by puck swami.)
03-13-2019 08:46 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #44
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
If you do that? Get rid of all the scholarships and let them pay their way for an education.
03-13-2019 08:49 PM
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chester Offline
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Post: #45
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name & image
Good. I'm in favor of NCAA athletes (and everyone else on Earth) having the ability to profit from their NILs, so I'll be glad to see Congress take up the matter.

BTW, kudos to Washington state and California. Lawmakers from both have introduced bills that would ensure in-state college athletes that ability while prohibiting schools and organizations from denying the same. Here are a couple of committee hearings from Olympia, for those interested:

HB 1084 (00:00-43:00)
SB 5875 (15:00-40:00)

ETA and one from Sacramento:

HB 206 (0:43:00-1:15:00)
(This post was last modified: 04-03-2019 09:55 PM by chester.)
03-13-2019 11:59 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #46
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
College Athletes should be able to profit of their image, status, and ability. Everyone else already does.

If Bubbas Buicks in Alabama wants to pay the Alabama offensive line to come sign autographs and drum up business, they should be able to accept the offer. You don't have to pay them, but preventing them from making money is wrong
03-14-2019 04:22 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #47
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-14-2019 04:22 AM)solohawks Wrote:  College Athletes should be able to profit of their image, status, and ability. Everyone else already does.

If Bubbas Buicks in Alabama wants to pay the Alabama offensive line to come sign autographs and drum up business, they should be able to accept the offer. You don't have to pay them, but preventing them from making money is wrong


The athletes are already paid through scholarships. They are not employees, nor they are professional players. They are there for an education because they are not 100% guarantee to be a pro. They are there for an education. If they want to make money? Then they should skip college and flip burgers for a living. There are other kids who would take their place who do not care about the money.
03-14-2019 07:58 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #48
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-14-2019 07:58 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 04:22 AM)solohawks Wrote:  College Athletes should be able to profit of their image, status, and ability. Everyone else already does.

If Bubbas Buicks in Alabama wants to pay the Alabama offensive line to come sign autographs and drum up business, they should be able to accept the offer. You don't have to pay them, but preventing them from making money is wrong


The athletes are already paid through scholarships. They are not employees, nor they are professional players. They are there for an education because they are not 100% guarantee to be a pro. They are there for an education. If they want to make money? Then they should skip college and flip burgers for a living. There are other kids who would take their place who do not care about the money.

An employer doesnt prevent someone from making money off their own image. Again, you dont have yo pay them but you cannot punish them either
03-14-2019 11:02 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #49
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-13-2019 08:46 PM)puck swami Wrote:  Seems to me there are some wasy to do this without losing the competitive balance.

Here are my two ideas:

1) Allow Student Athletes to make money from local businesses up to the value of their yearly scholarship. If they make more than the value of the scholarship, the athlete becomes a pro and loses his/her eligibility. That should give the SAs plenty of extra "walking around" money to buy clothes, pizza and beer without boosters going overboard and buying players.

2) Let athletes major in their varsity sports if they want to, just as music performers major in music
. That will end much of the academic hypocrisy. Given them grades for their work ethic and sports performance, let them take other course work related to sports (doping prevention, coaching, communications, sports marketing, nutrition, etc.).

There are plenty of sports related careers besides playing professional sports. And many athletes, including some who do play professionally first, will wind up in these career fields. Why not have an Athletics Administration major, with courses available in Coaching, The Business of Sports, Public Speaking, Communications, Broadcasting, Parks and Recreation, NCAA Compliance, Agents and Contracts, among others. Are some schools too academically elitist to offer such a program?

Typically, students take most of the major courses toward the end of their 4 or 5 years as an undergraduate. But for the elite athletes likely to aspire to play professionally, they could benefit more by taking some of these classes early in their academic career. They can always take English Lit and other required courses later if their pro career doesn't work out for whatever reason.
03-14-2019 11:24 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #50
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-14-2019 11:02 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 07:58 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 04:22 AM)solohawks Wrote:  College Athletes should be able to profit of their image, status, and ability. Everyone else already does.

If Bubbas Buicks in Alabama wants to pay the Alabama offensive line to come sign autographs and drum up business, they should be able to accept the offer. You don't have to pay them, but preventing them from making money is wrong


The athletes are already paid through scholarships. They are not employees, nor they are professional players. They are there for an education because they are not 100% guarantee to be a pro. They are there for an education. If they want to make money? Then they should skip college and flip burgers for a living. There are other kids who would take their place who do not care about the money.

An employer doesnt prevent someone from making money off their own image. Again, you dont have yo pay them but you cannot punish them either

Plenty of employers dont want employees who moonlight elsewhere and policies against it. Its not illegal. If you want to work "X" company---then you only work for "X" company.

Another issue with name and likeness is that the name and likeness is probably worthless without the university stage. Additionally, name and likeness revenue for the efforts of the entire team will accrue to just a few members. The QB--a running back--perhaps a receiver or linebacker. I doubt the name and likeness money for a offensive lineman is significant. Id prefer for the "name and likeness" revenue to be pooled and distributed to the players equally. The star QB aint crap if the OL fails to block.

It might be easier if the NCAA operated as a clearing house for all those rights deals---that way it would be easier for organizations like EA Games to easily assemble the rights package needed to make NCAA sports games. The rights could be equally distributed across all the players in FBS or divided up to players on an individual conference or school basis.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2019 03:35 PM by Attackcoog.)
03-14-2019 03:34 PM
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Huskypride Offline
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Post: #51
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
i agree, these school make a ton of these kids. Its screwed up they can't even make money in their name.
03-14-2019 04:03 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #52
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-14-2019 03:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Another issue with name and likeness is that the name and likeness is probably worthless without the university stage. Additionally, name and likeness revenue for the efforts of the entire team will accrue to just a few members. The QB--a running back--perhaps a receiver or linebacker. I doubt the name and likeness money for a offensive lineman is significant. Id prefer for the "name and likeness" revenue to be pooled and distributed to the players equally. The star QB aint crap if the OL fails to block.

That's like saying that Tim Cook isn't worth anything without the efforts of everyone at Apple, therefore all of his salary, bonuses, and stock must be divided equally among every Apple employee and, for that matter, all of Apple's revenue must be pooled and distributed to the employees equally. Karl Marx would have loved that argument.
03-14-2019 06:29 PM
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puck swami Offline
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Post: #53
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
The challenge becomes this - What if a car dealership chain in Tuscaloosa offers a prospective U of Alabama QB a million dollars for appearing in a series of car commercials in Alabama?

Then, a dealer in Atlanta hears about the Alabama offer, and offers $1.5 million to the same QB prospect to appear for their Atlanta/Athens dealerships if the player commits to UGA instead of Alabama?

All of a sudden there is a bidding war among car dealerships to get a particular player, and the competitive balance is going to go to the highest bidders....
03-14-2019 07:46 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #54
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
Many schools do not have star QBs or players to begin with in college. The schools make money actually when the players became star players in the NFL which they get linked back to to the schools they played for. Drew Brees, Tom Brady and Peyton Manning were not that great QBs in college. It is usually players that won the Heisman who failed in the NFL. Brees, Brady and both Mannings were not that spectacular in college like they are/were in the NFL. Drew Bledsoe was not big in college as QB, but he was in the NFL.
The only exceptions that a star QB that did great in college football that great in the NFL are the ones in the G5 and FCS conferences.
Chad Pennington
Ben Roethlesberger
Carson Wentz
Joe Flaco
Those are just the few.
03-14-2019 09:27 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #55
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-14-2019 03:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 11:02 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 07:58 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 04:22 AM)solohawks Wrote:  College Athletes should be able to profit of their image, status, and ability. Everyone else already does.

If Bubbas Buicks in Alabama wants to pay the Alabama offensive line to come sign autographs and drum up business, they should be able to accept the offer. You don't have to pay them, but preventing them from making money is wrong


The athletes are already paid through scholarships. They are not employees, nor they are professional players. They are there for an education because they are not 100% guarantee to be a pro. They are there for an education. If they want to make money? Then they should skip college and flip burgers for a living. There are other kids who would take their place who do not care about the money.

An employer doesnt prevent someone from making money off their own image. Again, you dont have yo pay them but you cannot punish them either

Plenty of employers dont want employees who moonlight elsewhere and policies against it. Its not illegal. If you want to work "X" company---then you only work for "X" company.

Another issue with name and likeness is that the name and likeness is probably worthless without the university stage. Additionally, name and likeness revenue for the efforts of the entire team will accrue to just a few members. The QB--a running back--perhaps a receiver or linebacker. I doubt the name and likeness money for a offensive lineman is significant. Id prefer for the "name and likeness" revenue to be pooled and distributed to the players equally. The star QB aint crap if the OL fails to block.

It might be easier if the NCAA operated as a clearing house for all those rights deals---that way it would be easier for organizations like EA Games to easily assemble the rights package needed to make NCAA sports games. The rights could be equally distributed across all the players in FBS or divided up to players on an individual conference or school basis.

Making money off your likeness isnt moonlighting. Most names and likenesses are worthless without the university endorsement. Therefore the schools should allow it and take their cut
03-14-2019 10:50 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #56
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-14-2019 07:46 PM)puck swami Wrote:  The challenge becomes this - What if a car dealership chain in Tuscaloosa offers a prospective U of Alabama QB a million dollars for appearing in a series of car commercials in Alabama?

Then, a dealer in Atlanta hears about the Alabama offer, and offers $1.5 million to the same QB prospect to appear for their Atlanta/Athens dealerships if the player commits to UGA instead of Alabama?

All of a sudden there is a bidding war among car dealerships to get a particular player, and the competitive balance is going to go to the highest bidders....

The outcome, as in your example, will be in favor of exactly the same teams that get the highest-rated recruits today.

And, there are already bidding wars: There are bidding wars driving up the salaries of coaches -- not only head coaches, but also coordinators, the best recruiters, etc., etc., etc. Oklahoma's new defensive coordinator has moved from one P5 program to another to another in the last three seasons, and received a huge raise for each move. His 2019 salary will be $1.4 million. There is no logical reason why bidding wars for coaches would be a-ok but bidding wars for players would not be. The coaches are paid to win games, but they can't win any games at all without the players.
03-15-2019 02:01 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #57
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-14-2019 10:50 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 03:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 11:02 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 07:58 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 04:22 AM)solohawks Wrote:  College Athletes should be able to profit of their image, status, and ability. Everyone else already does.

If Bubbas Buicks in Alabama wants to pay the Alabama offensive line to come sign autographs and drum up business, they should be able to accept the offer. You don't have to pay them, but preventing them from making money is wrong


The athletes are already paid through scholarships. They are not employees, nor they are professional players. They are there for an education because they are not 100% guarantee to be a pro. They are there for an education. If they want to make money? Then they should skip college and flip burgers for a living. There are other kids who would take their place who do not care about the money.

An employer doesnt prevent someone from making money off their own image. Again, you dont have yo pay them but you cannot punish them either

Plenty of employers dont want employees who moonlight elsewhere and policies against it. Its not illegal. If you want to work "X" company---then you only work for "X" company.

Another issue with name and likeness is that the name and likeness is probably worthless without the university stage. Additionally, name and likeness revenue for the efforts of the entire team will accrue to just a few members. The QB--a running back--perhaps a receiver or linebacker. I doubt the name and likeness money for a offensive lineman is significant. Id prefer for the "name and likeness" revenue to be pooled and distributed to the players equally. The star QB aint crap if the OL fails to block.

It might be easier if the NCAA operated as a clearing house for all those rights deals---that way it would be easier for organizations like EA Games to easily assemble the rights package needed to make NCAA sports games. The rights could be equally distributed across all the players in FBS or divided up to players on an individual conference or school basis.

Making money off your likeness isnt moonlighting. Most names and likenesses are worthless without the university endorsement. Therefore the schools should allow it and take their cut


Well, schools are selling shirts with the likeness of a kids name when they make a splash in the NFL. Those players do get compensated because the schools making money off of them. NDSU's jersey and shirts that show Wentz's name are selling at NDSU. Big Ben's is being sold at Miami Ohio. Usually these players just let the money be spent to help other players.
03-15-2019 01:29 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #58
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-14-2019 06:29 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 03:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Another issue with name and likeness is that the name and likeness is probably worthless without the university stage. Additionally, name and likeness revenue for the efforts of the entire team will accrue to just a few members. The QB--a running back--perhaps a receiver or linebacker. I doubt the name and likeness money for a offensive lineman is significant. Id prefer for the "name and likeness" revenue to be pooled and distributed to the players equally. The star QB aint crap if the OL fails to block.

That's like saying that Tim Cook isn't worth anything without the efforts of everyone at Apple, therefore all of his salary, bonuses, and stock must be divided equally among every Apple employee and, for that matter, all of Apple's revenue must be pooled and distributed to the employees equally. Karl Marx would have loved that argument.

Didnt realize Apple was an amateur hobby workshop. Amateur athletics isnt supposed to work like the pro's. Thats kinda the point. Id like to figure out a way for the players to get the equivalent of a nice college part time job so they at least have some decent pocket change to go out on a date or something with. You can play around with the arrangements. Maybe the player shooting the commercial gets 20% of the money to himself and the rest goes into a fund for the team, conference, or NCAA (however the leagues decide to do it). The point is to keep it generally amateur and to allow these outside payments to reflect the team nature of the game.

Bottom line---I dont like the idea at all. It essentially just makes it legal to do EXACTLY what SMU got the death penalty for. Thats how far away from the where we started this rule would take us. If your going to do this--just pay the payers. At least then the schools and conferences can have moderating influence. Whats being proposed is the Wild West.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2019 02:13 PM by Attackcoog.)
03-15-2019 02:06 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #59
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-15-2019 02:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 06:29 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 03:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Another issue with name and likeness is that the name and likeness is probably worthless without the university stage. Additionally, name and likeness revenue for the efforts of the entire team will accrue to just a few members. The QB--a running back--perhaps a receiver or linebacker. I doubt the name and likeness money for a offensive lineman is significant. Id prefer for the "name and likeness" revenue to be pooled and distributed to the players equally. The star QB aint crap if the OL fails to block.

That's like saying that Tim Cook isn't worth anything without the efforts of everyone at Apple, therefore all of his salary, bonuses, and stock must be divided equally among every Apple employee and, for that matter, all of Apple's revenue must be pooled and distributed to the employees equally. Karl Marx would have loved that argument.

Didnt realize Apple was an amateur hobby workshop. Amateur athletics isnt supposed to work like the pro's. Thats kinda the point. Id like to figure out a way for the players to get the equivalent of a nice college part time job so they at least have some decent pocket change to go out on a date or something with. You can play around with the arrangements. Maybe the player shooting the commercial gets 20% of the money to himself and the rest goes into a fund for the team, conference, or NCAA (however the leagues decide to do it). The point is to keep it generally amateur and to allow these outside payments to reflect the team nature of the game.

Bottom line---I dont like the idea at all. It essentially just makes it legal to do EXACTLY what SMU got the death penalty for. Thats how far away from the where we started this rule would take us. If your going to do this--just pay the payers. At least then the schools and conferences can have moderating influence. Whats being proposed is the Wild West.

What's being proposed is capitalism.

Also, as currently proposed, the only "penalty" for clinging to NCAA-style shamateurism is losing tax-exempt status. Any school that wants to give up tax-exempt status for its athletic department can make that choice.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2019 02:32 PM by Wedge.)
03-15-2019 02:27 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #60
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-15-2019 02:27 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(03-15-2019 02:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 06:29 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(03-14-2019 03:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Another issue with name and likeness is that the name and likeness is probably worthless without the university stage. Additionally, name and likeness revenue for the efforts of the entire team will accrue to just a few members. The QB--a running back--perhaps a receiver or linebacker. I doubt the name and likeness money for a offensive lineman is significant. Id prefer for the "name and likeness" revenue to be pooled and distributed to the players equally. The star QB aint crap if the OL fails to block.

That's like saying that Tim Cook isn't worth anything without the efforts of everyone at Apple, therefore all of his salary, bonuses, and stock must be divided equally among every Apple employee and, for that matter, all of Apple's revenue must be pooled and distributed to the employees equally. Karl Marx would have loved that argument.

Didnt realize Apple was an amateur hobby workshop. Amateur athletics isnt supposed to work like the pro's. Thats kinda the point. Id like to figure out a way for the players to get the equivalent of a nice college part time job so they at least have some decent pocket change to go out on a date or something with. You can play around with the arrangements. Maybe the player shooting the commercial gets 20% of the money to himself and the rest goes into a fund for the team, conference, or NCAA (however the leagues decide to do it). The point is to keep it generally amateur and to allow these outside payments to reflect the team nature of the game.

Bottom line---I dont like the idea at all. It essentially just makes it legal to do EXACTLY what SMU got the death penalty for. Thats how far away from the where we started this rule would take us. If your going to do this--just pay the payers. At least then the schools and conferences can have moderating influence. Whats being proposed is the Wild West.

What's being proposed is capitalism.

Also, as currently proposed, the only "penalty" for clinging to NCAA-style shamateurism is losing tax-exempt status. Any school that wants to give up tax-exempt status for its athletic department can make that choice.

And I love capitalism. Its the best economic system in the world. However, what is so difficult to grasp about the fact that I'd prefer college athletics to stay as close to amateurism as possible? Its a simple concept that has worked for the entire history of college football. Its the reason college sports is popular and minor-league pro sports are not. If the players want to be paid--there are new pro football leagues (as in professional leagues driven entirely by the pursuit of profit) that are sprouting up that will be happy to pay them if they are good enough. Nobody is forcing the players to play college football. The players can play college ball, or not play college ball--or play pro ball. That said---Im not unsympathetic to the plight of college football and basketball players. Its a time consuming endeavor and the rules make it difficult or impossible to have a part time job. They should not be any more cash poor than the typical college student who can at least earn some spending money at a part time job. I dont have the answers--I just was suggesting one possible solution that would help preserve the current character of the game.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2019 03:13 PM by Attackcoog.)
03-15-2019 03:06 PM
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