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New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-12-2019 05:53 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(03-11-2019 08:24 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(03-11-2019 07:00 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(03-11-2019 06:50 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  “If a kid is at a school on a music scholarship, you can go get gigs”

But that person is not an amateur, by definition. Why are we trying to redefine amateur athletics? You want to be on a Wheaties Box then go pro.

They're still amateur athletes; they're still not getting paid to play their particular sport by the NCAA or their school. This prevents the NCAA and any amateur-sports organization from not allowing an athlete to benefit from their name, image and likeness — all of which are theirs in the first place, not the school's and not the NCAA's.

Let's be honest — the reason some of us are excited about this is that it opens the door for NCAA Football '20.

There’s a handful of NCAA athletes whose name, image or likeness are in any kind of demand. You could expand that handful if you include local businesses that would put them on a commercial or name a sandwich after them. There’s a lot more that would be in theposition to receive money to simply sign with a certain school and give no economic benefit to the organizations paying them. You might as well start the SEC Super PAC which will publish your picture in thier annual newsletter and give you 5 figures. Full page article gets you 6 figures. There’s only one thing they’ll be getting paid for, playing sports and that makes them non-amateurs. If you want to promote free market then start making professional sports foot the bill for their own player development instead of perverting what is meant to be actual amateur athletics.

Why is college football "meant to be actual amateur athletics"? Star college football players have been paid for 150 years. They were being paid long before professional football began. Now basketball players are being paid as well.

We often speak of amateur athletics as some sort of ideal - a pure form of sport. Rubbish. The concept of amateurism is a byproduct of the modern Olympic movement - a movement that was meant to be elitist from its very beginning. By limiting participation to those who could afford to compete without having to worry about making a living, European nobility could entertain themselves without having to rub shoulders with commoners and riff-raff.

Amateurism in college athletics is mandated by our tax code. This bill is an attempt to lessen that mandate without removing it entirely. It's a start.

Correction, it's mandated by our tax code to be a 501c3 organization. There are plenty of other parts of code section 501 which would allow an organization to be tax exempt. The NFL for example is tax exempt as are political action committees but if you wrote a check to one of these you would not be able to take a charitable deduction on your tax returns. The congressman wants to change the definition of "amateur athletics" which in our tax code stands alongside organizations for feeding the poor, education and religion so yes I believe some ideal is implied. If they don't like this ideal then let the organization change their model and no longer receive tax deductible payments from donors. A vast majority of Div 1 scholarship athletes are receiving nothing more than a "free" education and don't feel exploited. The reason football and basketball players do is because they see all the revenue coming to the schools for those sports. Right? These are also the sports lacking any sort of professional development league in the US. I'm not going to watch "B" league football or basketball but I don't watch the NFL or NBA either. I'll continue to watch college athletics regardless if the blue chips are playing or not. If we want to talk about free markets then we should be attacking the NFL and NBA for not allowing kids out of high school and the NCAA for not maintaining their commitment to amateur athletics. Start laying out harsh penalties for paying players and violating rules or drop it and go semipro. The NCAA wants it's cake and eat it too. I don't want any part of professional sports as a fan.
03-12-2019 07:12 AM
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UCbball21 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
Yup, passing this bill essentially turns the NCAA into the NFL-lite since it will give the Alabama's and Ohio State's of the world an even larger advantage over smaller schools in recruiting because now booster's won't even have to hide the influx of money to prospective recruits. I can't say that it isn't fair to the players though. It's an especially tough pill to swallow if you are a fan of a mid-major team.

How long before we see handlers whore HS recruits out on a GoFundMe page to the highest bidder? It will be ridiculous...
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2019 07:19 AM by UCbball21.)
03-12-2019 07:19 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #23
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-12-2019 07:19 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  How long before we see handlers whore HS recruits out on a GoFundMe page to the highest bidder? It will be ridiculous...

Why is this a problem? In every other walk of life in the free market, this is essentially what occurs.

It’s instructive to see that one of the few issues that Republicans and Democrats might actually agree on is that NCAA regulations are full of s**t. It continues to boggle my mind why so many college sports fans are so bothered by the shattering of some illusion of amateurism that has *never* existed because that money was always being paid under the table. Bring those payments out into the light above board and let kids freely cash in on *their* talent that 99.99999% of us could never have.
03-12-2019 07:54 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #24
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
The problem is the NCAA, universities, TV networks, and everybody else is making money off their likeness. You want it to be pure amateurism? Fine, stop selling jerseys with their numbers on them, stop selling programs with their picture, take all the events off TV, cut the price of tickets, no more apparel contracts so Zion has to wear Nikes, etc.

You people claiming major college athletics are amateur are out of your mind.
03-12-2019 07:56 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #25
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-12-2019 07:56 AM)esayem Wrote:  The problem is the NCAA, universities, TV networks, and everybody else is making money off their likeness. You want it to be pure amateurism? Fine, stop selling jerseys with their numbers on them, stop selling programs with their picture, take all the events off TV, cut the price of tickets, no more apparel contracts so Zion has to wear Nikes, etc.

You people claiming major college athletics are amateur are out of your mind.

Exactly. This entire board is related to conference realignment where the primary purpose is to find conference combinations that maximize revenue. None of that exists without the players. If people are worried about Alabama car dealerships and other boosters handing out big checks for endorsements or autograph sessions, then my answer is to push your own school to step up its booster game. It’s *today’s* system that’s a corrupt and hypocritical farce.

Just do a Google search of “Jalen Hurts autograph” and you can see a bunch of stores selling his own autograph that he can’t sell himself under NCAA rules. That’s absolutely ridiculous and pretty much anyone that isn’t blinded by the “amateur sports” propaganda spouted out by the NCAA and its members recognizes it.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2019 08:07 AM by Frank the Tank.)
03-12-2019 08:05 AM
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UCbball21 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-12-2019 07:54 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(03-12-2019 07:19 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  How long before we see handlers whore HS recruits out on a GoFundMe page to the highest bidder? It will be ridiculous...

Why is this a problem? In every other walk of life in the free market, this is essentially what occurs.

It’s instructive to see that one of the few issues that Republicans and Democrats might actually agree on is that NCAA regulations are full of s**t. It continues to boggle my mind why so many college sports fans are so bothered by the shattering of some illusion of amateurism that has *never* existed because that money was always being paid under the table. Bring those payments out into the light above board and let kids freely cash in on *their* talent that 99.99999% of us could never have.

I agreed that it is fairer to the players.

(03-12-2019 07:19 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  I can't say that it isn't fair to the players though.

Just because it's the right thing to do doesn't mean that the repercussions won't be ridiculous.
03-12-2019 08:19 AM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-12-2019 07:56 AM)esayem Wrote:  The problem is the NCAA, universities, TV networks, and everybody else is making money off their likeness. You want it to be pure amateurism? Fine, stop selling jerseys with their numbers on them, stop selling programs with their picture, take all the events off TV, cut the price of tickets, no more apparel contracts so Zion has to wear Nikes, etc.

You people claiming major college athletics are amateur are out of your mind.

That's not what amateur means. Are the players getting paid? If no then it's amateur, if yes then it's not. Regardless of how much money is produced around them. Their likenesses change every 4 years and the money and fans are still there.

I agree that the upper echelon is not amateur. Money has corrupted many of these institutions and they refuse to play by rules. So we're just going to change the rules to fit the actions? If it's not amateur then it's professional and should play by those rules.

You guys want your cake and eat it too. When schools are setting up fake classes, hiring prostitutes, covering up rapes and child molestation I think we can all agree there's a problem. Most of these are public institutions as well and this legislation will give a tax break not just on the income produced by those athletic departments but to the people donating money to support them as if it's a charity. We need to commit to playing by the rules of amateurism and enact stiff penalties for breaking the rules and allow anyone who doesn't want to play college sports the right to play professionally out of high school. Or give up the fraud and completely separate the athletics from the educational institutions for those that don't want to make the commitment.
03-12-2019 08:31 AM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #28
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
I assume this is going on anyway, so it may as well be above board.

At the very least we might hopefully get an NCAA video game out of this.
03-12-2019 08:58 AM
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Chappy Offline
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Post: #29
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-12-2019 07:19 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  Yup, passing this bill essentially turns the NCAA into the NFL-lite since it will give the Alabama's and Ohio State's of the world an even larger advantage over smaller schools in recruiting because now booster's won't even have to hide the influx of money to prospective recruits. I can't say that it isn't fair to the players though. It's an especially tough pill to swallow if you are a fan of a mid-major team.

How long before we see handlers whore HS recruits out on a GoFundMe page to the highest bidder? It will be ridiculous...

The schools with the most fans and boosters with the deepest pockets already get the best players. Why not reward the players with what the market determines they are worth?
03-12-2019 09:18 AM
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Post: #30
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-11-2019 05:14 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  So pretty much unlimited money from boosters?

That's the problem. Open cheating.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2019 09:25 AM by bullet.)
03-12-2019 09:25 AM
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Post: #31
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-11-2019 07:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-11-2019 06:50 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  “If a kid is at a school on a music scholarship, you can go get gigs”

But that person is not an amateur, by definition. Why are we trying to redefine amateur athletics? You want to be on a Wheaties Box then go pro.

Its the olympic model. Unfortunately, this is going to end up being much more like all the Russian ice skaters, hockey players, and swimmers who are "in the Army". The issue is there will be no way to measure if the compensation for name and likeness is in anyway tethered to the real life economic value of said name use in advertising (or video games or whatever). I can see this simply morphing into an easy way to legalize under the table bags of cash. For many of the top kids---recruiting will be about the fan base with the best big donors---coaches and facilities arent going to matter nearly as much for many.

The only way it works is if there is a pool. Otherwise it is just like the NCAA allowing the North Carolina blueprint for giving players credit without going to classes.
03-12-2019 09:27 AM
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RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-12-2019 02:17 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(03-11-2019 04:58 PM)Wedge Wrote:  This would be a big (and good) change, if it ever becomes law.

https://www.si.com/college-football/2019...mpic-model
Quote:Rep. Mark Walker (R., N.C.) will introduce a bill Thursday—likely through the Ways and Means committee—that would amend the definition of a qualified amateur sports organization in the U.S. tax code. In the new definition, a body seeking to be defined as a qualified amateur sports organization would be banned from “prohibiting or substantially restricting the use of an athlete’s name, image and likeness.”

In other words, if the NCAA wanted to remain tax-exempt, the schools that run it couldn’t keep a rule on the books banning athletes from making money off their names. If an athlete wants to sign autographs for cash, fine. If a company wants to hire that athlete to pitch its products, swell. Walker has been examining this issue for the past 18 months, and he sees it as a free-market issue and a basic rights issue. “It’s a travesty and an injustice that the one segment of our society that can’t access the free market like every other person in America is the student athlete,” Walker says. He’d like to see athletes treated like college students who excel at any other discipline. “If a kid is at a school on a music scholarship, you can go get gigs,” he says. “You can play in an orchestra, whatever you want to do without it having any kind of impact. And you’re doing it based on your talent, image and likeness.”
Quote:The NCAA should worry, because Walker isn’t alone. He says he has met with House Democrats such as Bobby Scott (Virginia), Cedric Richmond (Louisiana) and Hakeem Jeffries (New York) about this bill, and Walker expects bipartisan support. “When we get ready to drop this thing on Thursday, we’re going to have overwhelming support,” Walker says. “It isn’t just going to be a Republican thing.”

He also wants to make one thing clear. He is not suggesting schools pay players. He is merely proposing a removal of the barriers that keep others from paying players.

However, I’m sure Congress has bigger problems to worry about than this... 05-stirthepot

What would that be? They don't pass budgets anymore.04-cheers
03-12-2019 09:28 AM
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Post: #33
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-12-2019 07:54 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(03-12-2019 07:19 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  How long before we see handlers whore HS recruits out on a GoFundMe page to the highest bidder? It will be ridiculous...

Why is this a problem? In every other walk of life in the free market, this is essentially what occurs.

It’s instructive to see that one of the few issues that Republicans and Democrats might actually agree on is that NCAA regulations are full of s**t. It continues to boggle my mind why so many college sports fans are so bothered by the shattering of some illusion of amateurism that has *never* existed because that money was always being paid under the table. Bring those payments out into the light above board and let kids freely cash in on *their* talent that 99.99999% of us could never have.

Not everyone is paid. And its mainly in football and men's basketball.

I'm not interested in a school fielding a truly professional team. I want there to be some connection to the university even if its athletes taking easy classes (and not all football and basketball players do). I would see Earl Campbell on campus periodically. I saw and exchanged his with Johnny Lam Jones (later NY Jets) frequently. My wife had players in her classes and would ride with them on the bus. Once they get fully paid, then the whole school bit and maintaining progress towards graduation become pretty much irrelevant.

The athletes should have the right to their own likeness for licensing and advertising (but not for past game films), but I don't know how you keep that from being abused even more than the rules now.

If you pay the football and basketball players, the sports with the true student-athletes suffer. That is the biggest issue with all of this. And most schools are already losing money on football, even a few in the P5.
03-12-2019 09:41 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #34
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-12-2019 09:18 AM)Chappy Wrote:  The schools with the most fans and boosters with the deepest pockets already get the best players.

Right. Zion Williamson isn't playing ball at UNC-Wilmington or North Carolina A&T or even at Wake Forest. Letting him take money above board from Nike or whomever wouldn't change that.
03-12-2019 09:55 AM
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Post: #35
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-12-2019 09:55 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(03-12-2019 09:18 AM)Chappy Wrote:  The schools with the most fans and boosters with the deepest pockets already get the best players.

Right. Zion Williamson isn't playing ball at UNC-Wilmington or North Carolina A&T or even at Wake Forest. Letting him take money above board from Nike or whomever wouldn't change that.

He was really too good for Duke. Let him go pro, earn all the money he wants. End the one and done for basketball and the three year rule for football.
03-12-2019 10:22 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #36
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-12-2019 08:31 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(03-12-2019 07:56 AM)esayem Wrote:  The problem is the NCAA, universities, TV networks, and everybody else is making money off their likeness. You want it to be pure amateurism? Fine, stop selling jerseys with their numbers on them, stop selling programs with their picture, take all the events off TV, cut the price of tickets, no more apparel contracts so Zion has to wear Nikes, etc.

You people claiming major college athletics are amateur are out of your mind.

That's not what amateur means. Are the players getting paid? If no then it's amateur, if yes then it's not. Regardless of how much money is produced around them. Their likenesses change every 4 years and the money and fans are still there.


Oh, but that's the argument, is it not? The players are being paid by their scholarship. Is a degree from Troy (no offense) the same as a degree from Duke?

(03-12-2019 08:31 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  I agree that the upper echelon is not amateur. Money has corrupted many of these institutions and they refuse to play by rules. So we're just going to change the rules to fit the actions? If it's not amateur then it's professional and should play by those rules.

None of it is amateur if that kind of money is being made. You want amateur, go watch some YMCA ball.

(03-12-2019 08:31 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  You guys want your cake and eat it too. When schools are setting up fake classes, hiring prostitutes, covering up rapes and child molestation I think we can all agree there's a problem. Most of these are public institutions as well and this legislation will give a tax break not just on the income produced by those athletic departments but to the people donating money to support them as if it's a charity. We need to commit to playing by the rules of amateurism and enact stiff penalties for breaking the rules and allow anyone who doesn't want to play college sports the right to play professionally out of high school. Or give up the fraud and completely separate the athletics from the educational institutions for those that don't want to make the commitment.

Um, what? You do realize that players were taking money for various reasons well before the 50's? Yes, the rules need to change.

Athletes don't have time for part-time jobs anymore because they have no free time. They are too busy working for the school, who in turn sell their jersey so the school and Nike turn a profit.
03-12-2019 11:40 AM
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Post: #37
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-12-2019 09:28 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-12-2019 02:17 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(03-11-2019 04:58 PM)Wedge Wrote:  This would be a big (and good) change, if it ever becomes law.

https://www.si.com/college-football/2019...mpic-model
Quote:Rep. Mark Walker (R., N.C.) will introduce a bill Thursday—likely through the Ways and Means committee—that would amend the definition of a qualified amateur sports organization in the U.S. tax code. In the new definition, a body seeking to be defined as a qualified amateur sports organization would be banned from “prohibiting or substantially restricting the use of an athlete’s name, image and likeness.”

In other words, if the NCAA wanted to remain tax-exempt, the schools that run it couldn’t keep a rule on the books banning athletes from making money off their names. If an athlete wants to sign autographs for cash, fine. If a company wants to hire that athlete to pitch its products, swell. Walker has been examining this issue for the past 18 months, and he sees it as a free-market issue and a basic rights issue. “It’s a travesty and an injustice that the one segment of our society that can’t access the free market like every other person in America is the student athlete,” Walker says. He’d like to see athletes treated like college students who excel at any other discipline. “If a kid is at a school on a music scholarship, you can go get gigs,” he says. “You can play in an orchestra, whatever you want to do without it having any kind of impact. And you’re doing it based on your talent, image and likeness.”
Quote:The NCAA should worry, because Walker isn’t alone. He says he has met with House Democrats such as Bobby Scott (Virginia), Cedric Richmond (Louisiana) and Hakeem Jeffries (New York) about this bill, and Walker expects bipartisan support. “When we get ready to drop this thing on Thursday, we’re going to have overwhelming support,” Walker says. “It isn’t just going to be a Republican thing.”

He also wants to make one thing clear. He is not suggesting schools pay players. He is merely proposing a removal of the barriers that keep others from paying players.

However, I’m sure Congress has bigger problems to worry about than this... 05-stirthepot

What would that be? They don't pass budgets anymore.04-cheers

True, although my post was really intended for 10thMountain. I’ll let 10th figure out what I’m referencing. 03-wink
03-13-2019 03:49 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #38
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
(03-12-2019 07:54 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(03-12-2019 07:19 AM)UCbball21 Wrote:  How long before we see handlers whore HS recruits out on a GoFundMe page to the highest bidder? It will be ridiculous...

Why is this a problem? In every other walk of life in the free market, this is essentially what occurs.

It’s instructive to see that one of the few issues that Republicans and Democrats might actually agree on is that NCAA regulations are full of s**t. It continues to boggle my mind why so many college sports fans are so bothered by the shattering of some illusion of amateurism that has *never* existed because that money was always being paid under the table. Bring those payments out into the light above board and let kids freely cash in on *their* talent that 99.99999% of us could never have.

Wouldn't the mere fact you are seeing such objections indicate there is a significant difference between the basic natures of college and pro sports? Yes, college sports is probably no longer a purely amateur endeavor---but it is miles from the free market bidding war we see in the NFL. When was the last time you saw contractual hold outs or player contract negotiations taking up huge portions of the college sports ink? The reality is college sports is still largely an adjunct to institutions who's primary business is education. Despite the changes---its still basically student athletes playing for their school of choice.

If I remember correctly, one of the reasons the "Olympic model" for amatuerism basically evolved was to level the playing field somewhat for the massive advantage the communist nations had from straight up paying their national athletes to be "in the army" when all these athletes were really doing is training for their olympic events like professionals.

There is really good chance that all this law will do is legalize the whole sale buying and selling of athletes by alumni and boosters. I dont think there is any way to stop this from happeneing---but I dont think its a good thing for the sport. Here's an eerie thought. This proposed law---basically---is going to legalize what SMU got the death penalty for.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2019 08:09 PM by Attackcoog.)
03-13-2019 06:41 PM
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Post: #39
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
I've been against schools paying players as Universities aren't in the business of running professional sports league and the vast majority of D1 athletic programs operate in the red. They stay afloat from student subsidies. To pay players these schools would further have to raise the fees they charge students. That being said I have no problem with players being paid for their likeness. If the local car dealership is willing to pay player x $5k for a radio advertisement for his business, I see no problem with it.
03-13-2019 07:03 PM
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Post: #40
RE: New bill in congress would allow NCAA athletes to make $ from their name and image
My general thoughts about this bill and the Alston ruling is that we are going to start seeing an even greater divide within the 65 member P5. The elite programs are going to be able to offer bigger financial incentives and the slushy booster money is going to be better at the higher profile schools.

At this point I think the 2 primary revenue sports, men's basketball and football, need to be split from the universities they represent and structured as 501c3 corporations. Calling these kids student athletes is a joke. Treat them like minor league athletes and include tuition as part of their compensation package. Also, having them play regular season games against schools that can't financially keep that pace. 1 preseason game against a non-P5, 12 regular season P5 games.
03-13-2019 07:59 PM
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